Net carbs/real carbs/ and the new math.

BonnyLass · 08-26-2009, 04:40 PM

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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 13
Blog Entries: 2
Gallery: BonnyLass
Stats: 285/163/135
WOE: low carb/starch blockers when needed
Start Date: 73'low carb 4evr.Never fell for low fat

Net carbs/real carbs/ and the new math.
When I first started on low carb in 73' Dr. Atkins was pretty adamant about sugar alcohols and the fact that we should keep away from them, and if consumed count them as carbs. Flash forward a hundred years and now we have the "Net Carb."For the longest time I avoided the concept but have been having trouble sticking to the plan. I want to eat pancakes once in awhile(2 net carbs when made with Carbquik). I want to eat a meal replacement bar when I'm rushed for time(18carbs-2net carbs). I want to make some of the desserts in the recipe room(dying for a slice of that coconut impossible pie).
A few days ago I consumed about 25 net carbs and I've got to tell you, cravings were back, showed slight gain on the scale and I must say the whole thing left me shaken and confused.Dr. A was still alive when the Advantage line came out so he must have been ok with the Net Carb concept but I have some doubts. I know if you consume a lot of anything it's not good but trust me when I tell you I did not go nuts with these products.One day I had pancakes(2net) lunch I had a pita sandwich(10net) protein bar(2)and late nite snack of a toasted pita with butter and spread(6). Second day was similar, then the cravings hit. The third day all I kept doing was going in and out of the kitchen, not eating anything but wanting everything. Weighed myself and saw the 2lb gain. The old me would have just said"Oh, I probably had too much sodium, it's just water retention." But, I went right back to straight protein and now I am back to the weight I was right after I completed the 5day pouch test(145).
Has anyone experienced this? Has anyone used these products long term with success? Has anyone stayed purple with the addition of these foods(I haven't used Keto sticks in years, too expensive and sometimes too addictive). Any insight would be appreciated.
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BellaHMB · 08-26-2009, 05:25 PM

Hi,

What I noticed was that you ate pancakes, pita, protein bar, pita. Seems like alot of carbs to me if you are working on losing- and the cravings pretty much let you know
that it didn't work for you. I have never been able to lose doing net carbs except when
substracting fiber from real foods like squash or my flax muffins. My feeling is that Dr. A
sold out, but then that's my opinion. There are others who think the new plan from 92 is great, but it never worked for me and 72 plan always did.

Good wishes
Victoria

homestretch · 08-27-2009, 07:04 AM

I never counted net carbs. I just feel like a carb is a carb. You can make some amazing pancakes with just eggs and flax. I have used CarbQuick but I am not really a fan. It seems like I read somewhere along the line that Dr. A sold his company to Atkins Nutritionals and they took things in a direction he did not approve of.

NWLoser · 08-27-2009, 12:48 PM

I agree with Homestretch. I think Dr. A. was not in agreement with this whole net carb products. I have never done net carbs as I think it can get you in trouble with a lot of carb creep. I count a carb as a carb no matter what. I did Atkins in 2003 and used all the products and it didn't teach me eating for life. I gained the weight back and now I eat real foods and know I can eat this way for the rest of my life. JMHO

chantyl03 · 08-27-2009, 12:50 PM

i count net carbs. total carbs - fiber... its tricker with SAs. So i usually count half the SA carbs. (this is my made up formula)

doeskin · 08-27-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chantyl03

i count net carbs. total carbs - fiber... its tricker with SAs.

I agree with this - I count net carbs when it comes to insoluble fiber, but NOT when it comes to sugar alcohols. Those low carb bars usually have quite a bit of SA, and it can cause stalls.

I would also say to choose either the pita or the pancakes, instead of eating both in one day, and see how that goes. Even though the older version of Atkins allows grains early on, if it's not working for you I would definitely lower the servings until it did.

ChristiG · 08-27-2009, 02:39 PM

i don't think that sugar alcohols are equally as deductible as fiber either. I do have some things with small amounts of SA's, but try to limit that to the occassional carb smart ice cream bar or the atkins bars with minimal amounts. Some people can't have them at all. Fiber on the other hand seems like a more legitimate deduction from total carbs. (Excuse my totally arbitrary thought process that i'm about to share) While i believe in the net carb concept (because i haven't had any problems while using it), i still think you can't have too many things with total carbs that high. I love mission's carb balance wrap (18 total, 7 net), but i wouldn't eat more than a couple a week. If i have an atkins bar or the like for breakfast (which have total carbs that are usually at least 15), i would skip the wrap at lunch and opt for lettuce to wrap with. I think net carbs can be forgiving as long as they're not over done. When i've attempted LC in the past, I've made the mistake of getting too wrapped up in what i "can" have and still be LC according to certain standards when in reality i know the point is to eat more wholesome and real foods. I will never be one of the purist people (bless their hearts, not for me), but when i get carried away with the gimmicky LC stuff in every meal I think my results reflect it. I refuse to feel deprived or get burnt out on the same old thing. I try to try new recipes and if i have to in order to force myself to stay on plan, i'll eat something like an LC shocolate bar or whatever substitute for my craving. It's better than giving in. In the beginning you can get away with most anything LC, but in the long run it seems that certain things your body doesn't allow you to get away with anymore. If it's what you need to stay on plan, I say go for it. If your still skeptical, stick to what you know is okay.

BonnyLass · 08-27-2009, 10:34 PM

Thanks everyone. I guess I went a little crazy with the new food.On the day I was referring to, I had about 20 "net" carbs.I just figured out real carb count and it comes in at around 75

Lesson learned.Being in Foodservice I guess I just got too excited with all of the possibilities. Biscuits with 2grams, pizza with 3. I knew it was too good to be true. But, like ChristieG suggest, it's good to have the alternatives around when you really need them, or find the ones that work for you and fit them in where appropriate.
I think I can live without the Carbquik stuff I've made, but it does have a place in my kitchen. Same with the pita. Now that I will be packing a lunch& dinner everyday it will be nice to have an option other than salad.I've been pretty much maintaining my weight for the last ten years without this stuff, I guess I can do it for 50 more.Still want to try that Impossible Coconut pie though.I think I'll wait a week then let you know how it was.Again, thanks to all. And yes,interesting to hear about the Dr. A stuff. I didn't realize he wasn't fully behind the Advantage line(a lot of the stuff was awful and has since been discontinued).Like I said he was so adamant about keeping away from SA's and such. But time passes, technology improves. I guess I had to learn the hard way, and as stated, I am back on track and closer to 135 everyday.
Peace Out,
BL

melsreturn · 09-12-2009, 05:39 AM

It could be the carbs that caused the cravings, BUT could the foods themselves be the trigger? You were really craving them, and allowed yourself to have it. Some foods (regardless of the carb count) can be a trigger that once we start, we can't seem to stop. Just a thought.... however, the 5 day pouch test is a good tool to "decarb" the body... it could be also that just getting yourself broken of the craving for that particular food itself might have been the key. Just a thought....?

08-26-2009, 04:40 PM	#1
BonnyLass Junior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 26 Blog Entries: 2 Gallery: BonnyLass Stats: 285/163/135 WOE: low carb/starch blockers when needed Start Date: 73'low carb 4evr.Never fell for low fat	Net carbs/real carbs/ and the new math. BonnyLass's Avatar Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 13 Blog Entries: 2 Gallery: BonnyLass Stats: 285/163/135 WOE: low carb/starch blockers when needed Start Date: 73'low carb 4evr.Never fell for low fat Net carbs/real carbs/ and the new math. When I first started on low carb in 73' Dr. Atkins was pretty adamant about sugar alcohols and the fact that we should keep away from them, and if consumed count them as carbs. Flash forward a hundred years and now we have the "Net Carb."For the longest time I avoided the concept but have been having trouble sticking to the plan. I want to eat pancakes once in awhile(2 net carbs when made with Carbquik). I want to eat a meal replacement bar when I'm rushed for time(18carbs-2net carbs). I want to make some of the desserts in the recipe room(dying for a slice of that coconut impossible pie). A few days ago I consumed about 25 net carbs and I've got to tell you, cravings were back, showed slight gain on the scale and I must say the whole thing left me shaken and confused.Dr. A was still alive when the Advantage line came out so he must have been ok with the Net Carb concept but I have some doubts. I know if you consume a lot of anything it's not good but trust me when I tell you I did not go nuts with these products.One day I had pancakes(2net) lunch I had a pita sandwich(10net) protein bar(2)and late nite snack of a toasted pita with butter and spread(6). Second day was similar, then the cravings hit. The third day all I kept doing was going in and out of the kitchen, not eating anything but wanting everything. Weighed myself and saw the 2lb gain. The old me would have just said"Oh, I probably had too much sodium, it's just water retention." But, I went right back to straight protein and now I am back to the weight I was right after I completed the 5day pouch test(145). Has anyone experienced this? Has anyone used these products long term with success? Has anyone stayed purple with the addition of these foods(I haven't used Keto sticks in years, too expensive and sometimes too addictive). Any insight would be appreciated. BonnyLass is online now Report Post to Moderators Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message BonnyLass View Public Profile Find More Posts by BonnyLass Add BonnyLass to Your Buddy List View Blog Reply

08-26-2009, 05:25 PM	#2
BellaHMB Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Northern California Coast Posts: 3,565 Gallery: BellaHMB Stats: 210/145/original goal of 150 met 5.27.07 WOE: Maintenance Atkins Start Date: 1-16-07	Hi, What I noticed was that you ate pancakes, pita, protein bar, pita. Seems like alot of carbs to me if you are working on losing- and the cravings pretty much let you know that it didn't work for you. I have never been able to lose doing net carbs except when substracting fiber from real foods like squash or my flax muffins. My feeling is that Dr. A sold out, but then that's my opinion. There are others who think the new plan from 92 is great, but it never worked for me and 72 plan always did. Good wishes Victoria __________________ My Before and After photos: http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho...y=-d378t0&Ux=0

08-27-2009, 02:39 PM	#7
ChristiG Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 342 Gallery: ChristiG Stats: 192/156/150 WOE: low carb Start Date: 5/27/09	i don't think that sugar alcohols are equally as deductible as fiber either. I do have some things with small amounts of SA's, but try to limit that to the occassional carb smart ice cream bar or the atkins bars with minimal amounts. Some people can't have them at all. Fiber on the other hand seems like a more legitimate deduction from total carbs. (Excuse my totally arbitrary thought process that i'm about to share) While i believe in the net carb concept (because i haven't had any problems while using it), i still think you can't have too many things with total carbs that high. I love mission's carb balance wrap (18 total, 7 net), but i wouldn't eat more than a couple a week. If i have an atkins bar or the like for breakfast (which have total carbs that are usually at least 15), i would skip the wrap at lunch and opt for lettuce to wrap with. I think net carbs can be forgiving as long as they're not over done. When i've attempted LC in the past, I've made the mistake of getting too wrapped up in what i "can" have and still be LC according to certain standards when in reality i know the point is to eat more wholesome and real foods. I will never be one of the purist people (bless their hearts, not for me), but when i get carried away with the gimmicky LC stuff in every meal I think my results reflect it. I refuse to feel deprived or get burnt out on the same old thing. I try to try new recipes and if i have to in order to force myself to stay on plan, i'll eat something like an LC shocolate bar or whatever substitute for my craving. It's better than giving in. In the beginning you can get away with most anything LC, but in the long run it seems that certain things your body doesn't allow you to get away with anymore. If it's what you need to stay on plan, I say go for it. If your still skeptical, stick to what you know is okay. __________________ *Christi* Weekly Weigh Ins: 192, 188, 187, 185, 185.5, 184.5, 179.5, 177, 176.5, ?, 175, 173, 170.5, 170, 173, 170.5, 166 I have a hard time deciphering the fine line between boredom and hunger.

08-27-2009, 10:34 PM	#8
BonnyLass Junior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 26 Blog Entries: 2 Gallery: BonnyLass Stats: 285/163/135 WOE: low carb/starch blockers when needed Start Date: 73'low carb 4evr.Never fell for low fat	Thanks everyone. I guess I went a little crazy with the new food.On the day I was referring to, I had about 20 "net" carbs.I just figured out real carb count and it comes in at around 75Lesson learned.Being in Foodservice I guess I just got too excited with all of the possibilities. Biscuits with 2grams, pizza with 3. I knew it was too good to be true. But, like ChristieG suggest, it's good to have the alternatives around when you really need them, or find the ones that work for you and fit them in where appropriate. I think I can live without the Carbquik stuff I've made, but it does have a place in my kitchen. Same with the pita. Now that I will be packing a lunch& dinner everyday it will be nice to have an option other than salad.I've been pretty much maintaining my weight for the last ten years without this stuff, I guess I can do it for 50 more.Still want to try that Impossible Coconut pie though.I think I'll wait a week then let you know how it was.Again, thanks to all. And yes,interesting to hear about the Dr. A stuff. I didn't realize he wasn't fully behind the Advantage line(a lot of the stuff was awful and has since been discontinued).Like I said he was so adamant about keeping away from SA's and such. But time passes, technology improves. I guess I had to learn the hard way, and as stated, I am back on track and closer to 135 everyday. Peace Out, BL

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08-27-2009, 07:04 AM	#3
homestretch MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,179 Gallery: homestretch Stats: 206.5/155 WOE: Low Carb Start Date: 5/26/06	I never counted net carbs. I just feel like a carb is a carb. You can make some amazing pancakes with just eggs and flax. I have used CarbQuick but I am not really a fan. It seems like I read somewhere along the line that Dr. A sold his company to Atkins Nutritionals and they took things in a direction he did not approve of.

08-27-2009, 12:48 PM	#4
NWLoser MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Beautiful NW Posts: 2,015 Gallery: NWLoser Stats: 235/115/115 WOE: LC/Atkins Start Date: 12/06 Final Time!	I agree with Homestretch. I think Dr. A. was not in agreement with this whole net carb products. I have never done net carbs as I think it can get you in trouble with a lot of carb creep. I count a carb as a carb no matter what. I did Atkins in 2003 and used all the products and it didn't teach me eating for life. I gained the weight back and now I eat real foods and know I can eat this way for the rest of my life. JMHO

08-27-2009, 12:50 PM	#5
chantyl03 Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: TX Posts: 8,688 Blog Entries: 27 Gallery: chantyl03 Stats: (originally 250#) 225/180 size 20/10 WOE: LC--atkins Start Date: September 2008	i count net carbs. total carbs - fiber... its tricker with SAs. So i usually count half the SA carbs. (this is my made up formula)

09-12-2009, 05:39 AM	#9
melsreturn Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 170 Gallery: melsreturn Stats: 251/129/130 WOE: Moderate Carbs/Low Calorie Start Date: May 2006	It could be the carbs that caused the cravings, BUT could the foods themselves be the trigger? You were really craving them, and allowed yourself to have it. Some foods (regardless of the carb count) can be a trigger that once we start, we can't seem to stop. Just a thought.... however, the 5 day pouch test is a good tool to "decarb" the body... it could be also that just getting yourself broken of the craving for that particular food itself might have been the key. Just a thought....?