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Old 02-26-2014, 05:18 PM   #31
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She is already eating over 140 grams of fat in a normal day. Newman's Light Italian is not high in carbs at all. It has 1 gram per 2 Tbsp.

If she adds more fat to her existing protein and eggs, all she will be doing is adding hundreds more fat calories when she is getting plenty as it is, and isn't losing weight or feeling satisfied.
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:54 PM   #32
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But since she is HUNGRY, I still think it would be good to eat food -- fat and protein and wee carbs. I think her menu looks really skimpy. I would be hungry eating that little, too.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:43 PM   #33
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It looks like I'm going to end up buying some fat pants.

I had my BPC around 9am today and by 9:30 my stomach was growling like I hadn't eaten in days. I made it until about 10:30 until I gave in and ate about 600 calories worth of tuna, mayo, and salad. I ate some chicken later in the afternoon and then a pork rib and chicken thigh at an event this evening. And (gasp!) a glass of wine.

Unless there is a magic pill for appetite suppression, I'm guess going to have to eat when I'm hungry and live with the results. Perhaps my appetite will back off if I stop frantically obsessing over it. I know I can't do my job well when I'm so hungry. Sigh.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:52 PM   #34
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:19 PM   #35
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Maybe you should be asking your doctor about your appetite problem. It sounds like you are willing to eat less, but you can't stand the hunger. If it were me, and--let's change it from food to sleep--I required 12 hours of sleep to feel rested, no matter what I tried to do, then I would see a doctor to look at any possible explanations for why I simply could not seem to get by on less than 12 hours of sleep. That wouldn't make sense to me and it wouldn't allow me to live my normal life. So I would be looking for explanations: hormones, thyroid, depression, side effects from over the counter or prescription medications--something. If I felt like no matter what I did, I just could not sleep 6-8 hours a night and feel okay, then I would want some answers.

So I think you might want to look at it from that point of view and bring this to your doctor. You've already tried appetite suppressant pills, but what you really need is to understand why you get so urgently hungry despite eating this amount of food. It might be a fixable problem.
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:48 AM   #36
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Man, I can't remember the last time I had twelve hours of sleep. Tonight I'm looking at around five of them. I definitely notice more cravings and poor appetite control when I'm less than seven or eight hours of sleep, so that may be something to look into. Sleep apnea, in particular, can be a big culprit for otherwise mysterious hunger and gains.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:33 AM   #37
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I have also experienced the ravenous hunger you talk about, OP, except mine occurs when I eat carbs, or, sometimes, when I haven't been eating enough for a day or two. Maybe you could just try to eat to satisfaction, just for one day - you might find that the next day you're not starving any more. Just as an experiment!

Also, when did you start noticing this hunger? You managed to lose 60 lbs already, which is a great achievement. Maybe your body just needs a breather before losing more.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:22 AM   #38
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Maybe it is the food for breakfast.

what is a 600 calorie breakfast for you?

I know what mine would be.

2 scrambled eggs 140 cals
2 slices melted cheese in those eggs 140
6 or 7 slices of bacon 210-240 cals

that bacon is what holds me big time. I mean I can go for hours after eating 6-7 slices of bacon.


are there some foods that just satisfy you to the max? like bacon does for me. 1 dumb food like bacon has made my hungry days so much more easy to handle. Also there are days I eat an entire pack of bacon and no eggs. I am in heaven and no bad effects of going hog wild on a full pack because my hunger is so controlled that I can't possibly go insane with calories after that thru the day.



I feel for you! Truly. You are in a hard situation. to be hungry to this level and being frustrated about all this has got to be miserable.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:12 AM   #39
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Man, I can't remember the last time I had twelve hours of sleep. Tonight I'm looking at around five of them. I definitely notice more cravings and poor appetite control when I'm less than seven or eight hours of sleep, so that may be something to look into. Sleep apnea, in particular, can be a big culprit for otherwise mysterious hunger and gains.

ArcticMama, I was just using that as an example. I don't know any actual adult person who gets or needs that much sleep. I wanted to use a non-food example because we can all make menu suggestions to her but in the end it sounds like the problem is her insatiable appetite, not the actual food she's eating.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:32 AM   #40
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I was going to just say that I think there are other things going on here. Definitely look into the sleep issue, that can cause your metabolism to go haywire. I'd also get some thyroid tests done (full panel). You might have a problem with blood sugar/insulin release.

Also, I have an issue where, after losing about 20 lbs of weight, my body wants to gain it back and my appetite seems out of control. So, I eat to hunger and become happy with maintaining for awhile. I'd rather reset my metabolism than be hungry all the time. I can't stand being hungry. I also find that counting calories makes me want to eat more (subconsciously). I have no idea why...but once I find out I have 250 calories left for the day, I need to eat them. If I'm over by 250 calories, then I feel bad and eat more. It's stupid. I just naturally eat less calories when I just eat to hunger (and what sounds good) and don't track.

Lastly, I'd look into food intolerances. I find that now that I've cut gluten and dairy, I don't have the cravings or hunger that I used to at all. That is seriously amazing...because I could go days just eating cookie dough. I know...gross..but it's true. I was a sugar junkie.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:35 AM   #41
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Nobody has a sleep issue! It was just an example! I didn't mean to derail the actual topic with that. heh heh
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:48 AM   #42
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I would recommend talking to your Doctor as well. I typically have a very slow metabolism due to a thyroid disorder, however there have been times where I've had a surge in thyroid hormones. During those surges my metabolism would race and I'd be starving no matter what I ate. I seriously had to eat every two hours or else I felt ravenous and light headed. Did I lose weight? NOPE! I had to eat so much to keep from passing out I gained 15lbs once! Most people with a hyperthyroid disorder lose weight but not me!

So I would definitely ask your Doctor, there may be something going on. Good Luck!
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:04 PM   #43
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You guys are right. I'll see a doctor about this. I'm 38 - maybe I need to check my hormones, take a closer look at Thyroid, whatever. In the meantime, I'll just stick with meat, eggs, and salad and hope I don't continue to pile on weight.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:50 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DressageLover View Post
It looks like I'm going to end up buying some fat pants.

I had my BPC around 9am today and by 9:30 my stomach was growling like I hadn't eaten in days. I made it until about 10:30 until I gave in and ate about 600 calories worth of tuna, mayo, and salad. I ate some chicken later in the afternoon and then a pork rib and chicken thigh at an event this evening. And (gasp!) a glass of wine.

Unless there is a magic pill for appetite suppression, I'm guess going to have to eat when I'm hungry and live with the results. Perhaps my appetite will back off if I stop frantically obsessing over it. I know I can't do my job well when I'm so hungry. Sigh.

Thanks everyone.
It doesn't sound like you are in ketosis. Do you feel like you are?

BPC is great for appetite suppression but I believe it only works in ketosis. It has the added benefit of providing easily converted fats (mct oils) for ketones. Many people have to moderate their protein intake in order to stay in ketosis.

Last edited by clackley; 02-28-2014 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:57 AM   #45
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I've always read that caffeine is an appetite suppressant, but reading your post I did a quick google "can coffee cause hunger" and a lot of people report that coffee (and caffeine in general) does increase their hunger tremendously about 30 minutes after drinking it.
It might be worth a try to skip the coffee for a day and see if it could be effecting you.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:03 AM   #46
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Dottie, did the information you found report whether it was black coffee, coffee with cream and sweetener or any of that info?
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:09 AM   #47
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Nope, just the general "I love my coffee but..." kind of thing.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:24 AM   #48
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I see. I guess it is worth a try but it will always be a question of 'is it the caffeine, the cream or the sweetener?'.

I personally am addicted to coffee. I do not however get the great hunger suppression with just coffee. I get good suppression but really great suppression comes from the added fats. Still, I would take black coffee over no coffee any day!!
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:07 AM   #49
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At 5'6'' ,my LBM is around 132.I could never go beyond 150.
Try taking a Body fat analysis,a reliable one,to find what your actual LBM and fat are and where you should be weightwise.Do not rely on BMI charts.They are past their expiry date.Your body fights you like crazy when you try to go below your ideal weight.

Caffeine was a problem for me and I lose better without it .It is one of those YMMV things.Caffeine messes up with insulin for some people.You have to completely give it up if this is the case.

You seem to be very bent on calories.I would say ignore calories,then focus on percentages and actual grams of protein,fat and carbs.

Being on a very low carb diet,and then eating anything out of plan,like a glass of wine,immediately makes me gain a few extra pounds overnight.BTDT.

Have you tested for hormones.there could be a number of hormones messing up,estrogen,prolactin,thyroid etc.

Finally,as Cathy suggested,being in ketosis is important,which is measured by a blood ketone meter.

I understand the struggle,I live it everyday,things that work for most people don't work for me anymore,but I am not yet to give up.I hope you find your answers.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:09 PM   #50
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I've been LC-on and off- for about as long as you. I recently posted about my body wanting to be 175 when I eat LC, but don't starve myself. I find it's very hard for me to get below 170-175 without being very, very careful of what I eat calorie wise. At this point in my life it's too hard to lose the last 20 lbs and be diligent about keeping it off , being that I work full time, have 3 kids, and a husband who is at work most of the time. I too find that I never really lose my appetite, unless I'm eating nothing but eggs and lean meat for a few days (then I just feel dizzy all the time). I'll admit I was a little disappointed with some of the responses to my post. Some felt I was selling myself short, or I was ruining my diet by having a within carb limit cheat over the weekends. But we all lose weight differently. I guess I find it hard to accept that I have a higher "happy weight" than many people on this board, but for me, it is what it is.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:46 PM   #51
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Thanks everyone. Clackley - I really don't know if I'm in ketosis. My diet is usually very low carb and fairly often, just meat and eggs when I'm really trying to drop a few pounds. I don't know why I wouldn't be in ketosis - but if I'm not, I don't know how I would get there. I've progressively cut out just about everything. I pretty much eat meat, eggs, and some small amounts of dairy and green vegetables.
I'm going to try to get in with a local doctor I've heard about that does very thorough blood testing and provides nutrition/vitamin guidance. He put a colleague of mine - who went in for arthritis pain - on a paleo plan and she has done phenomenally well. Knowing that he is supportive of the LC WOE is what interests me.
When most people say "doctor" or "nutritionist," I think of a twit telling me I need to eat more "whole grains."
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:06 AM   #52
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That is a great plan. At least you should be able to rule things out.

In terms of getting into ketosis (and this seems to apply to people who have done low carb for some time), it may be an issue of too much protein. The subject is disccussed at length in the N.k. forum. Here is a link...

Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb - Low Carb Friends

It seems to be the thing that helps some people and others, not so much. I think it is worth looking at.

Let us know what your new doctor is like?
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:29 AM   #53
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I hope you will give a listen to the Balanced Bites podcast episode # 128 beginning at 17 minutes.

It will change your life.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:37 AM   #54
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I second checking for food intolerances. I have been off gluten for years, but recently I found out dairy is a problem. It gives me asthma, a fast pulse, and cravings. What else might it be doing on the inside that I can't see?

Also get tested for vitamin or mineral deficiencies. Your body can't tell you "go and get me some magnesium" all it can do is make you hungry or maybe give you some vague cravings (that I think we often misinterpret) and hope you eat the right thing. If you don't, hungry again.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:09 PM   #55
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One appetite suppressant that has worked for me at least two times is the Steven Guyanet "no reward" eating. Keep your meals simple and repetitious with no seasonings. No salt, no butter. You will eat plenty of food but your brain is fooled into thinking you are fasting. You can read more about it on his web site called whole health source and there is a good interview with Chris Kresser called episode 10 - interview with Steven Guyanet on food reward and weight loss.

He says you should have one regular eating day a week so you can still have some wine!
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:51 PM   #56
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Honestly, if it's such a struggle, I'd rather make peace with being 10 or so pounds above my ideal weight, so I wasn't spending so much of my energy getting lower. Living with less anxiety and stress and being more relaxed about food and life has to be worth more to quality and quantity of life than being highly stressed and sometimes bouncing into your ideal weight.

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Old 03-02-2014, 12:34 AM   #57
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It could be the wine. I am amazed at the difference in my metabolism when I simply do not drink. One glass of wine can be hard to measure. One glass of wine can be hard to keep just to one, too. Its hard to have appetite suppression after drinking, I am just not sure one can truly be in ketosis with drinking. I read a great article recently about how drinking impedes weightloss in a multifactorial way. Try giving up the wine and replacing it with an exercise session. It might help.
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:10 AM   #58
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I find the BPC does not satisfy me like many people say it does them. Personally, 3 eggs for breakfast goes a long way for me.

It's great if you're going to be able to see a LC friendly doctor . It sounds like you need answers beyond what anyone here is able to tell you other than keep working hard and don't lose heart! You'll get there

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Old 03-02-2014, 09:51 AM   #59
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I have 2 suggestions:

1. Have you tried to do a Leptin Reset? I believe there were some threads here about it.
Leptin reset?

2. My daughter used to have a voracious appetite. She was literally always saying she was hungry. We had 3 Celiac panels done and they were all negative, and then we had the IGG food antibodies test done which showed a sensitivity to Gluten. Since cutting out gluten her appetite has returned to normal. Personally I believe that her body was crying for nutrients that she wasn't able to absorb because of the gluten intolerance. Maybe try giving it up for a couple weeks and seeing if it has any affect?

Good luck!
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:14 PM   #60
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When I am feeling like that when I have eaten as much as you I am wanting carbs. I wonder if that is what your feeling. I have tried low carb since 2004 and would lose and then go back to regular eating. This time seems to be different. I started out on target with the lowest carbs under 20. But in order to stay low carb I had to add some carbs. I wasn't losing much eating a lot of calories in protein. When I am hungry and nothing seems to help I eat blueberries and cream, drink hot chocolate with low carb milk and cocoa powder. Also broccoli cheese soup really helps to fill me up to have that full feeling. I use low carb tortillas to make pizza. I count calories and stay around 1200 for 4 days and then 800 on 3 days. I know that is low calories but I am at home and not getting much movement so I don't need as many calories. Also I not sure how old you are but I am 58 and just started through menopause this past September. At times of the month I use to be more hungry and nothing I helped. I use be doing well and then the hormones hit. During that time I craved carbs and could drink a lot of fluids all caused me to gain. 3 weeks a month I could eat right and a week I would feel horrible and eat stuff would have to start all over. I was very hungry for carbs at those times. I hope maybe this helps you.
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