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Old 04-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #31
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I do eat veggies- but your excuse could be:
"Veggies make you grow. I'm done growing."
(Same with milk )
LOVE it!!
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #32
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I make veggies a couple of times a week for my kids. But I don't do the whole making sure they have tons of veggies every day thing. Usually I try to make something they like (my kids LOVE brussels sprouts but threw a fit about asparagus the other night). I don't want them to be like a friend I once had who had never tried any veggies other than canned peas. (She grew up in the midwest where, I believe, you should be able to get wonderful fresh veggies, no?) But I don't really think of it so much as being for their health as for a cultural/social thing. lol

But they know I love veggies but I don't eat them often bc of my blood sugar and trying to lose weight. My husband eats them (he has lost around 70 pounds over the last six years or so, becoming increasingly low carb as he figures out what works, but he still freaks out when he sees that I cook the steak in butter and he completely whole-heartedly without question buys into the whole veggies are the end-all-be-all thing). So, he can be the veggie eating role model for them.

I am really still on the fence about whether or not I think kids need to be fed veg. I think I also have that really deep indoctrination that's hard to get past.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #33
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I make veggies a couple of times a week for my kids. But I don't do the whole making sure they have tons of veggies every day thing. Usually I try to make something they like (my kids LOVE brussels sprouts but threw a fit about asparagus the other night). I don't want them to be like a friend I once had who had never tried any veggies other than canned peas. (She grew up in the midwest where, I believe, you should be able to get wonderful fresh veggies, no?) But I don't really think of it so much as being for their health as for a cultural/social thing. lol

But they know I love veggies but I don't eat them often bc of my blood sugar and trying to lose weight. My husband eats them (he has lost around 70 pounds over the last six years or so, becoming increasingly low carb as he figures out what works, but he still freaks out when he sees that I cook the steak in butter and he completely whole-heartedly without question buys into the whole veggies are the end-all-be-all thing). So, he can be the veggie eating role model for them.

I am really still on the fence about whether or not I think kids need to be fed veg. I think I also have that really deep indoctrination that's hard to get past.
What indoctrination? vegetables are full of nutrients, water, and fiber. Meat and dairy do not contain all the vitamins and minerals that our bodies(and especially kids' bodies) need. There is no vegetable conspiracy. They don't compare to the so called healthy whole grains that are just white flour with color and need to have nutrients added back in.

I think it's just logical - just like we know eggs and meat have always been healthy (no matter what the media says), the same is true of vegetables.

Last edited by nolcjunk; 04-13-2013 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:32 AM   #34
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My kids got veggies, too. All grown up, one is vegan and the other vegetarian.
Neither have weight probs. I think it's good to introduce them to a lot of veggies, but not to force them to eat them. My youngest daughter helped me garden (again, not forcing) and I think that tweaked her taste for veggies. With my second, I gave up gardening for a while and she went through her phase of white bread and baloney sandwiches and twinkies being her fav lunch (she would beg not to go to the cafeteria so she could take a sack lunch with her favorites). Well she ended up being a vegan chef, so go figure.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #35
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What indoctrination? vegetables are full of nutrients, water, and fiber. Meat and dairy do not contain all the vitamins and minerals that our bodies(and especially kids' bodies) need. There is no vegetable conspiracy. They don't compare to the so called healthy whole grains that are just white flour with color and need to have nutrients added back in.

I think it's just logical - just like we know eggs and meat have always been healthy (no matter what the media says), the same is true of vegetables.
I sure wish that I was confident in all those things I had always been told. You are a true believer! Good for you!
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:39 AM   #36
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I sure wish that I was confident in all those things I had always been told. You are a true believer! Good for you!
I'm not confident of things I have been told, I am confident of what I learned and of the opinions I formed by weighing the evidence.

Maybe it's because my family always ate full fat,eggs, butter, etc. even at the height of the low fat craze. So I never believed the low fat hype or based my opinions based on what was being reported. My mom always said the news reports were silly and our diet never changed. So I grew up knowing that natural, whole foods are the best and the most nutritious and never ate margarine, fake low fat cookies, or other "creations".
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:04 AM   #37
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I feed my children vegetables, but I do not think they are necessary.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:33 AM   #38
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I agree. I make veggies for my kids for some diversity and because I think they should be exposed to them, but I don't think they're necessary for them to grow up to healthy adults.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:43 PM   #39
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Wow... the number of people on here who dont think veggies are healthy is phenomenal. That takes ignoring a heck of a lot of research showing the benefits of vegetables in the diet.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #40
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Sadly, there's a lot of research showing a low fat diet is the way to go, and I don't buy that either. I think it all depends on who is paying for the research. There's nothing wrong with veggies, I just don't think that they're absolutely necessary.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:57 PM   #41
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Sadly, there's a lot of research showing a low fat diet is the way to go, and I don't buy that either. I think it all depends on who is paying for the research. There's nothing wrong with veggies, I just don't think that they're absolutely necessary.

but who gets rich off of vegetables? What about vitamin C? You can't get that from meat, so don't you think that shows that we should be eating vegetables?
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:19 PM   #42
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I am puzzled as to why anyone would think that NOT eating vegetables is a healthy choice?

I know of no studies that indicate any negative health issues that are caused by eating vegetables, nor have I ever heard of a doctor advising a patient to avoid vegetables.

Since when has this been a dietary issue?
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:48 PM   #43
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I've heard that vitamin C and A can be obtained from organ meats, which should be lightly cooked to retain the vitamin C. I don't care for organ meats so I'll stick with eating vegetables.

I bought fresh cauliflower this week and roasted it with coconut oil, then used it to make cauliflower cheese soup. It was really good and filling too.

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but I also rely on vegetables to stretch out the meat I buy. This helps me to save money and I still get plenty of protein from smaller servings of meat, supplemented with dairy and eggs.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:54 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Pami View Post
I do eat veggies- but your excuse could be:
"Veggies make you grow. I'm done growing."
(Same with milk )
I have been telling my kids this for years (about many things, but not veggies as I do like them).
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:02 PM   #45
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I've heard that vitamin C and A can be obtained from organ meats, which should be lightly cooked to retain the vitamin C. I don't care for organ meats so I'll stick with eating vegetables.

.
oh yes definitely, but not a lot of people are eating semi-cooked organ meats.

And, vegetables do definitely stretch meat. When I make a meal for a lot of people I can use good meat, but not a ton of it, and lots of vegetables and it comes out great (I like to make beef stew with at least seven different vegetables).
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:16 PM   #46
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Sadly, there's a lot of research showing a low fat diet is the way to go, and I don't buy that either. I think it all depends on who is paying for the research
Most of those studies are older, and they actually incorporated a ton of whole foods and veggies in those lowfat studies. Much of the newer research (as we all know) is now pointing to healthy fats + whole foods and veggies as the way to go.

The biggest message to glean from the low fat studies is that losing weight (with just about any diet) will improve cholesterol and diabetes and heart attack risks, etc.

And I am not aware of any "vegetable lobby" that is paying for research. Most of the studies showing the benefits of veggies were done with NIH (National Institute of Health) grants, where no lobby is involved. A panel of doctors (MDs and PhDs) decides who gets the grant money.

Last edited by Strawberry; 04-13-2013 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:33 PM   #47
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I'm going to stay out of the fray on the discussion to whether or not vegetables are nutritious. I eat them because I love them and they are natural and LC. Here are my favorites:

Popcorn cauliflower- coat small florets with oil and salt free Mrs. Dash. Put in the oven (turning every 15 minutes or so) at 400 until brown to your liking. I like mine crispy. Dip in ranch.

Roasted sprouts- cut in half, coat in oil, sprinkle with seasonings (sometimes I use the Mrs. Dash, sometimes a Cajun blend) and in the over at 400 30-45 minutes. Again, I dip in ranch.

Finely shredded cabbage- sometimes I make a coleslaw with mayo, ACV, HWC, and Sucralose. Other times I fry it in bacon fat. Recently I've added it to the popcorn cauliflower above and comes out a bit like onion straws.

Fried eggplant- sliced, dipped in egg, coated in grated Parmesan, fried in oil till crispy.

Mushrooms- stuffed with cheeses and baked/broiled or sautéed in oil, butter, and garlic.

Spaghetti squash- good with butter and salt, or sprinkled with Parmesan, or used as a pasta/ rice replacement in a recipe. I like to fry it in oil with Cajun spices for a bit of a black bean and rice vibe (minus the BB).

Green beans- sautéed in oil till brown. Sometimes seasoned and dipped in ranch.

As you can see, I really love my veggies. I do dabble in others like spinach, zucchini, summer squash, avocado, peppers, onions, celery, or lettuce but the ones above are my mainstays in my WOE.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:58 PM   #48
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We are not saying that it is bad to eat vegetables, just that they are not necessary for good health. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates. I have survived many years without vegetables and have perfect health.
But, eat as many vegetables as you want. Just do not tell people their choice to not eat them is wrong. We have done our research too. Just reached a different conclusion.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:59 PM   #49
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We are not saying that it is bad to eat vegetables, just that they are not necessary for good health. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates. I have survived many years without vegetables and have perfect health.
But, eat as many vegetables as you want. Just do not tell people their choice to not eat them is wrong. We have done our research too. Just reached a different conclusion.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:09 PM   #50
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We are not saying that it is bad to eat vegetables, just that they are not necessary for good health. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates. I have survived many years without vegetables and have perfect health.
But, eat as many vegetables as you want. Just do not tell people their choice to not eat them is wrong. We have done our research too. Just reached a different conclusion.


The issues as I see it is that vegetables add variety but they also add to the carb count. It is neither virtuous or healthier to eat veggies. I consider them a condiment when I can. Sometimes they can create an issue in terms of taking me outside my carb count so I am very careful with them - weighing and measuring as a good practice.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:09 PM   #51
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. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates..
there might be no necessary carbs, but there are plenty of essential nutrients that vegetables contain.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzanneyea View Post
We are not saying that it is bad to eat vegetables, just that they are not necessary for good health. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates. I have survived many years without vegetables and have perfect health.
But, eat as many vegetables as you want. Just do not tell people their choice to not eat them is wrong. We have done our research too. Just reached a different conclusion.
This
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #53
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We are not saying that it is bad to eat vegetables, just that they are not necessary for good health. I trust Gary tubes who says there are no necessary carbohydrates. I have survived many years without vegetables and have perfect health.
But, eat as many vegetables as you want. Just do not tell people their choice to not eat them is wrong. We have done our research too. Just reached a different conclusion.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #54
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Great posts Suzanne and Clackly! ITA w every last word.

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I am puzzled as to why anyone would think that NOT eating vegetables is a healthy choice?

I know of no studies that indicate any negative health issues that are caused by eating vegetables, nor have I ever heard of a doctor advising a patient to avoid vegetables.

Since when has this been a dietary issue?
I don't feel very good when I eat too much veg (and I have a relatively low threshhold). I get really bloated and gassy and no fun to be around. And I had diarrhea once for three solid years (no pun intended, lol) and was never regular like I am without veggies. And my sons are the same way.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #55
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Just curious... if you arent eating vegetables... and I presume aren't eating grains or fruits if doing low carb.... what exactly do you eat day after day? It seems like that would lead to an extremely limited diet of just eggs, meat, and maybe some butter or oil?

How do you add any variety? What happens when you go out socially?
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:20 PM   #56
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Popcorn cauliflower- coat small florets with oil and salt free Mrs. Dash. Put in the oven (turning every 15 minutes or so) at 400 until brown to your liking. I like mine crispy. Dip in ranch.
Trishthedish... if you like buffalo chicken wings... try tossing your roasted cauliflower in hot sauce!! Then dip in ranch! its delish!!!!
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:24 PM   #57
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seafood,poultry,different animals,avocados,butter,cream cheese,herbs,spices,butter.
that is just off the top of my head.Also some people don't eat veges but have an exception like lettuce or something.I do atkins 1972 so I have 2 small cups of lettuce based salad but not much else.I still eat a variety of food just not much veges.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:40 PM   #58
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So... other than the avocado and lettuce... if someone was strictly doing this, where would he or she get vitamin C? Or calcium? (I dont think any of the food mentioned above have calcium, unless you are almost daily eating something like sardines with bones) Or all the antioxidants and flavonoids found in vegetables?

It just seems like if you arent eating whale blubber, and lightly cooked caribou liver, and seal brains... how is one actually getting all the good stuff? I dont see how the average grocery store available products of eggs and ground beef and salmon actually meet the requirements (?)

The body can go for a long time with lack of nutrients, but eventually things start to break down.

Last edited by Strawberry; 04-13-2013 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:48 PM   #59
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calcium is in dairy and as I personally aren't fond of whale blubber or raw liver I take a multi vitamin.If I wasn't so fussy, liver is cheap.
We absorb vit C better on a low carb diet by the way.

I will probably add in some veges myself purely for the taste once I am at maintenance.First the weight is to come of as this is a far bigger health risk than any chance of nutritional deficiencies.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:59 AM   #60
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I do DANDR 2002 by the book and eat tons of veggies - as far as I can tell for that particular iteration of Atkins you cannot actually do it properly without plenty of vegetable matter, especially in OWL. Induction is much more limited on quantity and type, but I'd still say on many days I'm consuming 4-6 cups of vegetable matter (raw, oftentimes it cooks down to less ).

That's me, though. I find them both healthful and delicious. Just like there is a spectrum of carbohydrate tolerance I believe there is a spectrum for veggies, too. I need a fair bit in my diet to feel satisfied and to nourish my body. That doesn't mean some some folks won't thrive on less, and others may need far more. Bodies differ, which is why there is no one, ideal human diet. This is one of those areas I firmly believe your mileage may vary as compared to your neighbor's. While I have certainly had some days of only a cup of green beans or a small salad, most days I am eating 45-50 total carbs and coming up with about 25-30 net. I can do that and stay well within ketosis, but others are more sensitive.

I don't force veggies - if you're not feeling them for awhile, don't sweat it. You may develop a taste for them again or may not. Just go by how you feel. Some of these recipes certainly sound amazing but I wouldn't go too far out of my way to work in fibrous plant matter unless you actually needed it in there or it sounded delicious.
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