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DressageLover 02-25-2014 02:13 PM

Hungry and insanely frustrated!
 
I don’t know if anyone can help me – I’m feeling beyond help right now.
I’ve been low carbing for over 15 years now. I lost 40 pounds on CAD and kept it off for over a decade. In July of 2012 I decided I was finally willing to “finish the job” and lose the rest. I went to very low carb and dropped another 20 pounds hitting 160. I struggled and struggled to stay there and for the past year have gained and lost the same 8 pounds over and over and over again. It seems like my magic number for calories for a slow and gradual loss is around 1700. That may seem like a lot to many of you, but for me, I can hardly stand it. I am so chronically hungry ALL THE TIME that it makes me want to scream. No matter what I’m eating, whether it’s a low carb diet with some variety (ie vegetables) or a very high fat meat/egg/fat fast, my body craves about 2,000-2,300 calories per day. I have not found the appetite suppression I need to lose more weight. Typically my breakdown is 65-70% fat and very low carb (under 20 grams – sometimes under 10 grams). I have tried to “eat more fat” and I’m just hungrier because overall it’s less food, or I give in and eat enough to feel satisfied and I’m back up at 2,300 calories. Fat bombs make me fat – too many calories and not enough satisfaction. I tried the “flavorless calories” trick of the Shangri-la diet and that didn’t work either. I was still ravenous and the extra calories from the oil resulted in a gain. I’ve tried xenadrine appetite suppressants and they kind of help a little, but make me feel like I’m going to have a heart attack. Not sure my quest for thin thighs can justify a heart attack. I tried JUDD and could not survive the down days.
I’ve been struggling lately to stay at even 165. Ten days ago I had some wine and my weight shot up to about 170. Despite tremendous effort and clean eating, the weight is not coming off. ARGH!! I feel all fat and jiggly and my thighs have expanded and are pushing against the limits of my pants. I’m seriously needing to go to a store and buy some “fat pants” because this is so uncomfortable. I am beyond frustrated. A good healthy, slim, ideal weight for me would be 150. If I could get to 155-160, I think that would be fine. I just don’t know what to do. At this point, I’m drinking about 300 calories of BPC in the morning to shave off breakfast calories and then white knuckling my hunger until noon. My coffee is blended with 2 T of unsalted butter and 1 T of coconut oil. If I had food, I could easily eat 600 calories of eggs, bacon, sausage and still be hungry mid morning.
Menu right now is typically:
B: BPC
L: leftover meat from the evening before
S: hard boiled egg or two
D: meat and maybe a serving a salad with Newman’s Light Italian dressing followed by decaf coffee or tea to “finish” the meal.
I drink mostly water and black coffee.

I track the food/calories and try to keep it to around 1,700, but I am chronically uncomfortably hungry at that level. I can do this for maybe a few days and then I feel like I just HAVE to eat 2,000+ calories for some relief and a feeling of fullness.

Have any of you long-timers conquered a challenge such as this?
And darn it! I REALLY want to be able to drink wine once in a while. :mad:

finallylosing 02-25-2014 02:43 PM

Just my two cents but when I have days like this its the Protein that finally fills me up and satisfies me, not the fat. I have been trying to decrease my protein a bit to see if I could loose a few more pounds but I am not happy on those days and find I'm really hungry. I have been maintaining this weight for about six months now and am happy with it but it's always nice to drop a few more! I just don't think it's worth it to be hungry.
Do you think you are getting enough protein? Could you try to up it a few days and see how you feel?

WintersTale 02-25-2014 02:51 PM

Pardon my ignorance but what is BPC?

Ntombi 02-25-2014 03:03 PM

Honestly, if it's such a struggle, I'd rather make peace with being 10 or so pounds above my ideal weight, so I wasn't spending so much of my energy getting lower. Living with less anxiety and stress and being more relaxed about food and life has to be worth more to quality and quantity of life than being highly stressed and sometimes bouncing into your ideal weight.

JMO

WintersTale 02-25-2014 03:07 PM

Just realized it means "bullet proof coffee"

Trigger828 02-25-2014 03:13 PM

Bulltet Proof Coffee. BPC. when people add oils, cream to coffee.



BOY WHEN I READ your title to this thread I laughed and cried almost at the same time---I feel your frustration. I am the type to eat non stop and never get full. I know that feeling you are having when you want to eat 24/7.

thankfully it is almost over, now I just have 'a day or 2' of wanting to constantly eat cause I am 'flat out starving' and almost nothing can fill me up. as those days are getting more rare, I still have them. You have a bad case of it. I feel for ya!


I want to see what the professionals have to say on this, cause I am not sure what to tell you. it seems like you are kinda trying alot and not sure how to proceed. I am interested in this thread and see what advice comes your way.

you hang in there :)

edited to say Ntombi has good advice. Is 10 lbs worth this to you? truly? maybe it is time to maintain and allow yourself off the hook. This sure seems reasonable to me.

finallylosing 02-25-2014 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16815136)
Honestly, if it's such a struggle, I'd rather make peace with being 10 or so pounds above my ideal weight, so I wasn't spending so much of my energy getting lower. Living with less anxiety and stress and being more relaxed about food and life has to be worth more to quality and quantity of life than being highly stressed and sometimes bouncing into your ideal weight.

JMO

This is what I was trying to say as well! For me obsessing about what I am eating and being hungry is not fun or worth it for the last ten or fifteen pounds. You say it very well.

snowangel9 02-25-2014 04:01 PM

I agree with Ntombi too. At 5' 10" you may have more muscle than you think. If your body is comfortable at 160-70, why stress over it? Have you ever had your lean body mass calculated? That might be eye opening. You may be trying to weigh less than the amount of your lean muscle mass.

peanutte 02-25-2014 04:24 PM

Quote:

Menu right now is typically:
B: BPC
L: leftover meat from the evening before
S: hard boiled egg or two
D: meat and maybe a serving a salad with Newman’s Light Italian dressing followed by decaf coffee or tea to “finish” the meal.
I drink mostly water and black coffee.

How does this even come close to 1700 calories? Am I missing something?

pulchritudinous_j 02-25-2014 04:33 PM

From what I understand, those last few pounds are always the hardest to get rid of.

Did you experience the same kind of ravenous hunger when you LC'ed in the past?

I'm glad that you stopped taking the "appetite-reducing" supplements. IMHO, they're garbage and can pose SERIOUS threats to your health. The FDA does monitor the quality and consistency of MANY things, however supplements are not one of them. To clarify; you never *truly* know what's going into your body.

Are you drinking enough water? I know this sounds obvious, but I've noticed that if I forget my big 'ol water bottle (62 oz :D) when I start a 12 hour clinical shift I end up snacking much more than I otherwise would have.

I also find it interesting that wine made you retain so much water (obviously it couldn't of been fat in such a short amount of time). What kind of wine were you drinking?

wish 02-25-2014 05:03 PM

I am hardly a proffessional but I have done A LOT of reading. I hope you won't feel annoyed with what I am going to tell you but here goes...If I were you I would drop the BPC, it is the "in" thing to drink right now but coffee/caffine can be a problem for a lot of people. It can spike insulin and make you feel hungry, it can also cause stress levels to rise, causing adrenal stress and stressing about your lack of weight loss can make weight loss impossible. Proper functioning adrenals are one of the keys to weight loss success, relax and don't drink things that will cause more stress. Eat real food it is better for you.

I also agree with what others have said, sometimes you have a set point that your body is happy at, you are tall so maybe 170 is where you should be? I am 5' 4" and I would be happy with 150-160, I am of muscular build and I remember looking and feeling great at that weight.

Good luck, life is too short to be in total misery over a few pounds. 50+ lbs and health risks rising is a different story (mine) :sad:

someonelikeyou 02-25-2014 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16815136)
Honestly, if it's such a struggle, I'd rather make peace with being 10 or so pounds above my ideal weight, so I wasn't spending so much of my energy getting lower. Living with less anxiety and stress and being more relaxed about food and life has to be worth more to quality and quantity of life than being highly stressed and sometimes bouncing into your ideal weight.

JMO

I agree with this sentiment.

DressageLover 02-25-2014 07:34 PM

Thank you for your comments everyone.
WintersTale - lovely horse you have there! Perhaps you are familiar with the pressure to not have copious amounts of extra flesh bubbling under tight white show breeches.
I'm definitely still over-fat. I look pretty healthy at 160, but at the weight I'm at today, I look like one of those "before" pictures in the diet ads where the person needed to lose 30 pounds to look good in a bikini. I carry my weight in my butt and thighs and compete in a sport where I sit in a saddle, wearing tight white pants, and the flesh is all squished upwards and spread out. Anyway...I know it seems silly to stress this much over 10 pounds, but it is really the difference - to me - between feeling confident and comfortable in my own skin and not. It's a fine line in my weight range where I look and feel proportional vs. when my thighs expand and pop out to the sides like wings. I also have the issue of my clothes not fitting well right now. :(
To address some of the comments:
finallylosing - I definitely feel better eating more protein. It just seems to take a lot of it, plus fat, to make me feel full. If I eat 8 oz of chicken breast, I need to follow it with some cheese or mayo or some other type of fat. I love to eat those Costco cans of tuna, but I'm horrified at the amount of mayo it takes to make it not dry. It's a good 4 tablespoons - which amounts to a ton of calories. So..tuna with mayo easily can add up to over 600 calories and I don't necessarily feel full after. Why must I have the appetite of a linebacker?!
Peanutte - my portions of meat are large - in an effort to get full - and that is typically where my calories come from. Today I ate dinner at one of those buffet places (free tickets.) I enjoyed a salad and splurged on some ranch dressing and my calories for the day were 1851. About 115 grams protein, 12 grams carbs, 147 grams fat.
pulchritudinous - I had chardonnay. I love to drink wine! I feel like I've shot myself in the foot restricting my diet so much that my body royally freaks out with weight gain when I have wine. There was a point in time I was having a glass of wine a day for a few weeks and was getting away with it - my weight hanging around at 165.
Wish - thanks for your comments about the caffeine. I had actually read something about that a few months ago and wondered if the caffeine was stimulating my appetite. I switched to decaf for a couple of weeks with the hope it would solve my problem but it didn't. Now I drink regular in the morning and decaf in the afternoon.
My big fear is that if I relax and just enjoy low carb food and stop stressing this, I'll gain the weight back.

KampyKool 02-25-2014 09:09 PM

HELP! Seems like we're on the same subject, only I'm just starting out. Please tell me someone has had the same experience and has overcome it … And then pleeeaaase share how you did it.

I was really successful with a LC and exercise plan years ago. Lost 70 lbs in a year and moved from the couch to running half marathons and maintained for over three years. Long story short, four years later after injuries and failed attempts of trying everything again, I am now 75 lbs up.

I think the main problem is menopause, early onset. I have no ‘stick-to-itiveness’, no energy, and I am hungry ALL THE TIME. And the cravings - OMG - all rational thought and self control dissipates until the satisfaction of the crave has been satiated. Changing intake of protein, decaf or high test coffee, extra fat, nothing seems to help. And I am not craving foods I shouldn't have, just more of anything I'm eating. A lot more.

I read the Q&A posts with Colette Heimowitz, M.S, VP for nutrition Communication & Education with Atkins Nutritionals, Inc, which was great, but the responses mentioning menopause didn’t address my specific issues.

Not sure if it is all mental, I need additional vitamins, need to change up the induction weeks ….. Has anyone conquered the same problems I‘m having??? 'Cause what I am experiencing this go-around with a LC plan is nothing like before. Help!!!

Arctic_Mama 02-25-2014 09:27 PM

My recommendation may be unpopular, but it sounds like you need more volume and potentially less fat. If you enjoy protein (as I do!) I find I do better with 'naturally occurring low carb fat' and not adding it in intentionally. I tried that for a bit but struggled to feel full, even with higher calories. For me, the benefits of more vegetable matter, nuts, and even some fruit like berries far outweighs any benefit lower carb/higher fat nets me. I still end up with 60-65% of my calories coming from fat even on the very highest carb days of my diet, so it is certainly not light on fat. But the veggie matter makes me feel good and fills my stomach, too. That and plenty of animal products is the core of my diet, with cheese, nuts, some low carb treats, and the aforementioned berries rounding it out.

I am still in the 35-40 net carb range most days of the week, and allow in the 50 net range for, say, a date night. But I tried lower protein/higher fat/lower carb a la nutritional ketosis and never did get much effect from it on the scale. I felt chronically hungrier than on a slightly higher carb intake.

Not all bodies are the same, but it may be worth a shot to try and add in something like pumpkin, jicama sticks, or mushrooms to your omelet, to add some bulk without adding significant calories (or much carb load).

Madmarsha 02-25-2014 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finallylosing (Post 16815109)
Just my two cents but when I have days like this its the Protein that finally fills me up and satisfies me, not the fat. I have been trying to decrease my protein a bit to see if I could loose a few more pounds but I am not happy on those days and find I'm really hungry. I have been maintaining this weight for about six months now and am happy with it but it's always nice to drop a few more! I just don't think it's worth it to be hungry.
Do you think you are getting enough protein? Could you try to up it a few days and see how you feel?

Was gonna say this. Nothing fills me up faster than a good piece of fatty prime rib. No other cut of meat does this to me so honestly I think it's the combo, but I've found it's more the protein than the fat.

Also, Dressagelover, love your avatar. Oh, and congratulations on your success thus far.

peanutte 02-26-2014 07:04 AM

Quote:

Peanutte - my portions of meat are large - in an effort to get full - and that is typically where my calories come from. Today I ate dinner at one of those buffet places (free tickets.) I enjoyed a salad and splurged on some ranch dressing and my calories for the day were 1851. About 115 grams protein, 12 grams carbs, 147 grams fat.
Protein has 4 calories per gram so at 115 grams for the day, that's 460 calories. Fat has 9 calories per gram, times 147 grams is 1323 calories. I'll take your word on it re: your huge protein portions but what I don't get is, where are you getting that much fat from the food you described. A couple of hardboiled eggs, a few tablespoons of salad dressing and the fat included in meat wouldn't add up to that much. How much stuff do you put in your BPCs?

peanutte 02-26-2014 07:28 AM

Oh, sorry--you already said this:
Quote:

At this point, I’m drinking about 300 calories of BPC in the morning to shave off breakfast calories and then white knuckling my hunger until noon. My coffee is blended with 2 T of unsalted butter and 1 T of coconut oil. If I had food, I could easily eat 600 calories of eggs, bacon, sausage and still be hungry mid morning.
But it sounds like drinking your calories in the form of pure fat and coffee IS leaving you hungry until noon.

sillyme 02-26-2014 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte (Post 16815238)
How does this even come close to 1700 calories? Am I missing something?

was wondering the same

chipmunkis 02-26-2014 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DressageLover (Post 16815059)
At this point, I’m drinking about 300 calories of BPC in the morning to shave off breakfast calories and then white knuckling my hunger until noon.

I don't think that drinking the calories is the way to go, IMO, especially breakfast, after not eating all night long...

DressageLover 02-26-2014 09:21 AM

If I eat breakfast instead of doing BPC, it takes about 600 calories to fill me - and I'm still wanting to chew my arm off by the time noon rolls around. Part of the issue is that I get up at 5am, so by 10, I feel that half the day has gone by.
Then I only have 600 calories or less to work with for the other two meals which make me feel about 65% full. I throw a snack in there and I'm back up to 2,000+ calories.
I really want to find some way to suppress my appetite so this isn't so damn hard. I don't know if increasing veggies/bulk will do it, but I'll try. I'm trying to make more soups so the liquid can help with a sense of fullness.

SuzanneM 02-26-2014 09:22 AM

I never eat food, only liquid cals in my coffee before 12 noon, your body doesn't care what form your calories come in?

peanutte 02-26-2014 09:57 AM

Quote:

your body doesn't care what form your calories come in?
Your stomach and mind might care. People who go on liquid diets, like the medically supervised ones, might be getting the calories and nutrition they need, but that doesn't mean they don't wish they were eating real food and they might not feel as if they got to have an actual meal even though their shake was enough calories. They might not feel a physical appetite for food but they still feel like they are missing the experience of eating, which is mental hunger, and can be just as uncomfortable as physical hunger.

Many people feel that drinking their calories doesn't have the same effect as eating solid food...but she is saying the opposite, that eating a solid-food breakfast makes her even hungrier. I don't get this. If her body knows how many calories it wants, as she believes it does, then how can 600 calories of solid food leave her body hungrier than 300 calories of liquid fat. I'm just asking, because I do not understand.

Dottie 02-26-2014 10:03 AM

75% of the time, roughly, if I eat breakfast I'm starving within 3-4 hours.
If I just have coffee (black or with cream), I am not hungry until noon or later.
(I get up at 4:30-5am most mornings).

Dottie 02-26-2014 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte (Post 16816138)
I don't get this. If her body knows how many calories it wants, as she believes it does, then how can 600 calories of solid food leave her body hungrier than 300 calories of liquid fat. I'm just asking, because I do not understand.

I can hypothesize (just thinking no proof kind) : maybe eating a meal triggers the metabolism (as we've all been drilled into thinking) and that metabolic "switch" causes hunger whereas a liquid doesn't turn it all on at once?

peanutte 02-26-2014 10:08 AM

I don't eat breakfast first thing in the morning either. I can't, for one thing, because of my levothyroxine. But I prefer to wait a couple of hours anyway.

Leo41 02-26-2014 11:19 AM

I think it depends on WHAT you eat. A typical eggs/bacon breakfast simply doesn't have enough protein to satisfy me.

I always eat breakfast (my biggest meal of the day), and I have between 40g and 60g of protein and NO carbs.

I also don't understand the OP because the only reason she'd be starving on 1700 cal a day is if she had a really high metabolism--and that would mean she would lose easily on even more calories.

I wonder what her CCL is. I would be starving, too, if I ate more than 20g of carbs because I'm that carb sensitive. So perhaps that's the issue.

Whatever the issue, a person has to deal with a weight he/she can sustain. I am eating now pretty much at the level I was eating when I got to this weight, so people need to beware of doing extraordinary things to achieve a scale weight that might not be sustainable.

TexasKitKat 02-26-2014 11:25 AM

OK, I'm going to assume you are female, right? If so, the "normal" weight range for your height on a BMI chart is 130-175 so you seem to be right there. I'm not sure what you can do about your thighs, though. Perhaps buy a larger size pants so you can at least be comfortable until you do get where you want to be? :dunno:

Also, I don't get the calorie counting you keep mentioning. I am LCing and pay no attention to my calories. I eat when I want to eat....meals, snacks, whatever....as long as its no/low carbs.

As others mentioned, maybe if you up the veggies, eat more protein, or otherwise tweak your menu but stay as far away as possible from carbs, you can do better and not feel so hungry. :hugs:

wish 02-26-2014 12:55 PM

We are all so individual and have things that may work or not.

I still think it may be worth a try to remove coffee, even decaf and eat solid food. Caffine spikes my insulin, decalf does a wierd thing by making me feel hungry too sometimes and I don't know why. I hated the feeling so I switched to sometimes having tea and not everyday. I noticed a difference.

When I was having hunger issues, I used a product that has Glucomannan in it. Glucomannan is a water-soluble polysaccharide that is considered a dietary fiber. If you have that with food and a glass or two of water, it should worked, it helped me.

One more thing, maybe you just need to focus on body composition? Do some resistance, weight training and sculpt your body, lose some inches that way. Ignore the weight on the scale.

Patience 02-26-2014 03:43 PM

You mentioned Newman’s Light Italian dressing.
Typically light dressings are higher carb and lower fat.
If this is the case, I'd suggest get a dressing that higher fat, lower carb.
I'd also suggest adding some fat to your boiled eggs, mix in some butter or spread with a creamy cheese spread or sour cream.
I am thinking if you are hungry a lot, get some fat and protein for breakfast.


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