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Marvin 02-15-2013 10:23 AM

The best way to do a "Crash" weight loss
 
For a variety of reasons, I have decided that I'd like to lose a significant amount of fat weight in 30 days. Essentially, I'm looking to lose inches and maintain muscle mass, so I guess a "signficant number of inches" though it's easier, I think, to measure progress over that time period by looking at pounds. I'm thinking about 8.5% of my body weight, or about 30 lbs in 30 days.

What's the best way (low carb, of course) of doing that? Is it going strictly meat and eggs? Is it Atkins '72? At the end of the 30 days, I would be looking to switch over to more traditional Induction, moving up the OWL ladder etc., so I'm not looking to do this long-term. 30 days essentially.

I realize whether I do meet that goal or not is subject to a lot of variables, but what would you folks recommend based on your own experiences?

Specifically I'm looking for advice on food limitations (perhaps more strict than DANDR) and what to avoid, best foods to eat, whether to limit fats at all, Fat/Protein/Carb ratios, etc. Also, what types of exercise would be best -- I realize that starting an exercise program will potentially cause one to "gain" due to muscle gain, retaining water in muscles, etc., but again, since the "real" objective is inches, I'm less concerned about those pounds.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Pitfalls?

AsmallerME 02-15-2013 10:54 AM

Just do Atkins '72 and you'll probably lose it in the first month. Kemp (a guy who started around 280), just lost over 20 pounds in less than 20 days. He keeps to mostly meat/egg and a few veggies, but not many. But he exercises every day I think.

jmc305 02-15-2013 03:42 PM

IMHO the "best" way to crash diet is not to do it at all. I would say you need as much weight training as possible and supplement with L-glutamine. Even then, in my opinion you will still lose a lot of water weight, and you might feel terrible during this 30 day crash period. I am just one of those "slow and steady" kind of people. But good luck if you do it. :)

CindyCRNA 02-15-2013 06:21 PM

Egg fast? I'm guessing here but a semi-calorie restricted zero carb may be the ticket.

Marvin 02-16-2013 04:42 AM

Amber - thanks for your answer. That's kind of what I'm looking for...for people who have made that major drop starting out and how they've done it.

JMC - understood, slow and steady is the name of the long term game but for some very selfish reasons, I want to drop as much as I can in 30 days. Tell me - what does the l-glutamine do?

Thanks Cindy for your reply as well. That's what I'm thinking.

Anyone else?

mizzcase 02-16-2013 04:49 AM

Hi Marvin, l-glutamine helps stave off carb craving.

For fast, fast, (unsustainable long term) weight loss, check out the Stillman's QWL plan. Its basically 0-carb, low fat, high lean protein. Eggs, chicken breast, fish, etc. No added fat-- no oil or butter added in cooking, etc. There is a board on here.

For what its worth, I am already pretty small and I lose startlingly fast on a LCHF/NK plan. There is also a board for that WOE as well.

Good luck.

Trillex 02-16-2013 06:00 AM

I'm related to a lot of bodybuilders -- including both of my brothers -- and there's an extreme bodybuilding diet called a "protein-sparing modified fast" (PSMF) that is used by bodybuilders who find out, too late, that their super-confident coach didn't really know what he was doing and so they're now stuck with too much bodyfat too close to competition. At that point, they have to cut *fat* without losing much muscle so they use the PSMF.

Lyle McDonald has a book called The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook that outlines the specific details of an approach to doing the PSMF. He didn't invent the PSMF dieting technique, which he admits in the book. McDonald's handbook took this tool from the bodybuilding subculture and he explains its origin in obesity research and he also explains *how* it can be adapted and used by low-bodyfat pre-contest bodybuilders, average-bodyfat people who have a special event that that they quickly need to lose weight for, and obese-level bodyfat people who want to see quick short-term gains (losses) before transitioning to a more standard weight loss program.

In my opinion, the diet is a food nightmare -- only a *very* specific amount of protein in a formula based on the dieter's lean body mass (along with essential fatty acids), and the book gives dieters who haven't had their bodyfat level tested a formula to ROUGHLY calculate their lean body mass. The book includes a food list and it contains, literally, about 10 foods.

McDonald also explains how to integrate workouts, based on whether the dieter is a pre-contest bodybuilder (extremely low bodyfat) or preparing for a special event (average/healthy bodyfat) or obese and looking to transition to a long-term diet. Basically, bodybuilders would do weight training, average/healthy bodyfat individuals might benefit from low-intensity cardio, and obese individuals have the metabolic *advantage* of not needing exercise to lose the maximum amount of weight/fat on a PSMF. The book explains the differences in fat loss vs weight loss, and explains why different starting levels of bodyfat have different prescriptions with regard to weight/fat loss. Fat operates as its own endocrine system, in some ways, so obese dieters have a hormonal and metabolic environment that is different from bodies that contain lower levels of bodyfat. Most obese bodies don't experience the rapid thyroid and sympathetic nervous system down-regulation that very lean bodies experience, but adding exercise exertion to the draconian nutritional deprivation of a PSMF can induce a metabolic slowdown. The book explains how and why this happens.

The book also explains ways to transition from the PSMF to another diet, for obese dieters who have more fat to lose, or back to a *normal* diet for people who use the PSMF to quickly lose weight for a special event. Pre-contest bodybuilders are different because they typically already have plans in place.

You wanted advice from people's personal experiences, so I must admit that I have never done a PSMF -- I've been very happy with my moderate but steady pace on DANDR. I do, however, know bodybuilders who have used a PSMF in desperate situations. It's actually quite common and has been used for decades -- stretching back to an old school bodybuilding diet called "the fish and water" diet. These guys have very little bodyfat when they start dieting and the PSMF is a draconian approach that a well-coached bodybuilder should never have to use, but sometimes coaching falls short and the PSMF quickly cuts pounds of fat in desperate situations.

I wouldn't normally mention a bodybuilding technique to someone who has more bodyfat than bodybuilders -- who are rarely lower than 10% bodyfat when they start "cutting" -- because most bodybuilding techniques are optimized for bodybuilders *specifically* because they have extremely low levels of bodyfat or their nutritional approach works because it's coordinated with metabolic advantages that come from heavy weight training. But the PSMF, as McDonald explains, actually comes from obesity research and has been effectively used to treat obese bodies. And I mention the book because McDonald explains *how* and *why* the PSMF works in bodies that have different starting levels of bodyfat.

One of my close buddies is a bodybuilder who has used the PSMF to "cut" for competitions. His wife, who was in a really bad situation after having a baby, used McDonald's PSMF to diet down and lose the last 30 pounds that she *couldn't* lose on any other diet. She tried EVERYTHING to lose that last 30 pounds -- Weight Watchers, Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig, Dukan, water fasting, everything -- AND she had a bodybuilder (her husband) monitoring every bite she ate. For some weird reason, her body changed and she just couldn't lose that last 30 pounds. It was driving them crazy! He thought she was sneaking food. She thought she was starving. Finally, when he was using the PSMF to cut for a competition, he told her to do the PSMF with him for a week and that, if she didn't lose any weight on it, then he would know that she was sneaking food from somewhere. She did the PSMF, really just to see what would happen, and she lost the last of her baby weight in a month -- after she had spent almost 5 years losing and re-gaining the same 5 pounds. She ended up gaining 10 pounds back after she transitioned off the PSMF but she was actually able to lose those pounds over the course of a year just by doing a South Beach type diet, which was her favorite of all of the diets that she had previously tried. Once she got down to her pre-pregnancy weight, her metabolism seemed to stop fighting her.

Anyway, that's the PSMF, for what it's worth...

mizzcase 02-16-2013 06:50 AM

Excellent post as usual, trillex.

margame 02-16-2013 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizzcase (Post 16262215)
Excellent post as usual, trillex.

i agree!

trillex, i luv reading your informative posts.

jmc305 02-16-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin (Post 16262060)
Amber - thanks for your answer. That's kind of what I'm looking for...for people who have made that major drop starting out and how they've done it.

JMC - understood, slow and steady is the name of the long term game but for some very selfish reasons, I want to drop as much as I can in 30 days. Tell me - what does the l-glutamine do?

Thanks Cindy for your reply as well. That's what I'm thinking.

Anyone else?

Well, L-glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our bodies, but it can still get depleted through hard weight training. Hard weight training is what you will need to preserve muscle mass while trying to lose fat. And yes, people take it for sugar cravings as well.

picklepete 02-16-2013 09:14 AM

30 days is a long time so you will need something sustainable. I've watched friends and family attempt various 30-day challenges and virtually all of them cry uncle on day 5 or 6--your mental state and perception of time will change if it's too severe.

Marvin 02-16-2013 11:55 AM

Thank you for all of the great information! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

mom23kids 02-16-2013 01:13 PM

You could try a meat and egg fast or a potato fast-gobs of info on the potato hack on mda :)

MaryMary 02-16-2013 01:22 PM

What is happening in your life in 30 days that makes or breaks it? Do you win $1000?

tiva 02-16-2013 01:30 PM

I'd suggest a combination of low carb/high fat/calorie restriction (not the Stillman's low fat version). Monotony will be your best friend (not in the long term!). Meat/eggs/butter & coconut oil/and leafy greens will probably work--if servings are moderate.

So: you'll need to figure out your ideal # of carbs and also (alas) calories. Then you'll need to weigh, measure, and track. I'd suggest buying a $15 digital scale, since they're a lot more accurate than volume measures. If your food is boring, you'll eat less (well, that's true for most people).

If, for some reason, I want to lose a few lbs quickly, I scramble together burger, eggs, butter or coconut oil, spinach, and lots of chili pepper. It fills me up, it's boring after a while, and if I don't feel like a scoop, I know I'm not really hungry. I'll eat about 1200 calories a day of this, but your numbers would be different.

If you're doing this for more than a week, add dark leafy greens! (Or eat plenty of organ meats and bone broths). Otherwise you'll soon be lacking in nutrients, and a month is pretty long to go on too restricted a diet.

Good luck!

TSEB 02-16-2013 02:42 PM

Agreed, PSMF is probably the fastest way to go. It takes a huge amount of mental fortitude to make it through. The most I was able to do was like 10 days, and during that time I was pretty short tempered. I was continuing to weight train and do cardio though, which one wasn't really suppose to do.

Marvin 02-16-2013 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryMary (Post 16262796)
What is happening in your life in 30 days that makes or breaks it? Do you win $1000?

I wish! Actually it's for a variety of reasons, some of which I'm keeping totally to myself ;) but I will tell you one. I'm going on a trip, flying Southwest, and want to sit in the exit row. If you need a seatbelt extender :o you can't sit in the exit row. There's one series of the 737s that the seatbelts are shorter and I need an extender :(

I haven't yet been charged for two seats, but I never want to get to that point either!!!

MaryMary 02-16-2013 07:34 PM

Good point, Marvin. I remember flying and having to ask for an extender belt. One trip, I kept it so I wouldn't have to ask on the return flight. Thanks for sharing and good luck!

ohiocat 02-17-2013 07:58 AM

I started Atkins last March and lost 23 pounds in 30 days which was 9% of my body weight.

I didn't do any crazy fasts, but I stuck to induction 100% without any tastes or bites of off plan food. I didn't go crazy with bacon, but ate reasonable portions of healthy foods, tried to reach 20 net carbs every day (some days I fell short). My calories were in the 1300-1500 range. I wasn't really trying to limit calories, but I wasn't going to injest extra fat just to get them up either.

I ate no artificial sweetners. I did have some diet soda every day, but didn't EAT anything sweet. I didn't eat any fake breads or flax products. I didn't use any heavy cream. I didn't have any alcohol for that first 30 days.

I worked out at the gym 3 days a week doing a mix of cardio and strength training. I think it was a great start to my weight loss journey and helped build the foundation for the way I eat now. I have re-introduced a lot of things and have continued to lose well.

I would strongly encourage you to think about a clean Atkins induction without the "products", but keeping the variety that makes it sustainable.

Whatever you choose, best wishes for lots of success.

QueenBacon 02-17-2013 08:14 AM

my vote is for the atkins 72.. KEEP IT SIMPLE!
and dont find replacements for unhealthy foods.. for example, you love chocolate ganache cupcakes, so you find a low carb replacement.. great its low in carbs, but its full of crap thats going to bloat you, and usually they have the same amount of calories if not more for the low carb verson.

Marvin 02-17-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiocat (Post 16263747)
I started Atkins last March and lost 23 pounds in 30 days which was 9% of my body weight.

I didn't do any crazy fasts, but I stuck to induction 100% without any tastes or bites of off plan food. I didn't go crazy with bacon, but ate reasonable portions of healthy foods, tried to reach 20 net carbs every day (some days I fell short). My calories were in the 1300-1500 range. I wasn't really trying to limit calories, but I wasn't going to injest extra fat just to get them up either.

I ate no artificial sweetners. I did have some diet soda every day, but didn't EAT anything sweet. I didn't eat any fake breads or flax products. I didn't use any heavy cream. I didn't have any alcohol for that first 30 days.

I worked out at the gym 3 days a week doing a mix of cardio and strength training. I think it was a great start to my weight loss journey and helped build the foundation for the way I eat now. I have re-introduced a lot of things and have continued to lose well.

I would strongly encourage you to think about a clean Atkins induction without the "products", but keeping the variety that makes it sustainable.

Whatever you choose, best wishes for lots of success.

Thank you for your story and congrats on your weight loss. One question--was this your first time doing low carb? I know with my first time I know I lost about 18 lbs my first 2 weeks; can't remember what I did in my first 30 days, but I'm guessing it was close to 25 or 30. However, every induction since then, it has not been as effective; partly because I have less to lose, but also partly it could be the golden first time that many people refer to.

Marvin 02-17-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerry (Post 16263778)
my vote is for the atkins 72.. KEEP IT SIMPLE!
and dont find replacements for unhealthy foods.. for example, you love chocolate ganache cupcakes, so you find a low carb replacement.. great its low in carbs, but its full of crap thats going to bloat you, and usually they have the same amount of calories if not more for the low carb verson.

Great points. I also liked Tiva's point about the good side of the food becoming monotonous. I have noticed that in the past; have also noted that when in ketosis, I don't care much about food at all, which is also a good thing.

I'm three days in now, and other than the headaches from the induction flu, all is going well. A little sore from starting up the activity again, but it's a good sore. Primarily doing Meat and eggs, with only a few veggies; pretty close to Atkins 72 as I'm avoiding the cream cheese, cured meats, etc.

QueenBacon 02-17-2013 08:36 AM

you can do it!

lbecker28 02-17-2013 09:02 AM

The most effective thing for me to get pounds off quickly has been high fat and as close to 0 carbs as I can get. For me that is a couple eggs in butter for breakfast, then a burger for lunch and dinner. I usually come in around 1150 calories, but I am only 5 ft 1. I drink tons of water and take a good multi vitamin. For exercise I do 30 minutes of intervals, but don't push too hard. The pounds come off pretty fast. Seems to be what my body likes.

Mistizoom 02-17-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryMary (Post 16263268)
Good point, Marvin. I remember flying and having to ask for an extender belt. One trip, I kept it so I wouldn't have to ask on the return flight. Thanks for sharing and good luck!

I hopefully will no longer need a seatbelt extender for my plane trip next month, but if anyone else who needs one is reading, please do not keep the extenders. Each plane has a limited number and the FAA no longer allows people to use their own (I do have my own - two of them in fact). So if the flight attendant is strict about that (and I had one last August who was) there may not be enough for the people who need them on the next flight. I almost ran into this in October, a guy in first class got one extender, the person in front of me got the other (after the flight attendant was done with the safety demo) and as far as I can tell that was all that was available. Luckily I had a long shirt on and the flight attendant didn't see I had my own extender already on. If she had and wanted to enforce the new FAA rule I could have been kicked off the plane.

ohiocat 02-17-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin (Post 16263791)
was this your first time doing low carb?

Yep, first timer. And I have seen multiple people post about how it is not as easy the second, third time around. I've always wondered whether that is due to some metabolic advantage that we have the first time around, or if it is because we learn about more things to eat as we go along. In the first weeks, all I ate was meat, eggs and veggies with an ounce or two of cheese. As the months have gone by, I've learned to cook new things and suspect that if I stopped and re-started, my early weeks wouldn't be as "clean" as they were the first time around.

iakaren 02-17-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvin (Post 16261043)
For a variety of reasons, I have decided that I'd like to lose a significant amount of fat weight in 30 days. Essentially, I'm looking to lose inches and maintain muscle mass, so I guess a "signficant number of inches" though it's easier, I think, to measure progress over that time period by looking at pounds. I'm thinking about 8.5% of my body weight, or about 30 lbs in 30 days.

What's the best way (low carb, of course) of doing that? Is it going strictly meat and eggs? Is it Atkins '72? At the end of the 30 days, I would be looking to switch over to more traditional Induction, moving up the OWL ladder etc., so I'm not looking to do this long-term. 30 days essentially.

I realize whether I do meet that goal or not is subject to a lot of variables, but what would you folks recommend based on your own experiences?

Specifically I'm looking for advice on food limitations (perhaps more strict than DANDR) and what to avoid, best foods to eat, whether to limit fats at all, Fat/Protein/Carb ratios, etc. Also, what types of exercise would be best -- I realize that starting an exercise program will potentially cause one to "gain" due to muscle gain, retaining water in muscles, etc., but again, since the "real" objective is inches, I'm less concerned about those pounds.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Pitfalls?

HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Long time, no see your posts!!!!!

MaryMary 02-17-2013 07:06 PM

Mistizoom,
That happened to me, but I pretended the belt was fastened. I didn't want to be in the predicament again. Luckily, I don't need one anymore, either. But good point about leaving them on the plane. With the obesity rate at record highs, they should have more than 2 per flight. Whatever happened to reasonable accomodations for the handicapped?

Marvin 02-17-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iakaren (Post 16264748)
HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Long time, no see your posts!!!!!


:hiya::hiya:Hi Karen, message coming your way. . .

mojopage 02-18-2013 07:47 AM

Hop over to the HCG board......


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