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Old 03-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #1
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Ketosis help me get there quickly

I am totally out of control and want to give ketosis another shot at helping me control my eating. Any foods that work better than others for us binge eaters? I think I may do better 72 style? Honestly, I have tried so many times and so many ways I don't even know what works anymore
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 PM   #2
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I am truly sorry that you have such a hard time, Jeaniem. I know that you never give up though so you are a fighter even if you don't realize it. An egg and meat fast is probably the quickest way to get into ketosis. Have you tried the NK? It's working we'll for me and I have issues with binge eating.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:25 PM   #3
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Definitely check out the Nutritional Ketosis board... I used to kind of binge on my "trigger" foods and since starting LC I haven't had that issue anymore. NK really helps to take that hunger feeling away, and it builds good habits in my opinion

I agree that an egg and meat fast would probably be the best way to get into ketosis quickly, or just a fat fast in general. I'd say you want to watch you don't go WAY overboard on protein, but cutting those carbs and getting into ketosis should be first and foremost though. That's really where the hunger begins to shut off, and overeating stopped for me!

Good luck to you!
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:48 PM   #4
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The fastest way I've found is a 24 hour fast and then meat, eggs, and cheese only until ketosis is reached. About 3 days total
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:05 PM   #5
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For me, this helps:

Bacon
Rib eye
Boiled eggs with mayo
Ground beef
Pork chops

In unlimited quantities.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:44 PM   #6
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Chicken salad, egg salad, tuna salad, and macadamia nuts.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heheher View Post
The fastest way I've found is a 24 hour fast and then meat, eggs, and cheese only until ketosis is reached. About 3 days total
THIS always has helped me in the past! ALWAYS a go to after being out of control.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:20 AM   #8
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Meat/Fish/Eggs/Fat/2 cups of salad greens, basically Atkins 72 for few days.

Last edited by tobelowcarber; 03-26-2013 at 03:23 AM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:01 AM   #9
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Your goals are probably going to be to try to get your blood sugar and insulin levels stable. Its when these things go all out of wack that you are susceptible to bingeing. It helps when your brain is running on ketones as well, it makes it easier because you will get less cravings.

Many diets start out with the ketosis phase where you are eating LC for a couple of weeks. (ie. atkins induction). Now I think that first phase should ideally last longer especially for people who might have more of a problem with bingeing. I am thinking it should last more like two months. Then after 2 months you can slowly add back carbs. And it can't be interrupted by days off, because it sets you back. there are two main issues for binge eaters. Low blood sugar and producing too much insulin.

They recommend eating every 4 to 5 hours, and enough calories to prevent the liver from releasing glycogen stores to buffer the blood. This is what happens naturally when your blood sugar drops too low. This is a problem because the liver tends to release too much glycogen in some people which triggers insulin release. You also have to be careful with exercise, they recommend no more than 30 minutes at a time, you can do more but you may need a snack after 30 minutes. The other issue is eating too many carbs or too many fast digesting carbs at a meal. This causes the pancreas to release a lot more insulin than necessary which will also drop your blood sugar and encourage bingeing, especially if your brain is running on glucose.

Bingeing is physiologically based, it happens because of blood sugar highs and lows and because your brain is running on glucose. The psychological component is more of a memory, your brain remembers how to feed itself: quick sugary food when it is running out of energy. The induction period of atkins, keeps your body's glycogen stores low because you aren't eating carbs. the theory behind it is that the liver has no glycogen to buffer the blood. so it can't over release glycogen, causing the blood sugar to rise too quickly, causing excessive insulin release. It also forces the brain to run on ketones to help with the psychological component. If you add carbs back in you just have to learn how to manage your blood sugar so that you don't get the highs and lows. this will help reduce the binge response.

People who are susceptible to bingeing have an added challenge with respect to diet. the goal is more about managing blood sugar and insulin levels than losing weight. The weight loss is more secondary. Worry more about trying to get your blood sugar and insulin response under control before worrying about losing weight. The induction phase of atkins will be the first step, don't restrict the calories because you need the fat for ketosis. If you are really struggling which is what happened to me, you can switch some of the protein for a vLC veggie and smother it with a fatty sauce. I ate a lot of salads at first. but I have found that if I stay away from the lean proteins such as chicken breasts and egg whites I do better.

Hope that helps.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:56 AM   #10
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Jeaniem, good to see you! I think getting into ketosis and staying there is a good strategy for you. You need to eat only induction level foods as per Atkins list and be sure to pick the ones you love the most. Don't allow hunger and plan ahead. You can do this and we are all here to support you!!
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #11
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I'm also a binge-eater, and here's what helps me.

1 - to get to ketosis quickly, cut carbs to zero for three days, no limits on amount of food - only on carbohydrates.

2 - I just started using 5-HTP and my self-control is better, and the feeling of "OMG MUST HAVE" something starchy has greatly subsided. I chose a time-release formula, because the half-life is very short and I knew it would be better for me to take one tablet daily instead of one prior to each meal.

3 - have all acceptable foods prepared and ready well in advance of eating. Don't wait until you're hungry to think about what to have because your self-control will be tested. Know what you'll eat tomorrow before you go to bed today.

HTH!!!

***And remember: the worst of it takes three days. You can do anything for three days!

Last edited by Yellobrix; 03-26-2013 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #12
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Thank you everyone. Does eating unlimited for the three days really work? I am afraid of NK, I don't think I could limit protein successfully.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:29 PM   #13
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Jeanie, limiting protein is not hard once you understand how much is in your food. However, I really think you should concentrate on getting into ketosis without monitoring your protein. This will almost certainly happen if you severely restrict your carbs (20g at most) and make sure you are eating enough fat (i.e. not avoiding it by eating lean animal sources).

Another tip for getting into and staying in ketosis is the consumption of MCT oil and coconut oil. They both are ketogenic and will help you along the way.

Last edited by clackley; 03-26-2013 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:23 PM   #14
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Thanks Cathy. I am going to pull out my Atkins 72 book this evening.


I have a whole bottle of mct oil and some coconut oil as well but don't know how to incorporate them into my diet, I didn't like either one in my coffee/tea. I did try frying eggs w/ the coc.oil and didn't care for that either. Any other ideas? I have tried the coc. bark as well.

Last edited by jeaniem; 03-26-2013 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Thank you everyone. Does eating unlimited for the three days really work? I am afraid of NK, I don't think I could limit protein successfully.
Technically the reason why protein is a more acceptable choice than carbs is because it doesn't elicit an insulin response. The body won't convert protein into glucose right away to provide fuel it is almost like a secondary fuel source after it is used for other things. Some people therefore will not get an insulin response when eating a lot of protein at one meal. Ketosis is easier if you are eating more fat than protein/carbs. Because if your diet is really high fat, it forces your body to burn fat for fuel whether it wants to or not. I had problems with protein at first so I decided to switch the protein at meals to a VLC veggie instead. Then smothered it with fat, so that I could up my fat without sacrificing the size of my meals. It seemed to work. I can tolerate more protein now, but it seems as though it needs to be the fattier types of proteins: salmon, hard cheese, ground beef etc. You might not have to cut down on your protein to achieve ketosis and maintain a reasonable losing state. Maybe in the beginning once reseting your metabolism you might have to stick with a very high fat diet, but once your blood sugar and insulin levels stabilize you might be able to eat a lot of protein.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Thanks Cathy. I am going to pull out my Atkins 72 book this evening.


I have a whole bottle of mct oil and some coconut oil as well but don't know how to incorporate them into my diet, I didn't like either one in my coffee/tea. I did try frying eggs w/ the coc.oil and didn't care for that either. Any other ideas? I have tried the coc. bark as well.
Other than using c. Oil or cooking and fat bombs, I don't know how else to incorporate it but I am sure there are threads with good ideas. It is useful but not a must by any means. As for the mct oil, maybe use it in salad dressings.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellobrix View Post
I'm also a binge-eater, and here's what helps me.

1 - to get to ketosis quickly, cut carbs to zero for three days, no limits on amount of food - only on carbohydrates.

2 - I just started using 5-HTP and my self-control is better, and the feeling of "OMG MUST HAVE" something starchy has greatly subsided. I chose a time-release formula, because the half-life is very short and I knew it would be better for me to take one tablet daily instead of one prior to each meal.

3 - have all acceptable foods prepared and ready well in advance of eating. Don't wait until you're hungry to think about what to have because your self-control will be tested. Know what you'll eat tomorrow before you go to bed today.

HTH!!!

***And remember: the worst of it takes three days. You can do anything for three days!
Thanks I ordered the time released 5thp today
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:34 PM   #18
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Jeanie, maybe you can eat the coconut oil straight from the spoon. I find it really delicious.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #19
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How much do you take Marika?
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:38 AM   #20
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In some recipes that called for coconut milk, I made a mixture of 1/2 cup water, 2 tbsns of heavy cream and 1 tsp coconut oil, instead of using coconut milk. I prefer fresh coconut milk but we have some issues getting it where I live.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:44 AM   #21
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How much do you take Marika?
When I remember to take it and have calories to spare anywhere from 1 tsp to 2 tbs a day. I have not taken it regularly to report results (only started last week), but I have read others taking like 2 tbs a day. Maybe they can chime in.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:13 AM   #22
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I also eat coconut oil from the spoon. I don't measure, but maybe about a tablespoon. I don't find it delicious but not gross at all, just indifferent really. For me, it's the simplest way to get my coconut oil in daily. I used to make the chocolate bark, but unless I really want it, it's easier just to eat the CO by itself. Quicker too
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:19 PM   #23
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I need some input ladies. Breakfast was coffee w/cream and a tbl. of mct oil, snack mid morning of one ounce cheddar cheese, lunch was roasted chicken, dinner was a large pork blade steak and some pork rinds. I was really full after dinner but now am hungry. Does this perhaps mean that there was too much protein in my diet today. I really am amazed that I am hungry after feeling so full after dinner. Should I eat more protein or a gob of butter or what? Please don't tell me to just go to bed hungry I know if I start doing that I will be binging in no time at all.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
Your goals are probably going to be to try to get your blood sugar and insulin levels stable. Its when these things go all out of wack that you are susceptible to bingeing. It helps when your brain is running on ketones as well, it makes it easier because you will get less cravings.

Many diets start out with the ketosis phase where you are eating LC for a couple of weeks. (ie. atkins induction). Now I think that first phase should ideally last longer especially for people who might have more of a problem with bingeing. I am thinking it should last more like two months. Then after 2 months you can slowly add back carbs. And it can't be interrupted by days off, because it sets you back. there are two main issues for binge eaters. Low blood sugar and producing too much insulin.

They recommend eating every 4 to 5 hours, and enough calories to prevent the liver from releasing glycogen stores to buffer the blood. This is what happens naturally when your blood sugar drops too low. This is a problem because the liver tends to release too much glycogen in some people which triggers insulin release. You also have to be careful with exercise, they recommend no more than 30 minutes at a time, you can do more but you may need a snack after 30 minutes. The other issue is eating too many carbs or too many fast digesting carbs at a meal. This causes the pancreas to release a lot more insulin than necessary which will also drop your blood sugar and encourage bingeing, especially if your brain is running on glucose.

Bingeing is physiologically based, it happens because of blood sugar highs and lows and because your brain is running on glucose. The psychological component is more of a memory, your brain remembers how to feed itself: quick sugary food when it is running out of energy. The induction period of atkins, keeps your body's glycogen stores low because you aren't eating carbs. the theory behind it is that the liver has no glycogen to buffer the blood. so it can't over release glycogen, causing the blood sugar to rise too quickly, causing excessive insulin release. It also forces the brain to run on ketones to help with the psychological component. If you add carbs back in you just have to learn how to manage your blood sugar so that you don't get the highs and lows. this will help reduce the binge response.

People who are susceptible to bingeing have an added challenge with respect to diet. the goal is more about managing blood sugar and insulin levels than losing weight. The weight loss is more secondary. Worry more about trying to get your blood sugar and insulin response under control before worrying about losing weight. The induction phase of atkins will be the first step, don't restrict the calories because you need the fat for ketosis. If you are really struggling which is what happened to me, you can switch some of the protein for a vLC veggie and smother it with a fatty sauce. I ate a lot of salads at first. but I have found that if I stay away from the lean proteins such as chicken breasts and egg whites I do better.

Hope that helps.
I didn't understand lot of things you said cus I don't understand some of the terms such as bingeing, but in regards to one of the things you said; when you're in ketosis, it's advised not to exercise excessively? or am I misunderstanding out of context?
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:25 PM   #25
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I would go for fat and not protein. Good job today Jeanie!
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:41 AM   #26
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I ended up not eating anything. I had lots of meats precooked on hand but honestly could not figure out how to have some fat.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:08 AM   #27
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That is ok but how about some cheese or even coconut butter from the spoon next time?
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #28
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I've been finding myself with the same problem, so I know where you are coming from I can stay on track all day but night time is when I want to binge, especially on Atkins bars. I have just decided NOT to buy them anymore and keep pork rinds and fat bombs on hand.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:38 AM   #29
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Didn't think of cheese. I guess ideally we want the food to have more fat grams than protein grams. I haven't heard of coconut butter,I think I could mix some of my coconut oil with kerrygold butter.


Demonica I stopped buying the Atkins bars when I discovered I could eat an entire box in a sitting despite knowing the GI effects would not be good!

Last edited by jeaniem; 03-28-2013 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:14 AM   #30
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A decent quality cheddar will have more fat than protein. I think it is something like 11g of fat to 8g of protein for 1 oz.. Better choices are things like coconut butter are far better with a 2 tbsp. serving delivering up 18g of fat to 2g of protein. These types of differences in food (particularly the protein component) were a bit of a learning curve for me. I love to use my on line food tracker or the USDA nutrient data site to find out what the details really are.

BTW, I am one that LOVES butter. To me, it is like a fine cheese and I have been known to eat it like it was. As it happens, butter has some 'traits' that are very good for you and are hard to find elsewhere, so don't be afraid to eat it. Just don't go overboard!!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

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