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Old 03-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #31
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I see Doc tomorrow morning. I'm going to ask for a retest with a vap and see what he says. There is no doubt that I have a genetic predisposition to heart disease. As I have said before, my dad who was thin, died of massive coronary at age 48.
It's like this...I don't WANT to take statins because I don't like taking ANY meds unless I have to. But if that is what I need for optimal health than so be it. I am grateful that I live in this era of sophisticated medicine and these treatments are available to me.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:20 PM   #32
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I see Doc tomorrow morning. I'm going to ask for a retest with a vap and see what he says. There is no doubt that I have a genetic predisposition to heart disease. As I have said before, my dad who was thin, died of massive coronary at age 48.
It's like this...I don't WANT to take statins because I don't like taking ANY meds unless I have to. But if that is what I need for optimal health than so be it. I am grateful that I live in this era of sophisticated medicine and these treatments are available to me.
You have an awesome outlook! I hope you have a great visit with the doctor tomorrow!
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:12 PM   #33
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OMG!! Got the written lab report...Nurse had it wrong when she called.
My LDL was recorded at 216!!
Everything went totally haywire.....
Can't wait to see Doc tomorrow. Gotta get these numbers re checked with that LDL broken down to the large and the small.
Wow! Amazing how a person can feel so good when things inside are not good at all.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:28 PM   #34
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I don't think you're going to be happy with VAP test results. When I was tested, my endo told me that his patients who have the 'large, fluffy' LDL (Pattern A) tend to have HIGH HDL and very low trigs.

My VAP showed 100% Pattern A, but my HDL runs 95-110, and my trigs are always below 50. Lest you think it's my low-carb eating, my sister, who eats a high-carb SAD, has similar lipid numbers. So much of this is genetic.

Your low HDL points to the genetic issue with cholesterol, and the good news is that it can be controlled by meds.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #35
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Your low HDL points to the genetic issue with cholesterol, and the good news is that it can be controlled by meds


Yes, and YES....Had statins been around 50 years ago my dad may have lived a much longer life.
LEO41 Very glad to hear about your blood lipid profile. May you live long and prosper.
Something else occurred to me though about my triglyceride numbers.
I have been eating alot of coconut oil lately. I wonder if the mct's in the coconut oil are being picked up by the test? And if so, does it make sense to raise my triglyceride numbers with co only to require meds (tricor) to lower it?
My head hurts LOL
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:52 PM   #36
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My experience with CO is that it raised my LDL. That's the reason I abandoned it (at my endo's suggestion).

Despite the fact that my LDL is Pattern A, all my doctors say that there's really nothing 'good' about an elevated LDL.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:38 AM   #37
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Saw doc this morning....we talked about the vap test....he thinks it's a good test and mentioned some other sophisticated lipid profiles coming out of Berkley and Cleveland. Each does it a little differently. He considers the first order of business to be getting my standard test numbers down to acceptable levels. He made a comment similar to Leo41 that my "elevated LDL is not good so let's get it down and then we talk about about taking a closer look" Made sense to me. So it's back on the meds with a re-test and visit with him in three months.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:53 PM   #38
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I know you and your doctor will get you to optimum health!

I'm a 'health-conscious 70 someting,' and I know how important it is to keep tabs on our 'numbers.'
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #39
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:33 PM   #40
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:01 PM   #41
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avid, Jimmy Moore did a podcast early last summer with Dr. Thomas Dayspring, a/k/a "Dr. Lipid". He did mention some additional testing that is recommended, and some newer tests that are now available (I think he said there are 2 new tests that are now available, but 1 was better than the other). You should take a listen. Honestly, some of the stuff was WAY over my head, but I saved the podcast to go back through for another listen just in case my lipid #s start to head south.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:47 AM   #42
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Avid,

When I posted the other day I was in a hurry and I missed some info about LDL

This is from pages 167 and 168 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living.

There is one anomaly in clinical testing that physicians and patients shold be aware of: a transient rise in serum total LDL cholesterol that can occur with major weight loss. We reported this in 1991 [101], and our research revealed the cause. It turns out that along with the triglycerides stored in adipose tissue, our fat cells also contains a small amount of dissolved cholesterol. After 30 pounds of weight loss, the shrinkage of these cellular fat droplets proceed to the point that some of this cholesterol has to be released into the serum. The amount of cholesterol involved is 100-200 mg per day in someone losing 2 pounds of adipose tissue per week. Interestingly, although this represents 'reverse transport' back to the liver, This cholesterol appears in the LDL fraction. But once a person's weight loss ceases, this expulsion of cholesterol stored in the adipose tissue stops and the serum LDL cholesterol returns to its new post weight-loss baseline.
So if you or your patient experience a rise in serum LDL cholesterol as the scale passes 30 or more pounds of weight loss, don't panic. This is sign that your body is dumping previously accumulated cholesterol. Since this situation typically lasts only a month or two, whereas it takes decades of elevated LDL cholesterol to cause blood vessel damage, the probability of any clinical risk is very small. Wail until your weight has stabilized in maintenance for a month or two and then test you LDL level again to be sure it has come back down.


I hope this is of help to you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:14 PM   #43
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Yes, thank you.
I recall reading something similar to that. It's why I believe that my jump
in both ldl and triglycerides is due to my weight loss.
I do have a genetic predisposition to high cholesterol and heart disease, so I may always be on some type of lipid lowering meds, but I do wish to minimize the amount of ALL meds I take. I am optimistic that at some point in the future, perhaps after I leave OWL and go to maintenance that in partnership with my doctor, we can lower my reilance on statins.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #44
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I have to watch my LDL numbers due to Hashimoto's (hypothyroid). My HDL was 75 and triglycerides were 35. 75 is really good for me. My LDL was 114. I do believe all the cardio I added in to weight lifting contributed to my increased HDL.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:56 PM   #45
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Avid, I've been researching cholesterol and I came across something that may link your recent weight loss with increased triglycerides.

Dr. Davis (Wheat Belly) has a blog post titled “I lost 30 lbs and my triglycerides went . . . up?” It is at his TrackYourPlaque blog. He discusses how large weight losses can temporarily increase both LDL and triglycerides. It also mentions lower HDL.

Dr Davis calls this “transitional” changes in lipids.

I wonder why some people see an increase but others see a decrease?

Anyway, if this is what is behind your recent numbers, you may be able to successfully go off statins after a few months of maintaining.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:18 PM   #46
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Ok, so tough question here...do you drink alcohol? And only you know for sure--your level of consumption if any...

But will you be willing to share with us about this information?

How much per day/what per day/how many times per week?

Thank!

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:05 PM   #47
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Avid, I haven't been here long at all as a member, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. And you would be the guy who I would swear has been quite faithful to a LC WOE, losing weight all along, and keeping the faith. You have always been positive and upbeat.

But yeah, it may just be hereditary, and as other posters have said, you may be the person who can really benefit from these drugs. Statins may suck, but sometimes they don't suck as much as the alternative.

I LOVE your attitude. Indeed, partner up with your doctor, get back on the meds but never stop learning and searching. I think we all know the health care industry, doctors included, don't know it all.

So yeah on this VAP test thing. We must all be our own health advocates. In the meantime, you've lost weight, and that's very good, and I doubt your dr. would disagree.

Onward, and cheers to you, and all you've accomplished.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
My experience with CO is that it raised my LDL. That's the reason I abandoned it (at my endo's suggestion).

Despite the fact that my LDL is Pattern A, all my doctors say that there's really nothing 'good' about an elevated LDL.
It's all so confusing. The guy who wrote "The Cholesterol Myth," says LDL of the large puffy stick to nothing type, is not a concern. It's just so darn hard to know what's what.

After reading Gary Taubes "Why we get fat," I'm not feeling very trusting of the health care industry, including doctors, on THIS issue. My brother is a cardiologist and he has totally read up on all of this, as many doctors have not.
He doesn't claim to know it all, but he is VERY supportive of Taubes, and recommends his book to his patients. But he says he's still in the minority.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:35 PM   #49
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I read Wheat Belly and yes, I do believe that my spike in numbers could very well be related to the weight loss loading my blood stream with fat. If this is the case then indeed my lipid level should improve once I stop losing.
I don't mind sharing that I drink very little. I had an off plan day a few days ago, and part of that indulgence was one bottle of beer. First alcohol I've had in months. May I ask why you think this relevant?
Alas there is no doubt that my genetic makeup predisposes me to heart disease. My fathers passing at age 48 from a heart attack proves this grim fact.
But I am alive and kicking, and as much as I hate taking any meds, if statins are to be a way of life for me then so be it.
I'm just not willing to give in to this just yet. Doc and I agree that once I get my numbers back down via the meds we will then pursue more detailed profiling.

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Old 04-14-2013, 07:18 PM   #50
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Avid, I have enjoyed following our progress and admire your dedication to your health and to staying off meds. That's my goal too. It sucks that your triglycerides spiked.
I got a call from my doc about my chol going from 209 to 260. She is freaked but I think it is due to going back to the gym and mobilizing fat. She did note that my Trig were down to 58 from 80. She's confused!
Just keep an eye on things.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:23 PM   #51
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First alcohol I've had in months. May I ask why you think this relevant?
Apparently it doesnt apply in your case... but regularly drinking alcohol can cause elevated triglycerides. It doesnt have to be a lot of alcohol in susceptible patients... even something like a glass of wine or two daily can cause it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:04 PM   #52
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If I were concerned about coronary artery disease, I'd probably get a scan. Wouldn't that be a better indicator of risk than serum cholesterol?

A search led me to an article in Science Daily titled Heart Calcium Scan Most Effective in Predicting Risk of Heart Disease It's worth a quick read.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:28 PM   #53
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If I were concerned about coronary artery disease, I'd probably get a scan. Wouldn't that be a better indicator of risk than serum cholesterol?

A search led me to an article in Science Daily titled Heart Calcium Scan Most Effective in Predicting Risk of Heart Disease It's worth a quick read.
Thanks. I'll check it out.

The more I read the more I come across educated doctors stating that cholesterol levels really are not good predictors of heart disease. Lots of people with good cholesterol drop dead of heart attacks.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:37 PM   #54
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Avid- If you get a chance pick up a copy of The great cholesterol myth. A most informative book. I read it last week because it is written by an author that I admire and I have so many friends in their early 30's who are on meds. I have already passed it on to one that promised to read it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #55
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Avid- If you get a chance pick up a copy of The great cholesterol myth. A most informative book. I read it last week because it is written by an author that I admire and I have so many friends in their early 30's who are on meds. I have already passed it on to one that promised to read it.
How difficult is it to read & understand? I'd love to get this for my mom (in her late 80s; been trying to get her to stop statins for years) but I am afraid it might overwhelm her.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #56
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How difficult is it to read & understand? I'd love to get this for my mom (in her late 80s; been trying to get her to stop statins for years) but I am afraid it might overwhelm her.
I thought it was a great read. I like Jonny Bowden's humor and he is easy to read. There is alot of info about Low Carb, dangers of sugar, etc that is probably common knowledge for many from this site. He gives detailed information about specific drugs but I sort of skimmed that section since I don't take any.

I bought it to read since a few friends mentioned that they couldn't eat shrimp? I passed it on to a good friend who's husband is early 30's and his Dr. has had him on statins since he was a teen. I hope it helps them make an informed decision.

I think the book was pretty cheap on Amazon. My 80 yr. old mom enjoyed it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #57
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Thanks so much! That is good to hear.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #58
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Avid- thought I would pass this on. Our buddy Fawn (Misty) posted on FB that this is available free for a limited time. Yes, it is long.

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Old 04-17-2013, 05:19 PM   #59
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Avid- If you get a chance pick up a copy of The great cholesterol myth. A most informative book. I read it last week because it is written by an author that I admire and I have so many friends in their early 30's who are on meds. I have already passed it on to one that promised to read it.
Dr Sinatra and Bowden were on Dr Oz again today talking about this book. Repeat from earlier this year. Loved it!!! If you go to Dr Oz's website, he has the clip you can watch.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:31 AM   #60
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How difficult is it to read & understand? I'd love to get this for my mom (in her late 80s; been trying to get her to stop statins for years) but I am afraid it might overwhelm her.
I have The Great Cholesterol Myth by Dr. Kendrick (British humor and all) and my 91 yr. old Mom (soon to be 92) read it last year. She said "What an education!" Not difficult to read at all.
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