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Old 04-16-2013, 07:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
It makes me sad that people believe, and I do think that this is the predominant view in our culture, this sort of nonsense. Nobody would choose to get fat and stay fat if they understood what was happening and how to change it. I am 100% certain that this is the belief that supports our society in such harsh discrimination against fat people.
I agree.

Discrimination is born in ignorance and lives in the refusal to learn. Those that care to learn will and those that prefer to hold their beliefs will do so as well despite any attempts at reason and logic.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:31 PM   #62
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Let me see if I understand. Are you saying that you disagree with the statement that some people are innocently ignorant of how to lose weight or eat a healthy diet and that some choose to stay ignorant?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #63
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I have actually pondered this conundrum...I think that as Americans, and I guess all Western societies have grown fatter, the perception of what is fat has changed. Seeing someone who is at a healthy weight with little excess fat is now 'Thin'. Some one who is at a very healthy weight i.e. no excess fat is now 'skinny' and seeing someone who is perhaps a tad underweight but still in the healthy range is now 'emaciated' it's all about the perception. The 'average' weight is now 'overweight' and if the projections are accurate (and they usually are) then 'obese' will be the new normal.
It's all those useless carbs killing us slowly
My partner struggles with this. He's very tall and naturally very thin. He has tried to "bulk up" in the past, but it doesn't work. He gets stronger, and more "cut" but not much bigger. Heck, I didn't realize how strong he was until he picked me up like I was nothing more than a rag doll one day.

He sees himself as too thin and tries to hide under layers of clothes. He just came home after a couple weeks working on the Mississippi and where I noticed the additional muscles he came home with, when he looked in the mirror he made the comment that he "looked like a cancer patient."
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:43 AM   #64
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:55 AM   #65
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:16 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanita View Post
Let me see if I understand. Are you saying that you disagree with the statement that some people are innocently ignorant of how to lose weight or eat a healthy diet and that some choose to stay ignorant?
I would say that is a true statement. I think very, very, very few have no clue. But portion restriction and eating chicken and vegetables is a lot more boring than eating ribs and baked beans. You can't tell me if you were to randomly question 100 overweight people, they would be clueless of how they got there. I personally get tired of measuring, weighing and putting the values into an on-line tracker but you do what you have to. I just got done weighing a slice of bread to be sure that the portion size and coordinating calories were correct. The on-line tracker is free. You can use measuring cups and chart with a pencil/paper. You can read the box and see what a portion is. Everyone knows how to do this but it is time consuming and a PIA so it is easier to grab a comforting burger and fries and forget it. I know, I was there and I felt like crap and I knew why but still did it. But I was fully aware why I was gaining weight but took the easy way.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:10 AM   #67
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I think that everyone has a right to their opinion, regardless of what weight they are or have been. But I cannot help but notice that the people who are most harshly judgmental about this are those who have never really been big. Maybe that just means that those of us who've had 40+ BMI's are fundamentally flawed and can't think reasonably anymore, but we are also the ones who have worked really hard to get where we are (even if we aren't there yet). My guess is that we have metabolisms that are more damaged, too.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:24 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
I think that everyone has a right to their opinion, regardless of what weight they are or have been. But I cannot help but notice that the people who are most harshly judgmental about this are those who have never really been big. Maybe that just means that those of us who've had 40+ BMI's are fundamentally flawed and can't think reasonably anymore, but we are also the ones who have worked really hard to get where we are (even if we aren't there yet). My guess is that we have metabolisms that are more damaged, too.


Thank you for saying this. I have wanted to say essentially the same thing myself. I don't think I'm mentally flawed. I do think my metabolism is WAY different than someone who has never seen the dark side of 200 lbs.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #69
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I cannot help but notice that the people who are most harshly judgmental about this are those who have never really been big.
I will absolutely give you that. I think I was more commenting to the statement that no one would stay fat if they knew how to change it. I'm saying we know how to change it but choose not to because it is by far, the more difficult road. But I also believe the road to success doesn't have to be Atkins as shown by all of the members here and the multiple plans we are all on. It was trial and error for everyone here. It was trail and error before I got here, it still is trial and error for me now. My only disagreement with your statement is everyone has personal responsibility for their weight. And I feel everyone knows how they got there and what it will take to get back from where they are now.

I also question the existence of a "damaged metabolism" but won't say I am right as I truly don't know . I was a huge yo-yo dieter in my 20's. I dieted down to 115 pounds and my BMR was pretty low then, mainly because I had dieted off a bunch of muscle too. Fast forward to age 51. My metabolism is quite a bit higher than in my 20's, mainly because I weight lift now. Not like some of the goddesses here but I do weight training. I have built up muscle mass and my metabolism went up with it. I think a couple of things happen later in life that slow metabolism down. One is decreased sensitivity to insulin (Metformin can help here) and another is hormone regulated loss of muscle mass (transdermal testosterone is a Godsend in menopause) but I don't think you are doomed to metabolism damage because I don't think it exists. But that's just me.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by CindyCRNA View Post
I will absolutely give you that. I think I was more commenting to the statement that no one would stay fat if they knew how to change it. I'm saying we know how to change it but choose not to because it is by far, the more difficult road. But I also believe the road to success doesn't have to be Atkins as shown by all of the members here and the multiple plans we are all on. It was trial and error for everyone here. It was trail and error before I got here, it still is trial and error for me now. My only disagreement with your statement is everyone has personal responsibility for their weight. And I feel everyone knows how they got there and what it will take to get back from where they are now.

I also question the existence of a "damaged metabolism" but won't say I am right as I truly don't know . I was a huge yo-yo dieter in my 20's. I dieted down to 115 pounds and my BMR was pretty low then, mainly because I had dieted off a bunch of muscle too. Fast forward to age 51. My metabolism is quite a bit higher than in my 20's, mainly because I weight lift now. Not like some of the goddesses here but I do weight training. I have built up muscle mass and my metabolism went up with it. I think a couple of things happen later in life that slow metabolism down. One is decreased sensitivity to insulin (Metformin can help here) and another is hormone regulated loss of muscle mass (transdermal testosterone is a Godsend in menopause) but I don't think you are doomed to metabolism damage because I don't think it exists. But that's just me.
I don't agree with the bolded at all.

When I talk about my damaged metabolism, I'm not thinking about a low BMR. I may have a low BMR. I don't know. But I do know that my body does not handle food well, especially not carbs. When I was about 20, I went on a diet and lost quite a bit of weight down to about 110 pounds. It was a low fat, low cal diet -- every day I ate a plain bagel with grape jelly for my afternoon snack and a package of fat free hostess cinnamon coffee cakes for my nighttime snack, and then everything else veg, I think. I lost fine, it totally worked for me. And then a little later, it didn't matter how low fat or low cal I went, I did not lose, no matter what. It just completely did not work. By the time I tried Atkins for the first time, I was around 160 pounds, in 2000, and I did induction for several months, lost 9 pounds in the first two weeks, and then nothing more. I ended up staying on, but eating 30 g of carb a day for almost four years. Didn't lose another pound, in fact, I was up 15 pounds by the end. But it was awesome for my blood sugar. I was the most strict diet-y fat person you could imagine.

After that I was on Atkins on and off for several years (it's awfully hard to be so strict if you're still gonna be fat) and then about two years ago I decided to go zero carb, not for weight loss (I had long since given up on that) but bc my blood sugar was being difficult. And low and behold I started losing, for the first time since my very early 20s. It was freaking amazing!!! But I stumbled on that completely unwittingly. It was happenstance. If I weren't diabetic I'd never have had a reason to try it.

After five months of losing on zero carb I started feeling really sick, especially when I tried to eat. Like I felt like I was going to throw up at the thought of putting a bite of meat into my mouth. Eventually that led down a road to adding in foods. I didn't realize that that nauseous feeling was just my body's reaction to deep ketosis. It happened again this time, but I realized that it was okay and I just had to work with it and/or wait it out, and in fact, it only lasted a few weeks but here I am...

It would have been so easy for me to not try this again. It didn't work last time. But I tried it again only out of true desperation. And bc I was reading a little about nutritional ketosis (which wasn't a thing people were talking about when I was doing it last time).

And should I have been blamed and held responsible for not finding that this worked for me if I hadn't???

I do not think my history is particularly extreme. I think there are a lot of people who have a hard time making weight loss work for them. And even the ones who just automatically lose when they eat less/move more or whathaveyou... I don't think they're "responsible" for their weight either. There have got to be very strong factors keeping someone from losing weight if they're heavy. Nobody is comfortable and happy in this culture if they're obese. Whether it's depression, or poverty, or lack of education, or a messed up metabolism... there is some reason. And I just don't think it makes a whole lotta sense to say that the fat person is responsible and at fault. They would surely move mountains if they could to lose weight. And some of us do. Should I really be thinking of my old fat self as undeserving and responsible for her situation??? I just did it to my own damned self? I am to blame?

Last edited by rubidoux; 04-17-2013 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:53 PM   #71
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Jayne, I just read in your siggy your are a type 1 diabetic. You, my dear, have a very big hurdle right there. I truly do understand how difficult it is for the type 1 diabetic to lose weight as insulin is a powerful hormone. My hats off to you for finding a plan that works. I see in your stats your weight has come down tremendously and I assume your insulin dose has come down a bit. Type 1 is a big mountain and most definitely will make your body cling to fat.
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