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Old 10-15-2013, 03:22 AM   #1
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CKD Cyclical Ketogenic Dieting Worth It?

What do you guys think of CKD or Cyclical Ketogenic Dieting?

It means basically staying in ketosis most of the time and then having 'refeed' day(s) to replenish the muscle glycogen stores and have the 'benefits' of an insulin spike.

I recently listened to a podcast where a couple experts suggested having a high carb meal day once a week. They mentioned that an occasional insulin spike is actually healthy and even necessary.

I started reading up on other people's opinions and I noticed that most vlc people think that a cheat day is counterproductive and that it can set a person back significantly and even possibly derail them. Some claim that it can take up to 2 weeks to get back into the level of ketosis they were in before the cheat.

I like the idea of being able to have a free cheat meal or cheat day. It appeals to my love of variety and sense of not being deprived completely.

I think that if someone is decently fat adapted, they can most likely cheat for an evening and go back to low carb the next day and quickly get back to where they were.. maybe within a day or two.

What do you guys think? What have your experiences been with this? Anybody know any solid science on this stuff?

In the past I have not done that well with cheating, but I think a planned cheat meal or day may be different.

By the way, I have been doing very well now for a bit over 2 weeks and don't really have any major cravings and have been able to be very disciplined about eating the way I am.

Please share your thoughts/experiences.

Thank You!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:14 AM   #2
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This is the recent Jimmy Moore podcast I assume? We've been discussing this on the Nutritionall Ketosis forum lately too.

We're all not too sure about it, just because many of us know we have problems with blood sugar, and a cheat meal (or 6 hour window) can raise the blood sugar dangerously high.

I tend to naturally have a "cheat meal" once or twice a week (I hate that term though) just by going out to eat. I've noticed it does crazy things to my blood sugar though, so I'm learning to control it more and more.

But I've stayed in NK even after a meal out, but I've been at this now for over 5 months and I'm well adapted, I believe. I can get back right on plan for the next meal, and have not had two carbier meals in a row. And truthfully, I've probably still not gone over 50g carbs in one day yet.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:43 AM   #3
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Check the thread on here called "ate carbs, drop in weight" or something to that effect. I think other posters mentioned about the podcast, but I mention my theory I've had for a while which outlines the same, albeit not once a week, only when you're stalling.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:56 AM   #4
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I think a lot of factors come into play if you carb cycle. Like what kinds of carbs will you be eating? And from my experience there's a difference between me exercising and not exercising when I eat higher amounts of carbs. This is probably why bodybuilders have such great success with carb cycling. In the past a cheat meal would set me back about 2 wks. Just recently though I ran a 5k and that night I ate my typical lc meal followed by half a piece of Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. I still saw a good loss the next morning and continued to see losses for the week. But 2 things were done differently with this cheat. The first thing was I had a higher amount of protein prior to the cheesecake and I had just run a 5k. So the extra protein could have balanced things out or I had lost some extra water weight from the run. I'm not sure and I'm not willing to test out my theory on a regular basis. But it would be interesting to hear from someone who has played around with carb cycling.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:06 AM   #5
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Sounds like The Carb Nite Solution by Kiefer. I've been doing a lot of reading the past few days just out of curiosity and it looks like it works well for men. Maybe not so well for women. Kiefer, in an interview, said that women (on Carb Nite) should go for lower fat carby stuff (cookies vs pizza) and don't pig out (which apparently men can do). Otherwise, what seems to happen is that the women will gain 2-3 pounds on carb nite and then over the next week, they'll lose it and this cycle continues...hamster on a wheel. After reading some of the Carb Nite forums, I've not found many women who were successful on this 'solution'.

As a diabetic, this isn't something I would ever do as it would mess with my diabetic control. I wouldn't recommend it for the true carb addicts who react to a bite of carbs like an alcoholic with alcoholic. One bite and they're off and running and can't stop until they're 'in the gutter'.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:53 AM   #6
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I was intrigued by the notion that insulin could be spiked by protein and luicine rather than carbs. In theory this could be a better solution for jump starting the hormones they claim are suppressed after time on a keto woe.

I attempted to create an insulin spike in this way 2 times with no noticable change in anything. I am not willing to up my carbs so it is a 'no go' for me.

Over the years that I have been on this forum, I have 'witnessed' some posters say that they are going to try this 'carb loading' strategy and they have not be heard from since. I am making the assumption that it really didn't work......
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:52 AM   #7
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I think it's an interesting theory. But I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. What's really interesting is they want you to eat the things that got us here in the first place. And, they still aren't healthy, once in a while or not. I've just gotten my head around that, so I'm not judging anybody here.

For the 'science' part, you could check out Maria's site. She has a lot of good info on what theses foods really do to us. She recommends a 're-feed' or 'cheat meal' but it's with healthy carbs not that junk we all were/seem to be addicted to. Isn't that like giving an alcoholic just one drink?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post

Over the years that I have been on this forum, I have 'witnessed' some posters say that they are going to try this 'carb loading' strategy and they have not be heard from since. I am making the assumption that it really didn't work......
Exactly this. This subject comes up now and again and I've seen a lot of people tempted by it (heck, I'm tempted by it) but no one long term successful, particularly no one with any real weight left to lose.

Maybe if you have an iron will and just increase your carbs to 50 or so rather than 20/30 as mentioned above - I don't think that would do me much harm. I just don't think it would do me much good either. I do occasionally have slightly higher carb days but it never jumps my loss.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #9
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I think that if someone is not a diabetic, nor a pre-diabetic, a carb cycle is fine. In fact, if fat loss is the goal, it may even be preferable if one is not very overweight. However...one must be disciplined. A high carb meal is going to produce cravings and tummy rumblings the following day that aren't experienced as much on a strict low carb diet. If you can power through the day after and continue on schedule, give it a go and see if it works for you.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:36 PM   #10
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I don't have a great deal of weight to lose, but I'm in a real groove here and I'd be very afraid of disrupting that. I know myself, and if I allow a carby meal/day/treat, it would be so hard to fight the cravings that would follow.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:44 PM   #11
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Still playing around with the idea

I'm still playing around with the idea in my head. Right not I dare not do it, because I am close to reaching my goal of 30 lbs lost in a month.. yes, I said 30 lbs lost in a month and I know it's not suggested for health reasons etc.., but I don't really feel bad.

I am doing vlc (20-25 effective carbs) and started with cutting cals down to about 1500 a day and then to around 1200-1300. I am on the last 6 days of the month and still have 7.6 lbs to go.

It all started with a bet I made with my coworker/friend at work. I bet him I could lose 20 for 40 dollars, told him it was just a motivation thing.. he's my buddy so he agreed to help motivate me. I started at about 245. I kept slacking and slacking and ended up with very little time left in the month and then gave up. I convinced him to renew the bet and he insisted that this time it will be for 80 and whatever I need to reach 220. I started on the 26th of Sept with a weight of 248.4 lbs. As of this morning I am at 225 lbs. I am making my personal goal to reach and pass the goal and hit the 30 lbs lost mark, which would put me at 218.4.

Starting yesterday I have switched to tea or coffee with 2 tbs of coconut oil 3 to 4 times a day and 2-3 cups of bone broth with veggies, but I only drink the broth. Lol, my wife just told me to tell you guys I'm becoming more hunky.. haha! I have lost some serious girth around the waist area.

Still a little woozy and adjusting to the fat fast.

Thank all of you guys for the great responses!
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:30 PM   #12
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I researched this quite a bit and did a carb re-feed last Tuesday. Had spaghetti, garlic bread and a piece of cake for dessert. Got right back on plan the next day and have stayed there since.

Gained 3 pounds of bloat by the next day, to be expected. Then the bloat dropped and bounced a bit, but today I saw the new low number I was looking for. Can't say if it worked or not, because I could bounce up again tomorrow. Will know more in a week or so.

Still---a couple of things to note about re-feeds as per what I've read, and of course this is not gospel as there's all kinds of stuff out there on this and some contradicts what others say. But these things seemed to be said in most articles I read:


1. The theory is that a re-feed stimulates the hormone lectin, which helps us release fat and which is known to go down in long time LC dieting.

2. It's one meal, preferably between 6 and midnight, not an all day carb-a-thon.

3. Best to make the meal carb heavy and not mix it in with a lot of fat.

4. It is NOT the same as carb cycling plans which include carbs as part of an ongoing cycle, like say JUDDD. This is something you do very occasionally and the rule of thumb seems to be the leaner you get the more often it will be beneficial to you. The farther from your goal, the less often you do it.

5. It is imperative that you get right back on plan the next day and drink lots and lots of water to combat the bloat.

For me, it was an interesting experiment. I loved the meal going down but forgot how drowsy and overstuffed carbs make me feel, and just generally crummy. I'd forgotten--- and to think that used to be such a normal part of my life! I had no trouble getting right back on plan, in fact I really wanted to, so that was a NSV.

I also had no increase in appetite from the one re-feed meal, and am pretty sure I was not knocked out of ketosis as although I don't do the stix, I never lost that strong metal mouth and the bad breath---thank heavens for sugarless breath mints.

So for me, the verdict on whether it helps pick up the pace of weight loss is still out. But either way, I'm no worse the wear for the experiment, and in fact learned something important. I really don't want to return to that way of eating as a lifestyle. No way. But the occasional PLANNED treat dinner, yeah. And good to do it under the rules of a re-feed imo, if you're going to do it at all.
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:41 PM   #13
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Experience

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Please come back and let us know how things proceed? Let us know know if you're losing better during the next few weeks especially.

By the way, were you on a stall before you did the refeed? Were you losing regularly? I guess I would like to know whether you start losing at a faster pace after the refeed.

Are you planning to do this on a regular basis? Once a week or more rarely?

If it takes more than 3 days to just drop the bloat is it really worth it? Maybe if you go slower carb like sweet potatoes, berries, fruits or maybe even some potatoes or rice? Anybody think that might make a difference?

I also am a big spaghetti junkie.. fettuccine with alfredo, spaghetti with meat sauce.. oh and don't forget the garlic bread and a glass of wine! Oh yeah and following it up with a slice of cheesecake or slice of blueberry/cherry/rasberry/apple pie.. mmmmm

Can you tell I'm starving lol?

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonosewen View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Please come back and let us know how things proceed? Let us know know if you're losing better during the next few weeks especially.

By the way, were you on a stall before you did the refeed? Were you losing regularly? I guess I would like to know whether you start losing at a faster pace after the refeed.

Are you planning to do this on a regular basis? Once a week or more rarely?

If it takes more than 3 days to just drop the bloat is it really worth it? Maybe if you go slower carb like sweet potatoes, berries, fruits or maybe even some potatoes or rice? Anybody think that might make a difference?

I also am a big spaghetti junkie.. fettuccine with alfredo, spaghetti with meat sauce.. oh and don't forget the garlic bread and a glass of wine! Oh yeah and following it up with a slice of cheesecake or slice of blueberry/cherry/rasberry/apple pie.. mmmmm

Can you tell I'm starving lol?
I don't think you're starving, but I think you may be feeling very deprived. That is I think quite common for those earlier in their LC woe. I can tell you that the longer you do it the more comfortable, in fact great, it gets. The cravings fall off A LOT, but they never completely disappear and you never know when they're going to hit, although I like this acronym as a good clue as to when they might hit---BAST. Bored, anxious, stressed, tired. These are the conditions that usually add to cheats, but I digress.

From what I've read, re-feeds are no instant mix for weight loss. The carbs will absolutely cause water-retention, which shows up on the scale as pounds. Depending on everyone's unique body and chemistry it takes what it takes for this to fall off. As for whether it's worth it to go through without immediate gratification, that's up to each individual. For me I thought it was worth a try.

And yes, I had hit a "mini stall", but not a real stall, which is 6 weeks of no lbs or inches lost according to Atkins, and that's important to note as many are impatient and define a stall incorrectly.

Still my weight loss had slowed down in terms of what's been normal for me for 8 months, which btw, is A LOT slower than you've been losing. You've done great.

No, as I said in my post I don't intend to do this often. I'm still 30 pounds from my goal which according to what I've read, means this should be a very occasional effort. Again, the leaner you are, the closer to your goal, the more beneficial it can be, according to most. Whether this works in the end or not, I don't intend to do it again for a couple of months when I hope I'm yet closer to my goal.

I will say this. I think it is ALWAYS better to plan your treat meals, for whatever reason. To me that's what differentiates a treat from a cheat. Cheats make you feel bad imo, because you are not in control. Treat meals OTOH, are planned and you are in control, not your cravings.

And I don't think there's much difference between potato and rice carbs and pasta carbs. I do think refined sugar is a different thing, and would not do a re-feed based on it. I did have a piece of homemade cake, but largely everything else I ate was whole and home cooked. No packaged crap.

Finally, yeah, meant to write a thread on this when I understand the results better, and figured that would involve at least a two week window. And I will.
Although I may never have any firm answers, in fact I suspect that will be the case because even if a whoosh like a bandit next week, who can say exactly why.

In any case, as I said, for me it was worth experimenting with and it was done for that reason, not because I all of a sudden had to have a treat meal.
I do believe those who can occasionally treat themselves should, as like I said, it shows you a lot about how what you think you're missing so much isn't as wonderful as you remember. But that's just me. Others will have entirely different experiences.

And in the end, that's the thing. I've found that a LC lifestyle, not a LC diet, is all about experimenting with what works for you. If this is just a diet to you, I can almost guarantee you'll fall off the wagon and gain it back. If OTOH, you work w/this woe to find out how to sustain it, including when you need a treat, or want to experiment with a re-feed, and treat it as a learning experience along w/a commitment to a LC lifestyle, you're going to do just fine, in fact, probably better than you ever dreamed.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I've found that a LC lifestyle, not a LC diet, is all about experimenting with what works for you. If this is just a diet to you, I can almost guarantee you'll fall off the wagon and gain it back. If OTOH, you work w/this woe to find out how to sustain it, including when you need a treat, or want to experiment with a re-feed, and treat it as a learning experience along w/a commitment to a LC lifestyle, you're going to do just fine, in fact, probably better than you ever dreamed.
This is a gem and absolutely true.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:18 AM   #16
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As a diabetic, this isn't something I would ever do as it would mess with my diabetic control. I wouldn't recommend it for the true carb addicts who react to a bite of carbs like an alcoholic with alcoholic. One bite and they're off and running and can't stop until they're 'in the gutter'.
Agree with this 100%. Having a high carb day and seeing my blood sugar zoom up close to 200 cannot be healthy, considering that nerve damage starts at around 140.

Also, Phinney/Volek say that if you leave ketosis, it can take two weeks to get back into it. So if you are having a carb day once per week, you will never get back into ketosis.

I wonder if the people who advocate this plan are actually checking their blood ketones to verify that they are actually back in ketosis, or if they are just assuming they are because they are eating low carb.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:49 AM   #17
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Update

Update:

Won the bet! 219.8 on the morning of the 26th. 22/23 days of strict low carb, with some calorie restriction, 7 days of only coconut oil and tea 2/3 times a day and water and hibiscus tea only fast the last day. Lost over 28 lbs in a month. Last 2 days eating lots of carbs, but today back to low carb. I am feeling quite bloated now ::
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:33 AM   #18
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Wow, 2 stone in a month, that's crazy. Did you weigh before the last 2 days to see what damage the carbs did?
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:04 PM   #19
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Wow, 2 stone in a month, that's crazy. Did you weigh before the last 2 days to see what damage the carbs did?
I meant more the last two days from the time of posting the message. I did do low carb until the last day of the 30 days (morning of the 26th) and then after that for a day or two I had an inordinate amount of carbohydrate. I weighed in this morning at 228.6 lbs.

It's back to low carb for me now, but I am seriously fighting cravings tonight.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:40 AM   #20
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9lbs gain in a few days wow.
Care to share a more detailed account of the losses? If I could drop 30lbs I don't care if its healthy, hell, if I could do it in 2 months with the way things are going now I'd do it.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:21 AM   #21
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30 days of weight loss

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9lbs gain in a few days wow.
Care to share a more detailed account of the losses? If I could drop 30lbs I don't care if its healthy, hell, if I could do it in 2 months with the way things are going now I'd do it.
Ok lets see.

I started out at 248.6 I believe on the 26th of Sept. I believe for the first week I ate an avg of 1500 calories (tracked on *********.com) The ratios were typically 5-10% carbs, 10-20% protein, 65-80% fat. For the second two weeks I was nearer to 1200-1300. The last week I had only 2-3 cups of tea with 2-3 tbsp of extra virgin organic coconut oil (trader joes). On the day before the bet was up I had only water and hibiscus tea (jamaica water the hispanics call it) but with nothing added. It is supposed to be a natural diuretic - and it did work. I lost a pound on the last day. In total I lost over 28.8 lbs.

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Old 10-30-2013, 10:47 AM   #22
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Was the majority of the loss the first 2 weeks where you were doing the std low carb, or the last 2 weeks?

What's your meals for the normal low carb bit, I have the same macros and calories, roughly the same weight and am down to losing 1lb a week now.
Been reading some stuff which says that for some people sustained low carbing will stop working a few months down the line. I don't think there have been many studies though, when Atkins was doing his research I don't think people were as overweight as they are now, remember the book initially has you on induction for 2 weeks, I know the book says to do it for longer if neccessary, but is there studies for long term. I imagine this is probably what this carb cycling is about, I should probably read it and stop rambling....
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:54 AM   #23
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Ok, the thing I read went along the lines that you reintroduced enough carbs to not be ketosis, but not excessive amounts or bad carbs and do this for a month or so, youldnt really gain weight like this, but apparently it'll restabilize glycogen stores and other things, then go back to low carb and it should kick start again. Makes sense, kinda, but can't for the life of me find where I read this...
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:55 AM   #24
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.....

For me, it was an interesting experiment. I loved the meal going down but forgot how drowsy and overstuffed carbs make me feel, and just generally crummy. I'd forgotten--- and to think that used to be such a normal part of my life!
................
YES ! ! ...to that!
For that simple reason, keeping low carb is a "feel good plan"
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 84k View Post
Was the majority of the loss the first 2 weeks where you were doing the std low carb, or the last 2 weeks?

What's your meals for the normal low carb bit, I have the same macros and calories, roughly the same weight and am down to losing 1lb a week now.
Been reading some stuff which says that for some people sustained low carbing will stop working a few months down the line. I don't think there have been many studies though, when Atkins was doing his research I don't think people were as overweight as they are now, remember the book initially has you on induction for 2 weeks, I know the book says to do it for longer if neccessary, but is there studies for long term. I imagine this is probably what this carb cycling is about, I should probably read it and stop rambling....
The majority of the loss was most definitely during the first 2 weeks. I believe I lost 20 in the first 2 weeks alone. That of course is the expected result because on any diet and especially on a low carb diet a substantial amount of weight lost in the beginning is water weight. Water weight can come off quite rapidly during the first 2 weeks. I believe Phinney and Volek say that after the first 2 weeks you can be sure that everything you are losing is real bodyweight (primarily fat)

Regarding the carb cycling, I believe it may vary individually. Perhaps you can experiment, but do it carefully. I am now on the 4th day of a carb binge and finding it quite difficult to break out of.

I do believe that for some people it may be the jump start back into weight loss that they need.

Just a thought, but perhaps if you decide to have a carb meal once in a while make it consist more of starches and fruits rather than bread and sugar. I think it may serve better to accomplish what you need and create less damage. By starches I mean sweet potatoes, potatoes, rice, other roots, but not grains, maybe you can even give gluten free pasta a shot.

Also, like someone else here metioned earlier: If you do a carb day/meal first do it infrequently, i.e., not more than once a month, then see how you do with it and increase slowly.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:25 PM   #26
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Diet

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84k View Post
Was the majority of the loss the first 2 weeks where you were doing the std low carb, or the last 2 weeks?

What's your meals for the normal low carb bit, I have the same macros and calories, roughly the same weight and am down to losing 1lb a week now.
Been reading some stuff which says that for some people sustained low carbing will stop working a few months down the line. I don't think there have been many studies though, when Atkins was doing his research I don't think people were as overweight as they are now, remember the book initially has you on induction for 2 weeks, I know the book says to do it for longer if necessary, but is there studies for long term. I imagine this is probably what this carb cycling is about, I should probably read it and stop rambling....
I responded to you earlier, but I wanted to add that if you have any blood sugar control issues, then I would suggest being extra careful with any type of carb cycling.

Are you taking any MCT oil or Coconut Oil daily? If not, consider adding it to your daily intake, because it may have benefits in helping to stabilize blood sugar and facilitates fat burning, particularly in the dangerous middle region.

Also, if you're not doing exercise start doing it - take walks and lift weights or bodyweight. Start out slowly if you have to but do something every day.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:30 AM   #27
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I'm not actually wanting to carb cycle, unless of course its proven to help in a stall. I've been doing this 6 months now and am down 60lbs, I just slowed down this past month, but lost 3.2lbs this past week so it looks like it was just temporary. Some people have better genetics and lose more than others, sounds like you're one of them. I accidentally carb cycled 2 weeks ago and not a lot happened, unless it took 2 weeks for me to adapt again, in which case, I'm now seeing the results.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:00 AM   #28
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I have used calorie counting as my main mode of weight loss and have been successful losing weight on a high carb diet and a low carb diet. Although there were significant differences. For example on the high carb diet I had more issues with hunger and had trouble getting down below a certain number of calories, which was what I needed to get to with my new set of caloric needs after losing significant weight. This would probably also be known as the stall point to people who don't calorie count. In my experience, carb cycling isn't necessary if weight loss is simply your goal. Figuring out what your daily caloric requirement is, how to eat below that, will get the success you need to get to goal.

Carb cycling is more critical for people who need to keep their muscles stocked up with stored glycogen. This group of people are athletes (especially endurance athletes) and body builders. For the average person, deliberate carb cycling isn't really all that important. And for people with metabolic issues, (athletes and body builders often do not fit in this category) carb cycling can be counter productive. How insulin spikes were explained to me is that it is the body's way of getting rid of the excess blood sugar in the blood which can be dangerous. In primal times it was most likely an advantage because they probably experienced times of feast and times of famine. Although they weren't exposed to significant amounts of carbs the way we are in our diet. Their feast was more likely after a significant hunt, in which case insulin spiking was to make use of the excess protein. Carbs in the primal world came through wild plants, which would be more likely grazed upon. Unless you came across a fruit tree or a bee hive, in which case a once in awhile insulin spike was useful. I think the problem in our world is that if you are doing high carb all the time you are constantly experiencing insulin spiking which for some can lead to diabetes eventually.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:45 AM   #29
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Hoonosewen: Your low carb eating was getting you to your goal so there seemed no reason to even try Carb Nite. In your shoes, I wouldn't have. Congratulations on your success.

Blue Skies: You mentioned that the carb load was one meal in a 6 hour window one evening a week....not exactly. The goal is to get your blood sugar elevated and keep it there over the 6 hour period. Kiefer suggests having 2 small high carb meals in that period plus a snack or two. Alternatively, you can just snack all evening long.

I have just started this protocol, without big success so far, but it is early days. I have had two carb nights and dropped only 2 pounds. Since I have not gained I am staying on this course and tweaking it a bit, mostly in the area of how many carbs I eat on Carb Nite.

In Kiefer's theory it works for anyone who wants to drop fat. I will admit it probably works much, much better for weight lifters, and I am sedentary. I'm planning to keep with this for several more cycles while I tweak it. I think I need to adjust the number of carbs I eat on that one night and, unfortunately, there is little advice to be had for persons like myself on that score.

I've been low carbing for 10 years or more and on occasion I have dropped 5 or 10 pounds and then stalled. Any tweaks I did were ineffective. I believe I have done myself a lot of good by cutting out sugar and starch, but weight loss, my goal, was never realized. This is my latest tweak. By the way, I did not find it at all problematic to get back to my ultra LC diet the day after the carb load. By the end of the evening I could hardly bear to eat anything more on the planned list of high carb foods. The next day, the idea of continuing to eat high carb foods was disgusting.
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Started Atkins 2/4/03
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Start Weight-- 165
Re-induct 2/3/08
Reduce carbs & calories 6/28/09
Weight on 9/13/09 151.5 lbs
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:59 PM   #30
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Understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttonwillow View Post
Hoonosewen: Your low carb eating was getting you to your goal so there seemed no reason to even try Carb Nite. In your shoes, I wouldn't have. Congratulations on your success.

Blue Skies: You mentioned that the carb load was one meal in a 6 hour window one evening a week....not exactly. The goal is to get your blood sugar elevated and keep it there over the 6 hour period. Kiefer suggests having 2 small high carb meals in that period plus a snack or two. Alternatively, you can just snack all evening long.

I have just started this protocol, without big success so far, but it is early days. I have had two carb nights and dropped only 2 pounds. Since I have not gained I am staying on this course and tweaking it a bit, mostly in the area of how many carbs I eat on Carb Nite.

In Kiefer's theory it works for anyone who wants to drop fat. I will admit it probably works much, much better for weight lifters, and I am sedentary. I'm planning to keep with this for several more cycles while I tweak it. I think I need to adjust the number of carbs I eat on that one night and, unfortunately, there is little advice to be had for persons like myself on that score.

I've been low carbing for 10 years or more and on occasion I have dropped 5 or 10 pounds and then stalled. Any tweaks I did were ineffective. I believe I have done myself a lot of good by cutting out sugar and starch, but weight loss, my goal, was never realized. This is my latest tweak. By the way, I did not find it at all problematic to get back to my ultra LC diet the day after the carb load. By the end of the evening I could hardly bear to eat anything more on the planned list of high carb foods. The next day, the idea of continuing to eat high carb foods was disgusting.
To be honest I don't completely understand the theory behind carb nite. I understand the general idea that the insulin spike is needed for various reasons. The idea is that the insulin spike triggers a bunch of mechanisms that end up benefiting us in terms of weight loss.

I mean how would it work in terms of our ancestors? How would we have adapted to be that way? Why would they need a carb nite to have their system work properly?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am quite sure that there were literally thousands of years where access to carbohydrate was slim to none. In my understanding our ancestors lived through thousands of years of ice ages where they must have been highly dependent on animal proteins and fats, if not always then at least for many months of the year.

Perhaps there are some other factors in play here; maybe something that I don't know of?

Last edited by Hoonosewen; 11-10-2013 at 11:02 PM..
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