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Garlic 06-12-2013 07:26 PM

So tomorrow starts week 3....kind of sad,kind of happy.
 
OK, so I have seen lots of great thing happen to me in the last 3 weeks... mostly great stuff on my diabetes issues. Really great stuff. :jumpjoy:

But after losing 4 pounds the first few days, I have regained 2 pounds? :sad:

I have been 100% true to this WOE. I have not once exceeded 30 GROSS carbs on any day after the 3rd or 4th day ( which is when I decided to cut way back ). I usually average about 23 - 27 carbs a day. I have given up wheat 100%.

I don't eat very many nuts.... not really something I enjoy except cashews, and I haven't had any of those.... in 3 weeks I have eaten less than a cup of nuts. I keep cheese to 3 ounces or less a day.

I only decided to be LCHF a few days ago.

Now, I had already lost 60 pounds over 3 years before I started LCing 3 weeks ago. So I am thinking that maybe I shouldn't expect the pounds to fall off, but dang, in 3 weeks I have lost just 2 pounds? Based on what I read here on LCF, it seems like I should have at least lost 5 or 6 pounds so far.

I'm NOT KIDDING when I say I have been 100% true to this WOE. And I don't think it is overeating... I still keep track of calories, and I am always 1700 - 2300. I weigh most of my food. Plus, I exercise 2 - 10 hours a week depending on how I feel, and what I have time for.

What do you think is the reason I have only lost 2 net pounds in 3 weeks?

Yes, I did switch to LC for helping my diabetes, but I figured that the weight would come off too. :sad:

Nancypie11 06-12-2013 08:22 PM

Cheese and nuts can stall people, as well the fact that LC is usually under 20 net carbs a day... Maybe if you post some sample menus we can help find other things that might be problem areas...

Garlic 06-12-2013 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancypie11 (Post 16468192)
Cheese and nuts can stall people, as well the fact that LC is usually under 20 net carbs a day... Maybe if you post some sample menus we can help find other things that might be problem areas...

Well, like I said, I really don't eat nuts.... And 30 carbs or less is eating low carb accordng to many books I read.... And my carbs are gross carbs. I don't subtract the fiber to get net carbs. I might be wrong, but I think 20 or less is really Atkins induction level.

heidihoopi 06-12-2013 09:12 PM

How's your fat percentages? Are you in ketosis?

rubidoux 06-12-2013 09:42 PM

When I first started low carbing in 2000, I ate under 20 g for several months and then went up to 30-35 and stayed there for almost four years. I lost NO weight but my blood sugar was awesome. It was pretty frustrating.

Over the years since then I would try but couldn't ever really stick to it bc I wasn't losing. Then a couple of years ago out of frustration w my blood sugar I went zero carb, and I do mean ZERO. And guess what! I almost immediately lost four pounds. So I stayed on and kept losing.

Now I've been able to lose while eating a little carb (usually 7-12 g per day from HWC, eggs, cheese, avocado, almonds), but I don't eat veggies anywhere near to the extent I used to. I do have a salad every once in a great while if I'm out and it's the best option.

Garlic 06-12-2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heidihoopi (Post 16468231)
How's your fat percentages? Are you in ketosis?

Indeed... The stix and my bad breath tell me so.:laugh:

I looked it up... 65 % fat a day.... That surprised me.... Thought I was lower.

Ntombi 06-12-2013 09:47 PM

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...cale-lies.html


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...-give-rip.html

If you're going to weigh daily, get used to fluctuations. It's not fat, it's water, especially with you exercising.

Garlic 06-12-2013 09:51 PM

Wow, Jayne.....

I guess if I had to, I could do that, but the thought of almost ZERO veggies is not appealing. Right now I plan to give this 3 months, and if I don't lose weight I will ask my doctor what to do.... I had my thyroid checked several months ago, and all was well.

I really don't get it.

Garlic 06-12-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16468248)
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...cale-lies.html


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...-give-rip.html

If you're going to weigh daily, get used to fluctuations. It's not fat, it's water, especially with you exercising.

My exercise is mostly walking and semi serious gardening. The point, as I see it is, only 2 pounds net loss in 3 weeks, not daily fluctuation.

Arctic_Mama 06-12-2013 10:05 PM

A normal fluctuation for someone with normal range body mass is 4 pounds. The bigger you are, the more significant the swings. Low carb makes those even more obvious, especially if something is not well tolerated the inflammatory water retention can be really significant.

You have a choice here - stick it out or quit. Are you going to get frustrated and quit because 'this isn't working', when all other behavioral indicators like exercise and food point to the contrary? Or are you staying with it, and letting the scale do what it may?

If you're not quitting, then you need to stop giving a rip what the scale says. Garlic can't control the scale (and neither can Taryl!). The scale does what it wants. What you CAN control is what you do - if you are strictly on plan and know you should be losing, exercise a wee bit of faith in the process and give yourself TIME. If, in six or twelve weeks, you have STILL only lost two pounds, then we can troubleshoot and discuss tweaking things. Otherwise, you need persistence and patience and you need them in spades. This is for life, and getting annoyed at every scale blip is really counterproductive to your morale on such a long and challenging journey.

Do yourself a favor and step away from the scale for just two weeks. Weigh back in later and see if it hasn't resolved itself. I'll eat my hat if you're accurately accounting for your food and are still stuck in the exact same spot come July.

Garlic 06-12-2013 10:14 PM

Thanks, Taryl.

I say with 100% belief that my food intake is exactly what I said.... I weigh it and log it every single day.

I don't love daily fluctuation, but I do understand they happen. I don't understand 2 net pounds in 3 weeks. Plus, it has taken me 3 years to lose 60 pounds, prior to low carb. Three years. Not even half a pound a week.

Chuck41 06-12-2013 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlic (Post 16468249)
Wow, Jayne.....

I guess if I had to, I could do that, but the thought of almost ZERO veggies is not appealing. Right now I plan to give this 3 months, and if I don't lose weight I will ask my doctor what to do.... I had my thyroid checked several months ago, and all was well.

I really don't get it.

Ask a Doctor? Wow, that is desperate! For years I tried to do what they told me and only got fatter with lousy blood tests.

When I first started this woe this time I could do most anything on plan and lose weight. Now five months later it is much harder. Veggies, even LC ones tend to stall me now. Of course I have committed to this as a lifestyle, not just a quick weight loss program so it doesn't matter a lot. I got on this to make me feel better and get my blood tests under control and as long as it does that, I ain't gonna complain. Now I can walk up the hill from my pond and not get winded, I can fit into old smaller jeans, and I don't embarass myself because of gas problems in crowds. It is terrible when you go to church and have to sit in your own pew.

rubidoux 06-12-2013 11:25 PM

I think sticking to your plan for a while is a good idea. I don't think what I'm doing is a good place to start. Hopefully you will find that something less drastic works for you.

But I gotta agree w Chuck on the doctor idea. In the 20 years that I've been diabetic and 15 since I started gaining, I have never once had a doctor or nutritionist give me advice that helped w my weight or blood sugar. I can see asking the doctor out of curiosity (last time I talked to mine he was keen on some 500 calorie per day liquid diet!) but don't expect him or her to have the answer.

Leo41 06-13-2013 01:20 AM

I know this isn't a popular idea here, but there's no weight loss without a caloric deficit, and you may not have enough for sustained loss.

All the calculators that tell us how much we should eat to lose are approximations based on large populations and don't necessarily work for any individual.

When I began seriously losing at 300+ lbs, a doctor sent me to a nutritionist for 'advice.' She told me that I should aim for 1800 cal a day--which was certainly reasonable for someone my size at that time. But I knew I could not lose at that level and told her so. Unless I limited myself to 1400 cal, I would not lose--and even at that level, I lost barely a pound a week.

Several years later, my endo told me that he suspected that I have a 'genetically slow metabolism,' part of the complex genetic inheritance that kept me morbidly obese from childhood. Because of that, I can eat at most 25g of carbs daily [even now in maintenance], and usually I'm at 15-20g. I've always had to eat low calorie as well.

I'm sure you are not in such dire condition as I am, but it may be that you need fewer calories to lose.

As you can see from my stats, I figured out what I needed to do--and it is contrary to most of the advice on this board. But I've been maintaining for close to 3 years now, so it works for me--and that's all that matters to me.

You need to find what 'works' for you.

Garlic 06-13-2013 01:51 AM

thanks, Leo.

I did, in the last 3 years, go down to 1500 a day, with lots of exercise, and still never really had decent results, and I was always hungry. But that was not low carb. You are correct that I need to find what works for me, but I have been trying to find that for almost 20 years.... I did once lose 100 pounds which almost put me at goal weight. I did it via 25 hours a week of exercise...

I used to ride my bike 150+ miles a week, do cadio kick boxing a few hours a week, and 10 hours of working out at the gym every week. Yes, it worked, but it put me in a very bad way mentally.

I will stay on plan for at least 3 months, and then assess where I am.

Also, Chuck, what I meant about going to the doctor was to see if there are any other tests that exist that might determine why I struggle so much. I won't be asking for eating advice. ;)

Also, as I mentioned, I am seeing FABULOUS results from the diabetic part of eating low carb. My BS levels have dropped from almost 300 to 150ish. My foot neuropathy is seemingly going away. I no longer get night sweats from my sugars being too low. I can hold my hand out now and be steady as a rock.

So, you see, in reality, while I say 3 months, I really know I can't go back to not eating low carb.

I'm sorry.... I want to wake up one day and just like the way I look. I have never had that for even one day in my almost 51 years. I am sure many people on this site could say the very same thing. I just like to vent publicly; it makes me feel better, LOL.

Seriously, thanks to all who have offered advice. You kick butt, and I will keep keeping on.

Garlic / Chuck

emel 06-13-2013 05:00 AM

The Second Month Slump is what I am investigating now in my reading.
I think it has to do with two things--- allowing our bodies to finish adapting to using fat for energy now that dietary carbs are restricted, and caloric intake.

Caloric intake--- we've trained ourselves to rely on mostly fat and protein. It was hard at first, but now we're in the groove and we are enjoying delicious foods. Sometimes we're enjoying too much of them. In the early days of lowcarbing, I believe we shouldn't worry overmuch about calories because our body's job is to make the switch from being a carb-burner to being a fat-burner, and our mind's job is to get used to the new food choices. Then, after a while, we need to listen to the signals that tell us we're getting full. Note that I said "getting" full, not "being" full. I need to stop eating even though I could eat more, with the goal of being pleasantly satisfied and not stuffed. It takes the brain several minutes to realize that there's food in the belly, so I stop before the brain catches on.

Fat Burner versus Carb Burner-- it takes awhile for the body as a system to work on fat instead of carbs (or I should say fatty acids versus glucose). The brain must be fueled first, and then the muscles get their turn at the fuel. The body really wants to make sure the brain is happy, so it sends a lot of energy derived from food to the brain and then the muscles do their best to nourish themselves with what is left over. Eventually (and I'm investigating the timing of this), the body completes the adaption to the new way of metabolising foods, and the muscles can easily use stored body fat for fuel because they know that the brain has plenty of fuel on the new way of eating.

Here's some links to some stuff I put up in the recommended reading section in case you are fascinated:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/re...-calories.html

and then post #5 from this one:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/re...rated-fat.html

ETA--- let me add one more thought about calorie consumption. The models for how much to eat are based on high carb standard diets. Since the mechanisms for turning food to fuel in carb-restricted eating plans versus standard diet are so different, I don't see why we should assume that the calorie levels should be the same for both ways of eating. Calories DO matter, but insufficient calories can be a bad thing, too. So the old wisdom of how much calories to cut should, in my opinion, be analyzed thoughtfully when using a LC food plan.

Garlic 06-13-2013 05:12 AM

TY Emil... I had read the first before, and just now, the second.

emel 06-13-2013 05:35 AM

And then there's the case against too much protein:
(from some references sited on an article at ketotics.org)



Quote:

Both insulin and glucose (probably by causing the secretion of insulin) suppress ketones. This is why, for example, consuming more than about 50 gm of carbohydrates per day and/or more than about 120-150 gm of protein per day makes it difficult to be in nutritional ketosis – too much insulin secretion.
Evidence type: authority
Stephen J. Phinney and Jeff S. Volek. The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable. Beyond Obesity LLC (May 19, 2011). ISBN-10: 0983490708

Another reason to avoid eating too much protein is that it has a modest insulin stimulating effect that reduces ketone production. While this effect is much less gram-for-gram than carbohydrates, higher protein intakes reduce one's keto-adaptation and thus the metabolic benefits of the diet.
Another thought about protein: In my reading of my LC gurus, I've seen a reference to measuring protein in absolute terms as opposed to percentage of total calories. So that means find your correct protein amount and don't worry if it isn't in the 15-25% range, or whatever range your plan calls for (not trying to bash the NK folks here---excess protein DOES impact weight loss, so I think NK is a valid plan)

Ntombi 06-13-2013 05:50 AM

I'm with you on the protein thing, emel. I count and limit grams of carbs to no more than 20, and have a loose protein gram goal of 100g (though I don't count it), and the rest (fat) is what it is.

lanita 06-13-2013 06:16 AM

I WISH I could lose two lbs in three weeks!

jokath 06-13-2013 06:45 AM

I suggest that you stick to the plan and throw out the scales! As long as you're sincere in working the plan without cheating it will work but it takes patience. It obviously took longer than 3 months to get you to where you are today it's going to take some time to lose it. JMO.

AnnetteW 06-13-2013 06:56 AM

Try looking at the numbers differently and they might not be as upsetting. First of all, you said you are starting week 3, so that means you've only done it 2 week, so you lost 2 lbs. Maybe during week 3 you'll lose more, worry about that at the end of the week.

This is how I look at my numbers and it helps to keep me sane. I made a document in google drive (you can you excel.) I do weigh daily and track that number (I also use the bodyfat portion of my scale and track that daily.)

Then I average all the weights for 1 week at a time. That average is my weight for the week. After 2 weeks I have enough data to find my average loss.

So for my first weeks data I used my Starting Weight minus my Week 1 Average Weight to be my Week 1 Average Weight Loss (for Week 1).

Now on to Week 2. I used the Week 1 Average Weight minus Week 2 Average Weight to be my Week 2 Average Weight Loss

Now I have data for 6 weeks, and though I lost about 3 lbs the first and second weeks, now I'm losing just under a pound a week, using those averages, which isn't a lot, but it is a loss and I know I am eating in a deficit.

Yet just looking at my numbers makes me on occasion feel like I'm gaining, when in truth I'm not.

I do it with the bodyfat numbers too and I can see them go down. As long as something goes down I will be happy. If my weight or body fat doesn't go down, I'm probably doing something wrong.

I am in the "calories count" camp, and I track them occasionally just to see where I am, but I'm not focusing on them as I want to do this plan (Atkins) without counting, at least not until I have to.

But I do believe we still have to eat less calories than we burn in a day to lose weight. And if that deficit is only a couple hundred calories a day, it can take weeks to show up on the scale when you throw in natural water fluctuations on top of it.

Or stay off the scale.

avid 06-13-2013 07:13 AM

Unfortunately, the 'textbook' carb level does not apply to everyone.
After joining LCF I was surprised to see how very different the individual response
to lc eating is. This is truly a YMMV endeavor.
Being diabetic a lc woe seems logical. You may have to experiment with different approaches till you find the one that works for you.
Good luck.

Garlic 06-13-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanita (Post 16468529)
I WISH I could lose two lbs in three weeks!


Yes, but, you aren't 260 pounds. Be very happy about that.

@ Annette.... Actually I have 3 weeks complete. My title is wrong.

Patience 06-13-2013 08:34 AM

You say "in 3 weeks I have eaten less than a cup of nuts."
And then you say in next post. "I really don't eat nuts...."

This is how carbs creep in. I would encourage you to record all your carbs.
I also agree that if you are really impatient for loss, to go to 20 carbs and stick to induction foods. It's your choice, of course, but that's the path that works for many.

Yes you have a lot of weight to lose, but so do lots of people here and the trick if there is one is patience and persistance. I think throwing away the scale might work better for you than obsessing about a few llbs in your early days, but that is a matter of opinion and others will have a different opinion. You are in this for the long term return, so I'd say continue to seek feedback and settle in for the long term, as you may need to eat at these levels for a long time.

Good luck on your journey. You have lots of company here, including me!

emel 06-13-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella (Post 16468729)
You say "in 3 weeks I have eaten less than a cup of nuts."
And then you say in next post. "I really don't eat nuts...."

This is how carbs creep in. I would encourage you to record all your carbs.
I also agree that if you are really impatient for loss, to go to 20 carbs and stick to induction foods. It's your choice, of course, but that's the path that works for many.

Yes you have a lot of weight to lose, but so do lots of people here and the trick if there is one is patience and persistance. I think throwing away the scale might work better for you than obsessing about a few llbs in your early days, but that is a matter of opinion and others will have a different opinion. You are in this for the long term return, so I'd say continue to seek feedback and settle in for the long term, as you may need to eat at these levels for a long time.

Good luck on your journey. You have lots of company here, including me!

Just wanted to point out that a cup of nuts is about 4.5 oz. So OP is averaging less than 1/5 oz nuts per day, or is having one ounce of nuts every 5 days. In other words, OP isn't chowing down on the nuts.

And then another point, a LOT of people get a stall or a plateau or whatever you want to call it at 3-4 weeks. I really think it is part of the mechanism of switching our food sources to LC and I really think the best thing to do is hang tight and don't freak out.

Garlic 06-13-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella (Post 16468729)
You say "in 3 weeks I have eaten less than a cup of nuts."
And then you say in next post. "I really don't eat nuts...."

This is how carbs creep in. I would encourage you to record all your carbs.
I also agree that if you are really impatient for loss, to go to 20 carbs and stick to induction foods. It's your choice, of course, but that's the path that works for many.

Yes you have a lot of weight to lose, but so do lots of people here and the trick if there is one is patience and persistance. I think throwing away the scale might work better for you than obsessing about a few llbs in your early days, but that is a matter of opinion and others will have a different opinion. You are in this for the long term return, so I'd say continue to seek feedback and settle in for the long term, as you may need to eat at these levels for a long time.

Good luck on your journey. You have lots of company here, including me!

TY Bella.... as I have said, I log and weigh EVERYTHING I eat and post it online. Yes, I rarely eat nuts.... and have eaten less than a cup in 3 weeks. There are NO CARBS creeping in. If it touches my tongue, it gets logged. :laugh: And I have not once exceeded 30 GROSS carbs since the 3rd or 4th day. It wasn't until that day that I decided I was not low carb enough.

So, yeah, anyway. I will weigh myself tomorrow, and then put the scale up in the 3rd floor bathroom for 2 weeks....

Also, what I find strange is my lack of bowel movements.... I don't feel constipated by any means, but pre LC, I was 3x a day... now it is once every 2 days.... even went 3 days once without one. I don't know why that is, but I am guessing that it partially means that I am not eating too much... but like I said, I know EXACTLY what goes into my mouth.... I even log water one way, while logging a diet Pepsi, or Crystal Light Iced Tea, another way.

As you all can see, I am not a patient man.... LOL, but when we had kids 12 years ago, I developed 10x more patience that I had before they were born... then, I was pretty hard to live with. Can you imagine that? :hyst:

Patience 06-13-2013 09:08 AM

You may find you weigh less when BMs regularize. You are defnitely eating less.
(I never talked this way before joining this forum ha ha, but weight is weight).

Not to beat a dead drum, but NUTs do stall lots of people, so if no progress after a few more weeks, please reconsider what your 30 carbs are comprised of. You could then consider posting some menus, although you'll get some replies from cranks like me. I'd put a smiley here, but where are they when I need one?

Work on the patience. That's a challenge for me, too, but what else are we to do but stay the course? I can't consider the alternative. Good luck!

scintillady 06-13-2013 09:50 AM

I have only lost 3 pounds in 5 weeks, and I started at 190. I was very discouraged at first, but the fact that my belly fat has decreased significantly and I have gone down one jeans size keeps me at it. I have only weighed myself twice in 5 weeks and I am committed to not weighing again for at least another month. Weighing depresses me enough that I almost feel like giving up, so I am going to go by the way I feel and how I look from now on. Luckily I am not diabetic, but if I was, I think the better blood results would keep me at it also. I found that the biggest difference in belly fat loss is when I started taking CLA, a diet supplement. Some on here say that CLA slows weight loss, but it has done wonders for fat loss!

DD80 06-13-2013 09:56 AM

I just wanted to add that diet pepsi or crystal light can stall some people. I don't react well to them. Just an idea.


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