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Old 08-03-2013, 04:56 AM   #1
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Ketosis?

Typical day:

Steak, pork, chicken thighs, shrimp, fish, ground beef, tuna,ham
hard boiled eggs
Protein shake (homemade with unsweet. almond milk) - not everyday
small amounts of cheese 2 oz. max ( not everyday)
creamer (not hwc, lite but not 1/2 and 1/2)
mct oil
butter for cooking
small amounts of lettuce
1/4 of a lite flatout wrap ( 1-2 times a week)
Pork rinds

Obviously I am not claiming to be doing an Atkins induction but don't feel like I am in ketosis. The sticks say I am, but I don't have keto breath or much appetite suppression.

Any tips? Thanks
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:49 AM   #2
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Not everyone has the breath or the appetite suppression. The sticks aren't super reliable, but rarely give a false positive (they're more likely to give a false negative). I'd say you're in ketosis, but some of your choices might be stimulating your hunger.

I'd look at the wraps and the almond milk, especially.
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:59 AM   #3
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I agree with Ntombi. Lose the wraps. I would also advocate for using real cream (hwc). Also be sure to not be over-consuming protein. You have been doing a low carb woe for some time and you may be good at converting excess protein to glucose.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:05 AM   #4
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I am with Ntombi and clackley.

If you feel hunger, that could be a sign of a food intolerance. Ditch the wheat for 2 weeks and then reintroduce it into three meals for a single day and see what happens. When my family tried that experiment, 5 out of 6 of us immediately needed naps, felt ill, or had headaches. My other son has an iron gut.

It never occurred to me that I might be gluten intolerant until, for the first time in decades, I had no more congestion or cravings once I ditched grass-based foods! It's not easy, but man, it's worth it! Nailing down food intolerances has been one of the single most important steps in my success.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:21 AM   #5
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I'll try cutting the wrap and almond milk...grudingly I hate to think that the occasional use would be a problem, but it is worth finding out.

I have tried limiting protein and get hungry and end up binging on carbs.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:24 AM   #6
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:54 AM   #7
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I don't feel balanced and satisfied if I skip the veggies.
I also think that eating veggies/salads, with full fat dressings/oil/butter, with my meals helps me stay satisfied on the right amount of protein.

I like a nice salad with meat and ranch and olive oil for lunch.
For dinner I like a big chicken thigh or part of a steak, with a cup of buttered green beans, or some crisp-tender broccoli with olive oil, parmesan, and garlic.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:05 AM   #8
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Do you closely track the amount of carbs in the salad and the protein amount?
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:15 AM   #9
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Jeanie, how much do you cut protein and how do you do it? I guess I am asking for the #s!
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:19 AM   #10
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When I cut I limited it to about 8-12 oz. of cooked meal/poultry a day. Not sure what you mean by how do I do it? When not limiting I don't measure so not sure how much I am getting then, on occasion when I have tracked it usually in the 80-100 gram range.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Emel
Do you closely track the amount of carbs in the salad and the protein amount?

I used to, every day. Now that I eat pretty much the same salad and the same size meat every day, I don't track every day. I do still track if I'm having a weird-for-me food, such as the almond butter bread I'm having at brunch today.

2 cups romaine, 1 med stalk celery, 1/4 c chopped red bell pepper, half cup sliced cucumber. tbl marzetti simply ranch, 2 tsp olive oil, and some sea salt.
That's 15 fat, 7.38 carb/2.4 fiber/5 net carbs, 2 protein 170 cal

1 c broccoli spears, with tbl parmesan and tbl olive oil is
15 fat 11.34 carb/5.1 fiber/6 net 5.62 protein 196 cal

cup green beans w/tbl butter
11.5 fat 7.85 carb/ 3.7 fiber/4 net 2 protein, 136 cal

I don't eat a lot of cheese and I don't use cream in my coffee, so other than eggs and seasonings, I don't see a lot of carbs other than veg unless I make a recipe, like that bread or an almond flour muffin. I go big on the veg, and small on the muffin serving size.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:40 AM   #12
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I used to, every day. Now that I eat pretty much the same salad and the same size meat every day, I don't track every day. I do still track if I'm having a weird-for-me food, such as the almond butter bread I'm having at brunch today.

2 cups romaine, 1 med stalk celery, 1/4 c chopped red bell pepper, half cup sliced cucumber. tbl marzetti simply ranch, 2 tsp olive oil, and some sea salt.
That's 15 fat, 7.38 carb/2.4 fiber/5 net carbs, 2 protein 170 cal

1 c broccoli spears, with tbl parmesan and tbl olive oil is
15 fat 11.34 carb/5.1 fiber/6 net 5.62 protein 196 cal

cup green beans w/tbl butter
11.5 fat 7.85 carb/ 3.7 fiber/4 net 2 protein, 136 cal

I don't eat a lot of cheese and I don't use cream in my coffee, so other than eggs and seasonings, I don't see a lot of carbs other than veg unless I make a recipe, like that bread or an almond flour muffin. I go big on the veg, and small on the muffin serving size.
So you just eyeball the meat amounts? Almond butter oh my
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:49 AM   #13
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So you just eyeball the meat amounts? Almond butter oh my
lol I'm in OWL, and it's a treat, not a staple for me.
I weigh the meat, but I don't put it into a tracker every day because I've logged in "8 oz raw chicken thigh, yield after cooking, bone in, skin eaten" a million times so I know what it is lol

ETA
let me say, I think trackers are very very useful. I do use them sometimes to keep an eye on things.
If someone is more comfortable tracking their foods daily, I 100% support that.
I'm just to the point that "2 eggs 2 bacon, my salad, 4 oz cold chicken, cup green beans, tbl butter, 5 oz steak" is a regular day for me and I know it works so I'm not gonna bother checking it again.

Last edited by emel; 08-03-2013 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #14
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Thanks Emel. I tried almond butter when I was at goal a couple years back and ended up binging on it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:07 AM   #15
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Jeanie, I'm so sorry, I forgot that you had quantity/compulsion issues sometimes.

You know how I feel about mastering craving/binge/compulsion before you start limiting food quantities too severely.

The veggies at meal suggestion can work for you, but use caution.
Try a couple oz less of protein at a meal and then have a small salad or 1/2 to a cup of cooked veggie w/butter or oil. Then evaluate how you feel, and if you aren't satisfied, go back for a couple more oz protein to bring you up to your usual amount.

You don't want to make sweeping changes while you're in the middle of conquering a compulsion. At least that's my opinion--- too much restriction would be a surefire way to lead me back to compulsive night eating.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
When I cut I limited it to about 8-12 oz. of cooked meal/poultry a day. Not sure what you mean by how do I do it? When not limiting I don't measure so not sure how much I am getting then, on occasion when I have tracked it usually in the 80-100 gram range.
Are you including the protein in other foods such as cheese, eggs and veg.?

I am not sure how you feel about closely monitoring your grams of protein and such so I won't comment further unless you want.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #17
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Let me cut out the wraps and almond milk first and then I'll reevaluate
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #18
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Jeanie, I'm so sorry, I forgot that you had quantity/compulsion issues sometimes.

You know how I feel about mastering craving/binge/compulsion before you start limiting food quantities too severely.

The veggies at meal suggestion can work for you, but use caution.
Try a couple oz less of protein at a meal and then have a small salad or 1/2 to a cup of cooked veggie w/butter or oil. Then evaluate how you feel, and if you aren't satisfied, go back for a couple more oz protein to bring you up to your usual amount.

You don't want to make sweeping changes while you're in the middle of conquering a compulsion. At least that's my opinion--- too much restriction would be a surefire way to lead me back to compulsive night eating.

How much hunger if any do you allow? Do/Did you eat past full initially until you got to the place where you are now? Today I am struggling it is not what I would call deep hunger more just a feeling of wanting to feel full. I am 27 days in without a binge so that it is good, I have been able to think through the consequences of a carb binge and persevere, but am feeling a bit worried that at anytime I could easily give in.

Last edited by jeaniem; 08-03-2013 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:07 PM   #19
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How much hunger if any do you allow? Do/Did you eat past full initially until you got to the place where you are now? Today I am struggling it is not what I would call deep hunger more just a feeling of wanting to feel full. I am 27 days in without a binge so that it is good, I have been able to think through the consequences of a carb binge and persevere, but am feeling a bit worried that at anytime I could easily give in.
I eat slowly. I always have. I think a reason for my success is that since I eat slowly, my fullness signal isn't far behind me. What I mean is, if someone eats quickly, they can eat a lot of food before the fullness signal is in place, so they might get overfull by the time they've eaten.

Anyway, I eat until I am just full. I just put away 2/3 of a beautiful pork chop because I was done with it. It will make a great lunch tomorrow.

I don't let myself get starving. Usually 3 meals a day does it, but if I find myself a little growly in the afternoon (which means I'll be ravenous by dinner), I'll have a small balanced snack--- a dill pickle with a cold piece of leftover meat, or some raw veggies with an ounce of cheese, or a hot wing or two with celery and ranch dip, or an ounce of nuts (which are naturally balanced because they have a lot of fat and a little protein).

For nights, which is my challenge, I've just gotten back into keeping small snacks. Right now I have small cocoa muffins made from almond butter and a can of sf whipped cream. A bite of cheese with a half a pickle is a good night snack for me, too. I really try to watch whether I'm actually hungry for the night snack, because I had such a terrible time with compulsive eating at night.

ETA when I was eating compulsively, I'd really pack it in... 1/3 bag of oreos, or 2 or 3 pieces of store-bought key lime pie. or a big sandwich with chips and then something like pudding for the sweet. Not quite binging but huge.

Last edited by emel; 08-03-2013 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #20
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Thanks Emel. I am afraid of eating I think. I don't eat after dinner even if I get hungry as I feel like I need to be hungry to lose weight. I think this may be part of the reason I go off plan and binge as I finally I get tired of being hungry and just blow so to speak.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
How much hunger if any do you allow? Do/Did you eat past full initially until you got to the place where you are now? Today I am struggling it is not what I would call deep hunger more just a feeling of wanting to feel full. I am 27 days in without a binge so that it is good, I have been able to think through the consequences of a carb binge and persevere, but am feeling a bit worried that at anytime I could easily give in.
Jeanie,
I never feel hungry, not even pre-low carb and when I'd skip a meal but I did have to deal with the dissatisfaction of 'wanting to feel full' because, in the past, that's how I knew it was time to stop eating.

What finally worked for me was to keep my carbs below 25gm per day, eating the few hidden carbs in eggs at breakfast and then about 10 carbs at lunch and dinner and only from non-starchy vegies. That seemed to drop me deep enough into ketosis that even the 'interest' in food went away. I ate at the same time every day and I sat down to my meal whether I 'felt like it' or not. I think, at least for me, it was about taking control rather than letting the food have control (I was a binger). I also only eat about 4 oz of protein at lunch and again at dinner. Breakfast is always 2 eggs and bacon or just 3 eggs in butter.

I'm going to ditto getting rid of the wraps and almond milk and give it a week to see if that makes a difference for you.

Oh and part of 'recovering' from my bingeing was to log everything I eat...again, part of that taking control that I needed. Even though I've been at maintenance for a little over 5 months, I still log everything I eat.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:27 AM   #22
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No wraps or almond milk yesterday, still felt hungry by evening. I was down a pound today but that was due I think. Sticks were dark purple last night despite drinking water constantly.

Last edited by jeaniem; 08-04-2013 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:42 AM   #23
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Jeanie, what did your menu look like?

I swear that every time I was about to lose a bit, I would feel an unusual hunger.

Last edited by clackley; 08-04-2013 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:49 AM   #24
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Coffee 3 cups with light cream (I don't like hwc in coffee, the light is somewhere between full fat and 1/2 & 1/2.
1 Tbl. mct oil

Salmon burger cooked in butter
fried egg
cucumber slices
pork rinds

Ground beef w/ mayo and sprinkle of cheddar cheese
2 hard boiled eggs

Small chicken thigh

Last edited by jeaniem; 08-04-2013 at 09:50 AM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:52 AM   #25
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Jeanie, I do think you would do well to actually weigh and measure for a few days to get a handle on what it is you are actually consuming. I can say that your menu looks a little lacking in fat and high in protein but as I say, without the actual amounts, it is impossible to say.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:55 AM   #26
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Assuming I need less protein what should I shoot for? I am 52 about 5'1 and exercise most days of the week, mainly walking but some light weight lifting as well.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #27
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It is highly individual. There is an easy calculation but doesn't come to mind at the moment. I will post later when I return home or you can go to the n.k. thread and ask there. Someone will be able to help you.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:43 AM   #28
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What do you do for bad breathe? Mouthwash, gum, mints?
Is Miracle Whip allowed?
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #29
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Assuming I need less protein what should I shoot for? I am 52 about 5'1 and exercise most days of the week, mainly walking but some light weight lifting as well.
An *easy* calculation would be 1-1.5gm per kilo of current weight. It's a place to start and you can adjust it for your own needs from there.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:28 PM   #30
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An *easy* calculation would be 1-1.5gm per kilo of current weight. It's a place to start and you can adjust it for your own needs from there.
Thanks
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