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Old 05-23-2013, 08:50 PM   #31
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I'm a moderator for sure. There are a few carby foods that I love and could not imagine never having again. I usually take about one weekend off a month and I have the high carb foods that I really love. I will also eat what I want when I am on vacation or for special occasions. I have no problem getting back on plan afterwards. I still eat the carby foods I really enjoy, but I don't eat them all the time. I also make sure the carby food is really worth it. I think this is a good balance for me, but we are all different.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:04 AM   #32
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:34 AM   #33
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I am a moderator, not an abstainer. It would be ridiculous for me to say that I will never, ever, EVER have ________ again in my life; particularly if it is something I love. And when I do indulge I don't even consider it "off plan" because it IS a part of my plan. I am not here just because I'm trying to lose some pounds, this way of eating is not just a means to an end because there is no end. This is not a diet. This is my life.

(and my life will continue to include a good french baguette, french fries and chocolate peanut butter cheesecake on rare occasions )

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Old 05-24-2013, 12:23 PM   #34
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I am a moderator, not an abstainer. It would be ridiculous for me to say that I will never, ever, EVER have ________ again in my life; particularly if it is something I love. And when I do indulge I don't even consider it "off plan" because it IS a part of my plan. I am not here just because I'm trying to lose some pounds, this way of eating is not just a means to an end because there is no end. This is not a diet. This is my life.

(and my life will continue to include a good french baguette, french fries and chocolate peanut butter cheesecake on rare occasions )


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Old 05-24-2013, 03:02 PM   #35
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Thank you, everybody, for weighing in on this post. I am still pondering this subject and you have all given me much to think about.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:31 PM   #36
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I simply cannot do moderation, ever. I will never be able to have a bite of cake or even a slice. I will havevthevwhole cake, all the ice cream and maybe a bag of cookies. So, I stat strictvzero carb cause the other option is an all out binge.
I wasn't going to post, but couldn't stop thinking about it:

This makes me feel kind of sad. I mean, I get where you're coming from, that carbs trigger more eating, etc.
However, having worked through my own "food issues" for years, I think that it is best to have peace with food, if at all possible.

Being a moderator---*By no means is it easy, but I think it's ideal.*
A healthier relationship with food.


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Old 05-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #37
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For some people, peace means knowing avoidance is healthiest for them.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:07 PM   #38
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The word moderation is kind of subjective. Not sure what moderation means really.

If you eat something once a month are you an abstainer or a moderator? Once a week? Once a day in 1/4 a serving size? Once a year in a HUGE serving size?

What makes you an abstainer?

I still consider myself an abstainer from certain foods though I eat them a couple times a month and in small amounts. And some foods I choose to indulge less frequently though really don't bother regulating the size. STILL- I abstain from them as a WOE.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:12 PM   #39
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I think to abstain means to avoid, completely.
To moderate means to allow it sometimes.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:14 PM   #40
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I just get SO tired of "good" vs. "bad" foods...

I chose to eat LC most of the time.
I will eat a bit of sugar or bread, at times, if I want to.
Then I keep living & eating LC...
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momov2boys View Post
I just get SO tired of "good" vs. "bad" foods...

I chose to eat LC most of the time.
I will eat a bit of sugar or bread, at times, if I want to.
Then I keep living & eating LC...
That works for you. And me, actually. But not for everyone. The key is knowing yourself.

As for moderation, like I said upthread, I only eat off plan foods twice or thrice a year. I plan for it, enjoy it, and get back 100% on plan with the next meal. That's what works for me. I don't see the value in eating off plan more often, and I don't see the value in complete abstention for me. It's also doesn't mean I'm not "living" when I choose not to partake. I live quite well, I enjoy my food, I enjoy my outings, I enjoy my loved ones, with or without simple carbs.

One thing to mention is that I don't have food cravings that I've seen described here. I like or love certain foods, but that's a different thing from a craving, physical or otherwise.

I know and love several people in OA, or GSA, or simply have particular food issues that I may not have, and for them, abstention is absolutely a healthy choice. That doesn't mean they're not enjoying their food, or don't have peace, it means that their peace comes in a different cloak than mine.

ETA: I have had several deadly food allergies since I was sixteen years old, and the list continues to grow. I must abstain from eating those foods, unless I want to end up taking another ambulance to the hospital, and maybe the next would be my last. I have no intention of ever knowingly eating any of my allergens again. I miss many of my banned foods (I mourned the latest addition of shrimp for a few weeks just a couple of months ago), but it is what it is. Maybe that's why I don't have the same sad feeling at the thought of complete abstention that has been expressed here. I know that life goes on, we make adjustments, and we find joy in other ways.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ntombi View Post
For some people, peace means knowing avoidance is healthiest for them.
I agree so much with this. Food is not the same as alcohol, but would we wish moderation upon an alcoholic? I do think some people have an addictive relationship with food, and if they cope by abstention from some foods, I hesitate to wish moderation on them.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #43
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I can only speak from my own experience, and avoidance landed me at an eating disorder.
At 97 lbs, my hair fell out, I lost my period, and was far from "healthy."
Just something to ponder for those with such black & white thinking--good & bad foods, etc.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:44 AM   #44
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Do not feel badly for me, I have never been so happy and at peace. I eat three amazing meals a day. I love eating. But, finally have no urge to purge my food. I eat and then do other stuff. I could eat fruit, sure. But, then I spend the rest of my day struggling with cravings. Plus, the sugar effects my emotional stability.
So? Why bother with all that? I do not feel deprived at all. I love burgers and steak and have no issues with eating them over and over. I am just so thrilled that I no longer want to purge after eating!
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:46 AM   #45
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The food I absatin from I consider an allergy. Some of them will make me violently ill and some will make me swell up or end of in the bathroom or in bed with migraines. Mentally, I know I can eat these if I choose to, but I choose to abstain from them to avoid the after effects. This black and white thinking that is not good for you is healthy for me. It is life or death for me. Very black and white.

Please don't feel sorry for me. I have a wonderful life today. I have maintained my weight loss for years so it works for me.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:30 AM   #46
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Yes, different things work for different people. I get that.
Cheers to however we can be happy & healthy !!!

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Old 05-25-2013, 09:51 AM   #47
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Interesting conversation . I don't think either is superior. There are many foods that are detrimental for some people. I think they are considered bad food choices for people who have health problems. i can see eliminating them as a necessity rather than a bad relationship with food. I am thinking of diabetics, people with wheat sensitivity and thyroid issues . I am sure there is a ton of other reasons people choose to abstain including not enjoying those foods anymore.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #48
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I don't think I really fit neatly into either group anymore.

There are a lot of foods I will never, ever eat again because they contain/are GMO, chemicals, etc. I don't really consider those things to be food any longer and believe them to be dangerous. It has nothing to do with losing weight & I'll never eat them again no matter what.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:31 PM   #49
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I was reading a great article on food addiction and the phenomenon of craving. It talked about the difference between

--a normal eater who is overweight where the problem is physical and will power is sufficient to correct; diet, exercise, support system are all that is needed;
vs
--an emotional eater with an eating disorder where the problem is physical and emotional and moderation along with expressing feelings is sufficient to correct; needs diet, exercise, support system, and devloping skills to express feelings and resolving past traumas;
vs
--a food addict with a chemical dependency where the problem is physical, emotional and spiritual - abnormal response to food with physical craving, mental obsession and self-will run riot as the result. Surendering i.e. deep acceptance is needed to resolve including Abstinance from binge foods; rigorous honesty about thoughts and feelings and a disciplined spiritual approach.

It sort of explains why and when someone may be able to use moderation as the workable solution and someone else may need abstinence.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:41 AM   #50
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MaryMary, I would love to read that article! I truly think I'm the third one. I'm trying to be in tune with my body and I have learned so much about myself over the past year.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #51
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This is somewhat off-topic,because I am talking about a different kind of "moderation" but this is something that has been on my mind lately.

I have two very old and dear friends who were always the "everything in moderation" types. Never wanted to do Atkins because "any diet that tells you not to eat a vegetable like potatoes can't be good for you" and "you need all four food groups."

Well, all that moderation (which is not the same moderation as is being discussed here) got them was heavier and heavier until they each had weight loss surgery. Now, I don't begrudge anyone WLS, I know it isn't "the easy way out" or anything even close. My point is, they had to have their intestines rewired to be able to lose weight eating what they believed was a healthy diet. How is that moderate?
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:11 PM   #52
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Definitely a moderator. I don't feel that any foods did me wrong, I am the one that made myself fat by eating too much of the wrong foods, I chose what to eat. I don't consider any food inherently bad, except maybe trans fat and super processed fake foods with 50 ingredients.

I've been maintaining now for about 5 years and that has been with off-plan/higher carb foods. I eat cake, I eat pizza, I eat beans/grains,etc. But, I always make sure to have the best possible quality food- so cake is homemade and not supermarket brand, and pizza is mom and pop type, not frozen or Domino's, and chili is one I make with good meat, not fast food chili with mystery meat. And, then I have a small amount of whatever food I want and go right back to my regular/daily lower carb eating with proteins, tons of veg, and some fat.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:08 PM   #53
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I agree GME! I think that people are so addicted to certain foods that they can't think rational about the subject.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:12 PM   #54
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I am interested in the article as well.

I think I would put myself in the first category, or maybe somewhere between one and two, and I'm in denial.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean View Post
I'm a moderator for sure. There are a few carby foods that I love and could not imagine never having again. I usually take about one weekend off a month and I have the high carb foods that I really love. I will also eat what I want when I am on vacation or for special occasions. I have no problem getting back on plan afterwards. I still eat the carby foods I really enjoy, but I don't eat them all the time. I also make sure the carby food is really worth it. I think this is a good balance for me, but we are all different.


Yup! That's pretty much how I approach it, and it works well for me.
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