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Old 07-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #1
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Dr attia and protein needs

I have been watching alot of u tube videos on dr attia and some others like westman, phinney, taubes. Very very interesting

Here is my question. They all say calories do not count and low carb is high fat moderate protein intake. I get how protein if eaten in excess acts like u have eaten sugar. How many grams is moderate protein intake??
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:46 PM   #2
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Firstly, none of them say calories don't count. They say that calories are less important than keeping carbs low and protein moderate, but if you're doing that and not losing, you may have to consciously restrict your calories. They're saying most people don't have to, but some do.

Secondly, there are formulas available for calculating your protein needs, and they're all slightly different. Keto Calculator is pretty good, but so are several others.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #3
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I think it can be a matter of interpretation. Taubes takes us through a thought exercise that demonstrates that calories don't make sense. Dr. Attia also demonstrated that they (calories) had little bearing on his experiences. When one looks at what a calorie is and how those #s are arrived at and then realize what the body actually responds to, it seems clear to me that calories don't have much meaning as a method of weight management.
I also think that the attempt to control them can be counter productive. When someone is reducing calories they are also reducing their macronutrients but fail to make the connection.

Moderate protein is going to differ between people. The best thing to do is use a formula and see how it works for you and then adjust according to your results.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #4
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That's a fun calculator, Ntombi! Thanks.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:59 PM   #5
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Thanks.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:03 AM   #6
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Don't forget that determining your protein also needs to take into account whether you are doing any strength training to build muscle mass, which increases your metabolism, and reduces your body fat %. From my reading and experience as little as twice a week for 15 min can substantially hasten and improve body fat loss as compared to just low carbing alone. (After stretching and light warm-up, I lift weights as heavy as I can to get 4-6 repetitions in Good Form, and I do 3 sets. I just work 3 of the six major muscle groups each workout: Hamstrings, Gluteus, Quadriceps, Chest, Back, Shoulders).
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntombi View Post
Firstly, none of them say calories don't count. They say that calories are less important than keeping carbs low and protein moderate, but if you're doing that and not losing, you may have to consciously restrict your calories. They're saying most people don't have to, but some do.

Secondly, there are formulas available for calculating your protein needs, and they're all slightly different. Keto Calculator is pretty good, but so are several others.
I used a keto-calculator (just googled it) and I cannot believe the numbers it came up with. According to them, I'm roughly 500 kCal below my minimum, and though carbs and protein seem to be in-line with what I'm doing, I'm off by 40-50 gm of fat. Unbelievable. This could explain a lot. I'm going to try an experiment for a month with these numbers. If I gain 10% bodyfat I'm going to be unhappy lol

Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:18 AM   #8
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This is a topic that confuses me...
I am not really sure how many grams of protein are considered "moderate"
I try to be every day under 160 g, but I am not sure if this figure is right.
The Keto Calculator was no help for me...
Maybe someone can provide a more simple explanation about protein needs and grams
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #9
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There's an easier calculation in Protein Power by Eades.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:25 AM   #10
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There's an easier calculation in Protein Power by Eades.
The problem with all this calculators is that they give you ranges...
I wish there was one that tell me "x ounces of protein a day"
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #11
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The problem with all this calculators is that they give you ranges...
I wish there was one that tell me "x ounces of protein a day"
Well it depends on your activity level in addition to height, weight, gender (essentially these 3 things are used to estimate your lean body mass). If you are extremely active you will need more protein, or can at least utilize more protein.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #12
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Thank you Mistizoom
For example according to Eades my minimum intake of protein will be 90 gr / 3 meals = 30 grams per meal...To me, and for my weight, this is unrealistic
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by thatphdguy View Post
Thank you Mistizoom
For example according to Eades my minimum intake of protein will be 90 gr / 3 meals = 30 grams per meal...To me, and for my weight, this is unrealistic
Why is that unrealistic? Too high or too low? Maybe you can post all your stats? Height, weight, age, activity level - then we can take a look.

Also make sure you are not confusing grams of protein with quantites of protein containing foods.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:45 AM   #14
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Sedentary
72 Inches or 6'0''
42
297

I go with the grams of protein in labels...
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:55 AM   #15
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Try this one....

The formula looks like this: (goal_weight/2.2)*1.5 = daily protein grams.

For example: Your goal weight is 150

(150/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by thatphdguy View Post
Sedentary
72 Inches or 6'0''
42
297

I go with the grams of protein in labels...
Using the Keto Calculator I'm getting that you should have 119 g protein/day minimum using the defaults (which calculates you as having 185 lbs. of lean body mass). Another simple way of calculating is to divide lean body mass by two, so that would be 96 g protein/day. So it seems like 90-120 g a day for you would be "minimum". If not enough for you, you could bump that up a bit and likely still lose (assuming carbs are low). If that is too much, I would say find ways to supplement with protein to get at least 90 g/day. You don't need to divide it 100% equally either, though somewhat spread throughout the day is a good idea.

Not sure if that helps?
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:02 PM   #17
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Cathy: 220/2.2*1.5 = 150 grams...Is that maximum daily?

Mistizoom thank you again I keep carbs at 20-22 or bellow I have been losing weight...In your opinion, what would be my maximum protein intake in grams to still lose safely and steadily?
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatphdguy View Post
Cathy: 220/2.2*1.5 = 150 grams...Is that maximum daily?

Mistizoom thank you again I keep carbs at 20-22 or bellow I have been losing weight...In your opinion, what would be my maximum protein intake in grams to still lose safely and steadily?
Yes it is if 220 is your goal weight.

Last edited by clackley; 07-03-2013 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #19
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Yes it is.
So, generally speaking, as long as I am under 150 grams a day, that will be considered "moderate" protein and i will keep losing and not getting kicked out of ketosis?

Thank you very much Cathy by the way
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:10 PM   #20
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In theory that is correct but be careful to eat to your protein needs. You don't want to under eat by too much on a regular basis as the whole lean muscle mass loss may come into play. And of course, you must not exceed your carb limit which should be something under 50 total grams.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatphdguy View Post
Cathy: 220/2.2*1.5 = 150 grams...Is that maximum daily?

Mistizoom thank you again I keep carbs at 20-22 or bellow I have been losing weight...In your opinion, what would be my maximum protein intake in grams to still lose safely and steadily?
If you are sedentary, the Keto Calculator suggests 119 g protein/day for you if you want a specific number. But is seems that a range of 90-150 g protein/day should work for you. Then 20-22 g carbs, and make the rest up with fat. Around 2000 calories a day seems like it should be reasonable for you for weight loss.
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:20 PM   #22
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Yes, 150g would be moderate for you, and there's leeway either way. Don't go below a minimum amount (which we can't tell you without knowing your LBM), or your body will eat its own muscle.

For example, I have had my body fat and LBM tested via hydrostatic testing (underwater dunking), and it gave me a LBM of 154 pounds. Because I'm trying to keep that and only lose excess fat, I eat at least 90g of protein, but my loose goal is about 130g daily. Now, I don't count protein, but I'm what I call protein-conscious. I still under- or overeat protein sometimes, but not on a regular basis.

I just got some blood ketone strips, and I'm testing every morning for a week, just out of curiosity. I ate significantly over my loose protein goal the other day (180g), but I was still in the optimal fat burning zone the next morning. It didn't knock me out of ketosis, but my carbs were also super low that day (11g total, under 8g total), so that probably helped.

So don't get too crazy about it, just keep it in mind as you're losing. If you encounter trouble later on in your weight loss process, you might have to keep a tighter reign on protein and/or calories.

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Old 07-03-2013, 01:20 PM   #23
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Thanks everyone...
I think I am gonna stay under 150, which is actually the range I have been shooting for
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:08 PM   #24
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Thanks everyone...
I think I am gonna stay under 150, which is actually the range I have been shooting for
2149 kcal Daily Calorie Intake
25 g Carbohydrates (5%) (those are net carbs)
150 g Protein (28%)
161 g Fat (67%)


BUT if that's too hard on a hungry day, add up to another 50 g protein for a total of 200, AND/OR be a little bit more generous with the fat grams if that helps. So use 150 g protein as your default plan, and allow another 50 if you aren't satisfied on a particular day.

And if you aren't hungry on a particular day, you can go as low as 120 g protein. But don't let yourself get empty.

And you can cut fat intake by a little more if you want to, but not if it makes you run around all hungry and sad.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #25
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Thanks for all this info. I am defiantly eating way to much protein!! Where did the calculator link go??

I am not sure how I am you goi g to do this ??
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:20 PM   #26
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Just google "keto calculator." It's the first result.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
2149 kcal Daily Calorie Intake
25 g Carbohydrates (5%) (those are net carbs)
150 g Protein (28%)
161 g Fat (67%)


BUT if that's too hard on a hungry day, add up to another 50 g protein for a total of 200, AND/OR be a little bit more generous with the fat grams if that helps. So use 150 g protein as your default plan, and allow another 50 if you aren't satisfied on a particular day.

And if you aren't hungry on a particular day, you can go as low as 120 g protein. But don't let yourself get empty.

And you can cut fat intake by a little more if you want to, but not if it makes you run around all hungry and sad.
Thank you Emel
The only trouble I have been having is adding more fat and not going bananas with the calories
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:14 PM   #28
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I don't remember which site I gleaned this from... but the value that sticks in my mind is that your daily protein intake, in grams, should be about the same as your target weight, in pounds. Or thereabouts. I don't think I can eat that much! but I try to get it up close to that range, anyhow.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:24 PM   #29
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I thought that the formula was 1.5 times your goal weight in kgs.

I find that I hit that very consistently without even trying. But, it's nice to know
My app tells me my ratios, %, numbers, etc. I wouldn't have 2 clues before. And although I don't make a point of punting calories, the app also computes it. I am always within about 50 calories daily, except right before my cycle, when I can be way higher!! But, I refuse to be hungry r feel deprived. That's when I make bad decisions and ultimately fail.
My ratios and foods are on point, so if my body is telling me it needs 450 more calories of fat/protein, I will have it.
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