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-   -   Anything wrong with staying below 30 carbs all the way to goal? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/main-lowcarb-lobby/800449-anything-wrong-staying-below-30-carbs-all-way-goal.html)

spaceace 03-27-2013 08:38 AM

Anything wrong with staying below 30 carbs all the way to goal?
 
Most of the programs I have seen have you gradually add carbs while you are getting closer to goal. Please help me understand this, and if this is truly necessary? Here are my thoughts for you to please comment on, or even correct - I just want to get it right.

My thinking is....it gets harder to lose weight the closer you get to goal. When you add carbs, it gets harder to lose weight, too. So, why would you add carbs at this time, making it even harder? It seems to me like saying, "we're now going to go uphill for awhile, why not carry a bulling ball or two while doing that?" Why not just stay very low until you are at goal, and then "go up the carb ladder" and see what level of carbs causes you to either gain weight or experience cravings?

For me, I'm not even sure that I can climb the carb ladder. It seems like adding carbs always leads me to a binge, and by binge, I mean a several-month binge most of the time. Is it possible I should just stay very low in carbs for the rest of my life? I love the food, so why not? Why do I have to enjoy cake when I like meat?

Thanks for all of your input!

Gibbs 03-27-2013 08:42 AM

I stay under 20 about 90% of the time, the rest is between 25-30 a day. I eat what I want when I'm hungry and no problems yet.

Stardust 03-27-2013 08:44 AM

I don't think there is any problem with it at all. I think some plans allow for increased carbs as some people do like to eat some carbs, even if just an extra bit of fruit or higher carb vegetables. And apparently the best way to lose weight is to pick a plan that is sustainable in the long term, so if people want this fruit or higher carbs then they need to gradually add them back in, in the longer term.

But if you actually prefer eating under 30g of carbs and have no problem sticking with it long term then I don't see why not! Once you are at your goal you might have to play around with increasing calories / protein to stop from losing too much weight but you don't have to eat more carbs. Many people eat LC for life, not just losing weight xx

jazills 03-27-2013 08:53 AM

The first time I did LC I got to goal (-40lbs) and stay under 20 the whole time. I say why NOT?! This is lifetime thing, do what works for you and makes you feel the best! Some people will say we don't need ANY carbs.

Just Beachy 03-27-2013 09:22 AM

I'm with you, OP. There are some carbs that I just never see me adding back into my diet. As of right now, I plan on remaining at 25 g total carbs for the rest of my life, and truth be told, it doesn't seem daunting to me. Of course, once I do reach goal, I will (probably) allow the occasional beans and rice -- a favorite of mine that I haven't had in almost a year. It will be just every now and then, too.

I love eating this way, and this is the first time I have ever eaten in a way that I feel I could sustain for a lifetime.

:) Beachy

Mrs_Potato_Head 03-27-2013 11:07 AM

The only things I've read that make sense on why to increase carbs is if you get stuck in a stall and you're on minimum carbs, you've got nowhere to go whereas if your carbs are up a bit, you can always cut down on them till you start losing again. I've heard that there is a theory that your body can get used to eating very low carb which can slow weight loss and cause stalls anyway as your weight loss goes on. Having said that, I think we are all different. In the past I've had stalls on 20gms a day and spent a weekend eating carbs deliberatly to see if it broke the stall. When I resume low carbs the stall was broken. Another time I tried that on a stall and it didn't work. Some cant lose weight over 20gms of carbs a day and others can eat up to 100gms a day and loose easily. Some cant eat fruit, others can, some stall with alcohol, others dont. Not much help I know. Personally I plan to increase the carb level once Im past induction, mainly to find out what my personal carb level is, to find out what foods I can and can't eat and to give myself somewhere to go incase I stall. But thats just me. We're all different and you have to do what is right for you.

Yellobrix 03-27-2013 11:58 AM

Do what works for you! There's no medical or biological or scientific reason a normal, healthy human body "needs" to eat carbohydrates. Any minimal blood glucose needs will be met by gluconeogenesis, the process whereby your body will synthesize its own glucose.

Some people enjoy adding them back, some people do not. Some people experience weight loss success by going up & down with their carbohydrate intake.

But if keeping carbs super-low works for you, there isn't a risk, as I said, for a normal, healthy person. ONLY if you had conflicting medical conditions would you need to increase carbohydrate intake.

lisamt 03-27-2013 01:12 PM

I don't have my copy of DANDR handy, but I recall Atkins advising to add carbs until one stops losing and then scale it back as needed. Someone please correct me if that's wrong. The level of carbs at which people can lose or maintain can vary quite a bit.

kitcub 03-27-2013 02:05 PM

Although I think what everyone else is saying is true - there are some benefits to going up the carb ladder. I've gone up the carb ladder and determined I stay in ketosis until around 45 g. of carbs/day and yet I normally eat around 20-30. I don't feel I nees more, however:

1. Going up the carb ladder allows for some additional variety added to your diet which can be nice sometimes.
2. It's not just that you are adding more carbs each week, you are adding carbs from specific sources. You've eliminated these foods from your diet and when you add them back in, you are able to determine if you have food allergies or sensitivities to them. Sensitivities take on many different forms - binges, stomach issues, fatigue, mood swings, headaches, indigestion, etc. Knowledge is power and once you know, you can cross those items off your list of 'good foods'. Once you're done climbing the carb ladder, you can eat at whatever level you feel comfortable at (or lose the best at).

For example, when I was climbing the carb ladder and I got to the week of adding cottage cheese, I tried it 3 times that week. Every time, I become gassy, bloated and had mild stomach cramps. I have no problem with other types of dairy and never knew cottage cheese was a problem for me. But because I was eating so cleanly and feeling so good, I was able to tell the difference. So, now, no cottage cheese for me!

Many people have binge issues with peanut butter, though you have to follow the carb ladder to legumes before you can figure out if peanut butter is a problem for you.

Just my 2 cents worth! :)

abitobeef 03-27-2013 03:15 PM

adding better foods that have higher carbs gives you more variety.

Just Russ 03-27-2013 03:23 PM

I've always had to keep my carbs very low... no problem at all. The increased carbs are just to give you more flexibility... you don't HAVE TO use it or use it all the time.

AsmallerME 03-27-2013 03:33 PM

Dr. Atkins said it was a YMMV type of thing. Some need to add carbs to stay on plan. They do not do well with the restrictions of induction. But really, most people here climb the ladder and just keep to the induction level of carbs. And that's totally fine too. You get the best of both worlds - variety and ketosis. :)

snowmop 03-27-2013 05:42 PM

I've been staying at around 25-30 for years.

clackley 03-27-2013 05:45 PM

In my opinion, there is no reason to eat beyond 30g of carbs - ever. There are no 'essential' carbs.

nolcjunk 03-27-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellobrix (Post 16339489)
Do what works for you! There's no medical or biological or scientific reason a normal, healthy human body "needs" to eat carbohydrates.

The problem I see with that is lack of nutrients. Unless someone is eating a whole animal - every organ included, along with stomach contents, then there's a huge potential for nutrient deficiencies unless one takes a huge amount of supplements and even then you won't get everything.

I

nolcjunk 03-27-2013 05:50 PM

If you decide to stay at 30 grams all the way to goal I recommend getting most of those from vegetables, and not using a lot of them on AS, dairy, or other lc products.

picklepete 03-27-2013 09:36 PM

It's not a well studied area (a lot of research considers "low carb" 40% of energy for example).

Upside:
you won't curl up and die. A lot of people stay VLC for a variety of reasons such as preventing migraines and they seem okay.

Possible downsides:
- if the abstinence requires frequent willpower/restraint, the stress will not help you burn fat
- glucose will always be about 20% of your expenditure and manufacturing it from protein is expensive compared to eating a little whole food starch
- adequate potassium can be tough--you'll want lots of tomatoes
- some people assert that VLC will weaken your thyroid, adrenals, or leptin function over time but I don't think it's been formally studied

kiwistars 03-28-2013 02:47 AM

Well my mother hasn't eaten a visible carb for close to 10 years .I am guessing this would have her averaging under 30 carbs.She is still slim,happy and it does not seem to have affected her in any way medically.She is now 70,healthy and active. YMMV

Punkin 03-28-2013 04:10 AM

Carbs are just one source of fuel, the other two are proteins and fats. The problem with carbs comes from the fact that we tend to abuse the highly processed ones with our diet. This causes our insulin and sugar levels to go all out of wack. For some people this has added to incredible weight gain and an exhausted metabolism. The theory behind atkins is just to give that process a break and try to reverse the weight gain. Once your metabolism has been reset, you can probably go back to eating a reasonable amount of carbs. If you want. If not, you can stick to eating the other two fuel sources as your main sources for energy. It basically depends on preference and your own personal metabolism. Even diabetics can handle carbs with a closely monitored diet, if they want.

Alcmene 03-28-2013 04:54 AM

I think that if I was staying on 20-30 all the way to goal, once I get near I would start climbing the carb ladder, slowly and wisely. I love fruit so this would be one way of incorporating more fruit into my eating plan. Remember that as carbs go up your calories may go down, so as long as it is done slowly and you follow the ladder, your body should be able to make the adjustment.

clackley 03-28-2013 07:16 AM

A couple of people of note that have been ketogenic for long periods are Dr. Phinney and Gary Taubes which I believe are 10 yrs. in length. There are people on this forum who have also been long term ketogenic (which ususally means less than 30g).

The notion that ketosis might harm the thyroid, adrenal glands...metabolism are just that...an idea. There is no scientific proof. What there is scientific proof is that metabolic disease gets worse with the consumption of carbs. Of course the nature and amount is a significant factor but in my opinion, if one is already displaying symptoms of metabolic disease, it makes no sense to re incorporating carbs. I think the line in my signature really says it all....

WickedStitch 03-28-2013 07:45 AM

I don't believe there to be anything wrong with it. Years ago when I was seeing a Bariatric Dr, the plan they had their patients on was 30g/day.

biancasteeplechase 03-28-2013 08:08 AM

When you say "staying at 30 carbs all the way to goal", I think you've inadvertently answered your own question.

Because what are you planning to do after you reach your goal?

If you're going to stay below thirty carbs then, too, that's one thing. But just look at all the people who reach their goal, then quit doing what worked, and regain all the weight.

The reasoning behind adding back carbs in programs like DANDR is to let you figure out what carb levels you'll lose at, and what you'll maintain at, so that you can transition into Ongoing Weight Loss and later Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance instead of just making abrupt changes to your WOE once the scale reaches a certain number.

clackley 03-28-2013 09:16 AM

Another blogger that ascribes to long term ketosis is Dr. Peter Attia. He is very well written and answers many questions people have around ketosis.

spaceace 03-28-2013 11:45 AM

I just logged in and was excited to see so many posts. I appreciate everyone's input, and ability to state differering points of which, all of which are helpful. Thanks!

trishthedish 03-28-2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biancasteeplechase (Post 16341044)
When you say "staying at 30 carbs all the way to goal", I think you've inadvertently answered your own question.

Because what are you planning to do after you reach your goal?

If you're going to stay below thirty carbs then, too, that's one thing. But just look at all the people who reach their goal, then quit doing what worked, and regain all the weight.

The reasoning behind adding back carbs in programs like DANDR is to let you figure out what carb levels you'll lose at, and what you'll maintain at, so that you can transition into Ongoing Weight Loss and later Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance instead of just making abrupt changes to your WOE once the scale reaches a certain number.

:goodpost:
Since I now view LC as a way of life (as opposed to a diet), I have been increasing my carbs to figure my personal comfort zone and CCL. One thing I like about increasing my carbs is that I can always drop back down to Induction levels whenever I want to give my weight loss a boost. I fear that if I am always in the 20-30 carb range my body would adjust and that would be the level I needed to remain at for lifetime maintenance. For anyone that is happy in that range, I don't think it is unhealthy at all! I personally would prefer to maintain in the 50-75 carb range (healthy complex carbs of course!).

kitcub 03-28-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biancasteeplechase (Post 16341044)
When you say "staying at 30 carbs all the way to goal", I think you've inadvertently answered your own question.

Because what are you planning to do after you reach your goal?

If you're going to stay below thirty carbs then, too, that's one thing. But just look at all the people who reach their goal, then quit doing what worked, and regain all the weight.

The reasoning behind adding back carbs in programs like DANDR is to let you figure out what carb levels you'll lose at, and what you'll maintain at, so that you can transition into Ongoing Weight Loss and later Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance instead of just making abrupt changes to your WOE once the scale reaches a certain number.

:goodpost:

Yes, this is very true!

kittycitygirl 03-28-2013 05:24 PM

I stayed around 20 for most of my loss.

Janknitz 03-28-2013 05:56 PM

Quote:

The problem I see with that is lack of nutrients. Unless someone is eating a whole animal - every organ included, along with stomach contents, then there's a huge potential for nutrient deficiencies unless one takes a huge amount of supplements and even then you won't get everything.
I don't think you can support this statement with any peer reviewed scientific evidence. It IS good to eat organ meats as well as muscle meats, but limiting carbs to 30 grams/day will NOT deprive you of essential nutrients (although this is what vegans, vegetarians, hide-bound dieticians, and big grain companies would like us to think). Less than 30 grams/day still provides you with many nutrient dense vegetables and even some small servings of fruit (love my berries!).

Vegans, on the other hand, don't get adequate levels of some essential nutrients and do suffer from problems in the long term--e.g. vitamin B deficiency. Remember that grains must be FORTIFIED, and the vitamins they are fortified with are freely available in from other low carb dietary sources.

I've been under 30 for going on two years now, and don't intend to go any higher even when (if) I ever get to goal. My body feels great here!


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