Is this a form of eating disorder?

[moonmirror]

I lose and gain the same ten pounds over, and over, and over.

I am "totally 100% lowcarb and calorie restricted and perfect"

And then I am "eating ice cream/cake/cookies/bread/chips/burritos/cheeseburgers/frenchfries"

Its madness.

I don't know where I am in my head with food right now. Utter craziness, I think.

I am so tired of swinging from one extreme to the other. So tired of it. So I tell myself "This is madness" and I try just "eating normally" but its impossible. That's impossible.

There is no "normal" for me. I end up needing a "plan", but again, that usually ends up being some restricted diet again.

My weight is not that bad. I have never been morbidly obese, just overweight...my entire life. My weight never goes over a size 14 even when I binge. I go from a size 10 to a size 14 over, and over, and over, and over again...ad infinitum...

I'm going out of my tree.

[flatferenghi]

i have no practical advice, except that there is some comfort in not being alone. I am morbidly obese, so u have that advantage over me. If i can get through this day, I will be okay. My goal is to become more physically flexible and feel good. Once that happens, I can take on more physical activity, which will help weight loss. Love & Profits: FLATFERENGHI

[godsbeloved79]

This sounds so familiar. It took for me to look in the mirror and get so fed up that I made the decision to follow Atkins, and stop sabotaging my efforts. I hope things get better on your end and you find it easier as time passes to stick to plan.

[moonmirror]

I just found this article. I love how she talks about balance. How using both structure and flow with your eating can free you. Her message in this is also: if you are sugar sensitive, saying no to sugar is a way of loving yourself.

Does intuitive eating lead to sugar addiction? | First Ourselves

[muncheechee]

I'm the exact same way. If you figure it out, let me know! I'm currently reading Brain over Binge... or should say I was reading it before my recent episode of binge eating. Getting back on track now with lc and I'm trying to figure out how to proceed in a way that doesn't end with me eating 2 bags of donuts daily. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone but I totally think this is something we can figure out how to overcome.

[moonmirror]

I agree with sticking to plan, but there has to be some sort of psychological "escape clause," as in if you do eat something outside your usual plan, you can move on.

I had one thing off plan last friday: ONE THING, and Ive been binging for ten days.

Is the answer to "never ever eat anything off plan"

Or to have your one thing, and work hard to move on?

[millergirl1976]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

I agree with sticking to plan, but there has to be some sort of psychological "escape clause," as in if you do eat something outside your usual plan, you can move on.

I had one thing off plan last friday: ONE THING, and Ive been binging for ten days.

Is the answer to "never ever eat anything off plan"

Or to have your one thing, and work hard to move on?

I can only tell you what is working for me, and granted it has only been ten days, however I have never felt more in control.

JUDDD.

There is a forum under the general topics at the top of the forum list, with tons of threads and very helpful people. Every other day, within my up day calorie restriction, I get to eat whatever I want. The opposite days, I restrict my intake significantly. The pattern works for me so far, and I have read lots of other posters with the all-or-nothing mentality that it is working for as well.

Come check it out if you would like.

[svenskamae]

I got caught up in bingeing and bulimia after spending years eating way too little as an anorexic. That happened in my late teens, and I struggled with bulimia to a lessening extent in my 20s, until it just wasn't really an issue for me by my late 20s. I did recognize, however, that eating sugar could set me off, and so I tried to limit my dessert intake to fruit unless I was in a social setting (say, a birthday party serving cake).

Now that I've been not eating any regular or artificial sweeteners (except for a very occasional diet soda), and not eating any grains, for 6 months, the icecream/cake/cookies/burritos/fries stuff just doesn't appeal to me at all, and I'm not tempted to eat it. Maybe I'm just lucky that it's worked out for me.

I don't know how long you have been trying to do lowcarb, but it may be that it will get easier for you over time, especially if you can extend the time when you don't go off plan. Maybe supplements like L-Glutamine would help with cravings (read Julia Ross's The Diet Cure); maybe try the book Brain Over Binge that many people seem to find helpful.

I get frustrated by a slow rate of weight loss and stalls, even though I almost never eat off plan, but I try to remind myself of how much better I feel eating low carb (no IBS, no acid reflux, more energy, better sleep), and that this is just my woe for the rest of my life, not a diet. Are you thinking of lowcarb as a temporary diet or as the way you need to eat forever to be healthy and feel well? Are there non-weight-related benefits you experience, that you can remind yourself of? Have you tried journaling, noting down how you are feeling and what are your triggers, when you are tempted to go off plan in a big way? Maybe you should try less to be 100 perfect, but instead give yourself permission for small off-plan treats occasionally (say, one meal per week, or a small portion-controlled serving of a carby food eaten in a cafe or restaurant--don't bring home a whole package of it!), and then get experience getting right back on plan the next meal, rather than going into a full binge.

I hear your frustration in your post, and I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time. You might consider trying therapy or an in-person support group, like Overeaters Anonymous or TOPS, if getting support from the people on this board isn't enough. I hope you feel better soon.

[moonmirror]

Thanks so much for all your thoughtful responses.

I've tried JUDDD four times in the last few months. I binge. It really made me crazy. I know it works for some but it sent me off the deep end.

I tried VLC and it worked for awhile; especially with appetite suppression, until fatigue, leg cramps and depression overwhelmed me.

I tried just eating what I want and not stressing, but I binge.

If I think back a little, the only long-term success I had with eating; both physiological and psychological, is a loose low-carb diet without measuring, weighing or restriction. Certain foods I didn't worry about eating, and certain foods I ate in moderation like nuts, yogurt, natural peanut butter or berries. I even got to a point where I'd eat some bad carbs once a month or so and move on.

I did that once for 4-5 months and found some balance. I may try that again with some exercise and body acceptance.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

I agree with sticking to plan, but there has to be some sort of psychological "escape clause," as in if you do eat something outside your usual plan, you can move on.

I had one thing off plan last friday: ONE THING, and Ive been binging for ten days.

Is the answer to "never ever eat anything off plan"

Or to have your one thing, and work hard to move on?

None of us can guarantee that we will "never eat anything off plan" again; life and social events and getting trapped somewhere without on-plan food happen.

The best thing you can do is move on, getting right back on plan, when you have something off plan. I know that doesn't factor in the fact that sugar or wheat or other trigger foods may set off cravings, however, so it's best to recognize and particularly avoid your trigger foods. I think that something all people eating lowcarb successfully for a long time share in common is that they get RIGHT BACK ON PLAN the very next meal, after eating something off plan.

[moonmirror]

Originally Posted by svenskamae

I get frustrated by a slow rate of weight loss and stalls, even though I almost never eat off plan, but I try to remind myself of how much better I feel eating low carb (no IBS, no acid reflux, more energy, better sleep), and that this is just my woe for the rest of my life, not a diet. Are you thinking of lowcarb as a temporary diet or as the way you need to eat forever to be healthy and feel well? Are there non-weight-related benefits you experience, that you can remind yourself of? Have you tried journaling, noting down how you are feeling and what are your triggers, when you are tempted to go off plan in a big way? Maybe you should try less to be 100 perfect, but instead give yourself permission for small off-plan treats occasionally (say, one meal per week, or a small portion-controlled serving of a carby food eaten in a cafe or restaurant--don't bring home a whole package of it!), and then get experience getting right back on plan the next meal, rather than going into a full binge.

I like your idea of "practicing" the getting back on plan. I'll try my moderate approach for awhile and then maybe I could work on this. Right now I'm in a place of chaos so I may wait to give this a try.

Actually all of this is very helpful. I needed some help thinking this through this morning and this has been great help.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

If I think back a little, the only long-term success I had with eating; both physiological and psychological, is a loose low-carb diet without measuring, weighing or restriction. Certain foods I didn't worry about eating, and certain foods I ate in moderation like nuts, yogurt, natural peanut butter or berries. I even got to a point where I'd eat some bad carbs once a month or so and move on.

I did that once for 4-5 months and found some balance. I may try that again with some exercise and body acceptance.

Sound like a good plan for you! I think you should definitely try this again, and maybe try some other tools (like the L-Glutamine to combat cravings) to help, as well. It sounds healthy and like you would lose weight on it, although maybe a little slowly (which is fine). Far better a slower weight of weight loss than none plus feeling miserable from binges. Good for you for thinking back to find something that did work for you. And when/if you eat off plan (having some bad carbs, as you put it), do prioritize moving on and getting back to your plan the very next meal. The exercise and body acceptance work should be good for you, too, both physically and psychologically.

I really hope this works for you and brings you some peace.

[SoHappy]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

I lose and gain the same ten pounds over, and over, and over.

I am "totally 100% lowcarb and calorie restricted and perfect"

And then I am "eating ice cream/cake/cookies/bread/chips/burritos/cheeseburgers/frenchfries"

Its madness.

I don't know where I am in my head with food right now. Utter craziness, I think.

I am so tired of swinging from one extreme to the other. So tired of it. So I tell myself "This is madness" and I try just "eating normally" but its impossible. That's impossible.

There is no "normal" for me. I end up needing a "plan", but again, that usually ends up being some restricted diet again.

My weight is not that bad. I have never been morbidly obese, just overweight...my entire life. My weight never goes over a size 14 even when I binge. I go from a size 10 to a size 14 over, and over, and over, and over again...ad infinitum...

I'm going out of my tree.

I can only answer for myself, but I don't think it is an eating disorder as much as just the result of repression that you don't want to have to submit to.

It's like having that bulge in the inner tube, where you keep pushing it back in, and it just bulges out in another spot.

I think when we truly come to terms with whatever we have chosen, it finally works for us, but if we're just doing what we have heard we should, what we think we should, what we believe we should... but we haven't truly got to the stage where it's what we WANT to do - and I'm not just talking about food choices, 'cause this applies to a lot of other areas of our lives as well - it so often backfires on us, and we go overboard at some time, in some way, to our overall detriment, and often the result takes us further from where we'd aimed than we were initially.

I identify with this concerning foods, so I finally decided it would be best for me to find out how to live with all foods, and instead learn how to stay within a range. As you already know, JUDDD filled that bill for me and allows me to succeed. I know you tried JUDDD briefly.

Is there a low carb plan that might work for you from the standpoint of starting out at a higher level and working yourself downward to the point where you are 1,000% content with your food options and choices?

Could you start out on Atkins Maintenance and then work yourself downward into, perhaps, the Ongoing Weight Loss level of the plan for your ongoing weight loss, and then work yourself back up into Maintenance once you're at goal?

Sorry you are having this trouble. You are certainly not alone. I hope you find the plan that works perfectly for you. And you know.. you're always welcome back at JUDDD again, even if you only do a modified version of it..

[SoHappy]

Another thought. Could you just spend some time eating low carb, but not paying any attention to the quantities of the food. So all the lavish and luscious foods available to us in the low carb category, including even those foods listed for us in the upper OWL levels, and plenty of desserts and snacks from the LCF Recipe Room... all with the focus on being *Free* to eat at will, but only on the low carb versions of stuff.

I don't use the artificial or alternate sweeteners or flours or baking mixes or products, even, but I know many here do and create special yummy things that they say are fabulous! If you enjoy those flavors, perhaps that would work for you...

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by SoHappy

Another thought. Could you just spend some time eating low carb, but not paying any attention to the quantities of the food. So all the lavish and luscious foods available to us in the low carb category, including even those foods listed for us in the upper OWL levels, and plenty of desserts and snacks from the LCF Recipe Room... all with the focus on being *Free* to eat at will, but only on the low carb versions of stuff.

I don't use the artificial or alternate sweeteners or flours or baking mixes or products, even, but I know many here do and create special yummy things that they say are fabulous! If you enjoy those flavors, perhaps that would work for you...

Sounds like another way to get used to staying low carb, that might work for you!

[moonmirror]

Originally Posted by SoHappy

Another thought. Could you just spend some time eating low carb, but not paying any attention to the quantities of the food. So all the lavish and luscious foods available to us in the low carb category, including even those foods listed for us in the upper OWL levels, and plenty of desserts and snacks from the LCF Recipe Room... all with the focus on being *Free* to eat at will, but only on the low carb versions of stuff.

Yes, this is similar to what I did that helped me; especially when I added exercise.

I just stayed grain- and sugar-free with limited artificial foods and gave myself free reign within that.

What's frustrated me with that in the past is the slow weight loss, which is hard for an all or nothing person.

But like I said, my weight is not at a dangerous level and my eating bothers me more than my weight does...if that makes sense.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

Yes, this is similar to what I did that helped me; especially when I added exercise.

I just stayed grain- and sugar-free with limited artificial foods and gave myself free reign within that.

What's frustrated me with that in the past is the slow weight loss, which is hard for an all or nothing person.

But like I said, my weight is not at a dangerous level and my eating bothers me more than my weight does...if that makes sense.

I think that makes a lot of sense. I also think that we are more likely to keep off the weight that we lose somewhat slowly, because we are building new healthy habits that can carry forward into maintenance. Frankly, even if one goes all out with limiting carbs, limiting calories, and exercising a lot, there's no absolute guarantee that weight loss will happen quickly (or even at all). Some people lose better, as well as feel better, if they keep their carbs and calories moderate, rather than very low. And it sounds like your peace of mind from feeling in control of your eating would be worth a lot.

I hope to hear back from you on this board, to find out if you are feeling better and if this approach is more workable for you.

[cfine]

I can't go "off plan" with wheat at all. It causes crazy obsessing and binging. As long as I stay off of wheat and sugar, I can go off plan with a bit of popcorn or even a bite or two of potato.
I recommend the book "Wheat Belly." It totally helped me see wheat in a different way.

[Psmileyf]

I was the same way for years...between a size 12 and 16. Back and forth.
Last year I started low carb and behavior modification. I've lost more weight than I ever imagined I could.
I think the behavior modification is the key. It is a lot of tracking and figuring out your habits and working on them.

[DD80]

I have this same problem and I feel for you. You sound a lot like me. I never let myself get above a 14, and usually am around a 10, but have been as low as a 6. I've gone up and down my whole life. I was just looking at pics of myself and even between grade-middle-highschool, my weight was different depending on the year. I have always had trouble around food and finally...at 31 years old (almost 32) I'm STARTING to figure it out. I think everyone's journey is different, but I've read it all and tried to do it all and nothing quelches those cravings. I hate when people say, "well just don't eat that." I wish it was that easy. I love that some people can just make a decision to eat healthfully and that's it. I can't.

The only thing that has started to turn it around for me is 1) JUDDD (I know you said this didn't work for you, but I think it is working for me) and 2) Zone diet principles. I don't eat by the book Zone diet...I couldn't do that. Don't restrict me! I'll overcompensate. I'll eat everything I'm not supposed to! But, you sound like you like to eat the same things as me (berries, nuts, yogurt, etc) and I think you might like the Zone. JUDDD did bring out my binging...and for the past few months, I thought it was making it go out of control. BUT, I was maintaining...whihc is unheard of in DD80 land. But, I decided tried 5 days of "normal" eating. You know what? I did great and kept myself contained. But, I missed the feelings of the down days. The low days kind of feel cleansing in a way. So, I went back to JUDDD. I'm comfortable here for now.

Number 3 for me was the biggest. I realized one day that life is just too damn short for me to keep worrying about when I'm going to be able to eat, if I'm going to be able to control myself, if I'll get enough to eat, and finally, if I'll gain weight. I enjoy food! I'm sick of restricting! "No, I can't eat that!" "You want to go to a pizza place? I can't do that!" I just want to be "normal." Whatever that is. All I know is life is too short to restrict AND to binge. I'm finding what normal is for me now.

Now, I'm still reading the books. I'm still trying to identify why I picked up these behaviors - what emotional blackness am I trying to contain with food? I'm learning to LIVE.

I hope you find your way.

[moonmirror]

That's interesting DD that juddd worked for you, it seems a lot of people similar to me in weight and food issues have had success with juddd. Makes me think, and of course I am not ruling it out as an option.

Today turned out to be a nice normal food day. What a relief! Coffee with heavy cream in early morning. Two hardboiled eggs for breakfast with 1/2 grapefruit. A smoothie with full fat yogurt, berries and cream for lunch. Two cheese sticks with a handful of almonds for a snack. For dinner, all I wanted was a big salad: Didn't feel like meat. Just salad! With a nice balsalmic vinaigrette.

Yesterday was terrible binging madness; so today really was a relief.

I so appreciate all your posts. I'll be re-reading them because you are all smart and have obviously worked through a lot of this with your own struggles and discoveries.

[Lowcarblife]

This awful roller coaster is all too familiar. If I slip up it's like the wires go insane in my brain. The only carbs I have had in over 6 months are 1 serving of fruit and 2 servings whole grain/healthy carbs per day. Recently I have returned to doing no fruit no grains at all and feel even better. I have decided that what works for me is no wiggle room. If I cheat, I will binge for a month, secretively and shamefully, it's awful. Plus I have anxiety which is non existent when my blood sugar stays level. I don't monitor what I eat at all other than no carbs. I mean no fast food or anything, but if I want a bunch of nuts, or veggies with hummus, I'm going to eat them! Oh and I swear it gets easier. I haven't had pasta/pizza/rolls, etc. in years and don't care if I ever do again. I don't even crave sugar anymore come to think about it. The only time it is hard is socially, when everyone is having dessert. You may not even necessarily want it, but it is embarrassing when people keep trying to get you to have "just a tiny piece." So if it is just awful for you, I recommend completely cutting it out. Make sure you are satiated by the other foods in your diet, and tell yourself you can eat a lot, just not those foods, which trigger an unhealthy response in your brain. It gets so much easier, I swear, give it 3 weeks, you will feel amazing.

[Luca]

Can totally relate-been having crazy binge days and cravings...I hate not having the control to stop at ONE bad choice. It seems like I have to binge and get to a self-loathing state to get back on track. It really sucks. Keep us posted...I understand EXACTLY what you are going through.

[nmcowgurl]

I know excatly what you are going threw exept i dontseemto be going up and down on the scale.Im 3 pounds heavier thenmy lowestso far and Im stalled I mean really stalled Im not losing anything.And now even when i eat low carb my stomach blows up and I feel horrible for about an hour as I sit on the toliet wishing the pain would go away.

[mamasooze]

Originally Posted by svenskamae

Sound like a good plan for you! I think you should definitely try this again, and maybe try some other tools (like the L-Glutamine to combat cravings) to help, as well. It sounds healthy and like you would lose weight on it, although maybe a little slowly (which is fine). Far better a slower weight of weight loss than none plus feeling miserable from binges. Good for you for thinking back to find something that did work for you. And when/if you eat off plan (having some bad carbs, as you put it), do prioritize moving on and getting back to your plan the very next meal. The exercise and body acceptance work should be good for you, too, both physically and psychologically.

I really hope this works for you and brings you some peace.

Several years ago when I had my biggest loss (about 30 pounds--which has stayed off) I used the L-Glutamine late in the afternoons to combat my wine cravings. I was surprised at how, after just a few days, effective it was. I still keep some in the cupboard for a just-in-case scenario. I haven't really tested its effectiveness against my chocolate craving and I really don't want to. I keep that craving in check.

I am down 57 lbs since May 2005. Have finally reached what is (I hope) the end of this Weight Loss journey-- we will eat healthy from now on-- and need to lose about 17 more lbs. I have kicked around the last 20 lbs and decided no more sabotaging myself. I have come too far and size 8 is within reach. JUDD did not work for me either. I need to follow the glycemic rules and getting shaky at 10am and having only 500-600 calories to eat in a day was not going to work out ( didn't Kimkins teach me anything?) Sticking to lean meats (we eat fish sometimes 3 times a week) leafy greens, non starchy veg...you should be ok. but do give the L-Glutamine a try. And its cheap too.

[DD80]

Originally Posted by moonmirror

That's interesting DD that juddd worked for you, it seems a lot of people similar to me in weight and food issues have had success with juddd. Makes me think, and of course I am not ruling it out as an option.

Today turned out to be a nice normal food day. What a relief! Coffee with heavy cream in early morning. Two hardboiled eggs for breakfast with 1/2 grapefruit. A smoothie with full fat yogurt, berries and cream for lunch. Two cheese sticks with a handful of almonds for a snack. For dinner, all I wanted was a big salad: Didn't feel like meat. Just salad! With a nice balsalmic vinaigrette.

Yesterday was terrible binging madness; so today really was a relief.

I so appreciate all your posts. I'll be re-reading them because you are all smart and have obviously worked through a lot of this with your own struggles and discoveries.

Sounds like you had a great day!

I just wanted to add that since this "change" in my attitude towards food, I'm starting to lose my "urgency" towards it. Like, I don't need to have 90 brownies right now because there won't be any later. I find that if I really listen to my hunger signals, I eat much better and sometimes don't even take one brownie. It is strange, but I just remind myself that if I really want one, I can always go get another. I also don't let a "binge" or a "brownie" or two brownies ruin my whole day. I just keep going with the day as I want to eat. I don't get down on myself about it - that never helped anyway. That is something that never worked for me in the past, but is working for me now. I can only attribute it to my change in attitude.

[Luca]

It's interesting how one day can be so different than the next. Yesterday was awful for me-today, I feel in control and great.
I try to analyze and analyze, what is it that makes a difference? It's hard to tell for me. Maybe it's just having a constant dialogue within in ourselves? Any thoughts? I find this topic rather interesting...

[Dezi]

Maybe its boredom with your plan. That's why you go off. Find on-plan alternatives (Breyers carb smart icecream??) or start believing in a new plan (but this site friendly plan).

Some people say "Oh I won't eat artifical sweetners". But holds no water with me when they eat REAL icecream and gain weight. How is that better? They are going to have to eat a lot more blueberries or something if they want sweet yet won't eat an AS. Otherwise you are commited to a life free of sweet. Thats it. No more sweet. Be someone who likes salty only. Since LC seems to be good about savory.


Use the recipes here! They work and are awesome.

You might need a change of plan if you are bored. A disordered person has a wrong view of their body I think. (thinks they are fat when they are not...) If you are disordered than I am! I obsess (but dont really swing up and down) about my diet.

Almondbutter and blueberries inside a 3 net carb (10g fiber and no sugar) mission tortilla is a great sweet tooth satisfier and PB+J replacement and it tastes fan freaking tastic. I don't put "wrong foods" in my cart when I shop, and I won't go out of my way and drive to buy the one off plan thing I am craving.

[Carly]

I can very much relate to what you shared in your origional post and for me, JUDDD has been the answer. It has freed me from obsession with food and has allowed me to enjoy any and all food within reason. No food is off limits and that is very liberating for me.

[ravenrose]

how old are you? if you are young, and by that I mean under 40 for sure, maybe under 50, you might really have issues in the future with not being able to get DOWN after you have bounced up. If you are already over 50, you might have a good enough metabolism to cope with this over time.