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Old 02-12-2009, 12:09 PM   #1081
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substitution for carbalose flour

Kevin,
I loved your simple white bread number 4, but I had to toast it to get rid of the weird taste of the carbalose flour. I had a mixture already of Jena Marie's bread flour that I had made up; and I substituted it in your recipe for the carbalose. It might have a few more carbs overall, but I went for it, having used it in the past. It did reduce the off-taste considerably and made a lovely loaf of bread.

Jena Marie's Bread Flour:
120 grams (4 1/4 oz) Vital Wheat Gluten
110 grams (4 oz) Resistant Starch
70 grams (2 1/2 oz) gluten flour (or bread flour)
50 grams (1 3/4 oz) Wheat Protein Isolate
30 grams (1 oz) Oat Fiber
30 grams (1 oz) Oat Flour

Serving information per cup: 274 Calories; 1g Fat (3.5% calories from fat); 26g Protein; 54g Carbohydrate; 22g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 15mg Sodium. Exchanges: 1 Grain(Starch). Net carbs, 32 per cup, 8 per 1/4 cup

for 16 slices, it adds 1.5 grams more carbs per slice. I am going to tweak this flour by replacing the gluten flour and some of the oat flour with wheat protein isolate 5000 to see what I can come up with to lower the carb count. I will then combine the ingredients that are the same as are already in your bread recipe (wheat protein isolate, resistant starch, etc.) to simplify. Thank for inspiring me to make bread again! I love your recipes. Diana
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:43 PM   #1082
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I am glad that is working for you. I personally don't have a problem with the taste of carbalose, especially since starting to use my flour mix in my bread and buns. I have tried several other bread recipes but in the end the texture was never right for me. For now I have several recipes that suit my overall bread needs without problems so I am just sticking to those.
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:02 AM   #1083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dianafoot View Post
Kevin,
I loved your simple white bread number 4, but I had to toast it to get rid of the weird taste of the carbalose flour. I had a mixture already of Jena Marie's bread flour that I had made up; and I substituted it in your recipe for the carbalose. It might have a few more carbs overall, but I went for it, having used it in the past. It did reduce the off-taste considerably and made a lovely loaf of bread.

Jena Marie's Bread Flour:
120 grams (4 1/4 oz) Vital Wheat Gluten
110 grams (4 oz) Resistant Starch
70 grams (2 1/2 oz) gluten flour (or bread flour)
50 grams (1 3/4 oz) Wheat Protein Isolate
30 grams (1 oz) Oat Fiber
30 grams (1 oz) Oat Flour

Serving information per cup: 274 Calories; 1g Fat (3.5% calories from fat); 26g Protein; 54g Carbohydrate; 22g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 15mg Sodium. Exchanges: 1 Grain(Starch). Net carbs, 32 per cup, 8 per 1/4 cup

for 16 slices, it adds 1.5 grams more carbs per slice. I am going to tweak this flour by replacing the gluten flour and some of the oat flour with wheat protein isolate 5000 to see what I can come up with to lower the carb count. I will then combine the ingredients that are the same as are already in your bread recipe (wheat protein isolate, resistant starch, etc.) to simplify. Thank for inspiring me to make bread again! I love your recipes. Diana
Diana, Please post when you try the 5000?....Thanks
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #1084
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AMAZING Thread

So, my DH and I started LCing (again) about three weeks ago. It took me about a week to go thru this entire thread--but SOOOOO glad I did. Waiting for my WPI 8000 and 5000 to come in the mail--then it will be baking, baking, baking for me.

If it is any help for anyone who has tried to read thru this entire thread, I just opened a page in Word and copied and pasted the various bread recipes, and comments from various posters that I thought would help me. It is only a four-page document, and I'm assuming it will be a bit quicker to read thru when I start baking.

All I have left to say, which has been said several times: KEVIN IS AMAZING, and all of the other posters are very helpful and nice, as well. I cannot thank all of you enough for making LCing so enjoyable.

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Old 03-21-2009, 08:27 PM   #1085
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thank you pjsam.

you may also want to look over these also.

the buns from the pita experiment are my favorite.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...xperiment.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...flour-mix.html

Last edited by Kevinpa; 03-21-2009 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:28 AM   #1086
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haha--way ahead of you, there Kevin--I should have said I've been reading MOST of your recipe threads--not just the Simple Bread Thread--I already have your cake and cookie flour recipes saved as links AND as a MS Word document--along w/pretzel, choc chip cookies (which my husband LOVES, btw)--etc.

But, I will keep reading and keep looking because as I said, you have TRULY made LCing SOOOOOO much more enjoyable for us (as I'm sure you have for many others). Thank you, thank you for all your efforts and your kind sharing. It makes all the difference.
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:34 AM   #1087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsam1156 View Post
haha--way ahead of you, there Kevin--I should have said I've been reading MOST of your recipe threads--not just the Simple Bread Thread--I already have your cake and cookie flour recipes saved as links AND as a MS Word document--along w/pretzel, choc chip cookies (which my husband LOVES, btw)--etc.

[COLOR="Red"]But, I will keep reading and keep looking because as I said, you have TRULY made LCing SOOOOOO much more enjoyable for us (as I'm sure you have for many others). Thank you, thank you for all your efforts and your kind sharing. It makes all the difference.[/COLOR]

I second that and would also like to add my thanks!
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:54 PM   #1088
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Kevin, may I ask where you are geting your Hood Calorie Countdown milk? I can't find it anywhere up here in northern Butler county, mercer or venango counties. They all use to carry it but don't anymore.

Thanks!
Maryjane
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:08 AM   #1089
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MaryJane, they also stoped carrying Hood Calorie Countdown milk around here. At least I can't find it any longer. As far as the bread recipes that I use the most, if you look they all call for water or if they did call for milk I use water now. HTH
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:38 AM   #1090
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Has anyone made croutons out of this bread yet?
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:33 AM   #1091
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All the time linny. I will bake several loaves every so often and cut them all up into cubes and bake them in a 250 to 300 degree oven to dry them out then store in a zip-lock bag. If I need bread crumbs, I will throw a handful of cubes in the mini prep food processer.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:36 AM   #1092
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Kevin, thanks a lot for the reply.....I absolutely LOVE that baby in your profile picture

Gonna go and experiment this weekend if I get my house back in order. I'm hosting Easter dinner and want to make croutons!!!
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:39 AM   #1093
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here you go linny!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinpa View Post
This is about 16 carbs approx 1/2 loaf done at 200 degrees for about 90 minutes.




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Old 04-07-2009, 08:50 AM   #1094
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Oh so perfect!!!!
Thanks again
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Old 10-24-2009, 03:55 PM   #1095
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Kevin, please tell me why the combination of flours in your various bread recipes? What are their characteristics that you are combining them in these proportions? Is the Wheat Resistant Starch solely to lower carbs of the total product or does it have another purpose? Why do you use baking powder? What does it do in a yeast bread? Why eggs? How does Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 differ from Carbalose? Can it be used alone? Is Carbiquik primarily Carbalose plus leavening and fat? If you can answer my questions I would be very grateful. Thanks
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Old 10-24-2009, 04:26 PM   #1096
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Kevin, please tell me why the combination of flours in your various bread recipes? What are their characteristics that you are combining them in these proportions? Is the Wheat Resistant Starch solely to lower carbs of the total product or does it have another purpose? Why do you use baking powder? What does it do in a yeast bread? Why eggs? How does Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 differ from Carbalose? Can it be used alone? Is Carbiquik primarily Carbalose plus leavening and fat? If you can answer my questions I would be very grateful. Thanks
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:23 AM   #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmee View Post
Kevin, please tell me why the combination of flours in your various bread recipes? What are their characteristics that you are combining them in these proportions? Is the Wheat Resistant Starch solely to lower carbs of the total product or does it have another purpose? Why do you use baking powder? What does it do in a yeast bread? Why eggs? How does Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 differ from Carbalose? Can it be used alone? Is Carbiquik primarily Carbalose plus leavening and fat? If you can answer my questions I would be very grateful. Thanks
Emmee, I had to really think about how I was going to answer your questions but after giving it some thought there is really only one way to do that.

Four years ago when I started this journey, I set out to find a way to replace HC bread products without giving up taste and texture. Using single flour subs did not do it for me and after every try i was always left wanting in some way.

Bottom line is this thread although having much useful information in it was the beginning of the my journey and 90% of the recipes in it other than basic recipes that can apply to any yeast dough is obsolete for me.

I rely completely on my flour mix for all of my baking needs. I have done literally thousands of bread experiments taking up many thousands of hours and to be perfectly honest to try and figure out exactly why I did some of the things i did would even take me hours of research.

Here is one of my standard answers though:

Which wheat protein isolate you decide to use depends on what you plan to make with them. Wheat protein isolate 8000 is to strengthen or add chewiness to the things you make. It is very much like vital wheat gluten in it properties and wheat protein isolate 8000 can be used interchangeably. Wheat protein isolate is less carbs than vital wheat gluten but not by a huge amount. On the other hand, wheat protein isolate 5000 is basically used to aid with rising. Under no circumstances do you ever want to sub wheat protein isolate 8000 for wheat protein isolate 5000 or visa versa. You will not obtain the results you are looking for and for the most part be extremely disappointed with the end results. I stock them both and would not be without either of them. But over all I use 1/3 the amount of wheat protein isolate 8000 as I do of wheat protein isolate 5000. The baking mixes that I use for bread making and cakes and cookies have some of each in them.


HTH
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:09 PM   #1098
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:46 PM   #1099
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living at 3200 altitude in canada and baking sigh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazywoman-n-wy View Post
[COLOR=red]You are most welcome!!! Yes, I use #247 . That is the one I have had the best results with.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000]If you happen to not have the CC milk (ar perfer not to use it), I use 1/8 cup cream & the rest water to make sub for water/cc milk. Rather than 1/2 c water & 1/2 c CC milk, I use 1/8 c cream & the rest water to bring to 1 cup. (Acutally for me I have to have about 1/8 c less water for some reason. Has to do with altitude or hummidity, or both.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000]Almost missed your question about the loaves. I get one regular loaf, and either 3 -4 roll or buns, or 1 mini loaf. I've never tried to push it to 2 full loaves.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000]Oh, I also use 2 tsp of instant yeast in this. I have had the best rise results with the intant yeast. I also usually add 1/2 -1 tsp inulin. That may or may not account for a better rise. I don't always even remember to add it tho, so if you don't have it, I wouldn't go buy it just to try this. [/COLOR]



Billie,
Kevin mentioned that you also had issues with low carb at high altitude with th e pita experiment.
So I tried the #4 carbalose with your adjustments for 3400ft.
I am in western Canada,, Calgary Alberta.....
That loaf is in the oven now, it rose to 1/2inch above the glass loaf pan and not much more as I am looking at it through the glass window baking.
I wondered if you had any more suggestions as I am almost 40percent lower than you in altitude.
I did cut back the liquid by 1/8 cup.
There is one other thing , i used sea salt , and I don't know if that affects the rising(thats all I had).
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:00 PM   #1100
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majomor, I'm not really sure what to tell you. How long did you let it rise? Depending on the temp, you may have to let it rise less or more than 1 hour.
As for the sea salt, I usually use sea salt too, so I don't think that is the problem.

I still use the Carbalose #4 recipe, but I put wheat bran & flax meal in it. This actually makes it even harder to get a rise I'm quite sure, but I usually get a good one. (Funny sometimes I get a huge rise, sometimes just a little over the pan like you said.) I have to cut way back on the liquid (even with the extra - wheat bran & flax meal). I usually use the 2 eggs, and only 7 oz cream/water or low carb milk, and sometimes I still have to add extra WPI.

Add just enough "flour" or WPI if needed to keep the dough from being sticky. But don't have it too wet either. I knead about 10 - 15 min.

I've been using the resistant corn starch (Hi-Maize) recently, but I'm not sure if I get any better rise with it. I will however continue to use it I think. If you only have the resistant wheat starch, then don't worry use it.

I tried using Kevin's new flour mix & his "new" recipe, but I didn't get as good a result as with my revised #4 recipe using either the wheat starach or corn starch.

Wish I could be of more help.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:08 PM   #1101
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Yikes, Not-SUgar has been discontinued!

The Netrition site says Not-Sugar has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Is there a good substitute or another source?

Ditto for Calcium Caseinate.

I'm new to LC and and delighted to have found this site, especially Kevin's Gold Mine of recipes. Thank you in advance to Kevin and everybody on this site. I know it will be making my LC journey so much easier.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:32 PM   #1102
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I hate to be a party-pooper, but a few things come to mind here as I watch this particular thread's traffic:
  • it's just as much a violation of copyright to PM these as to post these recipes (it's the disseminating that makes it so), assuming it's a legal agreement you have made about the whole text of your recipe to be published in another's book
  • a list of ingredients is not copyrightable, but the rest of the text is (so you could share that aspect of the recipe if you wish)
  • and didn't you say that the particular recipe under discussion (pizza>) was agreed for a future book but that wasn't happening? I believe you're off the hook, then
  • and finally, the list of ingredients with YOUR OWN WORDS only as the rest of the text is YOUR copyright, not anything that's been (a) altered for publication and (b) as published by someone else -- and it does sound like it's been altered? Or something has been altered? Pretty confusing, firstly a pizza that's not going to be published, then 3 page references to recipes that appear to have been published and altered...


# A recipe's ingredients and the order in which they are listed and used cannot be copyrighted.

# All the remaining elements of a cookbook can be and usually are copyrighted - the wording of the recipe comments, the wording of the recipe method, the general and the section introductions, and the the wording of captions for illustrations as well as the illustrations themselves.

So...if you list the ingredients and then give a revised set of instructions, as in - "follow your bread maker's directions", it would not be considered copywrite infringement.
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:11 AM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianaG View Post
The Netrition site says Not-Sugar has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Is there a good substitute or another source?

Ditto for Calcium Caseinate.

I'm new to LC and and delighted to have found this site, especially Kevin's Gold Mine of recipes. Thank you in advance to Kevin and everybody on this site. I know it will be making my LC journey so much easier.
Adriana, not/starch can be used measure for measure for the not/sugar.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:40 PM   #1104
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:24 PM   #1105
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Hello,

I just spent 3 days reading all the threads on bread and mixes and pitas!

Thanks so much to Kevin and all that spent the time and effort to develop these.

I made two loaves from #1023 and they are GREAT!!

A question...I want to make LC Wheat bread #929, and just to get it right, I add 4 c. of the #3 mix and 7/8 c. of whole wheat flour?

AND, wheat buns #819 I add 4c. of #3 mix and 5/8c. whole wheat flour?

Thanks.....I just had a SANDWICH!!

Last edited by drjlocarb; 09-16-2010 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:32 PM   #1106
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Kevin - you are my hero!!
Thank you for making it possible for us to have bread and hamburger buns. My dear partner LOVES hamburgers and feels robbed if he doesn't get HB buns.
You are such an unselfish human being, allowing us to learn from your hard work and experience.
Again, thanks!!
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:15 PM   #1107
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Hi again! I am so glad that you are still posting on this thread -- I can't tell you how many times I come back and back to get recipes and ideas for baked goods. I've been making cookie variations with your "graham cracker crust" dough that you paired with the cheesecake recipe (btw, the best cheesecake I have ever had!) I pat the cookies thin, include lots of ginger or chocolate, and have great crispy cookies that beat store-bought sugar/white flour ones all to bits. Thanks for the great experiments and advice!
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:53 PM   #1108
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Another Kevin Fan

Jumping on the Kevinpa bandwagon here!

Like many others, I've spent days reading this and other Kevin threads. What an extraordinary person! Obviously, very talented in the kitchen with a keen, creative and methodically scientific mind. But, what I find so endearing is his incredible patience and his amazing collaborative instincts. I mean, how many times can a person graciously answer the same question? Dozens, if you're Kevin! His willingness to share and encourage others, no matter their level of expertise is simply awesome.

I had a cheeseburger tonight, on a Kevin bun, of course. I thank him for that, but I thank him more for restoring just a little of my somewhat bruised and cynical faith in people. You're a great guy, Kevin.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:38 PM   #1109
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Ok, I'm a good cook and a decent baker, but as soon as yeast enters the equation I'm hopeless. I'm trying the white bread 4 recipe, actually a shortened post where Kevin lists 4 cups of mix (this is a pre-corn fiber carbalose mix but I assembled it very carefully not that long ago), eggs sugar salt EVOO yeast. Again I need to stress that I measure very carefully, especially given my history of failures with yeast dough.

This is the post I'm working from.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...l#post10002193

So I assemble the wet ingredients in the bowl of my kitchen aid, then slowly added in the dry while the paddle attachment spun on low. I now have a sticky mess that sticks to the bowl around the entire inner rim of the work bowl. Is this normal? I can't see how it's going to knead when I put the hook in if it's this sticky. Do I add more dry stuff? If so, what?



This stuff always happens to me. Any advice appreciated.

Last edited by Perdita; 10-04-2010 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:53 PM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdita View Post
Ok, I'm a good cook and a decent baker, but as soon as yeast enters the equation I'm hopeless. I'm trying the white bread 4 recipe, actually a shortened post where Kevin lists 4 cups of mix (this is a pre-corn fiber carbalose mix but I assembled it very carefully not that long ago), eggs sugar salt EVOO yeast. Again I need to stress that I measure very carefully, especially given my history of failures with yeast dough.

This is the post I'm working from.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...l#post10002193

So I assemble the wet ingredients in the bowl of my kitchen aid, then slowly added in the dry while the paddle attachment spun on low. I now have a sticky mess that sticks to the bowl around the entire inner rim of the work bowl. Is this normal? I can't see how it's going to knead when I put the hook in if it's this sticky. Do I add more dry stuff? If so, what?



This stuff always happens to me. Any advice appreciated.
That happens to me all the time if I use the amount of liquid called for. Yes, add more dry (mix if you have more mix, otherwise add more WPI 5000) till it loses it's stickiness or enough so you can handle it. You want it to be soft & pliable, and not so sticky that you can't handle it. It will pull away from the sides of the bowl (I usually stop it at this point, and scrape any that remains down, and continue kneading). I've found that a knead of about 10 minutes works well for me.
Hope I found this in time, and you as well. And hope it helps!!!
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