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Old 01-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by avid View Post
I exercise regularly, about 4 days a week.
I use weights but also ride a bike and run the tredmill for cardio.
I never noticed a connection between workout intensity and weight loss.
None.
So I workout because I like the way it makes me look and feel.
I also workout for mental health reasons.
I can get moody at times.
Going to the gym usually lifts my spirits tremendously.
"Move a muscle, change a mood"
It's a motto that has worked nicely for me.
haha...oh man, if I didnt workout I would be running people off the road and grumpy as all heck. I love that "move a muscle, change a mood"! Going to have to make a mental note of that one
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
I basically got to the point where I got stuck in a bad cycle. Where basically I just had to keep upping my intensity and the amount of exercise I was doing to maintain my weight. I have theories as to why this was happening, but I really don't know why. I decided that I was not going to start exercising 5 - 8 hrs a day, just to maintain my ideal body. It was ridiculous.

So I gave up on all that and put the energy into my diet instead. Now I have a rule of thumb that I follow. Before I exercise I ask myself these questions.

"Am I doing this workout session because I enjoy it?"
"Am I doing this workout session to build a better body so that I can get more enjoyment out of life?"
"Am I doing this workout session because I think I need to still lose weight?"
"Am I doing this workout session to burn off extra calories?"
"Am I doing this workout session because I don't want to get fat?"

I only do the workout if the answer to either of the first two questions is yes, but that is because I used to workout for all the wrong reasons. I don't think yes to the last 3 questions is a good reason to do a workout because for me it backfires. But that is based on my experience, and I realize for everyone else it could be different. I somehow turned into an exercise junkie because of the "fear of flab."
Sounds like the story of my life. I wasn’t even losing anymore weight, I had to bump up the intensity of my workouts and cut down on calories just to maintain my weight. If I slacked even for just 2-3 days on my workouts it was noticeable. This is about the most frustrating thing ever! I began to resent the gym, my body and my efforts. Luckily I checked myself quickly because resenting my body is just foolish. This is the main reason I turned to seriously following LC. After reading endless studies on LC it seemed to make a lot of sense to me. I really like those questions that you ask yourself before working out. I hate the idea that I will always have to be a slave to exercising or the gym. Your questions put things into perspective because after all, what’s the use in working out to feel good if you can't enjoy your life.

Last edited by Robofitz; 01-18-2013 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:47 PM   #33
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I have lost nearly 60 pounds and have barely worked out at all. Everyone said I was fat because I was lazy. Even if they didn't say it, they and society implied it. Well the truth was I was very active but was just eating the wrong stuff. Eating the right stuff and more of it actually and I am losing weight.

I am not starting to work out for myself.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #34
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Good luck!

I've been doing LC for more than 10 years (at goal for most of that time). I've always worked out a lot, but I've never been a competitive athlete. Instead, I ski (skate, classic, downhill), kayak, sail, cycle, backpack, skijor, and go to the gym and lift weights and do cardio when it's raining and I can't have as much fun outside.

Cycling or kayaking in the heat, I take electrolyte pills (for cyclists). These make a huge difference for my energy and endurance. I bonked once doing a long ride in the heat when I didn't bring enough food (the hamburger place was shut! And 50 miles to another shop!) and then I ate 3 candybars when I finally got a place with food.

Otherwise, coconut oil, nut pastes, and cheese keep me going on long endurance things.

I work out not to win, but to keep me fit, strong, and sane. Plus I love being outside! (Yesterday I walked and skied 16 km in the -18ºF cold, after work, trying to see the aurora--and because the snowy forest is really cool in the dark).
Thank you for the good luck wow being at goal for most of 10 years is great!! Congrats for that, I cant wait to be there. Thanks for sharing! Also I love coconut oil (organic extra virgin) for so many reasons...that stuff is amazing, I even use it on my face!!
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:42 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Robofitz View Post
Question for you…are you still following strict low carb or have you started incorporating heavy carb meals before working out?
I've been eating at the induction level of 20g carbs per day and I've only been eating the foods on the induction list (in the 2002 version of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution). My trainer has been checking out Martin Berkhan and the new(ish) movement to do weight training in the fasted state, so I'm sort of a "science project" to him. Since ketosis mimics fasting, we're using my diet and workout regime to see how much power can consistently be brought to a workout while in the fasted state. My trainer thought I would be a good test case for this because he has trained with both of my brothers -- who are bodybuilders and who, you know, have the exact same parents as me -- and because I'm a woman, so I don't have the same hormonal advantages that men have.

Before we started the program, though, we did a bunch of diagnostic, pre-diet testing. He had me get a urine screening and full bloodwork, as well. He also did a preliminary diagnostic workout in which he regularly monitored my heart rate and checked my blood pressure before and after the workout. He had me eat "normally" for an entire month before I started the diet and had me test my fasting blood glucose daily, then test 30, 60, and 120 minutes after each meal during that month. My blood glucose levels were what my doctor calls "aggressively normal" -- no matter what I ate or how much sugar was in a meal, my blood glucose level never ever went above 115 mg/dl, the level never dropped quickly and never went below the mid-70s mg/dl. This blood glucose information is important because my trainer needed to be sure that fasted workouts wouldn't be likely to induce hypoglycemia.

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Originally Posted by Robofitz View Post
I see that you work out with a trainer and body builders so wondering if that has helped with the efficiency of your workouts and with results.
I would say that my trainer has DEFINITELY made my workouts more productive. He's been in Vegas with his girlfriend since the end of December -- so I've had three looooong weeks without him coaching me and I'm really worried that I haven't pushed myself as hard as he would have pushed me. We work split-sets to muscle failure and I often *feel* like my muscles are exhausted but he'll tell me, "I can see your form, chula, and you've got at least two more reps in you." And he's always right! I do some back exercises with 45-pound dumbbells and, for the life of me, I haven't been able to lift them while I've been on my own. So, when I'm "listening to my body," I'm not actually certain that I'm hearing the correct information.

Part of that, I'm sure, is trust -- I've been close friends with my trainer since we were toddlers. And another part of the reason that I think it works well is because he's, honestly, a uniquely gifted motivator. He says little things that are *dumb* when I stop and think about them afterwards -- for example, "You're a strong woman. You're not gonna stop when you start feeling shaky. You're gonna slow down, breathe, and finish strong." That actually makes no freaking sense. And it seems like terrible advice! If I'm "shaky" then maybe I shouldn't be holding a heavy weight over my chest... But when I'm in the gym and I'm feeling vulnerable, absurd little quips like that genuinely help me get my head together. It's ultra manipulative, but it somehow works for me.

I can't honestly say, though, that the heavy workouts have sped my weight loss -- I've lost pounds at a much slower pace than many (if not most) of the people I follow on the Atkins "challenge" threads on this forum. Plus, it doesn't *look* like the muscle work has visibly affected my shape. To be fair, though, I have a LOT of bodyfat so the advantages may become visible when I have achieved a much lower bodyfat percentage. I had a bodyfat scan before I started (using DEXA), but I haven't yet had a follow-up scan. We've scheduled a follow-up scan for the 1-year mark (in May). That's my trainer's way of keeping me "focused" on my full-year commitment. We've discussed having a scan to check my progress, but I can't seem to talk him into it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:54 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by gladee88er View Post
I think Lyle McDonald was one of the first pioneers to stick his neck out and promote the cyclical ketogenic diet specifically for athletes and bodybuilders. These others jumped on the bandwagon after they observed he was on to something. I remember reading his stuff on "cyberpump" website around 1999 -2000??
I think Lyle McDonald deserves a lot of credit for his work in bringing ketogenic dieting into recreational gyms and introducing it to people who weren't part of the bodybuilding subculture. But Dan Duchaine was the man who made ketogenic diets the standard for bodybuilding "cutting." Duchaine trained champions, so when he ran the Bodyopus newsletters back in the 1980s, he brought all of the guys who were training at highly-competitive levels onto ketogenic dieting.

McDonald specifically credits Duchaine (and Mauro di Pasquale) in the introductions to his books, The Ketogenic Diet and Ultimate Diet 2.0 (UD2). McDonald's cyclical ketogenic diet, UD2, was an adaptation of Duchaine's Bodyopus diet. Duchaine died in the late 1990s and McDonald says that he revised Bodyopus because Duchaine was too dead to do it himself. If you google "Lyle McDonald" and "Bodyopus journal" you can find the experiments that McDonald did with Bodyopus, which eventually led to UD2.

I think McDonald deserves a lot of credit because Duchaine would never have given a CKD to the gym populations to which McDonald took it. Duchaine repeatedly says in Bodyopus that his program is absolutely NOT for anyone except high-level competitors who want to be top competitors. On the first page of the introduction, Duchaine says that if you're a man with more than 10% bodyfat or a woman with more than 16% bodyfat, then you should return the book for a refund. Duchaine's attitude was that he wouldn't take on clients who didn't meet his training criteria, and he felt the same way with regard to who *could* and *could not* read his book.

McDonald, on the other hand, was someone who never had the raw material to be a bodybuilding champion and, because of the situation he was in, he could see that people at all physical levels could use the program to improve, as long as they were willing to follow instructions and put in some hard gym work. McDonald has done a tremendous service to a lot more people than Duchaine would probably have reached, but even McDonald admits that Duchaine and Di Pasquale (and I always forget the third guy's name) were the true geniuses behind the approach.

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Originally Posted by gladee88er View Post
But as those fat stores get smaller and smaller, the fat gets more stubborn, and doesn't seem to want to get released for energy as easily as before.
...
It's always a process it seems, that seems to get trickier the leaner you get.
Since you're already familiar with Lyle McDonald, then you may already have read it... But if you haven't yet read McDonald's Stubborn Fat Solution, it's definitely worth a read. He does an amazing job of covering the mechanics of high-level "cutting" for people who aren't necessarily competitive bodybuilders. Just FYI.

From what I've seen, competitive bodybuilders have a love/hate relationship with McDonald. They ALL read him because he's smart and his research is impeccable. But because his body is not "in their league" no one really admits how helpful his work has been to them. Except for my dad, all of the men who are closest to me are bodybuilders and the culture has an uncomfortably weird tribal ego-centrism. So when McDonald starts talking about "his training," it drives them NUTS! I think that's why McDonald's tone in his books is so combative, because he really has to fight with these guys to get them take him seriously. McDonald's combative, sarcastic writing bugs me like crazy, but I've read all of his major books -- my trainer assigned the to me as homework -- and I, honestly, feel like I'm better able to manage my Atkins program and training regime because of McDonald's work.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:16 PM   #37
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Thanks Trillex for that info. I didn't even know about Duchaine's book "Bodyopus". I think I should give it a read. I've never needed advanced nutritional info to really get ripped because I was never close enough. I'm getting into that general area now, so I think it's time to educate myself some more. I'm having a hard time putting it all together to get any leaner than I am, and I still have a ways to go to get to 10% BF.

If you know of any other books or info that could help me out in that regard, I'd appreciate your opinion. Sounds like you've got an excellent trainer too! I'm very interested in discussing this topic in detail. I don't like hanging out in the bodybuilding forums, because most of the members are too hardcore for me, but I do need some help on some of this stuff. There's no one in my area or circle of friends to discuss these things with
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:32 AM   #38
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Exercise does not help in the sense that if you exercise 3,500 calories worth, you will lose a pound of fat.

I don't totally buy the idea that exercise makes you burn more calories when you are resting (even if it did, you would just eat more to compensate).
I totally agree with this. I gained weight during marathon training if I didn't strictly watch what I ate. I never found any correlation with increasing workout time and weight loss.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:05 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by gladee88er View Post
Thanks Trillex for that info. I didn't even know about Duchaine's book "Bodyopus". I think I should give it a read. I've never needed advanced nutritional info to really get ripped because I was never close enough. I'm getting into that general area now, so I think it's time to educate myself some more. I'm having a hard time putting it all together to get any leaner than I am, and I still have a ways to go to get to 10% BF.

If you know of any other books or info that could help me out in that regard, I'd appreciate your opinion. Sounds like you've got an excellent trainer too! I'm very interested in discussing this topic in detail. I don't like hanging out in the bodybuilding forums, because most of the members are too hardcore for me, but I do need some help on some of this stuff. There's no one in my area or circle of friends to discuss these things with
I find this stuff fascinating! But my family and social circles are filled with bodybuilders, so I know how difficult they are to deal with and how occasionally annoying and fake "hardcore" and just flat-out crazy they can be when discussing these topics. I can't even IMAGINE how painful they would be in an anonymous online forum! I know that my brothers both follow a couple of anabolic forums, but I don't even go there because I don't want to see that side of their personalities.

Bodyopus is a great book if you're interested in the culture and history of bodybuilding. Reading it made me understand why Dan Duchaine's legend is still so powerful almost 20 years after his death. Duchaine's charm and cleverness absolutely shine in that book! He was the REAL real deal.

But Bodyopus isn't a good manual, in my opinion, for a reasonable person who wants to cut for non-competition reasons. It's not actually a *diet* book, it's more of a blueprint for people who want to *tweak* their bodies to compete at champion level. The Bodyopus diet is coordinated with workout schedules and drug schedules -- at least half the book is about how to effectively use drugs that are either prescribed for non-weight-related conditions or are illegal to possess or traffic in most developed countries (Duchaine wrote Bodyopus while in prison for trafficking bodybuilding drugs across an international border). To Duchaine, the CKD was basically another way to chemically *tweak* the body by changing its hormonal environment. And Duchaine's approach had some very dangerous aspects -- absolutely no one would or should follow his approach of using vanadyl sulfate to push glycogen depletion these days, because he's suggesting a coma-threatening level of hypoglycemia.

If you do read Bodyopus, you should definitely also read Lyle McDonald's Bodyopus journals. They're posted online. McDonald took a lot of the *craziness* out of the program when he pointed out what worked and what did not work for a non-competition athlete who followed the program. McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 is a more manageable update of Bodyopus -- it has all of the essential elements without the extremes of Duchaine's program. And McDonald's book, The Ketogenic Diet, also gives some good tips on reasonably and effectively managing a CKD or TKD. The workout section of that book is very comprehensive and the suggestions are all backed up with research details and citations.

And as I mentioned earlier, McDonald's Stubborn Fat Solution (SFS) may be exactly what you need at this stage in your journey. It's a simple collection of tips and tricks for "cutting" stubborn fat from the body. The recommendations won't have a visible effect on people who are above a certain bodyfat percentage because people with generous amounts of excess bodyfat typically don't need *tricks*, they just need consistency and accuracy. I guess that concept is debatable, but in a bodybuilding context it is typically true and bodybuilders tend to get out exactly what they're willing to put in -- until men get down to about 8% bodyfat and women to about 12% -- unless they are either metabolically challenged or metabolically gifted. But for "normal" people who are at the point where the basics have stopped working, SFS is a helpful manual for what to do next.

Tom Venuto's Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle (BFFM) is almost as legendary as Duchaine's Bodyopus. It is widely considered to be essential body recomposition reading. But Venuto is somewhat controversial in bodybuilding circles because he doesn't really say anything *new* or particularly interesting. BFFM is basically a distilled collection of the standard advice that you would get from any recreational personal trainer, "Work hard in the gym and watch what you eat!" But the basics are basics for a good reason -- when you follow the right instructions, you will receive reliable results. I think BFFM continues to be popular because Venuto puts everything that bodybuilders know and believe into a convenient package that's really easy to reference. If you just accept it for what it is, I think it's definitely worth reading.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:26 AM   #40
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Good stuff Trillex! I poked around the net last night and found Lyle's "Opus journals". I skimmed through about half of it. It was ok, but he was all over the board, trying different experiments, then saying "I gained a little fat this week, but I didn't do this and that, etc. I do realize it is very difficult to follow exactly as Dan describes in his book, especially the carb-up phase on the weekends.

What I like about the plan is that I have already been doing a very basic version for months now, and I like the extra energy and how the muscles fill out. I don't feel like a leaner version of the Pilsbury dough boy anymore I definitely want to increase the carb-up to one full day to start (Saturday).

I just happened to do a full-body, 2-hour workout this past Friday, and read your post on Saturday. After I learned a little about Dan's book, I got all fired up, and tried to carb it up last night and today. It's REALLY hard to eat enough to meet his numbers. I didn't even come close eating as much rice as I could (it was fun though). I know it is something I'll need to work up to. Tomorrow I'm going to try to find some liquid supplement help, and add some whole-grain pasta, Jasmine rice, and maybe some fruit next weekend. I also need to make sure I tighten up even more during the week so it works like it's supposed to. It only took today to see it definitely works wonders on vascularity and muscle hardness. This is what I've been looking for.

I am going to get Ultimate Diet 2.0 from Lyle. A few posters on T-Nation also mentioned this book, and some said it suited them better, and wasn't such a pain in the a## to follow. I would guess Lyle had enough practice with the original version to tweak it, and make some improvements. I have no illusions or aspirations to parade around a stage with a man-thong anyway

Thanks again for the info. I'm psyched that I have some new stuff to research and play around with to take this thing to the next level!
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:45 AM   #41
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I also wanted to add that in many of the studies cited by Phinney and Volek, the high carb/low calorie diets always lost substantially more muscle than low carb, and they figured that people in ketosis would last about 2 days longer if starved in Antarctica than someone not in ketosis because of the rapidity of protein/lean mass loss when you're not in ketosis.
To add to this. You can watch a real life experiment on TV. Any Survivor fans that watch the show you will notice that more often than not the lean muscular types typically struggle with physical challenges and have on a couple of occasions become very ill and even medivaced out. While the guys and gals carrying a little excess fat will switch to a ketogenic state with a little fatty tissue to cannibalize.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:22 AM   #42
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I have no illusions or aspirations to parade around a stage with a man-thong anyway
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Trillex View Post
I've been eating at the induction level of 20g carbs per day and I've only been eating the foods on the induction list (in the 2002 version of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution). My trainer has been checking out Martin Berkhan and the new(ish) movement to do weight training in the fasted state, so I'm sort of a "science project" to him. Since ketosis mimics fasting, we're using my diet and workout regime to see how much power can consistently be brought to a workout while in the fasted state. My trainer thought I would be a good test case for this because he has trained with both of my brothers -- who are bodybuilders and who, you know, have the exact same parents as me -- and because I'm a woman, so I don't have the same hormonal advantages that men have.

Before we started the program, though, we did a bunch of diagnostic, pre-diet testing. He had me get a urine screening and full bloodwork, as well. He also did a preliminary diagnostic workout in which he regularly monitored my heart rate and checked my blood pressure before and after the workout. He had me eat "normally" for an entire month before I started the diet and had me test my fasting blood glucose daily, then test 30, 60, and 120 minutes after each meal during that month. My blood glucose levels were what my doctor calls "aggressively normal" -- no matter what I ate or how much sugar was in a meal, my blood glucose level never ever went above 115 mg/dl, the level never dropped quickly and never went below the mid-70s mg/dl. This blood glucose information is important because my trainer needed to be sure that fasted workouts wouldn't be likely to induce hypoglycemia.



I would say that my trainer has DEFINITELY made my workouts more productive. He's been in Vegas with his girlfriend since the end of December -- so I've had three looooong weeks without him coaching me and I'm really worried that I haven't pushed myself as hard as he would have pushed me. We work split-sets to muscle failure and I often *feel* like my muscles are exhausted but he'll tell me, "I can see your form, chula, and you've got at least two more reps in you." And he's always right! I do some back exercises with 45-pound dumbbells and, for the life of me, I haven't been able to lift them while I've been on my own. So, when I'm "listening to my body," I'm not actually certain that I'm hearing the correct information.

Part of that, I'm sure, is trust -- I've been close friends with my trainer since we were toddlers. And another part of the reason that I think it works well is because he's, honestly, a uniquely gifted motivator. He says little things that are *dumb* when I stop and think about them afterwards -- for example, "You're a strong woman. You're not gonna stop when you start feeling shaky. You're gonna slow down, breathe, and finish strong." That actually makes no freaking sense. And it seems like terrible advice! If I'm "shaky" then maybe I shouldn't be holding a heavy weight over my chest... But when I'm in the gym and I'm feeling vulnerable, absurd little quips like that genuinely help me get my head together. It's ultra manipulative, but it somehow works for me.

I can't honestly say, though, that the heavy workouts have sped my weight loss -- I've lost pounds at a much slower pace than many (if not most) of the people I follow on the Atkins "challenge" threads on this forum. Plus, it doesn't *look* like the muscle work has visibly affected my shape. To be fair, though, I have a LOT of bodyfat so the advantages may become visible when I have achieved a much lower bodyfat percentage. I had a bodyfat scan before I started (using DEXA), but I haven't yet had a follow-up scan. We've scheduled a follow-up scan for the 1-year mark (in May). That's my trainer's way of keeping me "focused" on my full-year commitment. We've discussed having a scan to check my progress, but I can't seem to talk him into it.
Again thank you very much for sharing your personal experience. I am interested to hear if fasted workouts induce Hypoglycemia or not. I’m hypoglycemic and I am hoping that my new WOE will help reverse this since I am able to eat more throughout the day. Although if ketosis mimics fasting, as you say, then I am wondering if it will indeed help or just make it worse. Please keep me posted on your results! Also thank you again for all of your replies and thorough input, your seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject and it is a great help! Also great job sticking to your workouts while your trainer is in Vegas...it must be tough when you are used to having someone push you to your max and now relying on pushing yourself.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:38 PM   #44
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Over on the bike forums there's a thread started by a guy who wants to lose some weight. When someone replied "you just need to exercise more," he explained that he already rides 8,000 miles per year (150 miles/week), and rode three double centuries (200 miles in one day) last year (I struggle to ride a century). A great illustration.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #45
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they figured that people in ketosis would last about 2 days longer if starved in Antarctica than someone not in ketosis :
I can't wait to use this when asked why I eat LC?
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by gladee88er View Post
Good stuff Trillex! I poked around the net last night and found Lyle's "Opus journals". I skimmed through about half of it. It was ok, but he was all over the board, trying different experiments, then saying "I gained a little fat this week, but I didn't do this and that, etc. I do realize it is very difficult to follow exactly as Dan describes in his book, especially the carb-up phase on the weekends.

What I like about the plan is that I have already been doing a very basic version for months now, and I like the extra energy and how the muscles fill out. I don't feel like a leaner version of the Pilsbury dough boy anymore I definitely want to increase the carb-up to one full day to start (Saturday).

I just happened to do a full-body, 2-hour workout this past Friday, and read your post on Saturday. After I learned a little about Dan's book, I got all fired up, and tried to carb it up last night and today. It's REALLY hard to eat enough to meet his numbers. I didn't even come close eating as much rice as I could (it was fun though). I know it is something I'll need to work up to. Tomorrow I'm going to try to find some liquid supplement help, and add some whole-grain pasta, Jasmine rice, and maybe some fruit next weekend. I also need to make sure I tighten up even more during the week so it works like it's supposed to. It only took today to see it definitely works wonders on vascularity and muscle hardness. This is what I've been looking for.

I am going to get Ultimate Diet 2.0 from Lyle. A few posters on T-Nation also mentioned this book, and some said it suited them better, and wasn't such a pain in the a## to follow. I would guess Lyle had enough practice with the original version to tweak it, and make some improvements. I have no illusions or aspirations to parade around a stage with a man-thong anyway

Thanks again for the info. I'm psyched that I have some new stuff to research and play around with to take this thing to the next level!
I'm so SUPER happy that you're into this stuff! I am, too! In the past, I've followed bodybuilding in order to support my brothers and my uncles and my friends who compete. But since I've been dieting and working out -- and since I've read a lot of background books that my trainer recommended -- I now realize how complex and difficult this work is. So I have grown more and more fascinated by body recomposition with each passing day. It's much more dynamic and beautiful than I'd been able to perceive when I was just a spectator. I'm not looking to ever go up on stage, either, but I'm genuinely enjoying all that I've learned.

Just curious, are you going to try the Bodyopus re-feed formula -- moving from liquid glucose to slower releasing carbs? I'm guessing you don't plan to do it every 2 hours around the clock! HaHa!

One of my ex-boyfriends actually did Duchaine's re-feed exactly as prescribed while he was almost at competition-level bodyfat (between 4-5%) -- and it worked really well. His bodyfat was so low that you could actually see his calves and biceps visibly firm up when the glycogen started packing back in and he gained a couple of millimeters of size in some places. It looked like sci-fi! His forearms were the best they've ever looked, honestly.

When he tried to do it again, though, it wasn't effective. He kind of *bloated* a bit in the torso, which looked AWFUL. In my opinion -- and I was living with him at the time -- it bombed because his ketogenic nutrition wasn't right (he was doing whey shakes that contain fructooligosaccharides) and he did splits instead of a full-body depletion circuit because he was trying to hammer his upper body more intensely. Basically, he didn't follow the instructions and then, somehow, he decided that the re-feed is just a *trick* that only works once. I tried to point out the discrepancy between his actions and the training prescription but he didn't want training tips from his chubby girlfriend, which I can respect because I admittedly know a lot less about training than he knows.

I really enjoy McDonald's Bodyopus journals because that man is bizarre! They're "training journals" but he just randomly talks about whatever crosses his mind -- "I was reading Muscle Media today and those articles were crap!" Really, Lyle? This tells us what, exactly, about your training? Ha!
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:08 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Robofitz View Post
Again thank you very much for sharing your personal experience. I am interested to hear if fasted workouts induce Hypoglycemia or not. I’m hypoglycemic and I am hoping that my new WOE will help reverse this since I am able to eat more throughout the day. Although if ketosis mimics fasting, as you say, then I am wondering if it will indeed help or just make it worse. Please keep me posted on your results! Also thank you again for all of your replies and thorough input, your seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject and it is a great help! Also great job sticking to your workouts while your trainer is in Vegas...it must be tough when you are used to having someone push you to your max and now relying on pushing yourself.
Ketosis mimics fasting because the withdrawal of dietary carbohydrates activates the body's hormonal defenses against starvation. Studies of bodies while in ketosis mirror the study of bodies that are completely deprived of all food sources, with regard to the hormone profile, the level of ketones, level of circulating fatty acids, and several other factors. The body is being "fed" while on a ketogenic diet but it's being fed in a different way, so the the tissues have to re-engineer themselves to use the different fuel source -- shifting from primarily burning glucose to burning fat. This process doesn't happen instantly.

At the start of a ketogenic diet, the tissues are programmed to burn glucose as fuel. During this period, the glycogen stores will be depleted and burned as fuel, and dietary protein will be converted into glucose to feed the cells. It takes, on average, 2-4 weeks for most of the cells to re-engineer themselves to directly burn blood triglycerides as their primary fuel. The conversion process is progressive, so a certain percentage of cells will be re-programmed each day until, after several weeks, the skeletal muscle will be fueled directly by fat and most of the brain will be fed by a by-product of fat, ketones. At least 25% of the brain will always require glucose, so the body will continue to convert some dietary protein to glucose while dietary carbohydrates are unavailable.

My trainer tested my physical responses to check for the threat of hypoglycemia because the body will primarily be fed by glucose during the first several weeks of a ketogenic diet and, even when the body is re-programmed to primarily use fat as fuel, the muscle cells will still draw glucose out of the bloodstream to fuel brief, heavy bursts of strength or speed. For the average person, this shouldn't be a problem because the body always keeps adequate blood glucose in circulation to feed the brain, so glucose is always available when the muscles need it, even on a ketogenic diet. My trainer just wanted to make sure that my body was efficient at maintaining and balancing my blood glucose level. Even if my body had some problems in this area -- which testing shows that it doesn't -- I still wouldn't be in serious danger of hypoglycemia, I would just be likely to experience some lightheadedness and would need to allow my body a few minutes to rebalance my blood glucose levels.

Unfortunately, I'm not particularly knowledgeable about this topic. I've just read the books that my trainer assigned -- he's not a "personal trainer," he's a bodybuilding coach so he needs his clients to understand enough about the basic physiology to be able to report to him any symptoms or concerns that might affect training. Since I don't have a *real* background or education in this field, I don't know what the concerns are or the outlook is for a person who has a tendency toward hypoglycemia. I'll check my sources and, if I find information that is applicable, I'll post it.

My trainer got back yesterday, thank God! I felt absolutely GLORIOUS all day! Unfortunately, I will only have him until May. He made a one-year commitment to help me, because he's one of my best and oldest friends, but I'm not an appropriate long-term client for him. So I need to learn to *do* this on my own.
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