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Old 05-15-2013, 07:06 AM   #1
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Vent: Fear of Fats.

I have a couple of friends who are afraid to eat fats. Or at least, what we low carbers call 'a good amount'.

There's a local chain of health food restaurants that just opened up in our gym. My friend was upset because she said it's "junk", too "high in fat and calories". Mind you, she's weightwatcher queen. Sure she lost weight doing it, but she also works out like a crazy person. Anyway, I told her, don't be afraid of fats and she got all high-horsed on me. Whatever....

Then my other friend is emailing me this morning telling me she's starving. I ask her what she's eating. "Grilled chicken and leftover grilled veggies". Me: "Okay did you add any olive oil to that?". Her: "WHAT?! Heck no, it was already cooked with two teaspoons of it!".

I just...

I'm just going to keep doing what I do....and let the fat fearers be hungry.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:13 AM   #2
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Google: What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie? Not sure if I can share the article's link or not
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:18 AM   #3
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Google: What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie? Not sure if I can share the article's link or not
I know all about that! But trying to show it to others when they have in their minds that what they're doing is the be all & end all is tough.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:21 AM   #4
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If they don't ask, leave it alone. I don't want unsolicited opinions on my WOE, so I don't give them to others.


Even when I know they're wrong.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:46 AM   #5
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People do not understand that fat is healthy IF you are not eating it along with carbs. I eat fairly low cal so I choose my fats where they add the most flavor and texture.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:47 AM   #6
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People do not understand that fat is healthy IF you are not eating it along with carbs. I eat fairly low cal so I choose my fats where they add the most flavor and texture.
Oh yeah - and my WW friend's diet is VERY carb heavy. Plus she buys all that packaged junk from them too. I wish people paid more attention to ingredients rather than nutrional facts.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:50 AM   #7
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For people who eat a high carb diet it's probably better if they eat lower fat. I would just smile and nod.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:58 AM   #8
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Send her over here! See if we can talk some sense into her!
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:18 AM   #9
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I would sympathize with a friend and let her go ahead and vent about her frustration and then let it go. No matter what plan anyone is on, weight loss is hard for all of us, and everybody is going to have their bad days when they feel burned out, dissatisfied, or when they are questioning their progress, etc.


If I were very hungry, adding more olive oil to my vegetables would do exactly nothing to make me feel more full. Maybe that is the case for that person as well. Sometimes our well intended advice is really more about our enthusiasm for our own regimen that it is applicable to someone else's diet. I don't think most of us would like it if we were having a hard time with our weight loss and someone confidently told us we needed to be more eating healthy whole grains, because they firmly believed that was "right" and we were "wrong".

I think there are plenty of sympathetic weight-loss experiences we can share, regardless of any differences in our approach to it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:37 AM   #10
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I'm with the smile and nod crowd. One can't educate others until the other is ready and willing to listen. And we need to face the fact that "fat fear" is SOOOOO culturally ingrained for the past 30-40 years that many have grown up never knowing anything else.

I'm just glad that someone turned me on to Gary Taubes' writings--they have literally saved my life. His books have also forever changed how I look at and read research/studies.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:52 AM   #11
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We have no reason to assume those other two women "need" to be doing low-carb vs. whatever they are doing. If someone has been morbidly obese and has a family history of diabetes and insulin resistance, and there seems to be a genetic propensity toward obesity, then yeah, maybe they could benefit from learning about how carbs impact their type of body. But that isn't the case for everybody...we can all learn things about weight loss, even when we think we have discovered the holy grail and found something that seems so counter to conventional thinking. The fact is, conventional thinking still works just fine for a lot of people.

I also don't like the labeling of it as a "fear" of fat. I am sure a lot of people think low-carbers are "afraid" of carbs, too. No, we just don't eat a lot of them. I'm sure it seems funny to people when we ask for no croutons on a salad or ask about whether something is breaded or not--"Oh come on, you've got to be kidding, a few carbs are not going to kill you." I just think we should extend the same courtesy.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:52 AM   #12
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I would sympathize with a friend and let her go ahead and vent about her frustration and then let it go. No matter what plan anyone is on, weight loss is hard for all of us, and everybody is going to have their bad days when they feel burned out, dissatisfied, or when they are questioning their progress, etc.


If I were very hungry, adding more olive oil to my vegetables would do exactly nothing to make me feel more full. Maybe that is the case for that person as well. Sometimes our well intended advice is really more about our enthusiasm for our own regimen that it is applicable to someone else's diet. I don't think most of us would like it if we were having a hard time with our weight loss and someone confidently told us we needed to be more eating healthy whole grains, because they firmly believed that was "right" and we were "wrong".

I think there are plenty of sympathetic weight-loss experiences we can share, regardless of any differences in our approach to it.


Amen to those words. Whatever works for each individual works. Period. I've done low healthy fats on my Low-Glycemic-Index diet and it's worked for me.

Why criticize others when LCers don't like being criticized? And yes, I've done Atkins in the late '90s so it's been a choice for me, not ignorance.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:52 AM   #13
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In one sense I agree with Ntombi (smile and nod) and Peanutte (respect others' approaches), but the problem comes when one has a really dear friend or family member whose health is in danger.

I have a dear, dear friend who is borderline diabetic (diabetes runs in her family--with relatives who have had amputations from uncontrolled sugar damage--as does heart disease) and who has high blood pressure and who is struggling with her weight. She is Filipino and loves fatty cuts of meat/barbecue but hardly ever allows herself that pleasure because she believes she must cut fat to lose weight. And of course the idea of cutting rice out of her diet just seems impossible to her.

Honestly, it's really very difficult to resist the urge to literally force a copy of WWGF on her, and bug her to read it. She is an older mom with two young kids (like me) and I know she wants to be around and healthy for her family as long as possible.

I feel that promoting a WOE that is clearly supported by current research as being able to actually reverse chronic disease processes is a bit different than promoting low-fat just because that's the common wisdom. If I had a dear friend who was really concerned about my saturated fat intake--and had a solid, current research-based argument/book to back it up--I would be very appreciative and certainly look into any materials in support of her point of view she wanted to offer me.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #14
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Everyone's got their diet struggles- listen to them and try to offer some compassion and they will do the same for you when you are having a hard time on your diet.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #15
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I think the key is being mindful of one eats regardless of low carb or low fat. Weight Watchers is extremely popular because it works. And no low fat diet I know of encourages sugar and simple carbs if the fear is diabetes and health concerns. If done right, a low fat diet with lean proteins, many veggies and fruits as well as some whole grains and legumes DOES WORK for many, many people. There are manyvegans in excellent health. Our way is not the only way.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:23 AM   #16
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Leave it alone. It keeps the price of butter and bacon down.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #17
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That's a nice pragmatic view . . . . love your oil painting (even as a miniature).

I have a close friend who went vegan . . . . I feel she really is judging my plate, but that may just be my imagination.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:37 AM   #18
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Leave it alone. It keeps the price of butter and bacon down.
Good point!
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #19
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I would not blame a vegan for judging a meat eater's plate, because many vegans have more than just a dietary interest in veganism. I wouldn't go out of my way to not eat the way I eat around a vegan, but if she were super strict and passionate about it, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be really uncomfortable looking at a big steak on my plate and I wouldn't try to convince her to take a bite or warn her about anemia.

To me the bottom line is: what's important to me or you is not necessarily important to someone else. If I were entertaining a recovering alcoholic, I wouldn't assume he was okay with drinks being served around the table--I might ask him ahead of time how he felt about it being served or not. And I certainly wouldn't be telling him that studies have shown that a glass of wine is actually good for us and we shouldn't be afraid of alcohol. That's not a perfect comparison, but it's somewhere in the ballpark.


It's different, to some degree, when we are in a forum like this where it's already assumed that we agree about various diet-related things, or are at least on a similar track and in possession of the same information, for the most part. I think that allows for more healthy debate and even disagreement, which can cause us to look at things from different perspectives.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #20
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I don't know. One of my best friends is vegan. We eat together all the time, with her eating what she eats and me eating what I eat. We don't judge each other for our dietary choices.

Yes, she's vegan for ethical reasons, and I respect her reasoning, but that doesn't make her like an alcoholic around booze. Same with all my vegan and vegetarian friends; it's simply not an issue. I grew up in a community (and then went to a crunchy granola college) that was rife with vegetarians, vegans, and others who made choices along those lines, and, but for a six month period when I lost my head, I have lived my life as a carnivore among them. Mostly it was a personal thing, and pretty live and let live.

Now, I do know a few who act like you describe, but they tend to be tiresome in other ways too, which doesn't make me yearn to hang out with them.

But I think when we're not used to eating in a way that's very different from others, we can feel self conscious, whether they're judging us or not. That's human nature, I think. We're socialized to view eating as a communal activity, to share and commune over food, and when we choose to eat differently from one another, that means we have to change the dynamic at least a bit.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:54 PM   #21
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I wasn't actually saying vegans are like alcoholics.

I was using two distinct examples of people whose choices might intersect with mine, who I might feel like accommodating if I know what is important to them and understand why. As you pointed out, we don't eat or drink in total isolation; there is going to have to be some give and take with others.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #22
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I got it. I've just never had anyone ask me not to eat meat or animal derivatives in their presence. Not serving it in their home is a different question of course.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:47 PM   #23
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I would sympathize with a friend and let her go ahead and vent about her frustration and then let it go. No matter what plan anyone is on, weight loss is hard for all of us, and everybody is going to have their bad days when they feel burned out, dissatisfied, or when they are questioning their progress, etc.


If I were very hungry, adding more olive oil to my vegetables would do exactly nothing to make me feel more full.
DITTO!! to this a hundred times!

Honestly, if your friend is keeping her weight in check and exercising, I think that's GREAT!!! She deserves praise... she's ahead of many people in that regard. I wouldn't sit there criticizing her diet. Grilled chicken and veggies sounds perfectly healthy.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:55 AM   #24
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I think the key is being mindful of one eats regardless of low carb or low fat. Weight Watchers is extremely popular because it works. And no low fat diet I know of encourages sugar and simple carbs if the fear is diabetes and health concerns. If done right, a low fat diet with lean proteins, many veggies and fruits as well as some whole grains and legumes DOES WORK for many, many people. There are manyvegans in excellent health. Our way is not the only way.


I agree!
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:09 AM   #25
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I personally don't think there is any right way or wrong way to eat. Different things work for different people. I never had success with WW but I know it does work for a lot of other people. I'm with Ntombi, I would just let it go. When it comes to friendship, I don't think agruing over food or a WOE is really worth it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:15 AM   #26
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I personally don't think there is any right way or wrong way to eat. Different things work for different people. I never had success with WW but I know it does work for a lot of other people. I'm with Ntombi, I would just let it go. When it comes to friendship, I don't think agruing over food or a WOE is really worth it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:53 AM   #27
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I personally don't think there is any right way or wrong way to eat. Different things work for different people. I never had success with WW but I know it does work for a lot of other people. I'm with Ntombi, I would just let it go. When it comes to friendship, I don't think agruing over food or a WOE is really worth it.
Does WW really work? I vaguely remember an article that long-time members lost a couple of pounds over all (one article estimated 6% reached goal weight). As far as I can tell, it has the same success rate as any other diet. Generally low-carb diets do well in head-to-head competitions with low-fat ones (see studies at Stanford, Duke, and Temple), but success falls off if people abandon them. That said, I'd aim for an "to each their own" approach.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:33 AM   #28
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As far as I can tell, it has the same success rate as any other diet. Generally low-carb diets do well in head-to-head competitions with low-fat ones (see studies at Stanford, Duke, and Temple), but success falls off if people abandon them.

Well, that is the problem right there. Diets only work if you are on them, and stay on them. So, whether people believe with all their hearts that their chosen type of diet is vastly superior for health and weight loss, the question remains, are you healthier, and have you lost weight? Does this seem to be working for you? I would regard a WW dieter who lost and regained, or lost and kept it off, through the same lens that I would look at a low carb dieter--or any other type of dieter.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:44 PM   #29
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Does WW really work? I vaguely remember an article that long-time members lost a couple of pounds over all (one article estimated 6% reached goal weight). As far as I can tell, it has the same success rate as any other diet. Generally low-carb diets do well in head-to-head competitions with low-fat ones (see studies at Stanford, Duke, and Temple), but success falls off if people abandon them. That said, I'd aim for an "to each their own" approach.
It did work for me in the past. Years ago I lost 70 pounds on old school WW and maintained for a number of years. The diet didn't fail me, I failed to maintain that WOE. I believe it is a good, solid program that teaches people how to eat for the long term. For me now, LC is a better choice, but that doesn't mean WW doesn't work for many others.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:51 PM   #30
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I'll be honest, 22 months into low-carbing, I still sometimes question the fat thing.
I spent 30 years avoiding fats - it is still hard to wrap my head around it sometimes.
So, I can imagine that someone who has no experience is going to question it. I don't bother trying to educate people unless they ask me.
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