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Old 02-11-2013, 07:20 AM   #31
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Wow! Thank you all so much for the encouragement and excellent thoughtful analyses of the situation. I am thinking through the advice and I feel there is hope now. I will keep everyone posted on how things progress here.

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:03 AM   #32
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Talk about something other than the way you eat or what you weigh.
Do you thing, let her do hers.
Answer questions if she asks, but don't preach. Just don't mention what you are eating. Don't bug her to go to the gym. No one likes to be nagged and it is not an effective motivator.

Your results will speak for themselves. There may come a point where she asks you about it...until then, just talk about something else.

I totally agree with this because this is what I did with a good friend. I just did my thing and didn't bring up anything about weight. I never liked when friends who were losing weight would flaunt it in my face, like showing me their big loose pants (that always annoyed me)....and I'm not saying you are doing that stuff at all, I'm just saying I like the idea of keep being friends without the weightloss topic.


My friend and I...We used to eat a box of munchkins together, she realized I was changing when I said ----no thank you, not today.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:15 AM   #33
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Take a bag of pork rinds to the mexican place with you. Pork rinds dipped in a mixture of salsa and sour cream is VERY good. In fact, I bring that to work with me many days for my lunch/afternoon snack.

Then as others have suggested, order fajitas with no onions or tortillas, enchiladas without the tortilla, or my favorite, a chimichanga without the tortilla. The majority of mexican restaurants are local family owned (at least the really good ones) and they will make it however you ask for it. There may be some issues with translation, but if you entree shows up wrapped in a tortilla, just unwrap it and set the tortilla aside.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:24 AM   #34
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When you go out to eat with your friend, don't suffer through small and unappetizing portions - REVEL in your newfound freedom. 3 eggs and 8 strips of bacon, with a side of butter! No more low fat soy coffee for you: Heavy whipping cream is back on the menu. A shell egg omelette with cheddar, bacon, ham, sausage, peppers, onions, mushrooms? That's health food!

If you keep your carbs low enough for long enough, you'll put up results soon enough.

Enjoy the lifestyle - Lose weight - Never show an ounce of pain.

.
But, losing weight is hard and getting to goal is hard and maintenance is hard. Why pretend otherwise and put on this charade with a friend that it's all so easy and eat tons of greasy foods on purpose just to show off to them?

I don't discuss my diet with most people, unless they specifically ask me something. When they say I am so thin and must have a great metabolism, I correct them that it's not my metabolism but hard work - cooking most of my own meals, almost no processed foods, calorie and carb counting, and being active. I do talk about diets and weight with certain friends that are very health conscious.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #35
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I agree with everyone above. Sometimes when one friend is making the effort to change their life and the other is not -- there's no longer a lot in common. I've lost a friend or two over the years because of this, (not dealing with lc actually), and it's always sad. Sometimes people change. And sometimes friends fade away. Hopefully you'll be able to keep the friendship and find common ground. Best to you!!! xo
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:19 AM   #36
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But, losing weight is hard and getting to goal is hard and maintenance is hard. Why pretend otherwise and put on this charade with a friend that it's all so easy and eat tons of greasy foods on purpose just to show off to them?

I don't discuss my diet with most people, unless they specifically ask me something. When they say I am so thin and must have a great metabolism, I correct them that it's not my metabolism but hard work - cooking most of my own meals, almost no processed foods, calorie and carb counting, and being active. I do talk about diets and weight with certain friends that are very health conscious.
I can't speak for others but it's no pretense for me. I enjoy food and always will -- especially mexican food. (I don't consider guacamole and beef fajitas to be a particularly greasy choice, but I suppose that's a matter of personal choice.) And frankly, this has been the easiest weight loss I've ever had and I've been trying for many, many moons.

I guess it's a matter of temperament, but for me it's really important to see this as an enjoyable way to eat and go out to dinner with friends and family without feeling as if I'm deprived and "working" all the time. That's why I was unable to keep weight off in the past --- the unending dissatisfaction and hunger. I don't know if I'll break this time and gain back all my weight -- maybe I will. But so far, I haven't felt as if this is very hard at all compared to other regimes I've tried.

And it's also important to me that my friends and family don't feel that I'm being self-righteous and superior about the way I eat so I make sure they understand that I'm quite satisfied and happy with my choices. Obviously, your mileage may vary. Everybody's got their own way of relating to other people.

BTW: I also cook at least 95% of my own food. But then I like cooking. Going out is a special occasion, although I do it for work sometimes as well. But that's been true for me for many years. I haven't eaten processed food since the 90s.

.

Last edited by Rhubarb; 02-11-2013 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:13 PM   #37
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I can't speak for others but it's no pretense for me. I enjoy food and always will -- especially mexican food. (I don't consider guacamole and beef fajitas to be a particularly greasy choice, but I suppose that's a matter of personal choice.) And frankly, this has been the easiest weight loss I've ever had and I've been trying for many, many moons.

I guess it's a matter of temperament, but for me it's really important to see this as an enjoyable way to eat and go out to dinner with friends and family without feeling as if I'm deprived and "working" all the time. That's why I was unable to keep weight off in the past --- the unending dissatisfaction and hunger. I don't know if I'll break this time and gain back all my weight -- maybe I will. But so far, I haven't felt as if this is very hard at all compared to other regimes I've tried.

And it's also important to me that my friends and family don't feel that I'm being self-righteous and superior about the way I eat so I make sure they understand that I'm quite satisfied and happy with my choices. Obviously, your mileage may vary. Everybody's got their own way of relating to other people.

BTW: I also cook at least 95% of my own food. But then I like cooking. Going out is a special occasion, although I do it for work sometimes as well. But that's been true for me for many years. I haven't eaten processed food since the 90s.

.
I enjoy my food as well but I don't get piling all this food on your plate and making sure that your friend thinks it's easy. I wasn't referring to guac or beef fajitas. The poster that I quoted told her to get 8 slices of bacon with eggs and extra butter, or eggs with sausage, bacon, and ham, and cheese, and to revel in big portions.

Just looking at the main lobby you see how hard this diet is for people and how they struggle, regain, go off plan, don't reach goal, and re-start.

I;ve been in maintence for years and it can still be hard. I don't sit at the table and complain or whine about it because I much rather prefer to be thin and have to be selective in my food choices than fat and get to eat whatever just looks good. But, I also wouldn't tell lie and tell one of my friends that there's been no pain involved in this process.

This is what I was quoting so you can understand my reply:

When you go out to eat with your friend, don't suffer through small and unappetizing portions - REVEL in your newfound freedom. 3 eggs and 8 strips of bacon, with a side of butter! No more low fat soy coffee for you: Heavy whipping cream is back on the menu. A shell egg omelette with cheddar, bacon, ham, sausage, peppers, onions, mushrooms? That's health food!

If you keep your carbs low enough for long enough, you'll put up results soon enough.

Enjoy the lifestyle - Lose weight - Never show an ounce of pain.

Last edited by nolcjunk; 02-11-2013 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:53 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by nolcjunk View Post
But, losing weight is hard and getting to goal is hard and maintenance is hard. Why pretend otherwise and put on this charade with a friend that it's all so easy and eat tons of greasy foods on purpose just to show off to them?
Who's showing off? That's what I eat. I've lost more than 60 pounds since September eating like that every day. The point isn't to show off, it is to eat in a manner that is not an act of deprivation. To be a living example that weight loss doesn't have to be tasteless food and starvation.

I've got a ways to go yet, but losing weight hasn't been hard at all - committing to a lifestyle change is hard. Once I did that, the rest started following pretty quickly.

At any rate, I was only offering up what has worked for me in the same situation as the original poster. Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #39
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I 100% agree with you on this Z. It really is not hard to lose weight with this woe, you have to want to make the choice to make the lifestyle change. If your friend is not ready to make that commitment yet you can't make her and since she feels like she's not part of your plans anymore she is not going to show any type of support. Sad but true and you may have to take a break from her for a while to work on getting your health back. If you guys are real friends you will get over this roadbump.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:09 PM   #40
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UPDATE: Went to a TexMex place last night. I did not say a word about LC or anything until I ordered fajitas. I brought my own low carb tortillas to wrap them in. She asked me why I didn't use the flour ones and I said "these are low carb" Her response was "how noble of you"

Huh?
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:25 PM   #41
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Let it go if you value the friendship. You are being way too sensitive. You are flying high right now - doing great. Be the bigger person.

She probably feels bad about herself because she is not doing great like you are. If she feels bad about herself she is not going to feel like cheering you on. Your success makes her feel even worse. Can't you see that? Haven't you ever been in her place & felt bad because someone else was losing weight and looking good but you weren't?

Did you have a good time?
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:35 PM   #42
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Oh and ask for some bell pepper or celery instead of chips. Surprisingly good with fresh salsa when you just need that "chips and salsa" feel
And instead of a margarita, get a tequila and soda with lime. It's not as sweet, but it's still very nice.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #43
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Let it go if you value the friendship. You are being way too sensitive. You are flying high right now - doing great. Be the bigger person.

She probably feels bad about herself because she is not doing great like you are. If she feels bad about herself she is not going to feel like cheering you on. Your success makes her feel even worse. Can't you see that? Haven't you ever been in her place & felt bad because someone else was losing weight and looking good but you weren't?

Did you have a good time?
No DiamondDeb... I have to disagree with you. There is a difference between feeling bad about one's self and directly making snide remarks. It is NOT my job to coddle her or make her feel better about herself. She has no trouble making digs at me.... yet I am supposed to be the "bigger person"? And no, I have never ever attacked, demeaned, insulted, used sarcasm on another person who was losing weight.... I have always been happy for them and encouraging because I know how hard it is. Insecure people need to attack others to "level the playing field" and I find that to be a damn shame. Her insecurities are abundant... not just about her weight.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:49 PM   #44
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And instead of a margarita, get a tequila and soda with lime. It's not as sweet, but it's still very nice.
I like that idea... do you mean soda as in soda pop or soda water?
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:55 PM   #45
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Ask yourself this question: Have you or the two of you ever tried to "diet" before? Maybe she thinks this is just another go round and she doesn't want to deal with the diet drama. I personally dont think that there is a need for this to come between you, but if your looking for kudos from her your probably not going to get it from her till you start showing some results. Even then, I'd caution you to take her response with a grain of salt because its human nature to be envious of our friends successes and she does seem prone to snarky comentary. Good luck on your journey to better health!
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:59 PM   #46
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I like that idea... do you mean soda as in soda pop or soda water?
Soda water, I would assume. It is quite yummy.

If you use artificial sweeteners, the MIO drops or the Sweetleaf liquid stevia are easy to drop in your purse and you can add a little squirt if you want to sweeten it up.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #47
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... I brought my own low carb tortillas to wrap them in. She asked me why I didn't use the flour ones and I said "these are low carb" Her response was "how noble of you"
I thik she might not really understand what low carb is.
I think we express our enthusiasm about it, but it is very difficult to explain the concept without giving a class. I know it is for me, and my friends don't understand it. That's because I recommend they listen to a one hour presentation of Taubes if they are interested, and none have bothered.
Do you think her response might have been different if you had replied, "Because flour raises my blood sugar and causes me to produce excess insulin and insulin causes fat storage."?
Lunch with a friend shouldn't require a lot of thought though.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #48
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I thik she might not really understand what low carb is.
I think we express our enthusiasm about it, but it is very difficult to explain the concept without giving a class. I know it is for me, and my friends don't understand it. That's because I recommend they listen to a one hour presentation of Taubes if they are interested, and none have bothered.
Do you think her response might have been different if you had replied, "Because flour raises my blood sugar and causes me to produce excess insulin and insulin causes fat storage."?
Lunch with a friend shouldn't require a lot of thought though.
She knows what low carb is because she tried it years ago...to no avail. You are right, I should not have to feel on the defensive when we eat out together. Too much work!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:16 PM   #49
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Ask yourself this question: Have you or the two of you ever tried to "diet" before? Maybe she thinks this is just another go round and she doesn't want to deal with the diet drama. I personally dont think that there is a need for this to come between you, but if your looking for kudos from her your probably not going to get it from her till you start showing some results. Even then, I'd caution you to take her response with a grain of salt because its human nature to be envious of our friends successes and she does seem prone to snarky comentary. Good luck on your journey to better health!
I don't even care if she never compliments me, I just don't need to attitude. Tis all.

Thanks.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:32 PM   #50
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No DiamondDeb... I have to disagree with you. There is a difference between feeling bad about one's self and directly making snide remarks. It is NOT my job to coddle her or make her feel better about herself. She has no trouble making digs at me.... yet I am supposed to be the "bigger person"? And no, I have never ever attacked, demeaned, insulted, used sarcasm on another person who was losing weight.... I have always been happy for them and encouraging because I know how hard it is. Insecure people need to attack others to "level the playing field" and I find that to be a damn shame. Her insecurities are abundant... not just about her weight.
I did not ask if you ever verbally attacked attacked someone who was losing weight. I meant did you ever feel bad abut yourself - inside - when around someone who had been losing weight when you were not? Most of us have had that experience. If, as you suggest, she is a very insecure person, that may be why she is behaving the way she is. You can walk away or you can attempt to save the relationship.

I am going on the assumption that you value the friendship & want to save it. If you can think of no reason for her to say things like this I suggest that you talk to her about it & find out what is going on with her and how the two of you can make things better between you. Wording is everything - let her know how you feel, not how she makes you feel.

Doing this can be difficult and uncomfortaable but it can also be rewarding for both involved. Most people choose to walk away from friendships at this point. It is definitely easier than working at saving them.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #51
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I like your attitude SadieJack! Some people would have nothing to say if they were not complaining, snarky or fishing! If your friend has always fell into this catagory you gotta let it be known that from now on she can either shut up or eat by herself! If this is a new kind of behaviour she's displaying you have to make the choice whether you want to invest the time to figure it out or move on.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:05 PM   #52
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I don't talk about my way of eating or weightloss with anyone except one friend (saying something every few months) and with my sister (regularly by phone). I have let friends whom I've stayed with know that I'm eating lowcarb, so they don't go to the trouble of making something I won't eat, but I let them know that they don't need to eat any differently around me and that I'm happy to cook for myself or shop for food I can eat. I haven't had trouble finding something lowcarb that I can eat on the menu of any restaurant I've visited with friends.

If someone asked me how I had lost weight and seemed sincerely interested, I'd talk about it--but if it's just a passing comment, I'd say that I'm avoiding sugar and starches or "not eating gluten" (both true).

I think that food choices are very personal and that people who are heavy often feel a lot of pain about that and/or frustration about trying to lose weight--all those things are true for me. So I think it's better to find common ground to talk about--work, kids, movies, weather, books, whatever--and stay away from those topics that might evoke painful feelings in a friend. So long as this board exists, I have plenty of people to share experiences with, without bringing my friends or co-workers into it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #53
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UPDATE: Went to a TexMex place last night. I did not say a word about LC or anything until I ordered fajitas. I brought my own low carb tortillas to wrap them in. She asked me why I didn't use the flour ones and I said "these are low carb" Her response was "how noble of you"

Huh?
Did you call her on it??I would have...I would have asked her what that was suppose to mean?
Seems rather crazy to me that she would even care what tortias you use.For what its worth,doesnt seem to me you are flaunting your woe at all,more so,she's the one doing the digging.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:35 AM   #54
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I would say if you still want to be friends with her the subject of weight and exercise needs to be off the table at this point. I am sure that will be hard for you, as you want to share your happiness over your weight loss, WOE, etc. However is she does not want to hear it you shouldn't really push it on her. Try to find other things to talk about, and lead by example.
I had to come in and comment about this because I can see it from your friend's point of view.

I have a very good friend I've known for over 15 years and she has really changed (for the better really).. but she has turned into a HUGE CrossFit guru.. she even opened her own CrossFit gym.

We have always been so cohesive in our lifestyle in the past but now all she wants to do is talk about fitness. (I actually turned her on to the Paleo lifestyle which led her to CrossFit)..

I tried to join her.. and support her and attend a few of the boxes.. I did it for about two weeks and then hurt my back with one of the kettle bell swings.. Now I am absolutely not interested at all!

She just won't let up. It's all she wants to talk about. It's frustrating.

So yes.. my advise is to talk about other interests. More than likely your friend will follow your example on down the line when she is ready and does not feel threatened.

I would keep food, eating out and discussions about food "off the table" for now.

Good friends are so hard to find so I wish you great luck
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:52 AM   #55
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I had to come in and comment about this because I can see it from your friend's point of view.

I have a very good friend I've known for over 15 years and she has really changed (for the better really).. but she has turned into a HUGE CrossFit guru.. she even opened her own CrossFit gym.

We have always been so cohesive in our lifestyle in the past but now all she wants to do is talk about fitness. (I actually turned her on to the Paleo lifestyle which led her to CrossFit)..

I tried to join her.. and support her and attend a few of the boxes.. I did it for about two weeks and then hurt my back with one of the kettle bell swings.. Now I am absolutely not interested at all!

She just won't let up. It's all she wants to talk about. It's frustrating.

So yes.. my advise is to talk about other interests. More than likely your friend will follow your example on down the line when she is ready and does not feel threatened.

I would keep food, eating out and discussions about food "off the table" for now.

Good friends are so hard to find so I wish you great luck
Great perspective from the other side of the fence! Of course, the exact situation is a bit different since our LC'r didn't initiate the tense dialog, but be that as it may, the dynamics of the interaction are essentially the same.

A perfect rejoinder to this:

"Her response was "how noble of you"

...is to provide a conversational non sequitur:

"OMG! Did you hear about Sally and Jim taking separate vacations?!?"

...and allow the conversation to turn to mutual interests.

The reason I think the situation is essentially the same is that your friend is already familiar with LC so the only reason to ask the question she asked was to head you off at the pass - to keep you from bringing up LC. It was a defensive question that gave her control of the immediate conversation and gave her the opportunity to say something snarky which is always much easier to do as a response. I bet you had no desire to talk about LC afterwards.

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Old 02-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #56
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I had to come in and comment about this because I can see it from your friend's point of view [...] She just won't let up. It's all she wants to talk about. It's frustrating.
I'm going through something similar. I have a friend who's started selling untested herbal supplements. She talks constantly about how interested she is in nutrition, but she's never read a single book on the subject (she hates reading!) If you try to nudge her in the direction of the actual research, she'll just tie it back into her weird theories without listening - eating sugar candy by the handful the whole time!

I like her for other reasons, but I am never, ever going to believe her nutritional nuttiness - and I'm certainly not buying her overpriced pills. So I do pretty much what the OP says her friend would do - I say something non-committal and change the subject.

Sure, it would be great if my friend's interest in nutrition led to eating healthier - but unless she's willing to question her weird beliefs, she's not going to change. So I just enjoy other things about her, try not to let the quack nutrition stuff get in the way of our friendship - and remind myself not to turn into that person who's so stuck on the subject of what people eat that they annoy everyone.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
A perfect rejoinder to this:

"Her response was "how noble of you"

...is to provide a conversational non sequitur:

"OMG! Did you hear about Sally and Jim taking separate vacations?!?"

...and allow the conversation to turn to mutual interests.

The reason I think the situation is essentially the same is that your friend is already familiar with LC so the only reason to ask the question she asked was to head you off at the pass - to keep you from bringing up LC. It was a defensive question that gave her control of the immediate conversation and gave her the opportunity to say something snarky which is always much easier to do as a response. I bet you had no desire to talk about LC afterwards.

Excellent insights!
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #58
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Good luck with your friend. Sometimes we just grow apart and develop different interests.

I know you said you weren't ready to deal with Mexican restaurants while low carbing right now, but when you are there are options. I've seen some good suggestions here and have another I got from the amazing Cleochatra. Ask for nachos on a bed of lettuce rather than tortilla chips. I've gotten some strange looks, but once I tell the waiter I'm trying to control how many tortilla chips I eat they've always come through. It's easy to skip them entirely that way and still enjoy meat, cheese, lettuce, tomato, sour cream and guacamole.

If you want the crunch, you could always bring some low carb crackers or pork rinds.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:18 PM   #59
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Pork rind nachos?

I think I'm in love!

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Old 02-14-2013, 02:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieJack View Post
UPDATE: Went to a TexMex place last night. I did not say a word about LC or anything until I ordered fajitas. I brought my own low carb tortillas to wrap them in. She asked me why I didn't use the flour ones and I said "these are low carb" Her response was "how noble of you"

Huh?
That is a mean thing for her to say. You should let her know how it made you feel, stand up for yourself and show her your boundaries. It's just not right for her to treat you that way, even if she does have her own personal challenges. Don't talk to her unless she's willing to be nice and more supportive, and tell her that you won't go to dinner with her unless she is more respectful. You deserve respect, even if you're on the cabbage diet! You deserve respect because you are a decent person who is nice to her (I'm guessing), no matter her choices, and she should treat you the same. This is only going to continue or get worse if you do nothing, and LC is hard enough. Honestly, all of my friends have been very supportive of me in this, even if they disagree. We have had civilized discussions about it and most of them are very encouraging. You deserve the same.

People come into and out of our lives throughout our lifetimes, and sometimes we have control over this in order to make positive changes and get rid of the negativity in our lives. I'm not saying that you need to never see this friend again, but you can set boundaries.
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