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Old 04-14-2013, 02:13 AM   #61
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DADR is two small cups lettuce.DANDR is two cups salad plus veges etc...

DADR has no 'net' carbs.you count it all and still stay at low levels.from virtually none to start then up 5 gm a week until you find your sweet spot but I am like a lot of people not adding much yet.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:14 AM   #62
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I ate tons of veges eating normally and got fatter.I ate weight watchers and got fatter actually.I am happier doing this and then easing things in later.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:22 AM   #63
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This is not a debate post. The op had a concern. She now knows that some people thinks vegetables are essential and others do not. She can make her decision like we all did. Let's not get into right or wrong.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:16 AM   #64
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Great posts Suzanne and Clackly! ITA w every last word.



I don't feel very good when I eat too much veg (and I have a relatively low threshhold). I get really bloated and gassy and no fun to be around. And I had diarrhea once for three solid years (no pun intended, lol) and was never regular like I am without veggies. And my sons are the same way.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:31 AM   #65
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I used to love veggies. Still sort of do - but I just don't like them plain - they have to be mixed in something. Even then that has to be disguised really well with seasonings and whatnot. But I can't imagine always making casseroles

Any tips on how to make vegetables more exciting? Seriously, I used to be a veghead and now all I want is steak with butter.
i like my veggies and i like to eat my lowcarb veggies raw, including things like fresh peas. i like the flavour of the different veggies without all the "coverup" a sauce etc gives. the highercarb veggies, eg squashes, i usually cook.

so, my only suggestion is try them raw if you haven't done so yet.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:01 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by kiwistars View Post
DADR is two small cups lettuce.DANDR is two cups salad plus veges etc...

DADR has no 'net' carbs.you count it all and still stay at low levels.from virtually none to start then up 5 gm a week until you find your sweet spot but I am like a lot of people not adding much yet.
Yes, that is why I mentioned that MY iteration of Atkins, that particular text, involves plenty of plant matter and the good doctor makes a point at multiple spots in the text that vegetables (and exercise!) are crucial. Not all editions of Atkins have the same plan specifics, and not all individuals thrive at the same levels of nutrients. I'd argue that's the genius of the carb ladder in OWL - adding back in specifics foods slowly and carefully, in controlled quantities, is a very logical and consistent way to test exactly where your body's needs may be.

Brilliant
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:19 PM   #67
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I am a cherry tomato w/ fresh mozzarella, red wine vinegar & olive oil addict.

i love ranch - so i like celery w/ ranch; or i add some franks hot sauce to my salad dressing and dip celery and cucumbers in it. i make steak salad w/ ranch (steak and butter lettuce) a few times a week.

i don't love or hate veggies. most of them are good with the right preparation, and i just don't have time at night to prepare them. i think i mostly just like ranch dressing. i do like roasted veggies way too much.. they taste sooo good roasted/grilled w/ olive oil & sea salt (asparagus/zucchini/cauliflower/brussels).

but if you don't like 'em, oh well. there's enough people on here who are very successful w/o eating them. i just don't know how people are "regular" without some fiber/roughage. not to be gross...
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:30 PM   #68
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So... other than the avocado and lettuce... if someone was strictly doing this, where would he or she get vitamin C? Or calcium? (I dont think any of the food mentioned above have calcium, unless you are almost daily eating something like sardines with bones) Or all the antioxidants and flavonoids found in vegetables?
I guess I'm not so strict. I think it's completely fine to never eat any veg or fruit. But I think it's fine to have them, too. I probably end up eating some fresh salsa most days. I like a couple of tablespoons of it over my avocado. It's about 2 g of carb, so sometimes I'll skip it if I'm trying to be strict, but most days I have a bit. Sometimes I will also squeeze a bit of lemon over my salmon. I have a feeling that between those two sources there is plenty of vita C there. But one time I went for five months without any veg or fruit at all and I didn't get scurvy or anything.

And as for calcium, I doubt most americans get the bulk of their calcium from plant sources. Probably most dairy, I'm guessing.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:22 AM   #69
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I

i don't love or hate veggies. most of them are good with the right preparation, and i just don't have time at night to prepare them. i think i mostly just like ranch dressing. i do like roasted veggies way too much.. they taste sooo good roasted/grilled w/ olive oil & sea salt (asparagus/zucchini/cauliflower/brussels).
I think that may be my problem - I used to love veggies, and I love fresh cooked veggies, but veggies that have been cooked and then microwaved (leftovers) ICK. YUCK. And then i'll order stuff from my cafeteria and I guess whatever oil they use to roast the veggies gives it this weird taste. Sadface!
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:19 AM   #70
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I am puzzled as to why anyone would think that NOT eating vegetables is a healthy choice?

I know of no studies that indicate any negative health issues that are caused by eating vegetables, nor have I ever heard of a doctor advising a patient to avoid vegetables.

Since when has this been a dietary issue?
I am absolutely sure that in Good Calories Bad calories (or The Diet Delusion in the UK) by Gary Taubes he could only find one study that proved eating vegetables improved health - and even then it was only two portions a week - over and above this figure made no difference. Certainly not the five or so a day the government tell us to. He points out that the 'five a day' or 'ten a day' or whatever, which differs from country to country is just an arbitrary figure. Govts want us to be healthy, perhaps - or more likely fruit and vegetable marketing boards drive this message

I didn't eat vegetables except for the very occasional salad for six months once and all health indicators improved. I'm doing it again now
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #71
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Everything is better with butter and or cheese, especially veggies!
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LOL! That is very true!

I made taleggio cheese sauce. It was delicious on broccoli.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #72
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I didn't eat vegetables except for the very occasional salad for six months once and all health indicators improved. I'm doing it again now
well, there was a guy who did a Twinkie diet and his health indicators improved!
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:49 AM   #73
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well, there was a guy who did a Twinkie diet and his health indicators improved!
really? his LDL and triglycerides went down and his HDL went up, he lost 28 lbs and his bood pressure went down? (I also had broad spectrum blood tests which showed I was in the 'excellent' or 'good' bracket for everything tested) I didn't get scurvy either...

If so - it rather proves that vegetables are unnecessary does it not?

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Old 04-17-2013, 04:28 AM   #74
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Why are we debating this? We all have our opinions as adults. Lets just let it go and respect that we have different opinions.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:50 AM   #75
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Why are we debating this? We all have our opinions as adults. Lets just let it go and respect that we have different opinions.
I don't see any problem with that. Everyone is just expressing their different viewpoints and what they are basing them on. If everyone just agreed it would be quite boring and there would be nothing to learn.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:15 AM   #76
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It isfine to express your viewpoint, but some of us are putting down the otherside.At this point, both sides have explained their position clearly.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #77
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I love certain veggies. Broccoli and green peppers especially I have to watch which ones I eat though because last time I overdosed ate alot of broccoli, I had a stomache ache and bloating something awful. I stick to 1 C of broccoli a couple times a week, stuffed green peppers for breakfast once in a while, and stuffed mushrooms occasionally. I usually stick to salads daily. At least they don't give me tummy trouble.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:53 PM   #78
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Ok, first I want to appologize, because I realize my comment sounded pretty snarky.

The point I should have made was the weight loss, on any diet, will improve the numbers. But one should keep in mind the big picture of if a diet is really healthy or not.
(I think we all agree here that a low carb, high fat diet of processed foods is not healthy, even if it results in weight loss and improved blood work)


Quote:
really? his LDL and triglycerides went down and his HDL went up, he lost 28 lbs and his bood pressure went down? (I also had broad spectrum blood tests which showed I was in the 'excellent' or 'good' bracket for everything tested) I didn't get scurvy either...

If so - it rather proves that vegetables are unnecessary does it not?
This is from a CNN article - comes up if you Google "twinkie diet"

"For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too."

"Haub's "bad" cholesterol, or LDL, dropped 20 percent and his "good" cholesterol, or HDL, increased by 20 percent. He reduced the level of triglycerides, which are a form of fat, by 39 percent."


And no, he didnt develop scurvy. His diet was for 10 weeks, and it takes months to develop even minor signs of scurvy... and even then its vague symptoms like muscle aches and fatigue. More severe signs like bleeding gums, poor wound healing, etc take even longer to develop.

I dont know what all junk food he ate, but potatoes (which were likely on his list) contain vitamin C. And alot of sugary beverages are fortified with vitamin C. This is why scurvy is pretty rare in the United States.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #79
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I like veggies. But like vegetarians who do not consider meat necessary, I do not consider fruits and veggies to be necessary. Technology gives us options we never previously enjoyed. So eat them or don't eat them. Take a vitamin. You will be fine.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:06 PM   #80
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I think we all agree here that a low carb, high fat diet of processed foods is not healthy, even if it results in weight loss and improved blood work)
Oops, I meant to write "HIGH carb, LOW fat diet"... all I got right was the processed foods part :-/
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #81
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Oops, I meant to write "HIGH carb, LOW fat diet"... all I got right was the processed foods part :-/
well, either or isn't good. Processed anything is bad.

I didn't mean to start this thread as a debate, but it's interesting to see everyone's POV. I guess forcing myself to eat veggies daily isn't a good thing - my body tells me what it wants (meat) and so therefore I shall eat the meat! And not the pudding
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