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Garlic 07-09-2013 01:03 PM

OK, so what does this mean, if anything?
 
I posted a thread about how I ate a cheat meal on my last day of vacation. Up until that point - 5+ weeks - I had not cheated even a tiny bit. What I didn't say, mostly because I didn't know until the day after I posted that thread, was that when I got on the scale on Saturday, the day after vacation ended, the scale read 272 pounds!!! Up 8 pounds in one week. :sad:

I didn't want to admit that here, and assumed it had to do with that one cheat meal, somehow.... but 8 pounds made no sense to me either. Plus, I didn't overeat that week, and I walked a ton. So I was confused and disheartened.

That was Saturday morning. I got on the scale today and I was back at 264..... which is exactly where I started this low carb WOE 6 weeks ago. I haven't lost or gained weight. I won't go into all the good stuff again, but yes, low carb has definitely brought me some excellent changes in 6 weeks.

So, how is it I can "gain" 8 pounds in one week, lose it all in 4 days.... and still not be able to have lost a single pound in 5 weeks since starting low carb ( 5 weeks prior to vacation, that is ).

This really is confusing to me.

EDIT: I went back 100% on plan after that one meal.... no cheats since.

CindyCRNA 07-09-2013 01:08 PM

Salt consumption, water weight, hormonal flux all cause weight fluctuations. Many will chime in here and say post your diet so I will beat everyone to it but will add, post your diet with EXACT amounts consumed, not approximations. Then we can go from there.

Aomiel 07-09-2013 01:08 PM

Most likely water weight. Low carb tends to have a diuretic effect. Eat even one high carb meal and that diuretic effect can be gone.

Garlic 07-09-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CindyCRNA (Post 16506756)
Salt consumption, water weight, hormonal flux all cause weight fluctuations. Many will chime in here and say post your diet so I will beat everyone to it but will add, post your diet with EXACT amounts consumed, not approximations. Then we can go from there.

I have done that before, and almost everybody agreed that they saw nothing wrong except maybe too much consumption of dairy. And I have cut that back by about 25% so far, and waiting to see if that helps.

emel 07-09-2013 01:15 PM

4 pounds of the weight bobble could easily come from normal day-to-day water fluctuations.
More could have come from having carby biproducts plus the extra water it takes to process them.

Also, I'm not sure if you've ever managed to get into ketosis at 30 g carbs. I could be wrong. But some people need to go lower to kickstart ketosis. That's why Atkins (and others like Dr Westman) advocate starting at 20 grams carbs and then proceding upwards cautiously.

Further, if you had gotten into ketosis, you haven't given yourself enough time to achieve all of the metabolic advantage of keto-adaptation. Another way of putting it is that some bodies need to take a little time before they decide to release fat reserves.
For myself, I planned on 6 weeks of adjustment. Also, your inadvertant slips, such as the bologna incident, may have hampered your body's ability to burn fat effectively over the next week or two (Phinney says it can take 2 weeks or more to recover from a dietary mishap).

Then there's the possibility of carb creep, holding weight due to inadequate hydration, inadequate salt intake, metabolic resistence/insulin sensitivity issues, and all the usual problems we all may face, which can lead to slow or stalled loss.

Garlic 07-09-2013 01:18 PM

Well, emel, the one thing I can guarantee is that I don't have inadequate hydration.... I average 120 ounces of water a day. I did buy fresh ketostix today. The ones that I had been using were a couple years old. Let's see what they say. :) And if you recall, that bologna slip still kept me at 35ish GROSS carbs for the day. So likely under 30 net, as I had lots of veggies in that salad.

ravenrose 07-09-2013 01:59 PM

when I am low carbing strictly and have a high carb intake at a party for just a couple hours (this only happens like once a year, I am pretty strict) I gain about 6 lb in one day. about 4 of that will come off in a few days as "water weight" and the other two I am stuck with.

tybeeanna 07-09-2013 02:09 PM

I have to watch cal & carbs :(

emel 07-09-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlic (Post 16506778)
Well, emel, the one thing I can guarantee is that I don't have inadequate hydration.... I average 120 ounces of water a day. I did buy fresh ketostix today. The ones that I had been using were a couple years old. Let's see what they say. :) And if you recall, that bologna slip still kept me at 35ish GROSS carbs for the day. So likely under 30 net, as I had lots of veggies in that salad.

You asked, I gave my opinion. Take what you will of it. Something isn't clicking for you, or else you'd be losing by now (though I do think that some metabolically resistant people can take a long time to get the benefits of the plan--but those are the very people who have to really crunch it with super low carbs and 100% compliance.)

Anyway, I don't think you actually want to hear my advice, so I'll bow out, although I wish you the best.

CindyCRNA 07-09-2013 02:19 PM

Garlic, I'm sure you know this so I'm just saying it to hear myself.......type (haha) but ketosis doesn't mean weight loss. I gained in ketosis (too many calories) but it isn't a bad thing, just a tool but ketosis doesn't equate to weight loss.

tinamanni 07-09-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CindyCRNA (Post 16506884)
Garlic, I'm sure you know this so I'm just saying it to hear myself.......type (haha) but ketosis doesn't mean weight loss. I gained in ketosis (too many calories) but it isn't a bad thing, just a tool but ketosis doesn't equate to weight loss.

which is why posting exactly (again) what you eat may be helpful

I will go a good chunk of time without losing and then I will drop a few pounds in a day. I think my body continues to get smaller and eventually it just adjusts.

I have been in ketosis since January but I tested my blood and was barely in ketosis so I have been working to get those numbers up. I seem to be heading back down so not sure if it's related but will keep trying

Do you weigh yourself at the same time every day?

rcookie 07-09-2013 03:14 PM

just my two cents...
I started back on LC beginning of April and it took me about 9 weeks to start losing. I try to stick with 20 Net Carbs a day but sometimes I go up to 40. Also, I do eat dairy which some people have indicated will slow your loss.

I kept going because I felt so much better and had so much energy but I honestly started thinking I wasn't going to be able to lose any weight.

In June, the weight finally started coming off and I've lost 15 pounds.

I'd say just stick with it.

Patience 07-09-2013 03:33 PM

I was not a fast loser in my previous LC efforts, and I accept that at my age it's going to be even slower. But I do know that I am down a full size since March, so I am just going to stay the course. Now that I am weighing (end of denial) I get the attraction of the number on the scale, but it is truly just one indicator. Can you put your scale away for a while and just focus on staying on plan?

floridagirl6 07-09-2013 03:33 PM

I m diabetic, I have to eat very low carb to lose weight. I count all carbs.

Mistizoom 07-09-2013 03:39 PM

It's water weight.

Keep in mind some people have to ingest 20-25 g carbs/day or less to lose weight. Since you haven't been consistently that low you don't know if you fall into that category. Eating too much protein can also prevent weight loss as it stimulates insulin release. That is why many people here do NK (nutritional ketosis) to keep protein at a moderate level so they can lose. Not sure how much protein you are eating a day. You also exercise a lot. That can inhibit weight loss. I am experiencing this myself right now as I've started an exercise program recently and am not losing weight like I was. There are good reasons to exercise, but a well-formulated low carbohydrate diet has been show to preserve lean body mass much better than other types of diets. If you are interested in reading about the reasons/science behind some of these things, I recommend The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Phinney and Volek.

Aleina 07-09-2013 04:57 PM

Garlic, sorry to hear you are stuck. I lost 10 lbs in 3 months and in a previous attempt I had lost that in a month and then some. I am afraid that we will have to face that our bodies are out of whack from being this much overweight and ketosis cannot cure it all.

I had to experiment with putting things in, taking things out etc . Now I am losing, relatively slow still, but at least with a marked tendency. What helped me was a high magnesium intake for a while and possibly the general detox I did. It also seems to make a difference to my losing if I sleep early that is go to bed around ten as opposed to 12 or 1 which has been my custom for years.

The only good thing I can see from this losing slowly is that hopefully my body forgets the higher weight set points so that I won't have to see these numbers ever again. You never know this healing you are doing now might help you in the future to make your life less restrictive.

Practical tips. Look at your sleep patterns, melatonin plays a role, it is erroneous only to pander to regulating insulin output. Eg watch TV in a darkish room so that your body can prepare itself for sleep instead of "lights out and bam sleep now please". If you are not supplementing with Magnesium I would recommend it.
Look at your eating patterns too. Load your breakfast or load your lunch and eat light at night, try all even if one does not appeal. Leptin plays a role,too. If you want to find out if you may be resistant a good way to do it is to eat a really big breakfast with lots of fat and 50grams of protein,don't skimp. Then try to eat nothing , no BPC , nothing that could be construed as food until at least 5, not even a black tea with stevia,water only. If you make it until then you are most likely not leptin resistant. I could make it quite easily after having been in ketosis this long but in the process I found I like this kind of eating as it leaves me free for most of the day to do stuff.

Good luck,it will happen unfortunately at its own timetable.

Mistizoom 07-09-2013 06:00 PM

Oh, I forgot, did you ever get your thyroid results from you doctor? Likely it's only TSH anyway. Since you're stuck it is probably worth getting a full thyroid panel including TSH, free T3, free T4, anti-TPO, and maybe a couple of others. Hashimoto's (autoimmune thyroid disease) is a possibility, but doctors tend to think it can't happen in men. My DH has both Type 2 diabetes and Hashimoto's (hypothyroid) and treating both (metformin for Type 2 and Armour for hypothyroidism) has helped his weight loss. Even on VLC he wasn't losing well until both were treated. Even now he still gets stuck quite a bit.

nolcjunk 07-09-2013 06:02 PM

I think you mentioned in another thread that you eat 2500 calories. That's probably too much for you to lose on. I'd first try dropping calories.

Trigger828 07-09-2013 06:46 PM

Garlic, I don't remember if you mentioned this....but your stats say you lost weight from 326 and you are now 260.

How did you lose that weight?

was it LC previous and you stopped and started again?? or was it some other eating plan for you to lose the weight?


just wondering.

Garlic 07-09-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emel (Post 16506875)
You asked, I gave my opinion. Take what you will of it. Something isn't clicking for you, or else you'd be losing by now (though I do think that some metabolically resistant people can take a long time to get the benefits of the plan--but those are the very people who have to really crunch it with super low carbs and 100% compliance.)

Anyway, I don't think you actually want to hear my advice, so I'll bow out, although I wish you the best.

No, that wasn't my intention at all. I was just stating a response to one of your thoughts that could be ruled out.

Garlic 07-09-2013 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolcjunk (Post 16507223)
I think you mentioned in another thread that you eat 2500 calories. That's probably too much for you to lose on. I'd first try dropping calories.

There are days I eat that way, but most days I eat 1800 - 2200.... and if BMR theory is to be believed, I eat too little.

Garlic 07-09-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trigger828 (Post 16507287)
Garlic, I don't remember if you mentioned this....but your stats say you lost weight from 326 and you are now 260.

How did you lose that weight?

was it LC previous and you stopped and started again?? or was it some other eating plan for you to lose the weight?


just wondering.

That weight was lost over 3 years.... and it was done with huge amounts of exercise, and low fat, and higher than a diabetic should eat number of carbs.

Garlic 07-09-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistizoom (Post 16507219)
Oh, I forgot, did you ever get your thyroid results from you doctor? Likely it's only TSH anyway. Since you're stuck it is probably worth getting a full thyroid panel including TSH, free T3, free T4, anti-TPO, and maybe a couple of others. Hashimoto's (autoimmune thyroid disease) is a possibility, but doctors tend to think it can't happen in men. My DH has both Type 2 diabetes and Hashimoto's (hypothyroid) and treating both (metformin for Type 2 and Armour for hypothyroidism) has helped his weight loss. Even on VLC he wasn't losing well until both were treated. Even now he still gets stuck quite a bit.

No, I didn't get them.... however, I have a checkup with blood work scheduled for September, and before I go I will ask for a full thyroid panel. And this time I will ask for the results. :)

Garlic 07-10-2013 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcookie (Post 16506987)
just my two cents...
I started back on LC beginning of April and it took me about 9 weeks to start losing. I try to stick with 20 Net Carbs a day but sometimes I go up to 40. Also, I do eat dairy which some people have indicated will slow your loss.

I kept going because I felt so much better and had so much energy but I honestly started thinking I wasn't going to be able to lose any weight.

In June, the weight finally started coming off and I've lost 15 pounds.

I'd say just stick with it.

Thanks.... this gives me some hope.... You know, way back in about 1984, I went low carb and lost 27 pounds in 2 weeks, when I started... which was about 15% of my total weight.

I have been under 30 gross carbs every day but 2.... and the one day was intentional, and mentioned in the OP, and the other was just because I had a salad and there was ring bologna in it ( bought at a restaurant ), and I wasn't thinking that it had carbs, but being a processed food, it did, I found out when I went to log it.

When I started about 6 weeks ago, I was 264, same as today, and my goal was to be 250 by August 14th. So 14 pounds in about 12 weeks. Unless I get very lucky, that won't happen now. :sad:

On the other hand, the many positive things I have had since going LC have offset my sadness, somewhat. ;)

avid 07-10-2013 07:48 AM

I also think calories might be the problem
I totally disregarded calories during most of weight loss.
Carbs was the only thing I watched, and I was VLC.
Then when I got close to goal, I stalled. Further reducing the carbs did nothing.
Then after posting here at LCF, it was suggested I post my diet and it was revealed that I was ingesting too many calories, specifically from HWC.
I drastically reduced the amount of HWC I put in my coffee, and voila!!! I was at goal in no time.
So, if your stuck and are sure that your carb intake is low enough....the next step is prolly to cut calories. good luck!

Aquarius 07-10-2013 10:36 AM

Garlic, have you ever done or considered a fat fast? In Atkins 1992 he recommends that as a way to kickstart weight loss in the metabolically resistant.

And for what it's worth, last year during my spring vacation I cheated and I was up 8 pounds in 5 days. I only cheated at breakfast because we were staying at a bed and breakfast and for some stupid reason I didn't feel comfortable asking for an accommodation. It was very small amount of the wrong carbs and I knew I'd be up but 8 pounds really blew me away. And then like with you, it disappeared as fast as it had come. So it must have been mostly water weight.

This year, I asked for an accommodation. Not going through that again!

pocahontas 07-10-2013 10:49 AM

If you are very, very metabolically challenged, you may need to drop those carbs. I have always followed the original 1972 Atkins where you count all carbs, you dont net them. It works best for me and I lose better counting them all. If you are netting around 30, you could be eating upwards of 50 and that may explain the lack of weight loss. Try counting all for a week or two and see if you can still stay at 30. I bet it will be a dramatically different menu. Realize though, that you may need to get down to around 20 to lose. Everyone is different and it seems you are not losing with what you are doing so a change is in order.

On the other point, I can easily gain 5-7 lbs from a cheat meal. It's water weight but could take the better part of a week to go away.

Garlic 07-10-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocahontas (Post 16508320)
If you are very, very metabolically challenged, you may need to drop those carbs. I have always followed the original 1972 Atkins where you count all carbs, you dont net them. It works best for me and I lose better counting them all. If you are netting around 30, you could be eating upwards of 50 and that may explain the lack of weight loss. Try counting all for a week or two and see if you can still stay at 30. I bet it will be a dramatically different menu. Realize though, that you may need to get down to around 20 to lose. Everyone is different and it seems you are not losing with what you are doing so a change is in order.

On the other point, I can easily gain 5-7 lbs from a cheat meal. It's water weight but could take the better part of a week to go away.

Ah, but I always count gross carbs. My net may be less, and I almost always know what my net carbs are, but my gross has never exceeded 35 or 36 except that 1 meal.

I count / log / measure / weigh every single thing I eat except water, but even at that, I know I drink 100+ ounces a day.

Garlic 07-10-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarius (Post 16508281)
Garlic, have you ever done or considered a fat fast? In Atkins 1992 he recommends that as a way to kickstart weight loss in the metabolically resistant.

I don't even know what that is..... no fat at all?

That would be scary and hard, I would imagine, as I am diabetic.... I mean how would you just get protein? Because I can't eat carbs anmore with my diabetes? I will google it. :)

Mistizoom 07-10-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlic (Post 16508402)
I don't even know what that is..... no fat at all?

That would be scary and hard, I would imagine, as I am diabetic.... I mean how would you just get protein? Because I can't eat carbs anmore with my diabetes? I will google it. :)

A fat fast is eating 1000 calories a day at 90% or more fat, for like 3 days.


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