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Old 08-14-2013, 05:48 AM   #1
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I need advice

I think I'm going to try zero carb. To be honest, I don't think i've been in ketosis since my vacation in june. I have been eating almost 30 carbs a day, half from veggies, half from dairy. That's too much for me. I don't lose weight unless I keep it under 15 a day. At that point, I may as well go for broke and keep carbs as low as possible.

Aaaand, I think I may have to give up dairy. sniff. I can work it back in on maintainance, but I don't think it works for me in the weight loss phases.

on the upside, I think that I have been rather silly with the obsessive counting of calories. I'm not saying that they don't matter, but whether I count them or not I eat the same amount: 1800-2200 cals, a little more on days that I do resistance. If im not going to be able to adjust the amount I eat bc I can't stand to go hungry, why am I counting them again? Plus, I think I lose more weight when I pay closer attention to macros than calories (high fat, slightly less protein, vlc).

I guess Im at a loss-I'm looking for that same appitite suppression, ketosis feeling that I had when I went low carb before, and I dont get it unless I eat practicaly no carbs. Even veggies make me want to eat more.

I am losing weight, but it is glacialy slow. I know that any loss is good loss, but its taken me eleven months to lose 40 lbs.

Here is my menu for today:

Breakfast: coffee with 1 tbs plus 1 tsp coconut oil and splenda (Im giving up AS too, I'm just working my way down)

Lunch: Boneless skinless chicken breast cooked in butter.

Supper either pork chops fried in butter or leftover pork roast from the freezer. Butter for desert. or maybe decaf coffee with CO.

And does anyone know how many carbs I need to account for in my use of spices? Its to much of a pain to go count the carbs per spice, I usually assume one carb for the day. Is that enough?
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:19 AM   #2
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Butter is dairy and can stall people. Why not just buy chicken with the skin and get your fat from there?
I think there is a meat and egg thread in the diet plan section.
Most zc people try to eat fattier cuts of meat.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:01 AM   #3
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Too much protein can interfere with ketosis.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:33 AM   #4
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You're changing a lot at once:
giving up dairy
giving up artificial sweeteners
going near zero carbs
pating attention to getting higher fat/slightly less protein

You say you seek the appetite supression you once found. I agree that the answer is found in one of your ideas above, but it's hard to say which one(s) it is. My suggestion is to eliminate/alter one questionable food (or food group) at a time-- cut dairy for a week. Or switch sweeteners. Or up your fat while getting moderate protein.

For your question about carbs in spices, here's a start:

Per TBL:
cinnamon = 1.7 net carbs
nutmeg = 2.0 net carbs
vanilla extract = 1.6 net carbs
imitation vanilla extract = 0.3 net carbs
black pepper = 2.4 net carbs
white pepper = 3.0 net carbs
curry powder = 1.6 net carbs
paprika = 1.2 net carbs
cloves = 1.7 net carbs
pumpkin pie spice = 3.1 net carbs
ginger ground = 3.1 net carbs
garlic powder = 5.3 net carbs
clove of garlic = 1 net carb
ground all spice = 3.0 net carbs
cardamom ground = 2.4 net carbs
mace ground = 1.6 net carbs
onion powder = 5.2 net carbs
cayenne pepper = 1.6 net carbs
poultry seasoning = 2.0 net carb
ground thyme = 1.1 net carbs
ground tarragon = 2.0 net carbs
ground sage = 0.4 net carbs
poppyseeds = 1.2 net carbs
ground cumin = 2.1 net carbs
fresh pepperment = 0.2 net carbs
dried spearment = 0.3 net carbs
dried basil = 0.9 net carbs
caraway seed= 0.8 net carbs
corriander = 0.6 net carbs
ground oregano= 0.4 net carbs
fennel seed = 0.7 net carbs
dried parsley = 0.3 net carbs
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Too much protein can interfere with ketosis.
I know-but I never eat more than 100g of protein a day. Usually, it's between 80 and 90g.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by suzanneyea View Post
Butter is dairy and can stall people. Why not just buy chicken with the skin and get your fat from there?
I think there is a meat and egg thread in the diet plan section.
Most zc people try to eat fattier cuts of meat.
Yeah- that is a point. I ignore it bc I love butter so much. Grrrr....
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #7
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Jackie, I know some folks who can use clarified butter (ghee), but not regular butter. I find that Kerrygold sits better with me than the regular grocery store brands. Kerrygold, AFAIK, is pastured and cultured. Can you eat egg yolks and offal, so that you get nutrients that aren't there or aren't as plentiful in muscle meat?

I agree about switching artificial sweeteners, or trying different brands.

I find that pastured meat and meat fat is more satisfying and satiating than the regular, grain-fed, factory farm meats. Also, only using cuts of meat which I cook myself, helps me (no cold cuts, bacons, etc.) I eat less when I use pastured meats and fats.

I often buy grass-fed soup bones or marrow bones, and cook those in the crock pot with vinegar and a pinch of sea salt, then use that fat with lean cuts of the best grain-fed meats I can get. That is less expensive than always buying pastured meats. Making broth is key for me in feeling really good on my food plan.

I wish you happy success.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
You're changing a lot at once:
giving up dairy
giving up artificial sweeteners
going near zero carbs
pating attention to getting higher fat/slightly less protein

You say you seek the appetite supression you once found. I agree that the answer is found in one of your ideas above, but it's hard to say which one(s) it is. My suggestion is to eliminate/alter one questionable food (or food group) at a time-- cut dairy for a week. Or switch sweeteners. Or up your fat while getting moderate protein.

For your question about carbs in spices, here's a start:

Per TBL:
cinnamon = 1.7 net carbs
nutmeg = 2.0 net carbs
vanilla extract = 1.6 net carbs
imitation vanilla extract = 0.3 net carbs
black pepper = 2.4 net carbs
white pepper = 3.0 net carbs
curry powder = 1.6 net carbs
paprika = 1.2 net carbs
cloves = 1.7 net carbs
pumpkin pie spice = 3.1 net carbs
ginger ground = 3.1 net carbs
garlic powder = 5.3 net carbs
clove of garlic = 1 net carb
ground all spice = 3.0 net carbs
cardamom ground = 2.4 net carbs
mace ground = 1.6 net carbs
onion powder = 5.2 net carbs
cayenne pepper = 1.6 net carbs
poultry seasoning = 2.0 net carb
ground thyme = 1.1 net carbs
ground tarragon = 2.0 net carbs
ground sage = 0.4 net carbs
poppyseeds = 1.2 net carbs
ground cumin = 2.1 net carbs
fresh pepperment = 0.2 net carbs
dried spearment = 0.3 net carbs
dried basil = 0.9 net carbs
caraway seed= 0.8 net carbs
corriander = 0.6 net carbs
ground oregano= 0.4 net carbs
fennel seed = 0.7 net carbs
dried parsley = 0.3 net carbs
Thanks, emel. I know what you mean about changing too much at once. I guess I just think that it's an all or nothing situation, psychologically. I don't think I can give up just dairy, or just broccoli, but I might be able to do it if I give up everything at once. I know myself, and my will is weAk. I might add
Things in one at a time, later. Right now I'm just going with what I know I can do.

As for the spice list, I appreciate it. Forgot how many carbs were in garlic powder- I might have to up my count for spices to three a day. I use about a tablespoon total spice per day, but I use a lot of garlic. Thanks for everything!
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:38 PM   #9
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I am an all or nothing person too. I am mostly zc, but now I realize I am able to eat off plan and it is fine. But, when I first started I had to stay strict zc to stop my binging.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzanneyea View Post
I am an all or nothing person too. I am mostly zc, but now I realize I am able to eat off plan and it is fine. But, when I first started I had to stay strict zc to stop my binging.
Yeah- that's me too. If I start eating too much, or eating the wrong things, my only hope is to cut way back immediately, or one cheat meal will turn into six cheat months. I may have to ease up a little, though because this afternoon I discovered egg creams. They don't really need cream ( I made them with just egg, seltzer and dark cocoa), but they do need AS. Can I ask, do you use AS?
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:04 PM   #11
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You might try flavorless oil shots of MCT oil and unsalted butter (move the fat from the meals out to the shots). This creates appetite suppression.

I've had great luck with this. The thread is in the paleolithic area of the diet plan types.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #12
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I would stop the egg creams for now. You will be able to have them in future, but you sound like you want and need to get your cravings under control. I do not have any sweeteners. But, yesterday I had some of my baby's oopsie roll and that had cinnamon and splenda. I also had diet ginger ale earlier this week. But, I have been at this ten years. Either of those things would have derailed me in my first year.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:17 AM   #13
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I am updating to say: I have realized that I have an anoying habit of asking for advice and then not taking it, even when it is sound advice. I need to stop doing that, so while I don't think I have completely taken anyones advice in this thread I have taken away pieces from everyone. I have tried to stop and evaluate what I might be doing wrong, and what has worked over the past year, to see what I might change to maximize weight loss and still achieve a livable plan. After being brutaly honest with myself, I think that I have two major problems that I've been in denial about.

1: Carb creep. Seriously. I made myself sit down and actualy try to track the amout of TOTAL carbs that I've been eating, and I came up with something like sixty grams a day. Thats way too much for me. When I was younger and in better shape, I could do thirty or so net carbs and still lose weight. Not anymore. Between overeating cheese and buying cheap powdered sucralose to save money, telling myself I will mesure it and ending up free pouring it, the carbs mount up astronomicaly. And I've been eating up to 14 oz of full fat fage yogurt a day, after telling myself I will only eat 7 oz, yada yada yada. I don't thing its the veggies that are doing it to me. I think its the homeade low carb "treats."

2: diet soda. I went from not drinking it at all to drinking about four glasses on average of caffeine free diet pepsi a day. I justified it by telling myself that diet soda never stalled me before.......but that was before. And I really think that it revs up my appetite-I spent four days last week without it and my appetite was fine. I spent yesterday drinking diet soda, and I could not stop eating.

All that being said, I have a game plan for tightening it up. I don't know if it would be considered zero carb, but its definitely very low carb.

I intend to count every carb I eat. That includes fiber. It also includes erythritol and sorbital (I only use sorbital in recipies, one tbs at a time). It also includes hidden carbs in mustard. If it isn't 100% animal, I count the carbs (and sometimes when it is-shellfish, people )

My total carbs will not go over 25 grams a day, and I will try to keep them under 20. I think I have been cutting myself too short with 15, and always going over by up to five on good days, which gives me leeway to go over by 25 on bad days. To this end, while I don't know that I am limiting any new foods other than diet soda, I don't think I will be eating very many veggies, if any.

I will eat up to three teaspoons of Truvia per day. I have not had any problem limiting it like I do Splenda. With Splenda, It never gets sweet enough so I always add more. While Truvia has problems mixing in cold drinks, it is crazy sweet, and doesn't seem to cause me to want to eat more food, or want more sweetener. I went looking for liquid, zero carb sweeteners and lo and behold, my local Wal-Mart no longer carries them. I simply cannot afford to order them online-we just got off of furlough. In the end, i think it may be a good thing-if I think something is zero carb but it doesn't have any substance to it (like fat or protein) I might be tempted to use it too much. And while the sweeteners that I use may be zero carb, the things i'm sweetening are usually not. Cream cheese and yogurt come to mind. I assume 10 carbs for the sweetener-that means everything else is going to come under 15.

I will not be eating cheese-I don't think dairy actually stalls me, but the carbs add up too quickly and I inevitably eat too much of it. I will limit my dairy to up to three tbs hwc a day, notably in my egg cream that I eat for desert. Only one egg cream by the way-which I haven't had a problem sticking to.

I think I will try this for two weeks, starting today. I had good results with the mini trial last week, so here's hoping.

And my thanks to everyone, so much, for your advice. I could not have kept this up without feedback. Even when I don't post much, I read the boards every day and I always learn things that help me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:23 AM   #14
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Hi Jackie, I can not do high fat and am wondering if this is your problem. . . butter and cheese make me gain or stall. I do Stillman's and it is no carb, no fat on the Quick Weight Loss Stillman's. Why not come over to the Stillman's page and check us out?
A few of us are on "How much can I lose in 21 Days?" How much can I loose in 21 days? Here are my results since starting. . .

Day 24 ~ 11 lbs gone!

On July 19, I weighed 175, now I am 21lbs. thinner and stable!!

ONLY ON STILLMAN'S FOR 22 DAYS.

07.28.13 ~ 165
07.29.13 ~ 163
07.30.13 ~ 163
07.31.13 ~ 162
08.01.13 ~ 161
08.02.13 ~ 160
08.03.13 ~ 160
08.04.13 ~ 159
08.05.13 ~ 159
08.06.13 ~ 160
08.07.13 ~ 160
08.08.13 ~ 160
08.09.13 ~ 158
08.10.13 ~ 157
08.11.13 ~ 157
08.12.13 ~ 157
08.13.13 ~ 157
08.14.13 ~ 155
08.15.13 ~ 154
08.15.13 ~ 154
08.16.13 ~ 153
08.17.13 ~ 153 DAY 21 12 lbs
08.18.13 ~ 153
08.19.13 ~ 153
08.20.13 ~ 154
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40 LB CLUB 1/14/05
50 LB CLUB 5/16/05
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Last edited by idioglossic; 08-20-2013 at 05:25 AM..
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idioglossic View Post
Hi Jackie, I can not do high fat and am wondering if this is your problem. . . butter and cheese make me gain or stall. I do Stillman's and it is no carb, no fat on the Quick Weight Loss Stillman's. Why not come over to the Stillman's page and check us out?
A few of us are on "How much can I lose in 21 Days?" How much can I loose in 21 days? Here are my results since starting. . .

Day 24 ~ 11 lbs gone!

On July 19, I weighed 175, now I am 21lbs. thinner and stable!!

ONLY ON STILLMAN'S FOR 22 DAYS.

07.28.13 ~ 165
07.29.13 ~ 163
07.30.13 ~ 163
07.31.13 ~ 162
08.01.13 ~ 161
08.02.13 ~ 160
08.03.13 ~ 160
08.04.13 ~ 159
08.05.13 ~ 159
08.06.13 ~ 160
08.07.13 ~ 160
08.08.13 ~ 160
08.09.13 ~ 158
08.10.13 ~ 157
08.11.13 ~ 157
08.12.13 ~ 157
08.13.13 ~ 157
08.14.13 ~ 155
08.15.13 ~ 154
08.15.13 ~ 154
08.16.13 ~ 153
08.17.13 ~ 153 DAY 21 12 lbs
08.18.13 ~ 153
08.19.13 ~ 153
08.20.13 ~ 154
Hi-I will def check it out! I don't know if fat is my problem, but it is worth looking into.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jackie123 View Post
I will eat up to three teaspoons of Truvia per day. I have not had any problem limiting it like I do Splenda. With Splenda, It never gets sweet enough so I always add more. While Truvia has problems mixing in cold drinks, it is crazy sweet, and doesn't seem to cause me to want to eat more food, or want more sweetener. .
It's crazy sweet but it also has more carbs. Splenda is like half a carb per tsp. and Truvia is 3 carbs per 3/4 of a tsp. So if you're using 3 tsp a day, count 12 carbs.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:19 PM   #17
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It's crazy sweet but it also has more carbs. Splenda is like half a carb per tsp. and Truvia is 3 carbs per 3/4 of a tsp. So if you're using 3 tsp a day, count 12 carbs.
Yep. You are so right. I think I was counting it as three per tsp. Thank you for catching that.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:43 PM   #18
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I like your analysis, Jackie. I eat full fat yogurt but in much smaller quanties (a couple of ounces) just a couple of times a week. That might be something to consider. I consider it "medicinal" to keep my insides well functioning. I would say ditch the AS, if you are able - and it seems you are so inclined -- as I can't imagine it does anything good for you.

Thanks Emel for the carb counts of spices! I've cut and saved.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie123 View Post
I am updating to say: I have realized that I have an anoying habit of asking for advice and then not taking it, even when it is sound advice. I need to stop doing that, so while I don't think I have completely taken anyones advice in this thread I have taken away pieces from everyone. I have tried to stop and evaluate what I might be doing wrong, and what has worked over the past year, to see what I might change to maximize weight loss and still achieve a livable plan. After being brutaly honest with myself, I think that I have two major problems that I've been in denial about.

1: Carb creep. Seriously. I made myself sit down and actualy try to track the amout of TOTAL carbs that I've been eating, and I came up with something like sixty grams a day. Thats way too much for me. When I was younger and in better shape, I could do thirty or so net carbs and still lose weight. Not anymore. Between overeating cheese and buying cheap powdered sucralose to save money, telling myself I will mesure it and ending up free pouring it, the carbs mount up astronomicaly. And I've been eating up to 14 oz of full fat fage yogurt a day, after telling myself I will only eat 7 oz, yada yada yada. I don't thing its the veggies that are doing it to me. I think its the homeade low carb "treats."

2: diet soda. I went from not drinking it at all to drinking about four glasses on average of caffeine free diet pepsi a day. I justified it by telling myself that diet soda never stalled me before.......but that was before. And I really think that it revs up my appetite-I spent four days last week without it and my appetite was fine. I spent yesterday drinking diet soda, and I could not stop eating.

All that being said, I have a game plan for tightening it up. I don't know if it would be considered zero carb, but its definitely very low carb.

I intend to count every carb I eat. That includes fiber. It also includes erythritol and sorbital (I only use sorbital in recipies, one tbs at a time). It also includes hidden carbs in mustard. If it isn't 100% animal, I count the carbs (and sometimes when it is-shellfish, people )

My total carbs will not go over 25 grams a day, and I will try to keep them under 20. I think I have been cutting myself too short with 15, and always going over by up to five on good days, which gives me leeway to go over by 25 on bad days. To this end, while I don't know that I am limiting any new foods other than diet soda, I don't think I will be eating very many veggies, if any.

I will eat up to three teaspoons of Truvia per day. I have not had any problem limiting it like I do Splenda. With Splenda, It never gets sweet enough so I always add more. While Truvia has problems mixing in cold drinks, it is crazy sweet, and doesn't seem to cause me to want to eat more food, or want more sweetener. I went looking for liquid, zero carb sweeteners and lo and behold, my local Wal-Mart no longer carries them. I simply cannot afford to order them online-we just got off of furlough. In the end, i think it may be a good thing-if I think something is zero carb but it doesn't have any substance to it (like fat or protein) I might be tempted to use it too much. And while the sweeteners that I use may be zero carb, the things i'm sweetening are usually not. Cream cheese and yogurt come to mind. I assume 10 carbs for the sweetener-that means everything else is going to come under 15.

I will not be eating cheese-I don't think dairy actually stalls me, but the carbs add up too quickly and I inevitably eat too much of it. I will limit my dairy to up to three tbs hwc a day, notably in my egg cream that I eat for desert. Only one egg cream by the way-which I haven't had a problem sticking to.

I think I will try this for two weeks, starting today. I had good results with the mini trial last week, so here's hoping.

And my thanks to everyone, so much, for your advice. I could not have kept this up without feedback. Even when I don't post much, I read the boards every day and I always learn things that help me.
This sounds entirely sensible to me.
I like that you've identified the carb creep. That could be your culprit.
So you're looking at sucralose packets, homemade treats, cheese, yogurt, diet soda, and truvia. You'll allow 3 Tbl heavy cream as egg cream, which you have no trouble limiting.

I understand your concerns about budgeting. When you can, try to get a liquid sweetener to use. Dollar Tree sells a sugar free syrup called Cafe al Fresco. It isn't as potent as the name brand syrups but still there's far less filler than any of the powdered stuff. Double check that you get the sugar free kind because they also make a sugared kind. I find that a tbl of the syrup is about the same amount of sweetness as a packet of powdered stuff.

Is yogurt a trigger food for you, or are you eating a second portion because it is convenient? If it's a trigger food, you should steer clear for now, and choose a substitute, such as veggie strips with a full fat ranch dressing or a couple of devilled eggs. If it's the convenience factor, consider devoting 15 min after dinner to prep out some go-to, portable foods---veg strips and dip, or boil up some eggs or make a batch of tuna or chicken salad (if you use canned chicken, rinse it--- it's crazy salty! Salt is good, but that stuff is too salty for me and I love salt.)
And if you don't want to make devilled eggs, just hardboiled egg cut in half with salt and a squirt of mustard is good. Or dab a couple pieces of deli meat or cold leftover meat with mustard or mayo or both, top with chopped or sliced boiled egg (and maybe a thin strip of dill pickle) and roll it up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aomiel View Post
It's crazy sweet but it also has more carbs. Splenda is like half a carb per tsp. and Truvia is 3 carbs per 3/4 of a tsp. So if you're using 3 tsp a day, count 12 carbs.
The carbs come from the erythritol used as sweetener. It's a sugar alcohol, but I've read that only 25% of its carbs get absorbed. I'd much rather use truvia than sorbitol or malitol, which I think I personally have trouble with (YMMV)
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:16 AM   #20
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WOE: Lotsa veggies and LC
zero carbs means no veggies.
Personally I couldn't do that, but YMMV.
Just be careful to get enough nutrition.
Good luck.
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