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tgrovesct 01-07-2013 04:17 PM

Can't stay in ketosis!!
 
Several years ago I did "straight Atkins" & lost weight, kept off for quite a while. Add a few years & 3rd shift, well... Been doing very low carb induction for 7 days to kick start ketosis (usually <5 carbs, never >10) and CANNOT stay in the "large" range on ketostix. No cheese, dairy, nuts, "fake" foods, essentially meats of varied fats and eggs. Occasional SMALL mixed green salad with olive oil & red wine vinegar. Any help, suggestions, experiences would be appreciated!!

Mistizoom 01-07-2013 04:29 PM

You might want to check out the Nutritional Ketosis subforum. Try upping the good fats and decreasing protein.

Also, have you been checked for insulin resistance? My husband lost weight years ago on strict Atkins but last year it didn't work at all. Turns out he has type 2 diabetes and now he is losing on low carb while taking metformin.

ETA: Just saw that you are concerned about the range on the ketostix...not sure how meaningful that is? It sounds like you are in ketosis...?

clackley 01-07-2013 04:29 PM

Ketostix are not a good indicator of ketosis and in particular the level of ketosis. They are notoriously bad for a number of reasons including hydration, time of day, and a number of other factors.

I would suggest that you simply need to go by how you feel and begin to eat a normal Atkins woe.

Atkins Chick 01-07-2013 04:31 PM

When you say "large" range on ketostix, do you mean the darker colors? Just so you know, whether its light pink or dark purple, you're in ketosis. Its like saying you're a little pregnant... you either are or not.

Actually, you want to stay in the lighter range of color because that means you have enough water in your body. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the darker the stick the more dehydrated you are.

Mine are always a light pink (next to the no detection color) and Im losing just fine.

clackley 01-07-2013 04:35 PM

People can be in light ketosis and slip in and out. One of the problems with that is that it can leave a person feeling the effects of induction flu unnecessarily. Better to get a good level of ketosis going and stay there for the many benefits it provides.

omgtwins 01-07-2013 04:37 PM

I did the whole ketosis thing and became frustrated - I would use it every day and see nothing and, when I weighed in once a week I'd lost weight - so dont need anything playing head games with me.
I'm with Clackley

Atkins Chick 01-07-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16179460)
People can be in light ketosis and slip in and out. One of the problems with that is that it can leave a person feeling the effects of induction flu unnecessarily. Better to get a good level of ketosis going and stay there for the many benefits it provides.

Thanks for posting this. I didnt realize light ketosis keeps you feeling the effects of induction flu. When you say its better to get a good level of ketosis going and stay there, do you mean for the sticks to be darker? Will upping fat get me to the "good level" and keep me there?

I use the sticks now and then just to see where I am. I want to be sure that what Im eating keeps me in ketosis, but im not obsessive about them. I use one stick every 2 or 3 days to keep me on track.

Adoug4ho 01-07-2013 04:59 PM

Subbing

tymom 01-07-2013 05:23 PM

Do you work out? i was having trouble crossing the threshold last week... but worked out and BOOM. Dark ever since.

clackley 01-07-2013 06:13 PM

Getting into ketosis is usually done through an Atkins induction plan. Losing weight and feeling well are the 'symptoms'. If one is going in and out of ketosis, they may well feel the effects of induction flu as this happens.

If problems with these things crop up there are other strategies.

tgrovesct 01-07-2013 06:25 PM

Thanks for the input so far!
 
Pretty sure I'm not I'm not insulin resistant (though I haven't been tested)... All indicators are opposite: low BP, low glucose, etc. BUT, never used ketostix before - figured I'd make myself "more informed" this time. Maybe just making myself crazy! Thankfully I really don't get the "flu", just some carb cravings for a couple of days. Of course, I'm usually tired and cranky after 3rd shift!! Thanks for the encouragement, advice & info :)

tgrovesct 01-07-2013 06:28 PM

PS - love this "whether its light pink or dark purple, you're in ketosis. Its like saying you're a little pregnant... you either are or not"

Lioness0455 01-07-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgrovesct (Post 16179402)
Several years ago I did "straight Atkins" & lost weight, kept off for quite a while. Add a few years & 3rd shift, well... Been doing very low carb induction for 7 days to kick start ketosis (usually <5 carbs, never >10) and CANNOT stay in the "large" range on ketostix. No cheese, dairy, nuts, "fake" foods, essentially meats of varied fats and eggs. Occasional SMALL mixed green salad with olive oil & red wine vinegar. Any help, suggestions, experiences would be appreciated!!

Ketostix measure the type of ketone that your body doesn't use efficiently. That's why it tosses them. If you're "returning" to a low-carb diet, the body remembers what it learned the last time you followed the diet.

When you're new to low-carb, the body doesn't know how many ketones you're going to need to fuel the brain, muscles, and body systems, so it makes way more than it needs -- hence the "large" amount of ketones it throws away. When you return to low carb, the body has a better idea of how many to make, so fewer are spilled even in the beginning.

As you adapt to the state of ketosis, your muscles and body systems will stop burning ketones for fuel. They will burn fatty acids instead, and begin converting the inefficient ketones the liver makes into the type of ketones the brain can use. That produces fewer ketones that need to be thrown away. This adaption happens faster if you've done low carb before.

As the diet continues, fewer and fewer ketones will be spilled into the urine because the liver will only make the amount of ketones you need to fuel the brain. I stopped spilling ketones about 6 months into the diet. I register absolutely NO ketones on the sticks at all, even at Induction Levels. But I first started low-carbing in 1972.

sooshi 01-08-2013 05:09 AM

Wow, that's really helpful, thanks!

I started low-carbing about... 2.5 years ago, the first time I felt the drop into ketosis very acutely (standing in the supermarket trying to remember what I was in the aisle for, and feeling *really* dizzy and nauseated). I haven't dropped out of low carb for any significant period of time, but I have had carb-creep, my wedding (so I threw 3 sheets to the wind for that day and the honeymoon) and various random days of falling off the wagon, but I've been largely consistent.

I have noticed the last few times I've fallen off the wagon, I'm not really feeling very different - no dizziness at all, no nausea, even my keytone tongue has become less and less apparent... I can always tell when the carbs/glycogenn/glucose leaves as my digestion perks right back up, I sleep better, I feel ace - you know, the general lowcarb buzz. I am also still losing, though veeery slowly, though I'm down to my last half stone and I'm happy with it coming off slowly.

So I guess basically my question is, could this be applicable to me, too? I went and invested in ketostix (for the first time) and I'm coming up with negative readings (I think... they could be the very bottom colour, it does darken, but the tone of the colour looks like the neg reading... hehehehe! As usual, I over analyse!)

I'm really sorry, I realise I just threadjacked, but I think maybe my question has the same root as the OP.

Punkin 01-08-2013 05:17 AM

I don't know if this helps, but LC is a bit different than ketosis. To be in ketosis, you have to also keep your protein levels down. A lot of the meat that we eat, is too lean to really help put you in ketosis. I had to cut my meat almost down to nothing to acheive ketosis. Now I get most of my protein from cheese, eggs, tofu and veggies. They have a higher fat content than most of the meats. I also eat some of the fattier meats such as salmon and ground beef.

clackley 01-08-2013 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16180315)
I don't know if this helps, but LC is a bit different than ketosis. To be in ketosis, you have to also keep your protein levels down. A lot of the meat that we eat, is too lean to really help put you in ketosis. I had to cut my meat almost down to nothing to acheive ketosis. Now I get most of my protein from cheese, eggs, tofu and veggies. They have a higher fat content than most of the meats. I also eat some of the fattier meats such as salmon and ground beef.

Punkin, a lot of folks don't convert protein enough to throw them out of ketosis. Most can simply follow low carb and be in ketosis. That is the norm.

ChristineCQ 01-08-2013 05:29 AM

Urine is also the weakest measure of ketosis. Blood is much more accurate. In other words, you can be in ketosis without a measure in urine.

drjlocarb 01-08-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16180329)
Punkin, a lot of folks don't convert protein enough to throw them out of ketosis. Most can simply follow low carb and be in ketosis. That is the norm.

:goodpost:

terez 01-08-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgrovesct (Post 16179402)
Several years ago I did "straight Atkins" & lost weight, kept off for quite a while. Add a few years & 3rd shift, well... Been doing very low carb induction for 7 days to kick start ketosis (usually <5 carbs, never >10) and CANNOT stay in the "large" range on ketostix. No cheese, dairy, nuts, "fake" foods, essentially meats of varied fats and eggs. Occasional SMALL mixed green salad with olive oil & red wine vinegar. Any help, suggestions, experiences would be appreciated!!

One thing I would add here is to look at the meats you're eating. You say you eat meats of varied fats, etc. I'm wondering if these are seasoned deli meats which can have loads of sugar or wheat gluten added to make them taste better.

tgrovesct 01-09-2013 05:16 AM

No, no processed meats - just not subsisting on chicken breast & fish! Started using the Atkins app on my phone today, so maybe I can stop beating myself up! Keto sticks are obviously NOT the best choice for me (especially since I AM seeing a change on the scale). So if its not allowed on induction, it ain't for me right now!
Thank you all for the support, info, advice!!!

Punkin 01-09-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16180329)
Punkin, a lot of folks don't convert protein enough to throw them out of ketosis. Most can simply follow low carb and be in ketosis. That is the norm.

Really? I was just going on what was stated in the book. Being that the protein can't be too high. It has to be moderate. I also notice that with myself, just through experimentation. Too much protein and I experience an insulin spike, and for me that results in over-eating.

Punkin 01-09-2013 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjlocarb (Post 16181219)
:goodpost:

I was trying to be helpful. I know for me, if people had given me some information based on their experiences, I would have been so appreciative. There is no hard and fast rule about what is "the right way" and "the wrong way" to do things. What works for some people, doesn't always work for others. But I am sure that the OP wants to hear everyone's opinions on what has worked for them in the past.

clackley 01-09-2013 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16180315)
I don't know if this helps, but LC is a bit different than ketosis. To be in ketosis, you have to also keep your protein levels down. A lot of the meat that we eat, is too lean to really help put you in ketosis. I had to cut my meat almost down to nothing to acheive ketosis. Now I get most of my protein from cheese, eggs, tofu and veggies. They have a higher fat content than most of the meats. I also eat some of the fattier meats such as salmon and ground beef.

Punkin, we all appreciate input and the desire to help. It is just that it can be confusing and if someone is saying something that is not accurate, it seems fair to correct the statement even if someone meant something else. I hope you were not offended.

Lots and lots of people eat protein to their desire and are in ketosis. They never have to consider their protein intake. I was one for a few years.

drjlocarb 01-09-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16182844)
I was trying to be helpful. I know for me, if people had given me some information based on their experiences, I would have been so appreciative. There is no hard and fast rule about what is "the right way" and "the wrong way" to do things. What works for some people, doesn't always work for others. But I am sure that the OP wants to hear every one's opinions on what has worked for them in the past.


Punkin, I was not directing anything at you.:hugs: You are being helpful!

I was able to lose 80 lbs in 7 months (years ago) just doing LC and not worrying about anything except the number of carb grams. Most people don't have a problem with protein in the beginning. I would hate for people to think you HAVE to be in NK for LC to work.

For me, at this stage of the game, I DO have to watch protein too. An excess amount of protein in my diet DOES keep me from losing weight at this point. It didn't before, but it does now.

If someone is able to lose weight on a generic ketogenic LC diet, there is no reason to limit protein to the point I have to. It does help to know to be mindful of protein as you journey through your LC weight loss, so your input IS helpful.

Punkin 01-09-2013 09:26 AM

Its funny because I lost all my weight on a HC, low fat diet and I at the time I was eating around 125g protein a day which is pretty high for someone my size. But when I tried to maintain my weight it was disaster. I made a low carb, low fat cheese cake once and it had around 600cal in it. I ate the entire thing and was starving like crazy an hour later. I couldn't figure it out. But later I found out it was because it was so high in protein (73g). I guess my body is just very efficient at converting proteins to glucose, and that is why it causes me a problem. Or maybe it was just too low in fat.

Anyways, for me, I have to watch my levels of protein. I use to eat 150g to 200g of chicken at dinner and not even think twice. Believe it or not for my diet to work for me, chicken doesn't have enough fat in it! Now I pour a creamy sauce all over it made from heavy cream! Either that or I regret it an hour later.

tgrovesct 01-09-2013 01:17 PM

I appreciate ALL the input! Like I originally posted, though I had done Atkins and stuck to low carb for quite some time, I never used the keto sticks. It was driving me crazy! They're obviously not the best indicator for some (including me) & I need to go with how I feel: full? energized? seeing the needle move on the scale? Going back to Atkins induction too. I was tring to kickstart with a meat/egg fast & after a week of only a little purple, would have gnawed someone's arm off for a salad!

gladee88er 01-09-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lioness0455 (Post 16179797)
Ketostix measure the type of ketone that your body doesn't use efficiently. That's why it tosses them. If you're "returning" to a low-carb diet, the body remembers what it learned the last time you followed the diet.

When you're new to low-carb, the body doesn't know how many ketones you're going to need to fuel the brain, muscles, and body systems, so it makes way more than it needs -- hence the "large" amount of ketones it throws away. When you return to low carb, the body has a better idea of how many to make, so fewer are spilled even in the beginning.

As you adapt to the state of ketosis, your muscles and body systems will stop burning ketones for fuel. They will burn fatty acids instead, and begin converting the inefficient ketones the liver makes into the type of ketones the brain can use. That produces fewer ketones that need to be thrown away. This adaption happens faster if you've done low carb before.

As the diet continues, fewer and fewer ketones will be spilled into the urine because the liver will only make the amount of ketones you need to fuel the brain. I stopped spilling ketones about 6 months into the diet. I register absolutely NO ketones on the sticks at all, even at Induction Levels. But I first started low-carbing in 1972.

This is what happened to me. When I first did Atkins years ago, I was able to get the stix to turn deep purple. This past year, I wasn't able to get the stix to turn past light purple no matter how hard I tried. I still was successful. Stopped using the stix, and now go by my hunger. When I'm in ketosis I really don't feel like eating much.


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