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Whyohwh 11-30-2013 03:41 AM

Fears with LC and low cal
 
So I'm following the advice I've read on this forum, and went low carb + low cal.

Here are my greatest fears:

- My body will go in starvation mode, and not only won't I be able to lose, but my body will adjust and I will never, ever be able to eat above the numbers I'm at today.

- My mind will go in starvation mode, and I will binge.


I'm not looking for "eat more this less that" answers or questions; just wondering on members' take, or opinion, or experience on my two present fears

Dottie 11-30-2013 04:10 AM

Ask yourself a serious question: is the "goal" you're looking for strictly vanity?
Your body may be at the weight it needs to be.
Instead, try some weight training to tone up and ignore the scale number.
Many times if someone just wants to lose a few "scale pounds", a good tone up is really what they need :)

GailyGail 11-30-2013 05:10 AM

Whyohwy, you have posted several times questioning the low carb WOE and offered reasons as to why it may not be right for you. Low carb is great for many people but it is not for everyone. I believe that you mentioned having great success on Weight Watchers. Have you considered going back to that? At least once a week, if not more, you express frustration and dissatisfaction with low carb. At this point, you may want to do some soul searching and determine if this WOE is for you or not.

Patience 11-30-2013 06:56 AM

I assume others have said this, but seems to me that low carb and low calorie are not always a good combo. Yes there are some people that need to cut calories to get to goal.
If you are worried about starvation, you need to eat enough so that doesn't happen. Eating adequate protein and fat (while keeping carbs low) and is common advice for staving off binges. If you focus too much on calories you may indeed get hungry and trigger a binge. What is your age, height and weight? What is your goal weight? How many grams of carbs, fat and protein are you eating now? How many calories?

Without this info it is hard to address your fears, because "it depends . . . . "

IWasMadeThisWay 11-30-2013 07:21 AM

I'm one of those that has to watch calories, but I don't go super low. I think 1200 calories a day is a bit too low for me, and actually do better at around 1500 calories a day. BUT, I also find with this WOE that it is hard to eat up to my calorie goal.

I, personally, don't believe in the whole starvation mode stuff, but I do believe one can eat too little and never see any losses. I do believe that weight loss is individual. From my experience, I lost my best by calorie counting AND carb counting. I won't lose weight if I eat as little as -1200 calories, but I will at 1500+ calories. I can also eat higher protein than most and it not effect my losses. In any event, I still keep an eye on that as well as I believe it is better long term to keep fat higher.

Your mind won't go into starvation mode and cause a binge, that's really on you to make sure you are eating enough until satisfied, as well as a bit of motivation. Cravings come and go, and a taste of something only lasts a few seconds. To me, it's not worth it. If I really want something, I'll make a low carb version of it. That's it. Just make sure to eat enough food, and you'll be fine.

Trigger828 11-30-2013 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whyohwh (Post 16700684)
So I'm following the advice I've read on this forum, and went low carb + low cal.

Here are my greatest fears:

- My body will go in starvation mode, and not only won't I be able to lose, but my body will adjust and I will never, ever be able to eat above the numbers I'm at today. How low calories are you talking about? I mean 1200-1300 I lose good weight and that really isn't 'very low' like 900 would be. but if I eat over 1500-1600 I stall out. My sweet spot is like 1300-1500 per day and my losing does well then.

- My mind will go in starvation mode, and I will binge. If you 'think' you are not getting enough food on a very low cal, SURE, real fast you can binge out. 'thinking' you are being denied, starved, deprived and all that mind mess. If you are the type that can TRULY get away with very low cal. and be ok with eating way less, then ya might be ok. That would be hard for me. I like a good bit of food per day, so I would be the one that 'thought' I was starving :)

Also-----Everyone has a sweet spot. Really. You gotta find it. Instead of going 'gangbusters' on sporadic fixes....experiment with yourself. Track calories, fat, protein etc. Put some effort into finding your sweet spot. If you gain a bit, you can back off a bit. See the results. If you lose, but are a bit hungry add more food. til the scale says, that is enough :)

I did alot of experimenting doing lc. It takes time and effort. You have a sweet spot. You just have to find the right combination for you and believe me when ya find it, it helps alot and makes this plan doable without going bonkers.


best of luck to you

Whyohwh 11-30-2013 11:51 AM

I'm newish to this forum, and still trying to figure it out. The advice is a little overwhealming, but yet I find it helps.


It's true that I post about my frustrations. LC is tricky for me, but it's a 100 times better than WW - binge fest! Nightmare at the grocery store - everything was OK to eat - that's what the new WW says, eat anything you want, just within a certain limit. Limiting myself was too hard for me though - I can down a pound of cauliflower and rutabagas and brocoli in water within minutes and still crave that whole batch of homemade cookies.

So I thought about food almost all day.

I am afraid of low cal (for me, that's 1400-1500), because I've experienced hunger with these numbers, no matter the amount of protein or fat that I eat; and with hunger come thoughts of more food. Yet some members have been adamant about low cal low carb, and it makes sense to me.

I thought that some of you are quite happy on low cal (I keep my carbs at below 20). Maybe it's something worth learning to do, if I get the vanity results I'm after (and I do lift weights 6 times a week).

I'm a tweaking champion but decided to stay on the low cal track for a while. It's just a little scary.

LowCarbedD 11-30-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GailyGail (Post 16700709)
Whyohwy, you have posted several times questioning the low carb WOE and offered reasons as to why it may not be right for you. Low carb is great for many people but it is not for everyone. I believe that you mentioned having great success on Weight Watchers. Have you considered going back to that? At least once a week, if not more, you express frustration and dissatisfaction with low carb. At this point, you may want to do some soul searching and determine if this WOE is for you or not.

:goodpost:

Leo41 11-30-2013 01:48 PM

IMO, if you focus on your 'fears,' you're helping to defeat yourself. Whatever way of eating you choose, it must be something you can live with happily.

In previous posts, you've complained about 'gaining' on low carb, and there are only two reasons that happens (according to Drs. Atkins and Eades)--carb creep (you're eating more carbs than you realize) and/or calorie creep (you don't have a caloric deficit--and no one loses without a deficit). The caloric level you mention (1400-1500) is not 'low calorie' for a woman your size and age, so you really don't have to worry about that.

What you need to do (IMO) is simply experiment to see what works for you in terms of losing. If limiting yourself on WW was too difficult, it should be easier with low carb, but keep in mind that many low-carb foods are also calorically dense, so you may need to consciously limit yourself.

You actually may be thwarting your efforts to lose in 'lifting' 6 days a week. Most experts advise only 2-3 days a week--unless you're an elite bodybuilder. Excessive exercise can cause hormonal disturbances--e.g., by stressing the thyroid.

grneyedldy 11-30-2013 03:01 PM

I have been reading here since September, soaking up all the wonderful information and advice about what I naively considered a simple WOE. I have now come to see that it is much more complicated than I previously thought, at least for some.

I have read many (if not all) of Whyohwh's posts and I haven't seen her "complain" once. Quite the opposite. She has tried every thing that has been asked.

From where I'm sitting, all she wanted to do was figure out how to lose weight while eating LC. She posted that she loved the food and loved feeling satiated. Selling points of the LC WOE for most, right? What she was stumped by, was she couldn't lose any weight after months of eating "clean".

Then came the advice......change her macros (which she did), eat less protein (which she did), give up dairy (which she did), give up AS, etc. etc. etc. She complied with all the advice given. Then she was told she was eating too many calories, so she cut her calories.....yet she questioned what will happen with her hunger pangs (who wouldn't?) And she is told that she is complaining and should just accept the weight she is or go try another WOE.

I've seen so much compassion and sage advice from the short time I've been reading here, but this time I think the mark was missed.

Why I felt compelled to make this topic my second post, I really don't know. I just felt the need to jump in. I hope that's ok.

Whyohwh 11-30-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grneyedldy (Post 16701218)
I have been reading here since September, soaking up all the wonderful information and advice about what I naively considered a simple WOE. I have now come to see that it is much more complicated than I previously thought, at least for some.

I have read many (if not all) of Whyohwh's posts and I haven't seen her "complain" once. Quite the opposite. She has tried every thing that has been asked.

From where I'm sitting, all she wanted to do was figure out how to lose weight while eating LC. She posted that she loved the food and loved feeling satiated. Selling points of the LC WOE for most, right? What she was stumped by, was she couldn't lose any weight after months of eating "clean".

Then came the advice......change her macros (which she did), eat less protein (which she did), give up dairy (which she did), give up AS, etc. etc. etc. She complied with all the advice given. Then she was told she was eating too many calories, so she cut her calories.....yet she questioned what will happen with her hunger pangs (who wouldn't?) And she is told that she is complaining and should just accept the weight she is or go try another WOE.

I've seen so much compassion and sage advice from the short time I've been reading here, but this time I think the mark was missed.

Why I felt compelled to make this topic my second post, I really don't know. I just felt the need to jump in. I hope that's ok.


Thank you so much for your post. I do feel a little strange every time I post; lots of critics. Your post was spot on for me.

Still hungry at 1500 ish calories (low for me), and still not losing weight; but like a few members said, it's all about patience.

Aleina 11-30-2013 05:56 PM

Why oh why , I am one of the people who do not believe that low carb and low cal are compatible. I do not know how much you weigh and what your history is but if you have been obese for years I would strongly recommend just adhering to the low carb part and entertain the idea of a nutritional ketosis diet.
It worries me that you say that you took the advice of the board. Inform yourself more,beyond this board beyond my "advice " I have just given you and find out if what everyone says feels correct to you. When I read the Atkins premise I immediately thought that makes sense,it explains why I can have a loaf of sliced bread as a snack before dinner.
For me it took quite a while to find my winning formula to lose weight. again this only applies if you have been obese for years but losing slowly or not at all means that your hormonal balance is out of whack. Nutritional ketosis sets you on the way to overcome this imbalance. Another theory is that we carry around a lot of inflammation in our bodies due to the high carb diet we have been following so until you get the balance of nutrients right you will not lose.
One thing I could possibly recommend you whatever you decide to follow is to start eating fish and seafood. If you are on a budget a can of tuna will do for that purpose. The SAD diet is inherently high in omega 6 oils and while they are essentially good fatty acids they need to be accompanied by omega 3 fatty acids ( hence the fish) which will decrease inflammation levels.

Sorry I did not answer your question but actually gave you more to think about.

Punkin 12-01-2013 06:06 AM

I lose at around 1200cal/day and maintain at 1500 cal/day. I rarely experience hunger unless I have exercised a bit too much the day before based on these numbers. Usually for me too much hunger means too many carbs. Or too much protein and not enough fat at a meal. Eating a decent amount of fibre helps as well. I have never gone into starvation mode or experienced a stall. Mind you, I still binge once in awhile. For me bingeing means overeating significantly. It usually happens when I am at a pot luck, buffet restaurant or at holiday meals. I think you are pretty safe from going into starvation mode (if there is such a thing) if you stay about 1200 cal/day, which it sounds like you do.

Whyohwh 12-01-2013 07:57 AM

Thanks Aleina, I think you're right : it takes time to find the right "formula". That's why other people's advice is so precious : if it works for this person, it might work for me; I'll give it a try; if I'm not happy after a certain amount of time (2 weeks?), I'll try something else.

And Punkin, 1200 calories is way too low for me. Assuming I could lose weight at that number, it would't take me long to start diving into the bucket of zero carb mayo armed with a whole chicken (I don't binge that much on carby stuff anymore).

Atkins is a way of life. My way of life should not include daily hunger - at least, not willingly.

greengeeny 12-01-2013 08:04 AM

I have no idea what my calories are. I never count them. I do make sure that I am under 20 carbs a day, or there abouts. I am losing weight...haven't really stalled yet...knock on wood. I have been at it for almost 2 1/2 months.

I have tried low carb before, and on this website. The problem was that I got "too much advice". I would read all of it and constantly change up what was working for me originally. I wanted it to work better. Finally I just gave up on it. Sometimes you don't need to take all of that advice. By the time I was done tweaking my program before, I was so far away from where I started and it just wasn't working for me. This time around, I am sticking to the basics that I KNOW>I haven't tweaked once, with the exception of buying coconut oil.

MtherGoos 12-01-2013 08:20 AM

Honestly, instead of listening to all of the advice you're getting here, and constantly tweaking your plan, maybe you just need to learn to listen to your body. Eat when you're actually hungry. Not mental hunger, but actual physical hunger. Stop eating when you're satisfied. Not stuffed, but no longer hungry. Eat only foods off of the allowed list of foods, and keep it simple. Don't worry about your macros, or your calories. Don't obsess over the scale. Stick to the plan, listen to your body, and give it time.

dgidaho 12-01-2013 10:12 AM

Or another thing you could try would be to go to "bare bones" or "hard core" Atkins, eating only a few very low carb foods. Sort of like a "blank slate" approach. Get adjusted to that level of eating, then branch out, one thing at a time, as a sort of "testing" to see which foods will work for you and which will not.

I'm far from an expert, and won't be offended in the least if you hate the idea--but the thought crossed my mind and just wanted to throw it out there.

Arctic_Mama 12-01-2013 11:44 AM

Let's be careful here - I'm definitely in the camp of 'tweak less, but don't ignore overall energy balance'. I watch carbs first, then calories if my losses aren't there but everything else is where I desire it to be. I have to do this, it's what my body requires.

But you likely don't need to go low carb and low calorie. LowER calorie, sure, but eating to satiety. This might mean you focus a bit less on fat and more on protein, as some women find they need to do post-menopause. This might mean very high fat and lower carb. Tough to say, every body is different. Sometimes >20 carbs per day is rough on the body and we find we lose better when we hit 35-45 net, instead. There are many reasons this could be the case.

I'm not a fan of calories, per se, except that they are an easy metric to track and I find breaking down grams of macronutrients more tedious. But maybe even a simple framework of P/F for breakfast, P,F,C for lunch, and P,F,C for dinner might help you. That's just a basic exchange framework whereby you eat a portion of protein/fat/carb to satiety, but not fullness, and count that. Easy peasy, but it still offers a framework and thereby offers a measure of control/moderation to you eating.

That's really all I'd suggest - find SOMETHING you can live with, that controls your overall food intake and matches it to your body's needs, but allows a small deficit to get off that remaining weight. Otherwise, learn to live with a few extra pounds and keep doing what you're doing. When getting off weight at lower overall bodyfat the difference between a loss/stall/gain is a slim margin. Could it be it requires a choice you simply don't want to make? If so, that's okay! But you need to make peace with that limit and not keep tweaking your way around it.

I don't think you need to starve to get off the weight, if it truly needs to go and is too much for your frame. But it may require a little more structure or strategy than you've been applying, that limits your intake a bit more than your low carb default consumption. Make any sense?

nikki 12-01-2013 12:05 PM

I know my avatar says I have lost only five pounds but I have been doing this weight loss/low carb thing a looong time and I have had major successes with it in the past.

I do low carb combined with low cal and it is totally doable. The selections DO get a bit boring but that's because I'm a vegetarian and so I have extremely limited choices.

When I stall, I switch to JUDDD for a couple of weeks and I eat a ton of veggies for a while. Then I go right back to low carb/low cal and the weight loss resumes.

sarahatl 12-01-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikki (Post 16702028)
I know my avatar says I have lost only five pounds but I have been doing this weight loss/low carb thing a looong time and I have had major successes with it in the past.

I do low carb combined with low cal and it is totally doable. The selections DO get a bit boring but that's because I'm a vegetarian and so I have extremely limited choices.

When I stall, I switch to JUDDD for a couple of weeks and I eat a ton of veggies for a while. Then I go right back to low carb/low cal and the weight loss resumes.

How do you do it being a vegetarian. I rarely ate meat until I went low carb...I couldn't find anything to eat. What protein do you eat that you can do LC and not eat meat.?

nikki 12-01-2013 02:46 PM

I eat a lot of soy products and soy/based imitation meat products. I consume plenty of legumes (though they push my carbs up so I use them more when I am on maintenance). I am not gluten sensitive so I can eat seitan (wheat protein) and I eat eggs (LOTS of eggs) and dairy.

domesticbliss 12-01-2013 02:57 PM

I do low carb and low calorie.
As far as starvation mode: there's no way if you eat wonderful proteins and veggies like LC advocates that your body will be starved for nutrition only because you've reduced your calories. The foods you will be filling up on are so nutrient dense and nourishing that the 'starvation mode' doesn't apply here... unless you're only eating like 400-500 calories in which your body might protest a little.
I have lost well eating LC and low calorie, and lost consistently too.

The mind starvation mode... your mind can't go into starvation mode, it can make you crave foods, but ususally that is a result of external stimuli/triggers, not because you're actually hungry. Bingeing doesn't come from true hunger, true hunger can be satisfied easily and not with a truckload of food, bingeing comes from an emotional state.

About not being able to lose above the numbers you're at now... I think if you eat the right foods and really watch your carb count, you can still lose/easily maintain (once you get there) at higher calorie numbers.

Hope that helped!

Whyohwh 12-01-2013 03:07 PM

domesticbliss, if only what you said could be true for me! LC is great and I love it, but below 80grams of protein - heck, below 100 grams of protein - I get hungry, and no amount of fat can change that. Unless my body has to adjust to a lower protein number, like 60, which is was a lot of people can do.

At 400-500 calories, my body would absolutely do more than protest a little...

Also, when I eat above 125 grams of fat, no matter how low the rest is, my heart starts pounding. I had my gallblader removed - could be a reason why I can't have real high fat - even though I love real high fat - butter! butter!

Today, I ate 130 grams of protein, 110 grams of fat, 1466 calories, 17 grams of carb. My little heart is doing fine.

Whyohwh 12-01-2013 03:09 PM

nikki, I thought tofu wasn't such a good idea on LC. Don't know why I tought that.

Can I ask you how much tofu you eat - or if you eat it every day without problem? I love tofu - I'm not vegetarian, I just like the taste mixed in with chicken or beef. Would have it two or three times a day if I could. Cheap, tasty, perfect!

SuzanneM 12-01-2013 03:15 PM

whyohwhy, I'm wondering if you have ever really been in ketosis?
When I reach that state after 3-4 days of less than 20g carbs, I experience no hunger whatsoever and have to remember to eat. That's the wonder of lowcarb for me, that binging, eating too many calories are taken out of the equation. I have mental clarity and my energy goes through the roof.

I'm playing around with my last 10lbs to go, and I know that I have to watch my calories, ideally around 1500 for me to go the rest of the way.

Whyohwh 12-01-2013 04:58 PM

Suzanne M, I thought that at below 20g carbs, I was automatically in ketosis.

Thought of buying those sticks, but they seem to get mixed reviews.

Arctic_Mama 12-01-2013 05:01 PM

Suzanne - it's very individual. I've been in ketosis steadily for months at a time, eating very cleanly, and still experience strong hunger cues. It's not inappropriate - like awful cravings or two hours after a big meal, but they definitely come. Any appetite suppression I get with low carb leaves after a few weeks of steady state ketosis. But the difference is that my overall energy management is normalized - ie: real hunger when I need energy, good satiety when I don't.

Whyohwhy - I'm the same as you, in that I do better with higher protein. I eat plenty of fat, but do find my protein has to be higher than nutritional ketosis recommendations for my personal chemistry.

Arctic_Mama 12-01-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whyohwh (Post 16702347)
Suzanne M, I thought that at below 20g carbs, I was automatically in ketosis.

Thought of buying those sticks, but they seem to get mixed reviews.

At your age and size, with those macros, you definitely are. That's why I said the appetite suppressive effects of ketosis are very individual. Some argue they aren't there at all, but rather than appropriate nourishment diminishes the craving/binge reflex so much in some individuals that they believe normal hunger cues and satiety are nearly miraculous. If you've been feeling that awful feeling for so long, just being corrected can be incredible.

Low carbers go back and forth on this - but trusting that some folks do indeed feel no real, physiological hunger on low carb, I can confidently say that some do (like moi!).

metqa 12-01-2013 07:15 PM

I see nothing wrong with diving into the mayo with the whole roasted Chicken. :dunno:
:D

If that's what your body is telling you to eat, go for it, you could do worse. In fact that has been exactly my entire days meals sometimes. I'd roast a chicken and eat nothing much but chicken dipped in mayo. It was great, and i felt great and most importantly I felt satisfied.

Feeling satisfied with your eating is one of the basics, if you don't feel secure there, you will worry and that's not acceptable. Eat to satisfaction and keep tweaking, but eating enough should come first. Go for the high fat stuff you like and your appetite will wan and you might actually naturally eat less. As far as weight loss, that depends as everyone says on many factors including the fact that you are weight training.

If you are getting stronger and more muscles, you may not have scale victories, but might have inches and strength victories.

SuzanneM 12-01-2013 07:27 PM

Yes I realize it's individual, just commenting on how being in ketosis affects me. :shake:
My blood sugar is level and I do not feel hunger per se, I get lightheaded as my signal to eat. I don't stay in ketosis long term, I use it as tool to reign myself in after periods of lax eating. I wish I were more committed, as I do feel my best being in ketosis.


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