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Old 08-09-2013, 08:56 PM   #1
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Is it possible Keto/lowcarb is not for me? Help

I am struggling today. Very depressed, cranky and hungry.
Going into 8 weeks with less than a 7 pound loss.

I lost about 60 pounds with low cal and my own way.. It worked for me, I was kinda hungry , but I managed it with low cal snacks. I would eat low carb and low calorie during the week with soup with protein only, then weekends I could eat what ever I wanted.
It worked.

I got lazy and bored and stopped, gained 10 pounds back. I came back here. But I am not losing . I think I eat too much and guess what. I never have appetite suppression, lost the desire to eat ect I am maintaining with this WOE, not losing.
In fact fat makes me hungrier. I want to eat all the time on this woe. I feel like a failure right now, crying all of the time. I am making my husband nuts.
He says to change my diet.

It is possible this is not for me, but what is? I am obese and not losing, I feel so low.
My question is how do I change to low cal , carbs without gaining more? I think I am done with this. I want to see my body change and it isn't and I try hard. Maybe not hard enough?

I think I will do soup again, I made soup with chicken breasts and veggies and ate only that 5 days a week and the weight came off. I stilll drank wine, ate carbs on off days and never felt deprived.

I feel Keto and low carb is healthy, but my mood swings are all over the place and I feel like a failure.
I am scared , so scared nothing will work and I will be fat forever.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #2
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I want to add, this is my fault. I used this diet to eat more. I thought I could do that and lose. I was wrong and stupid.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:10 PM   #3
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It sounds to me like you answered your own question. If this WOE makes you feel horrible, and you had a WOE that was working that wasn't making you feel crazy, it seems to me that you should go back to the other plan. No plan is right for everyone. Good luck and I hope you figure things out.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:12 PM   #4
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Can you tell us what you've been eating? I feel like this woe should be good for anyone who has a significant amount of weight to lose, but I've only walked in my shoes, yk? But it is hard for me to believe that anyone who wants to lose more than 100 pounds has not been having problems with insulin and carbs. And I do think it's a very healthy way to eat.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:17 PM   #5
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Hi,

I have bacon and eggs almost daily. 2 eggs, 4 pieces of bacon
Rib eye or some kind of meat, chicken wings..ect
I have a salad with 2 tablespoons of dressing. A veggie with a pat of butter
2 coffee's with one ounce of cream a day.
I was over eating cheese, so I stopped for a few days. I was eating 6 ounces on some days
I have bunless baconators with no katsup a lot, with a side salad.
I would run my calories and I averaged about 1600-2200 per day depending on added fats.

I am on medication for depression and it makes it very hard to lose weight.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:24 PM   #6
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Well, I can't say, but I am 11 weeks in with only 9 pounds lost.... But I a m happy because all of my blood numbers are so much better... I mean incredibly so much better.... So maybe you are in better health than before.... I have also lost a whole lot of inches and dropped a shirt size..... As all the people here tell me, it isn't only about weight loss.

In any case, I wish you the best.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:29 PM   #7
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Well, crud, I wonder if its the meds. That sounds like pretty clean eating. I think it's possible that the higher end of your calorie range is too high, but I doubt the lower end would be.

I don't lose on basic low carb, at all. Even with months at <20 grams a day, I didn't lose. I ended up having to go to about 12 g carbs or less and limit my protein, too. But it seems like when I do that I can have practically unlimited quantities of HWC. I do feel like this *really* works for me in a way that low calorie or low fat eating would not. So, obviously, I don't know if it would work for you, or if you'd want to do it if it did.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:36 PM   #8
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Today I had a bunless baconator
pork chops with sauteed peppers, onion and mushrooms.
I am trying to add veggies, most days I eat none!

I am wondering if all of the fat is hindering me. I stopped the coconut oil in my coffee and the added fat.

I think my calories are too high to be honest. My activity level is very low.
Weird thing is this WOE makes me hungrier than before. That is what confuses me.

Oh one day I went to dinner and ate a fillet and steamed veggies, no fat and I felt like I had no desire to eat.
Is it possible that fat is making me hungry? Am I the only one? I know it is supposed to suppress, but I can way overeat fat and consume lots of calories.
I can eat 4 avacadoes..ect.

Maybe lower fat is better, anyone experience this?

Ty to all that replied. You are all a success for sticking in there.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:55 AM   #9
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niciK I can not eat carbs or fats and have to watch salt as it makes me hold water.

Here is a copy of my post on a Stillman's Challenge to see how much we can lose in 21 days. It explains results.

Day 14 ~ 8 lbs gone!

I love how Stillman's works. I am wearing shorts today that I could not button earlier this week. Yes today Saturday I have on another pair I could not button last weekend!!

On July 19, I weighed 175, so on August 10, 22 days later I am 18lbs. thinner and stable!!

How much can I loose in 21 days?

07.28.13 ~ 165
07.29.13 ~ 163
07.30.13 ~ 163
07.31.13 ~ 162
08.01.13 ~ 161
08.02.13 ~ 160
08.03.13 ~ 160
08.04.13 ~ 159
08.05.13 ~ 159
08.06.13 ~ 160
08.07.13 ~ 160
08.08.13 ~ 160
08.09.13 ~ 158
08.10.13 ~ 157
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:47 AM   #10
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I'd second the suggestion that you look into Stillman's to get you started at least.

Some 'older' women are known to have problems metabolizing fat, and it may extend to some younger women as well. Personally, fat makes me hungry; protein is satiating.

When I first started losing, I was having some problems (I'm post-menopausal and hypothyroid), and I tried Dr. Atkins' fat fast to get myself into ketosis.
It was a disaster. I felt terrible, and I was constantly hungry. The fat fast limits calories, and I had difficulty staying within the 1,000 cal limits, but I can easily eat less than 500 cal if it's just protein.

We all have to find what works for us. I didn't use Stillman's plan exactly, but I lost all my weight eating low carb, lower fat. That works best for my body apparently.

We have to find what works best for each of us individually, so you may want to experiment a little. I believe that for those of us who achieved very high weight, carbs are the problem, and limiting them is essential, but I didn't get any total appetite suppression. Low carb just takes the 'edge' off my appetite, but that's enough for me to manage to stay within my limits.

Good luck in finding the right WOE for yourself.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:15 AM   #11
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I am sorry you are struggling. It seems to me that you may be overeating protein and that may be keeping you out of ketosis. Have you considered the Atkins fat fast?

I also wonder if you have had your thyroid checked out recently. That too can be a major factor.

Hope you find the answers you are looking for.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:54 AM   #12
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Eating a lot of fat doesn't work for everyone. I get what you are saying- protein also keeps me full, and fat does nothing for me and too much can make me feel ill.

Your chicken and veggie soup days sound great. I can make a big pot of soup and eat that for days and I think that's healthier than trying to push a lot of fat without any vegetables. Do whatever you feel best on. Low carb with lots of fat doesn't work for everyone- many stall and never get to goal and have a hard time staying on plan.

How about making up a big pot of soup and eating that over the weekend? If you feel better on Monday then you have your answer.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:56 AM   #13
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To me, it sounds like you have a volume issue. As in, you need more of it.

What do we know?
- on a high fat, low residue diet you are hungry regardless of the amount of fat
- when you eat chicken veggie soup- no hunger
- fillets + steamed veggies- no hunger
- most days, you eat no veggies

Before ditching LC, you need to tweak it to make sure it's not for you.
Eat veggies every day. At least 2 cups raw and a cup cooked.

You should not be hungry.

If you are hungry at a non mealtime- try celery sticks with a couple T full fat dressing .
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niciK View Post
I want to add, this is my fault. I used this diet to eat more. I thought I could do that and lose. I was wrong and stupid.
Please don't beat yourself up. There is nothing stupid about experimenting with finding a good way to get healthy. Good for you for trying something different, and for realizing that you still need some adjustments to make your eating plan work for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolcjunk View Post
Eating a lot of fat doesn't work for everyone. I get what you are saying- protein also keeps me full, and fat does nothing for me and too much can make me feel ill.

Your chicken and veggie soup days sound great. I can make a big pot of soup and eat that for days and I think that's healthier than trying to push a lot of fat without any vegetables. Do whatever you feel best on. Low carb with lots of fat doesn't work for everyone- many stall and never get to goal and have a hard time staying on plan.

How about making up a big pot of soup and eating that over the weekend? If you feel better on Monday then you have your answer.
I agree about the soup days sounding great. If you feel well doing that some days, I think it's a terrific plan as long as you're getting enough food and protein to stay well.

Maybe you could have some soup days and then some lowish carb days for a different style of eating (not the 'free-from' induction, but some other lower to moderate carb plan) a couple days a week.

JUDDD folks, does your program have any resources which might help Nici's situation? Like counting her soup as a down day and then designing reasonable up days for her weekends?
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Last edited by emel; 08-10-2013 at 08:08 AM..
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:18 AM   #15
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Intermittent Fasting (like juddd) may be the answer for you since it can really help with hunger issues, once the hormones kick in to suppress appetite.
I am in your boat. Fat doesn't satiate me, and salty foods make me feel like I'm starving! I don't condone low salt (unless there's a medical reason for it), but certain foods (processed meats, cheeses, some salad dressings, etc) I have to watch amounts on, for that reason.
Here are a few links that might give you some ideas about IF:
Benefits of Alternate Day Fasting/CRON
WHAT IS JUDDD? COME INSIDE AND SEE!!
5:2/Fast Diet
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:05 AM   #16
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Thank you all! Someone understands!

I did stillmans years ago and lost so much weight , very quick.

I am glad to see fat makes other people want to eat more. I felt like I was crazy and all alone.

Ok, weighed myself and down one and a half pounds. But that is probably from dehydration and I have not been drinking my fluids and maybe the no cheese days?
Last night , after my crying fest . I could not sleep at all. I was worried to go back to eating Fiber one bars, popcorn, junk really....

I am going to look back into Stillmans, Judd, and also my soup! I will be asking a few of you questions if you don't mind.
But for now I know that fat most days really makes me want to eat more and super hungry and protein does not. That is a start.

Ty all. I may have to come up with my own plan. .....
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:14 AM   #17
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You need to give yourself a huge pat on the back for sticking with it and trying to tailor the right plan for you instead of running for the hills!

There are loads of people who come on, post a "why am I not losing" thread, and are never heard from again.

When you look it as a lifelong path to wellness instead of a crash diet , it's easier to persevere and not get discouraged! If you need to get someone to hide the scale for awhile, do it. You'll know when you've hit your stride because the cravings will be gone, the appetite will be low, and you'll just feel all-around better!
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idioglossic View Post
niciK I can not eat carbs or fats and have to watch salt as it makes me hold water.

Here is a copy of my post on a Stillman's Challenge to see how much we can lose in 21 days. It explains results.

Day 14 ~ 8 lbs gone!

I love how Stillman's works. I am wearing shorts today that I could not button earlier this week. Yes today Saturday I have on another pair I could not button last weekend!!

On July 19, I weighed 175, so on August 10, 22 days later I am 18lbs. thinner and stable!!

How much can I loose in 21 days?

07.28.13 ~ 165
07.29.13 ~ 163
07.30.13 ~ 163
07.31.13 ~ 162
08.01.13 ~ 161
08.02.13 ~ 160
08.03.13 ~ 160
08.04.13 ~ 159
08.05.13 ~ 159
08.06.13 ~ 160
08.07.13 ~ 160
08.08.13 ~ 160
08.09.13 ~ 158
08.10.13 ~ 157

I can not multiquote, so forgive me.
WOW, great loss! I do remember posting on stillmans . I will pop over .
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolcjunk View Post
Eating a lot of fat doesn't work for everyone. I get what you are saying- protein also keeps me full, and fat does nothing for me and too much can make me feel ill.

Your chicken and veggie soup days sound great. I can make a big pot of soup and eat that for days and I think that's healthier than trying to push a lot of fat without any vegetables. Do whatever you feel best on. Low carb with lots of fat doesn't work for everyone- many stall and never get to goal and have a hard time staying on plan.

How about making up a big pot of soup and eating that over the weekend? If you feel better on Monday then you have your answer.

This is my plan. I am going to do this Sunday- Tuesday and see what happens. TY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalia View Post
To me, it sounds like you have a volume issue. As in, you need more of it.

What do we know?
- on a high fat, low residue diet you are hungry regardless of the amount of fat
- when you eat chicken veggie soup- no hunger
- fillets + steamed veggies- no hunger
- most days, you eat no veggies

Before ditching LC, you need to tweak it to make sure it's not for you.
Eat veggies every day. At least 2 cups raw and a cup cooked.

You should not be hungry.

If you are hungry at a non mealtime- try celery sticks with a couple T full fat dressing .
TY, Yes I have figured out fat is not limiting for myself . I want more of it, almost like carbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
Please don't beat yourself up. There is nothing stupid about experimenting with finding a good way to get healthy. Good for you for trying something different, and for realizing that you still need some adjustments to make your eating plan work for you.



I agree about the soup days sounding great. If you feel well doing that some days, I think it's a terrific plan as long as you're getting enough food and protein to stay well.

Maybe you could have some soup days and then some lowish carb days for a different style of eating (not the 'free-from' induction, but some other lower to moderate carb plan) a couple days a week.

JUDDD folks, does your program have any resources which might help Nici's situation? Like counting her soup as a down day and then designing reasonable up days for her weekends?

TY, responded in PM )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
Intermittent Fasting (like juddd) may be the answer for you since it can really help with hunger issues, once the hormones kick in to suppress appetite.
I am in your boat. Fat doesn't satiate me, and salty foods make me feel like I'm starving! I don't condone low salt (unless there's a medical reason for it), but certain foods (processed meats, cheeses, some salad dressings, etc) I have to watch amounts on, for that reason.
Here are a few links that might give you some ideas about IF:
Benefits of Alternate Day Fasting/CRON
WHAT IS JUDDD? COME INSIDE AND SEE!!
5:2/Fast Diet
TY so much Dottie! I will be reading those links. They sound like what I was doing with the soup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalia View Post
You need to give yourself a huge pat on the back for sticking with it and trying to tailor the right plan for you instead of running for the hills!

There are loads of people who come on, post a "why am I not losing" thread, and are never heard from again.

When you look it as a lifelong path to wellness instead of a crash diet , it's easier to persevere and not get discouraged! If you need to get someone to hide the scale for awhile, do it. You'll know when you've hit your stride because the cravings will be gone, the appetite will be low, and you'll just feel all-around better!

Thank you so much. I can't give up. Trust me , I would love to comfort myself in some mexican food and cake, but I know that is not the answer and I will be worse.
My mood swings are so bad lately too. Hormones and all of that. My husband and I talked about seeing a dr, maybe my meds are off or I need some hormone help, thyroid..ect


I really want to thank you to everyone here. I can't talk about this to anyone buy my husband and it gets frustrating when my friends think I just need to starve it off.

My plan so far:
Ok, so today I will eat lowcarb , I have a busy day ahead.

Sunday I am going to do soup for 3 days and see what happens.

Read up on Stillmans and JUDD and come up with my own way of eating.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:20 AM   #20
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Good for you, and who cares if your loss is from water weight or not? A loss is a loss, so claim your victory.

Water weight is part of the process and part of the plan. Rock on, sister.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:35 AM   #21
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Just to chime in, first congratulations on trying to figure out what's working and what isn't. A lot of people just throw up their hands and give up so the fact that you reached out for support and have an open mind about trying new things is a really good sign that you will be successful.

I wanted to add to those who say that piling on the fat doesn't work for everyone. (It does work for many, however.) I certainly eat my share of fat and I don't skimp but I don't go to any lengths to add fat to my diet. Moreover, what seems to make the difference for me in terms of hunger isn't fat, it's making sure I get enough protein and keeping those carbs in check.

If you don't have an intolerance to eggs I'd suggest you try them when you are hungry rather than a fat snack. I think the combination of fat and protein in eggs may be the perfect ratio for appetite suppression.

Anyway, while you're searching around for a new program, take a look at Dr Michael Eades' blog about his program Protein Power. I did Atkins successfully, but I got a lot of insight from Eades and find that I'm now surprisingly doing his maintenance program rather naturally.

The upshot here is that low carb is low carb --- but there are dozens of permutations and there is very likely one that will work for you too. You just have to do the research, think about what is most likely to be the best fit, give your choice a good run to see if it works and you can live with it --- and then move along to a different one if it doesn't. It's the perseverance that counts!

Good luck!

I might also mention that the book "Living Low Carb" by Jonny Bowden is a really great primer on low carb science and has an overview of all the different low carb plans and for whom they work best. I'd recommend it to anyone who's trying to figure out which plan to try.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:00 AM   #22
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and the program Dr Westman endorses on the elusive "page 4" of his clinic's recommendations is simple and to-the-point.

Dr. Westman speaks about No Sugar No Starch

Specifically, post # 10. This plan counts total carbs, not net and includes a couple 'not so bad' additions such as diet ocean spray cranberry juice for breakfast enjoyment.


from post 1 of that thread,
carb master 4 g per serving yogurt, coffeemate in a pinch, and diet ocean spray cranberry 2 g carb/8 oz are examples of foods that aren't on the actual list but are okay as long as you count the carbs. Then he says about the coffee creamer that real foods are better, but that the creamer will do if cream is not available, but watch the hidden sugars/carbs.

from which we can infer that thoughtful inclusion of other good low carb finds is okay as long as the 'rules' of carbs, veggies, etc don't get botched up by including them (meaning don't do a 10 carb product because it means you'd be short on carbs while needing to get your veggies in, if that makes sense). and these are total carbs, so you'd have to make a decision about how you'd handle the high fiber things like flax meal.

Last edited by emel; 08-10-2013 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #23
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Nic,
You aren't alone on fat making you hungrier. I have to keep my fats at roughly 60-65% because if I go over, I start obsessing about food again. I was happiest (no cravings, no hunger, etc.) when my carbs were below 25, my fats no higher than 65% and my protein came in at about 28%.

Saying you used this diet "so you could eat more" sounds like you answered your own question as to why you aren't losing. People give the impression that low carb is an all you can eat buffet if you keep your carbs down, but most of us find that we do have to watch our calories. Now, we lose more at those higher calories than we would on the same calories but higher carb diet, but it's not hard to take it into the 'not gonna lose no way, no how" realm.

During the winter I love to do soup...even on low carb! I just make up some homemade broth and freeze it in 2 cup containers (cuz that's how much soup I'll eat at a meal. Then when I want soup, I just thaw it out, toss in some vegies (cabbage, snow peas, mushrooms, escarole, etc.) and let cook until crisp tender. Throw in some chicken that has been thinly sliced and stir fried (keep it in a container in the fridge). Heat through, sprinkle a bit of toasted sesame oil in and voila. A big bowl of filling soup and I stay below my mealtime carbs and protein!
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:35 AM   #24
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I hope you will look seriously at JUDDD as an option. It's so wonderful because you can use it with any other WOE you want to - low carb, low fat, paleo, NK, whatever!

I hate that you are feeling so low, and beating yourself up. This is NOT your fault. Low carb helped me lose about 55 pounds and then just stopped. I suspect that I was eating too much protein and ketosis was not happening anymore. Possibly also too many calories. That's when I switched to JUDDD (at about 264 - not far from where you are) and it has worked like a charm.

It takes some adjustments, and is a little hard at first, but once you get the appetite suppression going, it is just so freeing. I've completely changed the way I feel about foods, I have FAR FEWER cravings. I can eat pretty much whatever I want, every other day. And the support on the JUDDD boards is fantastic. I just can't sing its praises enough. PM if you'd like more info or to ask me about my experiences with it.

I admire your coming here for help and support and not just giving up. I do wonder if your meds are hindering your efforts. Maybe there's another alternative? You will get this figured out!
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:50 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalia View Post
To me, it sounds like you have a volume issue. As in, you need more of it.

What do we know?
- on a high fat, low residue diet you are hungry regardless of the amount of fat
- when you eat chicken veggie soup- no hunger
- fillets + steamed veggies- no hunger
- most days, you eat no veggies

Before ditching LC, you need to tweak it to make sure it's not for you.
Eat veggies every day. At least 2 cups raw and a cup cooked.

You should not be hungry.

If you are hungry at a non mealtime- try celery sticks with a couple T full fat dressing .
That is a good suggestion. I like to pile low cal steamed veg (raw gives me horrible gas! ) to give volume to a meal. Having said that, LC high fat wasn't for me either. I never felt good on it. I do something closer to South Beach.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:18 PM   #26
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I'm sorry you are struggling 7 lbs lost is not something to be sad about. We may want to lose faster, but, unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.

Many say on LC, calories don't matter. For some of us, they do. Please consider the following:

You mentioned you eat Baconators frequently. A quick check with Wendy's nutritional info page shows that a Baconator without the bun or ketchup has 750 cal and 3 grams of carbs. I would think fast food even without the bun is still fast food and due to additives should probably be limited.

6 oz of cheese is, depending on the kind, around 650 cal in itself, and 3 medium avocados are close to 1,000 cal.

I wouldn't ditch LC just yet.

I would start by finding a good online food journal and using it religiously for a week to track your food. I have found that eyeballing usually greatly underestimates the carbs and volumes of food we ingest.

I have been at LCing for a couple of years now, with many ups and downs. Tweaking things and not losing weight more often than losing. In the past month, I lost 14.4 lbs after a year of not losing. What worked for ME personally, and this is not to say it would for everyone, was the following:

1. I eat over 72% of my calories from fat.
2. I record everything I eat in an online food journal (it is unbelievable how eye-opening that is). Like with the Baconator, I check nutritional info for everything, as well as for hidden carbs.
3. I try to stay below 2500 cal per day (I now weigh close to 300 lbs so that's my RDI). Some days I go as low as 1400, some days I go up to 2500, depends on how hungry I feel. I don't limit myself or starve myself, but recording my food makes me very mindful of what I eat. I especially keep eye on those carbs, and they add up very quickly.
4. I walk at least 10,000 steps a day. I used to be very sedentary and walking at a slow pace has really helped with hunger, depression, mood, insulin resistance, etc.
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Last edited by Eliza_Jazz; 08-10-2013 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:32 PM   #27
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Start Date: 2/21/12- Low carb (199lbs) 3/28/12 JUDDD (189lbs)
I do hope that you will check out JUDDD. It has transformed my health, my weight and my relationship with food. No food is off limits with JUDDD so you can chose which foods you eat and you just stick to your Up Day and Down Day calories.

We have a great group of JUDDD buds and we have tons of fun while losing weight.

You can check out my before and after pics and read some of my JUDDD journey in my journal link in my signature.

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Old 08-10-2013, 08:09 PM   #28
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I say go with whatever works for you, whatever you can stick to. Low carb works for me because I lose all those cravings. I just have no control once I get started eating things like cookies and if I just completely stay away then I don't seem to have any problems saying no. I live in a house FILLED with junk food as I am the only dieter out of a household of 5. I restarted my low carb WOE on June 14th and haven't even had any low-carb tortillas or bars. I'm trying to stay clean with my eating, with no processed foods. Although I do enjoy crystal light and diet sodas so I can't say I'm a health nut You just have to figure out what works for you. It sounds like you were very successful on your previous diet so if you were happy with that why not go back to it?
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:31 PM   #29
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I think that a lot of it could be the medication for depression. I was on Celexa for depression and gained 80 pounds in 8 months, so I googled it and weight gain was a major side effect. So I talked to my doctor and was put on a different medication. I was told by my doctor that it can cause that feeling of never being full as well. If you are depressed all the time, I think that you should definitely address this with your doctor. I know that a diet change can affect mood to some degree, but I personally don't think it should cause that severe of a change.

Having said all that, I have found that I am doing better when I have a moderate amount of carbs compared to 20 grams or less. So if your old way of eating was working better, I would say if it isn't broke then don't fix it. Everyone is different and there is no way of eating that works for everyone whether it is low carb or low calorie.

Take this advice or leave, this is just my personal opinion. I do want to wish you luck, no matter what you choose to do!
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #30
Blabbermouth!!!
 
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Good Luck ! Lots of good advice here !
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