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Old 01-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #1
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First doctor appt since weight loss!

I have not seen my doctor since I started losing weight, so I was almost looking forward to this physical. I have lost 35 lbs since she last saw me and my BP has also improved to where it has been averaging 115/68. (of course as soon as I hit the doctor's office it always jumps up! Frustrating, but she knows I keep good records and trusts my recordings)

What I find frustrating is that it seems like every time I go in the rules of medicine or diagnostics changes in some way. For example, I was always told as a woman my age to take calcium supplements. Well, apparently now, supplements have been found to cause calcium build up in the arteries and may cause heart issues, so you should get more natural calcium. Now I realize that it's always best to get all your nutrients naturally, but it's disheartening to find out now that these supplements could be bad for you.

Another new test that is being done now is for Cholesterol - the LDL-P, which tests for not only total levels but the amount of particles and particle size. My overall Cholesterol has been great and has improved! Yay

Total 162
HDL 52
LDL 87
Tryglicerides 115 (this is the one I always had trouble with in the past)

These numbers are all considered good, however my LDL-P was at 1399 which is considered borderline High. And something else new a C-Reactive Protein was also considered high risk.

What bothered me was that she suggested starting on a statin even though most of my numbers were all great. Luckily she really listens to what I want and how I want to treat my body. (and don't get me wrong, I really like my doctor. She is great at working with you) I told her that my body is still adapting to the weight loss and I want to give it some time to catch up. Hopefully I did the right thing.

Has anyone else had this LDL-P test? And maybe you understand it a bit better than I do?

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded rant! I just get frustrated when I think I'm doing so well, and then all this other stuff is thrown at me.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:36 PM   #2
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Don't do statins. Google 'jimmy moore Dr. Thomas Dayspring Cholesterol Testing: What Matters Most?' for a good podcast on cholesterol. As I recall, this podcast has great information on why you don't need a statin except in a very rare set of circumstances.

Google 'jimmy moore statins bowden 632' for an eye opener on statins.

Mary Vernon did a podcast with him about dealing with doctors if you are LC. You can find that with 'What Questions Should I Ask My (Non-Low-Carb Friendly) Doc?’ Dr. Mary Vernon'.

And congrats on the loss
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Don't do statins. Google 'jimmy moore Dr. Thomas Dayspring Cholesterol Testing: What Matters Most?' for a good podcast on cholesterol. As I recall, this podcast has great information on why you don't need a statin except in a very rare set of circumstances.
Thanks! I found the podcast and am downloading it now so I can listen to it tomorrow!
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #4
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Congrats on your success!

Don't do statins. You don't need them & if your doctor insists then get another doctor.

Definitely check out the info reddarin suggests.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:57 PM   #5
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Congrats on your weight loss! And your appt! I'm kinda embarrased to say I have No clue what my cholestrol is Lol! I do know my BP is always normal.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:27 PM   #6
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It is a great podcast!

Dr. Vernon had some really good advice about the thorny issue of your doctor insisting on statins.

She said to try to avoid the Rx by telling the doctor that you'd like to attempt to address the problem with lifestyle changes. If that doesn't work then take the Rx but never fill it.

Dr. Vernon said that many doctors insist on it because they have a checklist that they *must* follow or they get docked on their bonus at the end of the year or even their job is jeopardized. Accepting the Rx if the doc is adamant about it, but not filling it, works for both of you.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astribling View Post
I have not seen my doctor since I started losing weight, so I was almost looking forward to this physical. I have lost 35 lbs since she last saw me and my BP has also improved to where it has been averaging 115/68. (of course as soon as I hit the doctor's office it always jumps up! Frustrating, but she knows I keep good records and trusts my recordings)

What I find frustrating is that it seems like every time I go in the rules of medicine or diagnostics changes in some way. For example, I was always told as a woman my age to take calcium supplements. Well, apparently now, supplements have been found to cause calcium build up in the arteries and may cause heart issues, so you should get more natural calcium. Now I realize that it's always best to get all your nutrients naturally, but it's disheartening to find out now that these supplements could be bad for you.

Another new test that is being done now is for Cholesterol - the LDL-P, which tests for not only total levels but the amount of particles and particle size. My overall Cholesterol has been great and has improved! Yay

Total 162
HDL 52
LDL 87
Tryglicerides 115 (this is the one I always had trouble with in the past)

These numbers are all considered good, however my LDL-P was at 1399 which is considered borderline High. And something else new a C-Reactive Protein was also considered high risk.
C-reactive protein test measures overall inflammation levels in the body. It's supposed to measure another risk indicator for heart disease or stroke. I try to get a relatively high ratio of omega 3 fatty acids (compared to omega 6 fatty acids) by eating fish often and taking a fish oil supplement, to reduce inflammation. You might consider taking fish oil capsules, krill capsules, or a teaspoon of lemon-flavored cod liver oil daily if your c-reactive protein results were high.

I know that it can be frustrating to feel one is having to measure up against new standards all the time, but it sounds like your doctor is at least keeping up-to-date with testing standards, by measuring LDL-P and C-reactive protein. My health care plan just sticks with LDL, HDL, and triglicerides, even though that's rather out of date.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
C-reactive protein test measures overall inflammation levels in the body. It's supposed to measure another risk indicator for heart disease or stroke. I try to get a relatively high ratio of omega 3 fatty acids (compared to omega 6 fatty acids) by eating fish often and taking a fish oil supplement, to reduce inflammation. You might consider taking fish oil capsules, krill capsules, or a teaspoon of lemon-flavored cod liver oil daily if your c-reactive protein results were high.

I know that it can be frustrating to feel one is having to measure up against new standards all the time, but it sounds like your doctor is at least keeping up-to-date with testing standards, by measuring LDL-P and C-reactive protein. My health care plan just sticks with LDL, HDL, and triglicerides, even though that's rather out of date.
Thanks for this info! I did some googling after I read this and found a lot of great info. There is also a lot of mention that glucosamine also reduces CRP. We have both of these items in the house, I just need to be better about actually taking them!! If I start now, maybe when I get blood work redone in October I will see an improvement.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Don't do statins. Google 'jimmy moore Dr. Thomas Dayspring Cholesterol Testing: What Matters Most?' for a good podcast on cholesterol. As I recall, this podcast has great information on why you don't need a statin except in a very rare set of circumstances.

Google 'jimmy moore statins bowden 632' for an eye opener on statins.

Mary Vernon did a podcast with him about dealing with doctors if you are LC. You can find that with 'What Questions Should I Ask My (Non-Low-Carb Friendly) Doc?’ Dr. Mary Vernon'.

And congrats on the loss


I just finished listening to the Dr. Mary Vernon podcast on Jimmy Moore.
It was eyeopening!
Very good information for those of us wondering how to deal with doctors who are not educated in the health benefits of a low carb diet.
Great advice even if you do not have cholesterol issues.....or a doc. pushing statins.
Thank you!
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:48 AM   #10
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Ideally, LDL-P should be under 1000, but it seems like a lot of low carbers are seeing values over that amount. Whether or not that's really an issue remains to be seen--we tend to have more of the desireable large fluffy LDL particles instead of the small dense particles that are a problem. However, some experts like Peter Attia and Thomas Dayspring say that size doesn't really matter that much, but LDL-P is the state of the art measure. Did they do a particle size test along with your LDL-P?

Your LDL-P is not terribly high, just slightly elevated. Mine was around 1500, more concerning, but it was my first one, and I suspect it may have been much higher and it's coming down now. So a repeat LDL-P will tell you more than you currently know.

Your triglycerides could definitely be lower. Carbs are what increase triglycerides, so if you are climbing the OWL ladder you may want to keep that in mind. Fish oil and other sources of Omega 3's will increase your HDL and improve the ratios, but getting triglycerides down is important. Mine are 38 now, whoo hoo! I eat tons of saturated fats and keep my carbs low.

My CRP is elevated, too. It's supposed to be between 1 and 3, and mine was 3.9. CRP is a marker of inflammation. One reason that your doctor is pushing statins (besides the ridiculous standards that say almost every adult needs statins) is that there is a mild anti-inflammatory effect from statins. BUT, a good anti-inflammatory diet is much more effective.

So what's an anti-inflammatory diet? First, try to get rid of the polyunsaturated fatty acids in your diet. That's canola oil, seed oils, nut oils. They're all processed and oxidized so that when you ingest them they cause inflammation. Try to replace them with olive oil (don't cook with olive oil, except briefly sauteeing), coconut oil, butter and ghee from GRASSFED animals, bacon fat, pan drippings from beef (grassfed, if possible). And increasing fish oil and fish will help, too.

There are other things in the diet that may be inflammatory (eggs may be, nightshades, etc.) as well, but this is a good start. Again, recheck the CRP in 3 to 6 months to see how it's progressing.

I also decided to add CoEnzymeQ10 to my daily regimen even though I'm not on statins (anyone who is on a statin MUST take CoQ10!!!!). I read "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by Bowden and Sinatra, and they recommend it for it's anti-inflammatory properties.

Using some of my carb allowance for berries gives me more anti-oxidants which are anti-inflammatory in my diet. Lately I add a few freeze dried raspberries from Trader Joe's in my morning "cereal" (made of flax, chia, and almond meal). And chocolate is a good anti-inflammatory too, so enjoy that coconut oil bark!

BTW, that's a very good doctor who knows about the more sophisticated tests like LDL-P and CRP. He may be under pressure from your insurer or his quality assurance program to prescribe the statins, but hopefully he will treat you as a person and not as a number.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #11
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Great work!! Just wanted to say that I questioned the CRP test with my p.c.p. and his take is that it is worse than useless.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #12
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My CR-P is elevated, too, at 4.8 It's kind of freaking me out. I'm having it re-tested in April.

Since my last blood tests, I've been taking Fish Oil capsules and have also paid more attention to my Omega 3 to 6 ratios. Hopefully this will improve that #. However, I've also read that certain auto-immune conditions can affect the CR-P levels. I have had 2 auto-immune conditions (that I know of) and several others run in my family. I'm considering having a panel run through Cyrex labs to see if I have markers for other common auto-immune conditions. That may be something you also want to look into.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #13
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Thank you Janknitz! That is a log of great info! And it's good to hear from someone who has had the same issue and what they are doing. I have also been reading about CoQ10, and picked up some of that as well as some good quality fish oil, and will start on those. I'm hoping that since these numbers are from blood work that was actually taken a couple of months ago (when I was just in the middle of my weight loss) it will improve as I lose a little more weight and continue to eat healthy low carb foods.

I still have trouble with the thought that eating saturated fats is actually good for you, but I'm sure that's from years of that info being drummed into your head. I love having this board and all the people here to talk about all these things.

Thanks!!
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:15 PM   #14
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I read on mercola's site that unless your triglycerides are well over 1000, there is no reason to take statins. I think most doctors are overly concerned about our cholesterol levels when they should be more concerned with our insulin levels!
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:35 PM   #15
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Because I have arthritis my rheumatologist regularly tests me for CRP. Do you have any auto-immune issues going on that could be causing you inflammation?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janknitz View Post
Ideally, LDL-P should be under 1000, but it seems like a lot of low carbers are seeing values over that amount. Whether or not that's really an issue remains to be seen--we tend to have more of the desireable large fluffy LDL particles instead of the small dense particles that are a problem. However, some experts like Peter Attia and Thomas Dayspring say that size doesn't really matter that much, but LDL-P is the state of the art measure. Did they do a particle size test along with your LDL-P?

Your LDL-P is not terribly high, just slightly elevated. Mine was around 1500, more concerning, but it was my first one, and I suspect it may have been much higher and it's coming down now. So a repeat LDL-P will tell you more than you currently know.

Your triglycerides could definitely be lower. Carbs are what increase triglycerides, so if you are climbing the OWL ladder you may want to keep that in mind. Fish oil and other sources of Omega 3's will increase your HDL and improve the ratios, but getting triglycerides down is important. Mine are 38 now, whoo hoo! I eat tons of saturated fats and keep my carbs low.

My CRP is elevated, too. It's supposed to be between 1 and 3, and mine was 3.9. CRP is a marker of inflammation. One reason that your doctor is pushing statins (besides the ridiculous standards that say almost every adult needs statins) is that there is a mild anti-inflammatory effect from statins. BUT, a good anti-inflammatory diet is much more effective.

So what's an anti-inflammatory diet? First, try to get rid of the polyunsaturated fatty acids in your diet. That's canola oil, seed oils, nut oils. They're all processed and oxidized so that when you ingest them they cause inflammation. Try to replace them with olive oil (don't cook with olive oil, except briefly sauteeing), coconut oil, butter and ghee from GRASSFED animals, bacon fat, pan drippings from beef (grassfed, if possible). And increasing fish oil and fish will help, too.

There are other things in the diet that may be inflammatory (eggs may be, nightshades, etc.) as well, but this is a good start. Again, recheck the CRP in 3 to 6 months to see how it's progressing.

I also decided to add CoEnzymeQ10 to my daily regimen even though I'm not on statins (anyone who is on a statin MUST take CoQ10!!!!). I read "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by Bowden and Sinatra, and they recommend it for it's anti-inflammatory properties.

Using some of my carb allowance for berries gives me more anti-oxidants which are anti-inflammatory in my diet. Lately I add a few freeze dried raspberries from Trader Joe's in my morning "cereal" (made of flax, chia, and almond meal). And chocolate is a good anti-inflammatory too, so enjoy that coconut oil bark!

BTW, that's a very good doctor who knows about the more sophisticated tests like LDL-P and CRP. He may be under pressure from your insurer or his quality assurance program to prescribe the statins, but hopefully he will treat you as a person and not as a number.
Janknitz, can you elaborate on avoiding nut oils? I use walnut oil in salads, macademia nut oil in various ways, and have some other nut oils (e.g., almond oil) on hand. I didn't consider those highly processed and oxidized; nuts have a high level of fats naturally (e.g., macademia nuts can be the basis for a fat fast), unlike, say, soybeans or cottonseeds or corn.

On macademia nut oil, Mark's Daily Apple says, "I liken the concept of macademia nut oil to that of olive oil; they are inherently, obviously, blatently fatty foods, and extracting fat isn't a stretch, nor does is require industrial solvents and complex processes ... macademia oil owes its stability mostly to its extremely low omega-6 fatty acid content (the lowest of all traditional cooking oils, next to coconut oil), high monosaturated fatty acid content (it runs over 80% MUFA...) and a decent portion of saturated fat (around 18%)"

The Real Simple website says "Nut oils are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids (especially walnut oil)" and an online article by Dr. Linda Posch begins, "Walnuts and their oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids."

I'm not trying to argue, just get clarification, since I thought I was being very picky in my use of oils/fats, and had been treating some nut oils as "good" fats in my diet.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Janknitz, can you elaborate on avoiding nut oils? I use walnut oil in salads, macademia nut oil in various ways, and have some other nut oils (e.g., almond oil) on hand. I didn't consider those highly processed and oxidized; nuts have a high level of fats naturally (e.g., macademia nuts can be the basis for a fat fast), unlike, say, soybeans or cottonseeds or corn.

On macademia nut oil, Mark's Daily Apple says, "I liken the concept of macademia nut oil to that of olive oil; they are inherently, obviously, blatently fatty foods, and extracting fat isn't a stretch, nor does is require industrial solvents and complex processes ... macademia oil owes its stability mostly to its extremely low omega-6 fatty acid content (the lowest of all traditional cooking oils, next to coconut oil), high monosaturated fatty acid content (it runs over 80% MUFA...) and a decent portion of saturated fat (around 18%)"

The Real Simple website says "Nut oils are good sources of omega-3 fatty acids (especially walnut oil)" and an online article by Dr. Linda Posch begins, "Walnuts and their oils are excellent sources of omega-3 fatty acids."

I'm not trying to argue, just get clarification, since I thought I was being very picky in my use of oils/fats, and had been treating some nut oils as "good" fats in my diet.
The difference is between the refined and unrefined version of those two oils isn't it? But that is a great question
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by upnort3 View Post
Because I have arthritis my rheumatologist regularly tests me for CRP. Do you have any auto-immune issues going on that could be causing you inflammation?
I have never been officially tested for arthritis, but the last few years I have started showing some signs - although I've just been attributing that to getting older!
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:28 AM   #19
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I have never been officially tested for arthritis, but the last few years I have started showing some signs - although I've just been attributing that to getting older!
If you haven't already given up grains entirely--especially wheat--try doing so for a few weeks and see if your joint/arthritis symptoms improve or disappear. That's true for some but not all people.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:41 PM   #20
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If you haven't already given up grains entirely--especially wheat--try doing so for a few weeks and see if your joint/arthritis symptoms improve or disappear. That's true for some but not all people.
Actually, Yes!! I did give up wheat completely back in June when I started and I have noticed a difference, especially in my hands. My hands used to get very achy just before a storm, and that has gotten a lot better since giving up wheat. My knees still ache, but that is from years of damage from being overweight, etc. I also realized recently that since giving up wheat my night sweats from menopause are almost gone, my heartburn is gone (I used to take a daily pill for that). So giving up wheat and other "processed" foods has improved so many things in my life!
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