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rubidoux 04-20-2013 09:04 PM

When you eat (or ate) carbs...
 
did you crave the overfull feeling you got from over-eating them? I find that when I eat low carb foods, I never want to over eat. Even when I'm breaking a 24 hour fast, and a few times even after 40 hours of fasting, I have not had any compulsion to over eat and in fact had pretty normal sized meals as if I'd been eating regularly all along. BUT when I'm eating carbs, I don't want to stop until I feel really overfull and I like that overfull feeling, it's satisfying somehow. I kind of crave it. Does this sound familiar to anyone, or is it just me? :p

Ntombi 04-20-2013 09:13 PM

I don't like that overfull feeling, but I get it with some foods, even while LCing. In fact, I have to be careful when I eat tuna salad, because I can very easily eat too much before I've realized it, and then I'm full (overfull) for hours. It's not that I'm eating past full at the time, but tuna salad seems to take a bit to catch up (or I eat it too quickly), and it always seems to take less of it than I think to be satisfied.

cfine 04-20-2013 09:46 PM

I do this too. LC feels so much better on my tummy.

Spanilingo 04-21-2013 12:43 AM

I think it's a texture thing. I can only eat so much meat or broccoli. The foods are dense and take time to chew and swallow. They are heavy. Tuna is flakey and soft.... Easy to eat a lot of canned tuna.

Carb foods are delicious , easy to chew, get mushy , don't feel so heavy, even then I could eat one or two pieces of heavy dense bran bread compared to limitless white bread .... Again... Texture and density .

Leo41 04-21-2013 01:40 AM

Carbs stimulate my appetite--and I can be hungry within 30 min. of a full meal. However, I can overeat anything, carbs, low carb doesn't matter.

I don't get the terrific appetite suppression that most do from ketosis, so in order to lose (and maintain), I have to always count calories. My body doesn't seem to have a 'stop' signal when it comes to eating.

nolcjunk 04-21-2013 04:06 AM

No, I don't get a desire to overeat them. I actually hate that overfull feeling, whether it's from carbs or lc. It's uncomfortable and makes me feel like a hibernating bear, all I want to do is lie down and wait till it passes.

But, I also have high carb stuff a few times a month, so it's not like I am deprived of them and waiting to have them (which I think could lead to overeating). They're just another part of my diet.

Punkin 04-21-2013 04:19 AM

I loved stuffing myself when I was eating HC. But I think this had more to do with the addictive relationship with carbs as opposed to anything else. I can also overeat on a LC HF diet, so I do count calories roughly just so that I have a sense of why I have this tendency. The main difference for me when I overeat on a HF diet as opposed to a HC diet, is that I can overeat on a HC diet and still feel hungry! On a HF, LC diet when I overeat I usually feel no desire to keep eating once my brain registers that I have eaten too much. I will go to bed and skip breakfast the next day. And sometimes even eat less calories the next day without feeling deprived, so my body catches up much better with the extra food.

This is really good compared to HC overeating, where it just seemed to be an endless cycle of overeating and storing the extra food as fat without my brain registering and saying: "hey I think we have enough stored fat here, we don't need anymore thanks." I like the automatic self regulation that happens with the LC HF diet. It is also less stressful because I don't have to worry so much about the calories and how much I am overeating, because I know my appetite will self regulate. This will become useful when I am finally in maintenance mode! 8)

Julie1972 04-21-2013 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubidoux (Post 16385205)
did you crave the overfull feeling you got from over-eating them? I find that when I eat low carb foods, I never want to over eat. Even when I'm breaking a 24 hour fast, and a few times even after 40 hours of fasting, I have not had any compulsion to over eat and in fact had pretty normal sized meals as if I'd been eating regularly all along. BUT when I'm eating carbs, I don't want to stop until I feel really overfull and I like that overfull feeling, it's satisfying somehow. I kind of crave it. Does this sound familiar to anyone, or is it just me? :p

I know exactly what you're talking about! I had a larger than normal dinner last night and I was telling my husband that it was the first time in a long time that I felt really full. I rarely seem to eat to that point while on LC, but it was an almost daily thing prior to this WOE.

Biochic 04-21-2013 05:32 AM

Yes, I would eat carby foods until stuffed. I was just thinking about this yesterday! My portion sizes are much closer to normal....I think:stars: when eating on plan. Even if I go back back for seconds, the first portion is small so the second one doesn't make me feel stuffed. I am so much more in control when eating properly:)

raindroproses 04-21-2013 07:10 AM

Yeah, I actually read somewhere that that's how starchy simple carbs work on our systems... they actually CAUSE cravings when we eat them which in turn facilitates overeating. It's a vicious cycle for me too. Eat rice/pasta/bread/sweets... crave more of them. Eat more of them... overeat. Overeat... gain all the weight back. That's why I don't have "cheat" meals like a lot of people do, and I don't plan on adding back any of those foods when I'm in maintenance. It's just not worth battling those cravings again because in all likelihood? I probably will NOT win that battle :annoyed:

And the wanting to be over-full story reminds me of when I used to eat at Mongolian BBQ. All you can eat, so it was a nightmare for me. I used to stuff myself SO full that I was literally in pain and had to recline the passenger seat of my car all the way back to lay down on the way home because I felt so awful :o

Patience 04-21-2013 07:11 AM

Spani, what you say about texture and density makes sense to me.
I wonder how much of the comfort in "comfort foods" is about texture.
Sure some of it is emotional, and some physiologica, but I think there is something textural about many of my old favs. l

Geekin' in Utah 04-21-2013 08:07 AM

Most high-carb foods are stuffed with fructose (through sugar or high-fructose corn syrup, which amount to about the same thing), which doesn't affect grehlin production in the stomach. Grehlin is the "my stomach is full" hormone and, under normal conditions, is reduced as fatty acids start getting stored during digestion, but fructose short-circuits it. It's why you can stuff yourself silly on cookies.

Further down the digestive track, another hormone gets release (can't remember it now :(). This is the one that says "I'm DONE!" You really have to work eating past its signal. High fiber foods trigger this earlier, because they move through the small intestine faster. A plate of pasta, with almost no fiber, will take much longer to trigger this one than the cup of broccoli.

Taken together and added to cravings caused by blood sugar bouncing all over and the additional fatty acid created by the liver when processing fructose, they provide quite the quadruple-threat to the body. So, while occasionally I'll still have cravings for that "munch for an evening" feeling, the rational part of my mind does a good job of reminding me the damage it causes, both that I can see around my waist and that I can't see around my organs.

Olive Oil 04-21-2013 09:20 AM

Gosh, that's interesting. Now that I think of it, I'm not over-eating like I used to. I have my meals, finish them, and am done. Hmm...

Gladiator 04-21-2013 09:35 AM

Now I really enjoy tasty food before I enjoyed "filling" myself. I struggled to eat by right way. I felt that it was difficult. If I gave up smoking, it was clear no cigarettes but if you want to eat what our bodies needed it is difficult we can not overeat ourself or to be anorectic.

rubidoux 04-21-2013 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geekin' in Utah (Post 16385589)
Most high-carb foods are stuffed with fructose (through sugar or high-fructose corn syrup, which amount to about the same thing), which doesn't affect grehlin production in the stomach. Grehlin is the "my stomach is full" hormone and, under normal conditions, is reduced as fatty acids start getting stored during digestion, but fructose short-circuits it. It's why you can stuff yourself silly on cookies.

Further down the digestive track, another hormone gets release (can't remember it now :(). This is the one that says "I'm DONE!" You really have to work eating past its signal. High fiber foods trigger this earlier, because they move through the small intestine faster. A plate of pasta, with almost no fiber, will take much longer to trigger this one than the cup of broccoli.

Taken together and added to cravings caused by blood sugar bouncing all over and the additional fatty acid created by the liver when processing fructose, they provide quite the quadruple-threat to the body. So, while occasionally I'll still have cravings for that "munch for an evening" feeling, the rational part of my mind does a good job of reminding me the damage it causes, both that I can see around my waist and that I can't see around my organs.

I wonder if it is this mess up with chemical signals for me. It could be. And as a type I diabetic, I also don't have any amylase, which is made by the same cells that make insulin and it's supposed to tell your brain that you're done eating. I can get amylase and inject it separately from my insulin (PITA), but you can only use it with a meal that is >20 g carb, so that's out for me. Some type I's have had luck losing with it, though.

I have paid a lot of attention to how and what I have wanted to eat these last couple of years, both on and off plan, and I have to say that when I'm eating carbs it is a whole different kettle of fish. I have really paid attention to my fullness while eating carbs and could see as it was happening that I was full but not yet feeling the sensation that I was craving, over-fullness. It wasn't about the yumminess of the food, I don't think, though I'm sure if it wasn't yummy I wouldn't have wanted to keep eating it. I also have the effect of being "hungry" for carbs again a half an hour, and throughout the rest of the day.

I have definitely come to appreciate a feeling of emptiness that I have now while I'm IF'ing and I feel like it is related to just feeling like my body is working properly. But I don't think that feeling will ever be as strong as the need for fullness when eating carbs. Like, I think this is how I'll feel as long as I'm on plan, but the minute I eat carbs, BAM!, I'm right back to that old need for overfullness.

Z-Baby 04-22-2013 09:47 AM

I'm kind of like that with eating carbs. I eat until I am overfull...but I feel it is b/c I think that I am going to miss out on a good taste. Then after I am done, I feel so full and so sick and so ashamed. No bueno.

3fatcats 04-23-2013 03:24 AM

LC does not give me a full feeling at all. I'm mulling this over lately. It totally controls the cravings. Yes it does. But I don't have a sense of satisfaction from it....almost like food is fuel, not for enjoyment. It's real hard to get past that since food has been used forever for celebration. And you are right, it takes one delicious carby meal to start the need again. Sad to say though, NOTHING gives me food satisfaction like my fav family pizza restaurant down tne street. Nothing.

You would think eating this way- all the fat, cheese, creams and meat would be satisfying to me, but it leaves me feeling empty. Not hungry mind you, just, empty. I've got to get my head around that food is FUEL and I don't need a 'response" other than fueling my body from it.

Oh, I also don't get all of this energy people talk about. Wah!

lanita 04-23-2013 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16385306)
I loved stuffing myself when I was eating HC. But I think this had more to do with the addictive relationship with carbs as opposed to anything else. I can also overeat on a LC HF diet, so I do count calories roughly just so that I have a sense of why I have this tendency. The main difference for me when I overeat on a HF diet as opposed to a HC diet, is that I can overeat on a HC diet and still feel hungry! On a HF, LC diet when I overeat I usually feel no desire to keep eating once my brain registers that I have eaten too much. I will go to bed and skip breakfast the next day. And sometimes even eat less calories the next day without feeling deprived, so my body catches up much better with the extra food.

This is really good compared to HC overeating, where it just seemed to be an endless cycle of overeating and storing the extra food as fat without my brain registering and saying: "hey I think we have enough stored fat here, we don't need anymore thanks." I like the automatic self regulation that happens with the LC HF diet. It is also less stressful because I don't have to worry so much about the calories and how much I am overeating, because I know my appetite will self regulate. This will become useful when I am finally in maintenance mode! 8)

This is exactly how it works for me. I couldn't have written it better.

rubidoux 04-23-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fatcats (Post 16388490)
LC does not give me a full feeling at all. I'm mulling this over lately. It totally controls the cravings. Yes it does. But I don't have a sense of satisfaction from it....almost like food is fuel, not for enjoyment. It's real hard to get past that since food has been used forever for celebration. And you are right, it takes one delicious carby meal to start the need again. Sad to say though, NOTHING gives me food satisfaction like my fav family pizza restaurant down tne street. Nothing.

You would think eating this way- all the fat, cheese, creams and meat would be satisfying to me, but it leaves me feeling empty. Not hungry mind you, just, empty. I've got to get my head around that food is FUEL and I don't need a 'response" other than fueling my body from it.

Oh, I also don't get all of this energy people talk about. Wah!

I am the same way about feeling kinda empty if I'm eating LC. It's like if I haven't had some bread/pasta/potatoes w a meal I haven't even eaten. Somehow I don't feel that way now, but I did for years (I've been working on this for about 12 years now) and I remember that being very hard in the beginning, just *never* feeling satisfied. I don't notice it now but I'm not sure if I have just gotten used to it or if it has changed. I think maybe a combo. Also, now I make sure to get plenty of fat and that may have a big impact (though I remember feeling that way while eating lots of cream cheese/sour cream/pork butt, so that may not be it).

I do, though, really get that energy boost w ketosis, which may make all the difference. I felt it from about two days in the first time I started doing Atkins, but now w high fat/moderate protein/very low carb, I'm flying. I wonder if less protein or more fat could help you get there. I hope that you do get into that zone bc it does make everything so much easier.

And it is only just recently that I've switched into a mode where I'm able to see food as being mostly about fuel. Part of that I think was about recognizing the problem and really thinking about it over a long period of time. I think even six months ago I was struggling w it, but now I routinely eat foods that I'm not that keen on bc I think they're healthy and good for weight loss and good for my b/s and fuel my body. For much of my life none of those concerns were part of the equation. I know a lot of people struggle to make LC as palatable as their previous woe, but I don't really love low carb foods. So for me it as important to let go of that and make my food decisions based more on health and need for fuel.

Lately I have been thinking its nice to have something pleasing once a day, so yesterday I ate a whole avocado w salsa (do not like avocado!), 2 salmon burgers (boring!), and a small piece of cheddar and some trader joe's mesquite almonds for my yummy treat. But back in the day I would never have considered almonds or cheese any kind of a treat!

Geekin' in Utah 04-23-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fatcats (Post 16388490)
LC does not give me a full feeling at all. I'm mulling this over lately. It totally controls the cravings. Yes it does. But I don't have a sense of satisfaction from it....almost like food is fuel, not for enjoyment. It's real hard to get past that since food has been used forever for celebration. And you are right, it takes one delicious carby meal to start the need again. Sad to say though, NOTHING gives me food satisfaction like my fav family pizza restaurant down tne street. Nothing. !

This may be more of a long-term impact of sugar on the brain. Sugar excites the brain in the exact same way as cocaine and other addictive substances. Each sugar hit gave your brain a small high, and since the sugar happens regularly, it is a pretty continual, small high. Your body responds, just like in any addiction, by reducing dopamine production.

Now, you quit eating sugar, so you no longer get those mini-highs. But your body still isn't producing all the dopamine it needs. As a result, the pleasure center in your brain, which used to get a buzz when you ate, is instead gasping for dopamine while you eat.

What you are feeling may have nothing to do with satiety, but more to do with low-level withdrawals. You don't feel satisfied, because, in the past, a large art of the satisfaction was the sugar buzz, and your body is expecting it. When it doesn't come, it can almost be a let-down.

If this is the case (and I'm only hypothesizing here), it, too, will pass, but it won't be quick. Your body will slowly up the dopamine until you are back in normal ranges. Since there are really no studies on actual sugar addiction, it's hard to guess how long, but other addictions start seeing improvements in 4-6 weeks, but can take years to recover fully.

Patience 04-24-2013 03:25 AM

Thought provoking posts, thanks!

3fatcats 04-24-2013 03:36 AM

THAT make perfect sense! I feel as though I will never 'recover', though. My family has a history of type 2 diabetes and I think it's built in to my blood! I will alwaysbe fighting the good fight, and I feel that I will never fully recover, much like an alcoholic. You're fine when you aren't drinking, but just one sip and it starts the ball rolling again. I've accepted that, but I wish my pleasure center would kick in....eating just feels unfufilling- like a job. And you are right, it IS a let down when I eat. "This is all you're eating? It's soooo boring. That sub that Sally's eating looks good! betcha that will fill you up! ". Atleast that's what I think my inner dialogue sounds like....constantly fiting temptation. I've been low carbing since I was like 23, so the battle will never end (I'm 35 now).

Patience 04-24-2013 03:45 AM

I do see parallels with alcoholism, in some cases. Then it's time for acceptance, and that's not the outcome we are hoping for. Are there any low carb foods that you find satisfying? Just curious. I am into low carb for the long haul know so I will come face to face with what you are describing, sooner if not later. I most likely sooner.

A bit off track, but my brother in law just lost his sense of taste. He did the requisite visit to Mayo but the answer was that sometimes this just happens. I think to myself, wow at least I can still taste. Not surprisingly, he is losing weight (and frankly had a good number of extra pounds to spare), but what a crappy way to lose it.

emgee 04-24-2013 05:54 AM

I also read that some people have "volume addiction". I didn't even know this term till recently. I can relate to liking the feeling of being overfull. My husband and I have had this conversation because "normal" eaters do not enjoy this and try to avoid it whereas I am not satisfied without it. A bit better on LC but still there. I don't really like meat and can find myself overeating it.

rubidoux 04-24-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geekin' in Utah (Post 16390339)
This may be more of a long-term impact of sugar on the brain. Sugar excites the brain in the exact same way as cocaine and other addictive substances. Each sugar hit gave your brain a small high, and since the sugar happens regularly, it is a pretty continual, small high. Your body responds, just like in any addiction, by reducing dopamine production.

Now, you quit eating sugar, so you no longer get those mini-highs. But your body still isn't producing all the dopamine it needs. As a result, the pleasure center in your brain, which used to get a buzz when you ate, is instead gasping for dopamine while you eat.
N
What you are feeling may have nothing to do with satiety, but more to do with low-level withdrawals. You don't feel satisfied, because, in the past, a large art of the satisfaction was the sugar buzz, and your body is expecting it. When it doesn't come, it can almost be a let-down.

If this is the case (and I'm only hypothesizing here), it, too, will pass, but it won't be quick. Your body will slowly up the dopamine until you are back in normal ranges. Since there are really no studies on actual sugar addiction, it's hard to guess how long, but other addictions start seeing improvements in 4-6 weeks, but can take years to recover fully.

I think this is dead on. I would say I felt kinda flat after eating, not satisfied, a little antsy. Very similar to the dissatisfaction I felt when I quit smoking. I was in need of a fix. I do think I have detoxes or an far into the process. When I eat now I don't feel that satisfaction of the fix but it's like I've stopped expecting my food to do that for me so I'm not let down or taken off guard like I used to be.

Interestingly (and sad for me, if I might say so myself) I have to eat carbs sometimes bc I use insulin and have insulin reactions. But, somehow it doesn't put me back to square one. The rest of my day is usually difficult and sometimes I end up mini-binging (I guess that's nonsensical, but I don't eat huge amounts of food but I feel like I'm out of control and I feel bad emotionally and physically), but, at least in recent months I've always managed to get on track the next morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fatcats (Post 16390425)
THAT make perfect sense! I feel as though I will never 'recover', though. My family has a history of type 2 diabetes and I think it's built in to my blood! I will alwaysbe fighting the good fight, and I feel that I will never fully recover, much like an alcoholic. You're fine when you aren't drinking, but just one sip and it starts the ball rolling again. I've accepted that, but I wish my pleasure center would kick in....eating just feels unfufilling- like a job. And you are right, it IS a let down when I eat. "This is all you're eating? It's soooo boring. That sub that Sally's eating looks good! betcha that will fill you up! ". Atleast that's what I think my inner dialogue sounds like....constantly fiting temptation. I've been low carbing since I was like 23, so the battle will never end (I'm 35 now).

Have you been on and off or on plan all that time? I've been on and off, w lots of off since 2000. But I'd say the majority of my progress has happened in the last two years even though I fell off the wagon for nearly a year. I think two things made the difference to me -- IFing and going as low as possible w the carbs/moderate protein. I have been as Los as 2 g a day for months at a time but more recently around 12 g/day (I don't subtract fiber) and I am on the low side for protein at around 45 g most days w a 60 g day here and there.

I will definitely look into volume addiction. That sounds like me, too! Or at least the old me.

DiamondDeb 04-24-2013 05:07 PM

No, I never liked feeling stuffed, which is what "feeling full" means to me.

I learned, even before I discovered low carb eating, to stop eating before I got to feeling full. I think eating to that point is a bad habit but it was never a craving for me.

3fatcats 04-24-2013 06:23 PM

I,d say I've been 75% on for all these years. The last 2 years I've been having problems with whole body hives that I finally connected to losing weight. I thought it was eggs or something like that, but no,it's dieting. The few days after I upped my carbs my hives get better and heal. So now I'm trying to get to a happy spot where Iwon't itch but won't have crazy cravings because I have to keep my carbs higher. How high? Have no idea yet. I'm working on it. Maybe some berries & Hwc for brekkie. We'll see.

rubidoux 04-24-2013 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fatcats (Post 16392113)
I,d say I've been 75% on for all these years. The last 2 years I've been having problems with whole body hives that I finally connected to losing weight. I thought it was eggs or something like that, but no,it's dieting. The few days after I upped my carbs my hives get better and heal. So now I'm trying to get to a happy spot where Iwon't itch but won't have crazy cravings because I have to keep my carbs higher. How high? Have no idea yet. I'm working on it. Maybe some berries & Hwc for brekkie. We'll see.

Wow! That's a hard obstacle, or at least it would be for me. I need to eat carbs sometimes for my low blood sugars and I feel like that really trips me up, or can. Sometimes I make it through okay, but sometimes it's hard to recover. If I had to eat higher carbs all the time I don't know that I could do it. I am impressed with your perseverance.

Geekin' in Utah 04-24-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3fatcats (Post 16392113)
The last 2 years I've been having problems with whole body hives that I finally connected to losing weight. I thought it was eggs or something like that, but no,it's dieting. The few days after I upped my carbs my hives get better and heal.

That really does suck. A couple things went through my head:

1. Hormones get sucked into fat cells along with the fatty acids that then get released as you lose weight. It may have nothing to do with the carb content or lack thereof, but with, as you mentioned, losing weight. Increasing carbs to slow weight loss might be a good option.

2. Maybe it's a food allergy (perhaps due to a quantity) and goes away when you eat more carbs because the allergen is being replaced by the carbohydrates. Perhaps experimenting with foods, like any other food allergy, and/or talking to a doctor to help identify the allergen would be a good option. If it were this option, it seems like some kind of protein would be the likely cause.

Wendi-Bell 04-24-2013 10:46 PM

YES!! Almost like I could never get full. Im fightint with not getting enough fat in right now, so Im kind of experiencing the same thing with low carb. If my fat intake is high enough, I feel great!


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