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nick 04-01-2013 12:02 PM

hi new to this need your input ;-)
hi im starting my low carb journey im planning on low carbing till i get near the weight i want to be then planning to carb cycle (2 days under 30g 1 day carb loading). do you think this is a good idea ive done my first day on diet can you let me know if this sounds ok.

3 egg omlete cheese and peppers

alomonds 25g

tuna with mayo and cheese

protein shake

bacon wrapped chicken breasts x2 with lettice

total cals= 1500 carbs= 23g fat=78g protein= 225g sugar= 8g

does this sort of diet sound ok to get into ketosis and i have abot 15kg to lose im about 100kg at moment wanna be about 85 kg. i dont know if carb cycling will help maintain???

cheers and nice to meet you all x

kiwistars 04-01-2013 01:09 PM

I will try but I am no expert.I guess a lot of the Americans are out doing stuff at the moment as it is about 1-3pm I think.
It looks good if high in protein to me.How long do you intend to do that type of days meal plan in a row as ketosis takes 2-10 days to kick in depending on glycogen stores?Most people about three days but some as long as 2 weeks.

nick 04-01-2013 01:39 PM

Hi can I just say I love your country never been but plan to in future. I plan on doing a keto type diet until I'm near my goal weight then start carb cycling 3 days low carb 1 day carb loading but not rubbish carbs things like oats, maybe whole grain rice or spaghetti on carb days. But that will not be till I'm near my weight goal so hopefully not too long or will start carb cycling if I platue. :-)

kiwistars 04-01-2013 01:50 PM

excess protein can be turned into usable glucose by the body as far as I remember my science so watch the levels.someone on here will know how better to estimate them for your weight.
While you are going into ketosis and getting over the cravings for carbs and rubbish I wouldn't worry about it so much though.Fat is important as it keeps you full.Most low carb diets are high fat,moderate protein ,low carb.Something to think about...

clackley 04-01-2013 06:21 PM

Welcome Nick! I think your macros are off. You need more fat and less protein. It appears that you have already lost a lot of weight. How did you do that?

MtherGoos 04-01-2013 06:26 PM

I was thinking the same thing, maybe more fat, less protein. Remember, it's not a high protein diet, it's a high fat way of eating.

raindroproses 04-01-2013 06:52 PM

For keto, definitely higher fat and less protein! You may need to tweak your carbs down a bit too, but that's really an individual sort of thing... I know I keep mine under 20 total all the time, and that works for me. Check out the Nutritional Ketosis board for some great information :)

nick 04-01-2013 07:58 PM

I lost the weight just eating healthy and exercising a lot but weight loss stalled over Christmas and have put on 7kg. I thought protein was ok I lift weights ?. Maybe I could replace a chicken breast with cheese and have a few spoonfuls of oil?? What do you reckon

kiwistars 04-01-2013 08:02 PM

I would skip the shake.I don't know how many grams of carbs in one but it seems unnecessary when you have wholefood protein in your diet.

raindroproses 04-01-2013 08:14 PM

You still need protein, yes... but we were saying your levels were too high. Protein ideally should only make up around 15% of your total calories for the day I believe if you're following NK. That's not to say it can't be a little off, but that's the "ideal" NK aims for. 80% fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. On the Nutritional Ketosis forum you can find the formula to find your ideal protein range for your goal weight.

You don't have to do oil to boost fat either, you can use heavy whipping cream as well but coconut oil is a good addition if you're not eating it currently. Coconut oil is highly ketogenic :)

The reason you want to get your protein levels correct for your goal weight is because if you eat too much protein, your body can sometimes have an insulin response to it as if it was sugar... and that can cause weight gains or stalls on its own. I know when I was eating too much protein I stalled out pretty bad, so I adjusted and increased fat to make up for it.

Also be aware that if you're lifting weights you may not see much weight loss, as you could be losing fat and gaining muscle. For that reason, if you don't already, I'd also take measurements of your body as well as weighing in so you can know whether or not you're making progress!

I think 200g of anything is a bit much, but if it was flip flopped and it was 200-some grams of fat instead and 78g of protein that'd be a LOT more ketogenic and healthy imo! Low carb is generally not high protein, it's high fat. That's ESPECIALLY true for nutritional ketosis.

nick 04-01-2013 08:23 PM

What sort of things can I have for fats I know cheese and cream, oil. I might chuck the shake out that's 27g of protein and 5g carbs in itself. I'm just worried if I lose protein ill start eating away muscle I'm not specifically looking for weightloss but more fat loss. I need my strength to box or ill get punched in the face hard lol !!!

nick 04-01-2013 08:24 PM

Isn't coconut oil what people rub into stretch marks?? Lol

kiwistars 04-01-2013 08:36 PM

It also depends if you are just a keen gym goer or really ripping into hard core body building as they have different requirements which change with fat percentages.Trillex is the one to talk to there she grew up in the bodybuilding community and has absorbed a great deal.

kiwistars 04-01-2013 08:36 PM

cocoa butter if you are thinking of johnson and johnsons body lotion stuff from the chemists:)

raindroproses 04-01-2013 08:37 PM

People do lots of things with coconut oil, but no... I think you're thinking of COCOA butter. Two very different things :)

You won't start wasting away if you cut protein down, you'll start burning fat. You start to burn lean muscle mass only when you're not eating enough grams of protein to support your body weight. You're WAY over what you need for your body weight. Seriously... look at the Nutritional Ketosis forum, and there's a whole section on protein.

The formula for figuring it out is (goal weight/2.2) * 1 or 1.5

I look at both numbers to give myself a range. So in other words for you, you should be consuming between 85-127.5g of protein for your goal weight. Not 200+

Your body will NOT start burning away muscle unless you drop down to around I believe .6-.8 of your ideal, which would be much much lower than your ideal. That "bad" range would be anything under 70g.

If you're that concerned, you can keep to the upper level of your ideal protein which would put you at around 127g for the day... but any more than that is just not ketogenic imo, and you're going to be running the risk of stalling or having an insulin response to so much protein.

Your calories also look quite low for someone who's active at your weight too.

raindroproses 04-01-2013 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by nick (Post 16349363)
What sort of things can I have for fats I know cheese and cream, oil. I might chuck the shake out that's 27g of protein and 5g carbs in itself. I'm just worried if I lose protein ill start eating away muscle I'm not specifically looking for weightloss but more fat loss. I need my strength to box or ill get punched in the face hard lol !!!

HWC, cheese, cream cheese, oils, butter, bacon grease... for your proteins, you should try choosing more fattening proteins. Chicken breasts are honestly NOT a good choice imo if you're aiming for nutritional ketosis. They're almost devoid of fat, and even adding the bacon doesn't ramp your fat up that much. Opt for fatty steaks (ribeye, etc) if you can and put a dollop of butter on top... use 75% lean 25% fat ground beef. Ground beef is a high fat staple protein imo.

Also macadamia nuts are VERY high in fat and low in protein which makes them a good fat option.

nick 04-01-2013 08:51 PM

I'm a bit of a fussy eater I cut around fat on steaks and meat :( I can just about deal with fat on bacon if its crispy I'm scared of gristle and nasty bits. Lol always have been I like macadamia nuts and butter makes everything taste nice. I can make burger patties too with mince can't I?

nick 04-01-2013 09:04 PM

Just adjusted diet how about this

3 egg omelette with cheese
Coffee with coconut oil ( does it taste nice whiten it?).

25g macadamia nuts

1/2 tin tuna

25g macadamia s

Chicken with bacon and cheese

Cals= 2065 fat=180g protein=162g sodium=919g. Carbs= 15g. Macro=69/28/3

kiwistars 04-01-2013 09:08 PM

eating like that should get you into keto pretty fast :)

raindroproses 04-01-2013 09:20 PM

Much better, but honestly your protein is still excessively high. Also, do you have high BP? Because your sodium intake is really low if that's supposed to be mg. I mean REALLY low. If you're exercising you need to be sure that along with staying hydrated you keep your electrolytes up... that'll sap you of energy and cause a whole bunch of nasty problems, not cutting protein.

If you're struggling to include more salt in your diet, try drinking broth. That's a trick a lot of people use, but I actually have to WATCH my sodium intake myself due to medical reasons. But even still, I'm normally at around 1600mg. They recommend much higher salt intake for nutritional ketosis, and much higher anyway for those who are very active!

That being said if that's supposed to be grams... I'm not sure how you could manage that without eating a salt shaker, and that would definitely be in excess!

nick 04-01-2013 09:29 PM

Yeah mg sorry lol how about if I just add a little salt to my meals how healthy is all this though. I don't know why somewhere somehow something's jammed in our heads to say all this is unhealthy. I can see the science behind it and I'm just confused by all the contradicting information in medical world. I know this works as I've seen a lot of proof. How will it affect me getting to my ideal weight this way the slowly carb cycling where I eat more carbs every 3 days.

Cheers for help by the way!!! How much do I owe you so far :-)

nick 04-01-2013 09:34 PM

How about KFC drumstick now that's diet food lol

kiwistars 04-01-2013 09:36 PM

uncrumbed,it is diet food:)

raindroproses 04-01-2013 09:39 PM

You can add more salt to your meals too, sodium is just important no matter how you get it and I know some athletes drink broth in lieu of sports drinks to restore their electrolytes when they work out. Those who are active naturally sweat more than those who aren't, so they need more sodium to replace what's lost :)

That being said, if you take a look around (especially in the nutritional ketosis forum, but other places as well) there's a LOT of information that covers the science of it all. Many people have lowered their blood pressure and cholesterol eating this supposedly "unhealthy" diet so it's got to have some merit :) I'm in the process of lowering mine, and know many many people on here who've improved their health by leaps and bounds on this WOE. The misinformation is rampant in the medical community, you're right. What the real reason behind that is, I can't say for sure. I honestly believe doctors are generally misinformed about nutrition in general anyhow, and the research just isn't being done into disease prevention the way it should be... it's being done in disease CURES because there's far more money in that business for them imo. I think they're content to let the misinformation fly and make billions off of medicating sick people who bought into their dogma. But that's just me, and maybe I'm cynical :)

As far as the carb cycling goes, I'm not really sure because I don't do it! Maybe someone else can chime in there. Keep in mind that if you want to follow nutritional ketosis as your WOE though, your total carbs can't go above 50. That's without subtracting fiber. Some people are kicked out of ketosis at much lower levels, so YMMV and you may need to watch that on your cycling days if you wish to remain in ketosis. I personally can't go over 20 generally without being kicked out, or having a response.

And hey, no problem! :laugh: Just trying to help :)

raindroproses 04-01-2013 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by nick (Post 16349455)
How about KFC drumstick now that's diet food lol

The grilled chicken would probably be appropriate :laugh: The rest of it is breaded though, and contains carbs so look out for KFC. Fried foods are LC generally unless they're breaded or coated in a sauce!

raindroproses 04-01-2013 10:07 PM

It does get easier for sure :) And if you've been experiencing any weakness at all while working out, some of it may very well have been the lack of sodium... so that should definitely help too!

I should add, ketosis can make some people feel a bit weaker as well and it can affect endurance in the short term. But from what I've seen, as long as your electrolytes are good and you stick to it, once you become keto-adapted (when your body gets used to burning fat instead of glucose for energy) that'll definitely start to improve. It's a metabolic shift, so it's not without its quirks... but it's SO worth it in the end for the way it targets fat loss :)

MtherGoos 04-02-2013 01:06 PM

You could cook your omelette in the morning in coconut oil too. I cook my eggs in it almost every morning to get some coconut oil in. If you're eating chicken at night, you could also put some on your chicken before you cook it.

nick 04-02-2013 06:42 PM

i did rubbish today really good in way of carbs but i never ate enough

chicken breast in bacon and cheese and salad

25g pistacheos

chicken breast in bacon and cheese

25g piatachoeos

3 egg omlete with cheese turkey

4 tablespoons of olive oil

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