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spoiltmomof2 11-28-2013 11:25 AM

does ketosis not control your appetite?
For me it doesn't:( So by eating high fat if I eat until I'm full I lose weight very, very, very slowly because I'm taking in too many calories I'm assuming.

I know everyone says Atkins needs to be high fat but why?

Even if I stay below 20 grams of carbs a day I don't lose weight unless I stay below 1600 calories.

Staying low Carb does control my blood sugar and my Carb/sugar cravings so I don't want to stop but I do need to keep losing. right now I can't get below 175:(

ouizoid 11-28-2013 11:35 AM

see, I think we are all different. I need to eat very low fat with slightly higher carbs to feel appetite control. When I eat high fat low carb, I get hungry, almost bingey. If I eat a more vegetable based diet, I am free of cravings and hunger. I just think we all have different genetic organizations. I am definitely in favour of lowish carb--but I had to find my way of having appetite suppression, and it is not the same as others.

Ntombi 11-28-2013 12:37 PM

Ketosis definitely suppresses my appetite. What's more, not eating carby food doesn't lead to blood sugar highs and lows, so I don't feel starving three hours after eating something like oatmeal. So the combination of eating very low carb and being in ketosis makes a difference for my hunger pattern.

I eat very low carb (fewer than 20g total), moderate protein (~120g--enough to nourish my LBM), and enough fat to make up the rest of my calories, because fat is the macronutrient that won't affect blood sugar nor be stored as fat. So yes I eat high fat, but that doesn't mean that I'm eating a ton of calories. I don't count calories, but I generally average about 1800-2000 calories per day, with some outliers.

If you need to keep your calories below 1600, do that.

Leo41 11-28-2013 01:28 PM

I happen to be very carb sensitive, and while eating <20g carbs a day (my norm) takes the 'edge' off my appetite, I could easily overeat, if I did not watch my calories, too. (Carbs stimulate an insatiable appetite, which is why I spent my life morbidly obese.)

There are low-carb 'plans' that are NOT high fat (South Beach, Dukan, Stillman), so eating high fat is not essential to low-carb eating.

Since I'm both post-menopausal and hypothyroid, I have to limit my calories strictly, so I eat low to moderate fat, low carb. It can't be harmful because I've been eating this way for over 5 years, and my endo does a regular blood panel--and my numbers are superb. At age 72, the only Rx I take are my thyroid hormones, and I can't remember the last time I was even slightly ill.

As Ouis has commented, we're all different, and I believe that learning about yourself and your own body is the key to effective weight management.

spoiltmomof2 11-28-2013 02:22 PM

Leo and Ouiz, approximately how many net carbs and total calories do you guys eat per day?

jeaniem 11-28-2013 02:32 PM

Ketosis has no lasting effect on control of my appetite.

Spanilingo 11-29-2013 06:45 AM

Transitioning to Ketosis suppresses my appetite but after a week or so it returns to normal. By normal, I mean, I get hungry at several hour intervals and can eat relative portions (lets say serving size though that is variable for each individual) and be satisfied (not hungry) for a few more hours usually.

example: eggs and bacon breakfast. I am not REALLY hungry until lunch. I might have a piece of cheese or about 10-15 nuts for snack. Or no snack.

There is a difference between suppressed appetite and no appetite. With Ketosis, I can satisfy my appetite with less food than when I eat high carb foods given I eat adequate protein. I learned with NK that I needed to make sure I ate enough protein first, then fats and carbs. You need high enough fats because that is what your body will be using for fuel. Otherwise, your body will use lean body mass. You want your body to use its own body fat for fuel if you have too much body fat AND dietary fat.

When I exerise I need to eat more fat at my body needs more fuel since it uses fat for fuel since it isnt using carbs for fuel.

Look up Peter Attia or Phiney and Volek.

Go onto Nutritional Ketosis section. CLACKEY is a poster that can explain it best. Search for her posts.

You need ENOUGH protein and ENOUGH fat. Not excessive protein nor excessive fat.

clackley 11-29-2013 07:22 AM

Spanilingo, thank you - I am quite flattered! But you explained it perfectly.

It is a very individual thing and no one formula necessarily works for everyone. But one thing for sure is that if you think you are not getting the full effects of ketosis (i.e. appetite suppression as you are noting), there are methods to be sure you are actually in ketosis and staying there.

Lots of really knowledgeable people on the n.k. forum. Be careful about thinking in terms of calories. It can be a pit fall.

Leo41 11-29-2013 08:00 AM


To answer your questions:

I need to stay at about 25g total carbs, and I'm usually closer to 20g. When I first did Atkins many years ago, I tested as he advises to find my CCL (critical carb level), and min was just about 25g. I tested during my final weight-loss process recently, and it's the same.

I suspect that we all feel best at different carb levels, and I know that I thrive with this amount--I feel great.

I maintain at about 1,100 calories average (I cycle so I eat at a different level most days), and while this may seem very low, age (72) and hypothyroidism are complicated by what my endo believes is a 'genetically slow metabolism that I've had throughout my life. Again, I feel great eating at this level.

The only "pitfall" I can imagine with calorie consciousness is when a person is so focused on calories that he/she ignores the quality of food and chooses a lot of junky foods simply because they have fewer calories.

I eat low-carb for my health(whole, unprocessed foods) focusing on getting sufficient protein, and I watch my calories in order to manage my weight. That combination works for me.

Ntombi 11-29-2013 09:35 AM

Spanilingo's right: I didn't mean that I don't get hungry while in ketosis, but I don't get that raving hunger or hypoglycemic symptoms that used to happen. It's just appropriate hunger that comes at appropriate intervals, and I don't feel like I'm going to die if I don't eat when it hits.

jhbyrd 11-29-2013 09:44 AM

When in ketosis I get hungry but not cravings, I get hungry when I should get hungry if that makes sense. But it kills all the cravings but not to say that when I see something I do not want it like cake, dougnuts and etc but it makes it A LOT easier not to eat them. I do not binge when I do LC if I stay on plan but if I go off the binge moster comes out!!LOL!!

And I do LC/high fat and am mindful of calores not that I count them, but I do not count fats either just carbs.



shunsweets 11-29-2013 10:29 AM

Ketosis does not suppress my appetite. Nor does it get rid of my cravings for carbs. I have to be vigilant every..single..day. I eat this way for health and to help control my diabetes but for me it simply doesn't give appetite change. Maybe because of diabetes? I do know it is the healthiest way for me to eat but it is never easy or intuitive for me and I envy those who get those benefits.

spoiltmomof2 11-29-2013 10:32 AM

Well I don't get hypoglycemia but when I say it doesn't control my appetite I mean I can eat a 6 or 8 ounce steak with a salad and broccoli and I'm still starving.

I'm like an endless pit.

greengeeny 11-29-2013 10:48 AM

It controls mine. I eat high fat. I eat under 20 carbs a day, and I am FULL. Sometimes I can't even finish my food. I don't count calories at all. That may change as I shrink smaller, but for now, it is working :)

MtherGoos 11-29-2013 11:18 AM

I do think it varies for everyone, and you have to find what works for you. I do eat very low carb, high fat, and moderate protein, BUT if my fat ratio is TOO high and I'm not eating enough protein, then I do find that I get hungry. As long as I'm getting enough protein with my fat, I'm rarely hungry.

mimivac 11-29-2013 12:08 PM

I get appetite suppression only occasionally. I feel hungry often, but it doesn't faze me. I don't count anything, but I've been doing this long enough to know when I'm overeating. My diet is definitely high fat, but not a TON of high fat, just enough to nourish (and yes, I am usually happy and satisfied).

KaisMama 11-29-2013 01:50 PM

When I'm in ketosis I don't want to eat. I have to force myself. Weird how it affects people differently.

Punkin 11-30-2013 05:37 AM

High fat will suppress my appetite, but only sometimes. Adding more soluble fiber seems to help me. I notice that carbs stimulate my appetite the most, but it is false hunger. Also I used to have issues by over consuming protein as well, but if I can keep it under 15g per meal it seems to be ok. I have to balance my macros at every meal, and it has to be at least 60% fat. I also have to make sure I have enough Fiber at a meal. Sometimes that comes through adding more vegetables.

clackley 11-30-2013 07:33 AM

Glucomannan powder and shirataki noodles (which come from the same source)are good choices for soluble fiber. They are both almost 100% soluble fiber and can really aid in cooking. The nice thing about these is they don't add any carbohydrate.

Trigger828 11-30-2013 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by spoiltmomof2 (Post 16700191)
Well I don't get hypoglycemia but when I say it doesn't control my appetite I mean I can eat a 6 or 8 ounce steak with a salad and broccoli and I'm still starving.

I'm like an endless pit.

YUP! I hear ya loud and clear. This was (and can still be) me :)

I eat. I like TONS of food. that is why I am here and believe me it is hard to 'just scrape' that wanting of more food away.

What I do now is combo my food. There are days I know I can get thru eating a 'normal meal' like you listed above. But there are those times that I am the bottomless pit and when that happens I eat again right after the meal. I wait about 15 minutes which can actually be hard but that is the term limit I put on myself :). Then I fry up a burger with cheese and some bacon strips. YUP. When that stupid bottomless pit feeling hits I eat another real LC meal. And a good satisfying one. Cause at that point once I eat it, I feel full. My mind is happy. OK girl, you ate a ton of food right now. You are ok. if I did not eat that second meal I would be scrounging the entire kitchen picking thru who knows what to find satisfaction. I decided long ago just eating another LC meal was the way to go for me. It worked. I actually don't 'do the second meal' as much anymore because in my mind 'I KNOW I CAN HAVE IT' anytime I want so it takes the bottomless pit hunger pressure off me.

I love food and that will never change. key for me is keep the lc meals coming if needed just to get thru a day feeling in control and reasonable.
I know that sounds kinda crazy but it is something I use in my plan for eating lc long term that keeps me on track.

spaceace 12-01-2013 02:23 PM

I want to help with one particular part of your post, where you ask why high in fat is recommended. I have heard many times to "up your fat intake", but never really had it explained in these boards (that I saw) as to why. My knowledge comes from bodybuilders, who have to have a pretty good knowledge of how it all works to try to compete on the stage. To be clear, bodybuilders typically only do low carb to lose weight, and when they want to build muscle, they prefer having sugar in the diet because insulin does help build muscle. That being said, this is "bro-science" but seems to explain why "high fat" may work to help shed pounds.

Protein causes an insulin response, and the body can and will break down protein for energy instead of fat and and sugar under certain conditions in some people. The theory is that if your diet is low in fat and low in carbs, that process begins and your body consumes the protein from your meals, and then in your muscles, for energy. If you have a high level of fat with your protein, however, the body is set for burning fat, both from your food and from your fat stores, and therefore spares your muscles. I am not sure if this is really what happens, but it seems to explain why fat storage is more easily accessed for fuel when there is fat in the diet.

If anyone can clarify or correct what I've said, feel free -- that's what the board is for. I just wanted to address that part of the OP's question to the best of my knoweldge. I can't address how this affects appetite, but I figured I would explain why high fat is often recommended.

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