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Old 05-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #31
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Being fat and unhealthy is never convenient. I have a very hard time believing that anyone chooses to eat in a way that makes them fat bc it's convenient. If that is their belief, then I think they're in denial.

Now if you're talking about 15 or 20 pounds, I don't know. I assume we're talking about actual fat people, otherwise I can't see where the judgement comes from, unless you can tell just by looking at them that they've got high cholesterol or something.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:05 AM   #32
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Being fat and unhealthy is never convenient. I have a very hard time believing that anyone chooses to eat in a way that makes them fat bc it's convenient. If that is their belief, then I think they're in denial.

.
Short term choices that are convenient often lead to long term weight gain. You pick up a bucket of chicken or decide to order pizza- all short term conveniences that aren't healthy in the long term. You decide to get fast food even if it's the healthier choice there because you don't want to waste time cooking. Take the elevator or escalator instead of walking. Just all examples of short cuts that lead to weight gain over time. And, yes being in denial about your weight gain is easy. I know, I did it for a while too- oh the pants shrunk, I'm just bloated from my period, that fast food isn't that bad because I had a salad with it, I don't have time to take the stairs.

It's quite easy to live outside of your body, not look at mirrors much, hide in pictures, and be in denial about it and how unhealthy you have become while you keep telling yourself that you absolutely have no time to cook and couldn't live without fast food or other convenience foods and that your doctor is a jerk for talking to you about your weight and blood tests. Again, all things I have experienced but quickly snapped out of because I realized all of that convenience wasn't so convenient after all when I considered what it was doing to my joints, heart, other organs, and mental health.

(the you isn't you, just a general you)

And, I do know people that are just a little fat and they really do think fast food is ok on a diet if they make "healthy" choices (things within their plan, whether it's low carb or low cal) and that cooking is a big waste of time.

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Old 05-14-2013, 11:52 AM   #33
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In the cases that I was referring to it was because of convenience, not because of comfort foods. they would prefer to get a wendy's salad and soup (things on their diet) rather than making it themselves.

But, I am glad that you are finally at a place where you are ready for Atkins.
I had a guy tell me once that there are two reasons people normally have for doing anything. 1) the real reason, and 2) a reason that sounds good. "Too busy" is among the number 2) responses. People can get a "bunnless" burger, or the salad you mentioned. Instead they get the big mac with fries and coke, and yes doublesize that please.
Convenience or comfort are interchangeable terms here. I spoke to a guy yesterday who was in this mode. Significantly overweight with health problems and bemoaning about how he just couldn't "do that" speaking of LC. No matter what the words that follow, the real reason is that he was not to the point in life where he was willing to experience the discomfort of doing something about it. Until people reach that point they will not change. Change is always painful and people always avoid pain, even the minor pain of a salad vs a burger if that is not their normal habit.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:55 AM   #34
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One of the things I appreciate most about deciding to lose my weight with Atkins, was that it got me cooking and made me a better shopper and planner.

It's not that I never cooked before low-carb, but this style of eating steered me toward learning some basics that, sad to say, I hadn't really learned. Just simple things like how easy it is to roast a whole chicken, cook a chicken breast without it being dry or flavorless, how to make the best omelets, how to make baby back ribs at home, how to make fresh vegetables, not frozen, how to make a vinaigrette--really, I learned how little time and effort it makes to do homemade meals.

And the best way to be ready to make these basic, low-carb meals is to shop with a plan in mind, and not just go wandering around parts of the store that don't pertain to my way of eating. So, actually, my grocery shopping is quicker and easier now than it was before. I just head straight for the meat and fish department, pick up my veggies and salad stuff, grab some eggs and maybe some cheese and I'm done. Sometimes there are extra things like herbal tea or vinegar or butter that need replacing, but my shopping is so much more efficient than it used to be.

Speaking for myself, I did used to eat a lot of takeout food before I got serious about weight loss. At the time, I honestly thought I was making some decent, healthier choices: fresh-made take and bake pizza, Chipotle burritos (which do have good ingredients in them), Subway--the kind of stuff where I would say, "It's not 'fast food', it's 'real food'!". At the time, I really didn't see how I was eating so poorly because it seemed normal, and it seemed "better than what a lot of people do". If I thought I wasn't eating junk, I don't know what I would have thought "junk" was at the time. There is always someone or something that is "worse" than what you're doing.

When I compare all that running around to get the takeout food (not to mention deciding what to get), and the general state of dietary disorganization in my life, to my basic low-carb cooking for the past few years, there is no comparison in terms of convenience (and, I save a lot more money).

I think we as a culture have gotten away from daily cooking, or a lot of us weren't taught by our baby-boomer moms. Not to mention, Home Ec. not being taught in schools any more. But, even if we don't know how, or find it awkward to try, there's no reason we can't make a change and learn some of this stuff at any point along the way. It can be gradual; we don't have to go to culinary school or watch lots of cooking shows. We don't have to gather lots of recipes and try to make elaborate things. Just learn by doing, which is learning by trial and error.

I think this is one of the greatest things I've gotten out of this diet. People talk about a "lifestyle" and I have never wanted to call my diet or weight loss a "lifestyle", because it's not, but I will say that this shopping-and-cooking stuff has made a big, positive impact on my everyday life.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:51 PM   #35
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It's quite easy to live outside of your body, not look at mirrors much, hide in pictures, and be in denial about it and how unhealthy you have become while you keep telling yourself that you absolutely have no time to cook and couldn't live without fast food or other convenience foods and that your doctor is a jerk for talking to you about your weight and blood tests. Again, all things I have experienced but quickly snapped out of because I realized all of that convenience wasn't so convenient after all when I considered what it was doing to my joints, heart, other organs, and mental health.
At what BMI were you when your doc had this talk w you? My doc gave me very gentle nudges after 180 pounds (maybe a 36 or 37 bmi for me) and then when I hit 200 pounds, he was like, whoa, we should do something. That was a bmi of about 40. This was my endo. During the same time period, I saw at least three different GP's and none of them ever said anything to me about it.

Anyway, this very well may be your experience, but it is not the experience of a person who is actually fat. An actually fat person may avoid mirrors, etc, but it would be impossible, barring some sort of mental disorder, to convince themselves that they are not fat and their doctor only brought it up bc she's a jerk. (I am not saying us fat people don't sometimes think our docs are jerks after that conversation, but it's not bc we've convinced ourselves that a bmi of 35 or 40 or more is actually a fun healthy weight to be at.)

If your actually fat friends are telling you that's how it is, I think Chuck41 hit the nail on the head for that one.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #36
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At what BMI were you when your doc had this talk w you? My doc gave me very gentle nudges after 180 pounds (maybe a 36 or 37 bmi for me) and then when I hit 200 pounds, he was like, whoa, we should do something. That was a bmi of about 40. This was my endo. During the same time period, I saw at least three different GP's and none of them ever said anything to me about it.

Anyway, this very well may be your experience, but it is not the experience of a person who is actually fat. An actually fat person may avoid mirrors, etc, but it would be impossible, barring some sort of mental disorder, to convince themselves that they are not fat and their doctor only brought it up bc she's a jerk. (I am not saying us fat people don't sometimes think our docs are jerks after that conversation, but it's not bc we've convinced ourselves that a bmi of 35 or 40 or more is actually a fun healthy weight to be at.)

If your actually fat friends are telling you that's how it is, I think Chuck41 hit the nail on the head for that one.
I am not sure what my BMI was, but I was around 150. Keep in mind that I was someone that had always been thin (100-110 pounds) and never had weight issues. And, I have a tiny frame so any extra weight makes me look even bigger than I am because it all goes to my face, chin(s), and stomach. The area of the country might make a difference- I once had a friend who was going to school in the south tell me that she had to go to the school clinic for something and they told her that she was too thin, and she must have been around 150 and 5'4.

I compare it to smoking- people smoke and know it's bad but they do it anyway. They don't need to have a mental disorder to do that, just a healthy dose of denial and a reliance on convenience and short term pleasure. They want that smoke now and don't want to think about what is happening to their lungs over the long term.

And, it is easy to delude yourself about your size- how many times has someone posted about not knowing how big they were really until they finally went to a doctor's office and were weighed or saw a full body picture of themselves.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:24 PM   #37
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So it sounds like your doctor pointed out that you needed to lose weight when you had a bmi of 24. I do believe that the bmi charts are bogus (my goal weight is in the overweight category, as that's where I think I will likely be healthiest), but that is beyond the pale and I wouldn't blame those fat folks w normal bmi's for just thinking their doctor was a jerk.

I do believe that fat people can and do delude themselves about just how big they are and/or how unhealthy or how bad they look. But that is not bc they are unaware that they are fat and unhealthy. It's bc it an be so painful to many of us that we cannot fully acknowledge it all the time. We have to believe that we always look like we do standing up straight in our favorite outfit (usually the only one that fits) in front of the mirror, bc to walk around thinking that we look like we did in that terrible unexpected candid shot where we looked like a big amorphous blob would be debilitating.

I'm just trying to say that, in general, fat people don't continue in their fat ways just bc it's *easier* bc it is never easier to be fat in this culture.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM   #38
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I know I have seen many, many posts over the years in which people were outraged and very hurt by a visit to the doctor's office. It may be true that people are aware they are heavy, but they don't realize how bad it is. Avoiding the scale, as many people do, leads to shocks and surprises in the doctor's office. I have been there. I knew I was heavier than I'd ever been in my life, by far, but I didn't know or see the full truth of it. I think this is pretty common, and not indicative of an extreme sort of avoidance or denial.

This is how it gets rationalized: "Oh my gosh, I weigh ____? No way. Well, I always thought that was a horrendously large weight, but I don't think I look that big, so therefore that weight must not be that big. I guess I must carry it well." (insert obligatory "After all, I wear a size ___" here.)

I'm not saying everybody does this, but a lot of people do. I did. Our eyes get used to things. We get used to the size of our bodies. That doesn't mean we're stupid or nuts, it just means we aren't objective and we don't see what we don't see.

I don't think that people get upset because their doctor is bringing up something about which they are entirely innocent and unaware. I think people get upset because it is brought up, period, and it's uncomfortable.

Many people opt for the "solution" to never go to the doctor unless they absolutely have to, which is sad.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #39
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I've been a cook my whole adult life, through low cal eating and high cal eating and high carb eating. I'm here to tell you that you can certainly get fat even if you cook your own food and are very conscientious about using healthy ingredients. I think it's easier to eat well on a low carb diet if you cook your own food simply because the culture is so oriented to the SAD junk. But it isn't a panacea.

Being fat is not a character flaw. It's not a a lack of discipline, delusion about what we look like or living in denial to try to lose and maintain by adapting the diet to real world situations. A lot of people truly are pressed for time and money and simply don't have a lot of cooking skills. They're doing the best they can with a tough intractable problem.

Moreover, no matter how much a person believes they have mastered their eating issues, nobody is immune to relapse, no matter how disciplined they are. One of my best friends recently put on a hundred pounds after a decade of successfully keeping her weight at 120. She said to me, "The worst thing is that I was just so cocky..."
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #40
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Short term choices can be easier even if the overall consequence is worse. Just look at procrastination- people put off taxes, doing important work projects, and studying for major tests. Short term- yes, it is definitely easier not to do or think about taxes and not to worry about studying or doing the work. Long term- big pain when you get audited, demoted at work, or fail a big test. It's like that with health as well. It is easier on a daily basis to just go straight for convenience foods and ignore the overall health problems that they are causing, or to keep smoking, or to keep being sedentary because it's much much easier to take the elevator and ride your car everywhere.

This gets quoted a lot here but it is true- being fat is hard, losing weight is hard, so pick your hard. And, I think until the hardness of being fat outweighs the discomfort and struggle from losing weight, then we will just keep doing the same thing.

A BMI of 24 was definitely overweight for me. And, it was such a drastic change that if he hadn't said anything then I'd be worried that he wasn't being thorough or perceptive enough.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #41
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Being fat is not a character flaw. It's not a a lack of discipline, delusion about what we look like or living in denial to try to lose and maintain by adapting the diet to real world situations. A lot of people truly are pressed for time and money and simply don't have a lot of cooking skills. They're doing the best they can with a tough intractable problem.

Moreover, no matter how much a person believes they have mastered their eating issues, nobody is immune to relapse, no matter how disciplined they are. One of my best friends recently put on a hundred pounds after a decade of successfully keeping her weight at 120. She said to me, "The worst thing is that I was just so cocky..."
You can eat very cheaply on things like eggs, chicken drumsticks and thighs, canned tuna and sardines, and by not wasting food. It is all the processed "fun"/snack foods that are super expensive and not very filling. And, basic recipes don't take more time than going through drive thrus, waiting to order, waiting for food, and driving back home.

That is true- relapse is common. This is why I weigh myself daily and immediately correct things if I am consistently 5 pounds over my goal weight.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #42
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I completely and emphatically agree that no one can afford to get cocky. I personally would never say I have it all figured out or that I'm done. To say or believe that maintenance is easy, or that I can coast though it as if regain is not a constant danger, would be asking for trouble.

I didn't say that cooking homemade food is some sort of magical answer. Certainly there are plenty of excellent cooks who happen to also be fat. I just wanted to tell how it has steered me in a more empowered direction, and I hope it works that way for others as well.

The actual state of being fat, as an adjective, as in "that person is fat" or "I am fat" is not a character description. But, I would not be speaking the truth if I said that some of the contributing factors for me were not related to character issues such as self awareness, discipline, and taking the easier route in the moment even though I wasn't happy with the results of all those incremental choices. That's for me. I'm not speaking for anyone else.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:02 PM   #43
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Short term choices can be easier even if the overall consequence is worse. Just look at procrastination- people put off taxes, doing important work projects, and studying for major tests. Short term- yes, it is definitely easier not to do or think about taxes and not to worry about studying or doing the work. Long term- big pain when you get audited, demoted at work, or fail a big test. It's like that with health as well. It is easier on a daily basis to just go straight for convenience foods and ignore the overall health problems that they are causing, or to keep smoking, or to keep being sedentary because it's much much easier to take the elevator and ride your car everywhere.
I completely agree that procrastination is a big issue. I do think there were a lot of days that I woke up and said I can start tomorrow. What I think you've got wrong is the reason for putting it off. I don't think there are almost any fat people who would be unwilling to go to the grocery store and cook a meal if they believed it would make them not fat. What is stopping many/most/all of them is the intense drive to eat the types and/or quantity of food that they are accustomed to. Some of us probably have other deep fears to contend w when we think about weight loss, like who will we even be if no longer the fat funny one, or what will I do if men start noticing me or how will this mess up my relationship that is in part built on my identity as a fat person, if I can't blame my fat any more, will it be more obvious that I'm deeply flawed in some other way?????

I just will never believe that people choose to be fat bc they're too lazy to make a decent meal. Plus, I've got 1 1/2 former fat people in my family who hardly ever eat a real meal or cook anything substantial for themselves. Dh has lost more than 60 pounds in the last few years and I doubt that he's cooked for himself more than 3 times in the last five years. The last several nights he's stood in the kitchen eating slices of cheddar and salami while we chat and I make dinner for the kids. He has not changed his lazy food prep ways one iota. And neither have I. I often don't work any harder at it than slicing an avocado in half and spooning a little salsa onto it for my meal.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:39 PM   #44
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At what BMI were you when your doc had this talk w you? My doc gave me very gentle nudges after 180 pounds (maybe a 36 or 37 bmi for me) and then when I hit 200 pounds, he was like, whoa, we should do something. That was a bmi of about 40. This was my endo. During the same time period, I saw at least three different GP's and none of them ever said anything to me about it.

Anyway, this very well may be your experience, but it is not the experience of a person who is actually fat. An actually fat person may avoid mirrors, etc, but it would be impossible, barring some sort of mental disorder, to convince themselves that they are not fat and their doctor only brought it up bc she's a jerk. (I am not saying us fat people don't sometimes think our docs are jerks after that conversation, but it's not bc we've convinced ourselves that a bmi of 35 or 40 or more is actually a fun healthy weight to be at.)

If your actually fat friends are telling you that's how it is, I think Chuck41 hit the nail on the head for that one.
I had a doctor bring it up and thought she was a jerk. I was a new patient in her office and came in with a specific (non weight-related) problem. She briefly went over my issue and then said that we needed to talk about my weight. She said "Oh my god - look how much you weigh!" Now if she had taken time to read the history that I filled out - or even if she had asked, she would have found out that I just lost thirty pounds and was on a doctor supervised weight loss program run by one of the best clinics in the area.

I thought she was a jerk because she showed that she didn't see me as a patient coming in with a medical issue, but as a fatty-fatty-bombalatty who is so stupid she doesn't even know she's fat. If she had spent more time with my real medical condition and/or actually read the reams of information I filled out - I might be more forgiving.

My very normal-sized (not overweight) coworker has a doctor fat-shaming her right now. Her BMI is 24. She's got herself so worked up that I really feel bad for her.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #45
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I've been a cook my whole adult life, through low cal eating and high cal eating and high carb eating. I'm here to tell you that you can certainly get fat even if you cook your own food and are very conscientious about using healthy ingredients. I think it's easier to eat well on a low carb diet if you cook your own food simply because the culture is so oriented to the SAD junk. But it isn't a panacea.

Being fat is not a character flaw. It's not a a lack of discipline, delusion about what we look like or living in denial to try to lose and maintain by adapting the diet to real world situations. A lot of people truly are pressed for time and money and simply don't have a lot of cooking skills. They're doing the best they can with a tough intractable problem.

Moreover, no matter how much a person believes they have mastered their eating issues, nobody is immune to relapse, no matter how disciplined they are. One of my best friends recently put on a hundred pounds after a decade of successfully keeping her weight at 120. She said to me, "The worst thing is that I was just so cocky..."
I lost 40 lbs on low carb between 1999 and 2000, and kept the weight off for 3 years. In 2003 I lost my job and became depressed after a few months. By the end of the year I had gained 50 lbs from stress eating. It had nothing to do with not knowing how to cook or eat healthy.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:18 PM   #46
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My biggest mistake was thinking "low fat" was the way to stay thin and spent years and years eating high carb, low fat. Not really realizing or noticing that I was packing on the pounds. Probably because I was over-eating constantly which is what carbs do to some people. I hate the fact that the trends went low fat for so long. I didn't realize when I was an overweight teenager that is was the carbs that were causing the problem. I assumed it was the fat and cut it out of my diet. That lead to all sorts of problems. I have a small frame so 30lbs of extra fat just turns me into a medium framed person. No one ever said to me that I was putting on too much weight. And also women's clothing sizes must have been getting smaller because I was getting bigger but yet my clothing sizes were staying the same. Then one day I saw a picture of myself and I was shocked at how big I had become. To this day I don't even understand how I could have been in such denial.

I personally don't find low carb all that inconvenient at all. The only time it is ever an issue is when I am in a situation where the meal is catered and I have literally no choice except a high carb lunch. But other than that, its pretty easy.

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Old 05-19-2013, 07:38 AM   #47
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Our carb addicted society today is a killer. Look around you in a Wall Mart, church, or other gathering. When I was a kid people didn't look like that. Sure we had a few fat kids in school, but they were part of a small minority. Back then in the grocery aisles we didn't find suggary cereals, sweet cakes and the like. Modern diet is the problem. We are taught at an early age today to go for the carby stuff and flush it down with sugary drinks. Obesity and diabetes are epidemic as a direct result.

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Old 05-20-2013, 04:45 AM   #48
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I think our society as a whole underestimates just how addictive carbs can be. I am very low carb (under 50g net) and I do work at it. The other day, I was visiting and the host had an open bowl of plain almonds out for a snack. Great, a low carb snack. But I noticed that I had trouble stopping at just a few. Nuts are great, but in the natural world, prehistoric humans would have had to collect them and crack them open with rocks to get at them. And fight the other species that also would be eating nuts for survival.

I think people would like to lose weight but it is just too hard for most people to commit to. You have to be able to let go of things like "feeling the need to be successful in the short term." It takes a really long time to get to the goal, so you have to be able to enjoy the process around the way. A lot of things one hears like: "I wouldn't be able to give up ______ (bread, sugar)" or "I just can't afford it" or "I just don't have the time." are basically excuses to escape the challenge. Which is fine, no one it is necessary to live as a thin person. People are allowed to choose being overweight or fat if they want.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:04 AM   #49
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I always hesitate judging others without being in their shoes. I have a job, income, children grown. It would be a whole ''nother story if I were unemployed, single parent, living in a food desert. I agree much comes down to the individual, but I also believe our society is structured in such a way that makes losing weight really hard.

I agree completely about the nuts. I was thankful to have some at a reception I attended last week, where I was able to have a small handful and some low carb veggies with a dip. But I am not sure if I'll be able to have them at home again.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:47 AM   #50
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 396
Gallery: Avicenna
Stats: 215/190's/somewhere in the 170's
WOE: 30 day whole food challenge
Start Date: July 2011 (JUDDD in February 2012)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
Being fat and unhealthy is never convenient. I have a very hard time believing that anyone chooses to eat in a way that makes them fat bc it's convenient. If that is their belief, then I think they're in denial.
I have definitely been in situations in my life where I did not have the resources, time, mobility, and/or facilities to exert much control over my choice of food. (I'd rather not go into details.) That did not always lead to getting fatter, but in one case it did. For some people, I am sure it is a matter of denial; but that doesn't mean it's always the case for everyone.

Fortunately I am not in that situation now but I am sympathetic to those who are in that situation.

However, I agree there is nothing convenient or cheap about being significantly overweight or unhealthy - that is something one pays for in one way or another.

Last edited by Avicenna; 05-20-2013 at 07:50 AM..
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