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Old 06-08-2012, 01:33 PM   #1
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What are the top ways to get into and keep lipolysis (ketosis) going?

Obviously controlling carbs...but trying to remind myself daily of what I need to do to keep the ketostix dark! Totally aware of controlling carbs...but what else gets the fat melting fires burning and keeps me in lipolysis (ketosis)? I've totally hit brain-deadness with all the books I'm reading!!! I do DANDR. If someone has that book, maybe you can even direct me to the pages that re-iterate what foods and habits keep the fires flaming hot and the fat melting.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #2
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I'm interested to see how people reply to your question! I have been under the impression that you're either in ketosis or you're not, and the shade of red on the stix just indicates the concentration of ketones. So, a friend that I am doing this LCHF plan with, is a runner. He says that when he goes for a long run, the stix will not register any ketones at all, because he has burned all his energy. Once he recovers from the run, they come back. Also, I have hear that the darker the red, the more dehydrated you are.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:04 PM   #3
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I just read the book "The Art and Science of a low Carb Diet" They mention keto stix in the book. After you've been in ketosis for awhile you won't have many ketones in the urine.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:49 PM   #4
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Yes, the color of the ketostix is no indication of the 'level' of ketosis at all.

I suspect they were originally a 'gimmick' that Dr. A advised to help people understand ketosis and 'see' that they were in ketosis.

To stay in ketosis, you need to stay low carb.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:20 PM   #5
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So I thought high fat diet helps you stay in ketosis??? How about more water? I have that Art and Science book and will have to look it up.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #6
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To stay in ketosis you MUST EAT FATS. If you don't have enough fat in your diet, you will burn protein instead of fat.

I ketone-test regularly. I find that they accurately reflect my diet: When I'm light on the fats, I get light pink stick. When I'm heavy on the fat, I get purple sticks (and lots of weight-loss). And when I fall off plan, they go yellow. This time, I've been in ketosis for 6 months (with a couple time-outs). The first time I did Atkins, I was there for 6 months with NO "time outs".

When I'm not in "deep" enough to suit me, I'll actively increase the amount of butter, mayo, cream cheese, macadamias, etc that I'm eating. Within 36 hours I'll see improvement and increased weight loss.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:24 PM   #7
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I have never used the sticks. I find if I keep my fats at 70% or more I lose weight and stay statisfied longer. Each person is diferent and you need to find your way that works for you. But I Love Fat

Last edited by kat mommy; 06-08-2012 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #8
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I don't really know, but you need to deplete and not replenish your glycogen stores I somehow seem to fall into ketosis in a day...some mad cardio ( to deplete) and a very low carb/low cal diet (not to replete) seem to do it for me.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiterateGriffin View Post
To stay in ketosis you MUST EAT FATS. If you don't have enough fat in your diet, you will burn protein instead of fat.

I ketone-test regularly. I find that they accurately reflect my diet: When I'm light on the fats, I get light pink stick. When I'm heavy on the fat, I get purple sticks (and lots of weight-loss). And when I fall off plan, they go yellow. This time, I've been in ketosis for 6 months (with a couple time-outs). The first time I did Atkins, I was there for 6 months with NO "time outs".

When I'm not in "deep" enough to suit me, I'll actively increase the amount of butter, mayo, cream cheese, macadamias, etc that I'm eating. Within 36 hours I'll see improvement and increased weight loss.
When I see post like this it really confuses me. I'm sorry if this is not the right place for this question but how is HIGH FATS good for our HEART?? Please don't tell me to "read the book" b/c I AM reading the book and maybe I missed it or haven't gotten that to that part yet. Perhaps someone can give me the cliff notes on WHY high fat is good..maybe the idea of fat being bad for you is just SO ingrained in my mind I just can't wrap my mind around it!

When you all eat butter do you eat real butter or does any vegetable spread work?? Personally I only eat real butter. And Mayo? What kind of mayo?? Wow I have so many questions !!! I'm sorry guys.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:11 AM   #10
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OK, Laurelai... Here are the cliff notes:


Frankly, I found the explanation of why high-fats are good for your heart in nearly every chapter of the book.

The research backing low-fats is deeply flawed. The first man who suggested it LIED in his research, falsifying his data. (That is, he selected only the 6 results -- out of 20 -- that supported his hypothesis, and tossed out the 14 results that did not.) Other research that has been used to tell us fat is bad did things like feed animal-fat to herbivores, and then observe how they became ill. Well of course! I live with an herbivore -- a rabbit. You have to be VERY careful what a rabbit eats. Even eating things that are GOOD for a rabbit can make it ill -- they have notoriously tricky digestion. Feeding it animal-fat would certainly kill the poor bunny. They're not set up to metabolize it. Yet, it was a study done ON RABBITS that lead to us being told saturated fat caused heart disease. Humans have the teeth & digestive systems of omnivores, not herbivores. Yet tests with omnivores (like rats & pigs) have shown the opposite to be true.

Remember, Laurelai -- Dr. Atkins was a CARDIOLOGIST, and he was successfully treating his patients this way.

"Low-fat for a healthy heart" has become very ingrained. And it's complete BS.

When my great-grandmother was raising her children, there was almost zero heart disease in this country. Wanna know what they ate every day? Eggs. Bacon. Butter. Pork-fat. Lard. They cooked their 3 eggs for breakfast in bacon grease. They put a big dollop of butter in the middle of every dish that was served, including veggies. (I know this, because I was raised by her children.) AND THEY HAD NO HEART DISEASE. After we invented margarine, introduced manufactured foods, and started telling people to stop eating butter, eggs, and bacon, heart disease has become our #1 killer. It's not the fat that's to blame.

You say you're reading the book... In "DANDR", read chapter 15-16: "Good protection for your heart" and "Dietary Fat: Real offender or innocent scapegoat?" This will show you Dr. Atkins explaining 20 years ago what current research like the above videos is just now bringing into the mainstream.

I always eat real butter. The partially hydrogenated fats in "vegetable spreads" will kill you. (And Dr. Atkins was the first to warn me about the dangers of this, long before the public became aware of "Trans fats".) I use Best Foods/Hellman's mayo. It's made with all simple ingredients that I would use if I were making it from scratch (with the addition of one preservative at the end) I use the "regular" formula, because when I looked at the "Olive oil" one, it was full of chemicals I couldn't pronounce. In other words, it was no longer simply made from real foods.

The best thing you can do when choosing WHICH type of something to get is read the label. The more ingredients -- and the fewer of those ingredients that are something you have in your kitchen -- the more you want to avoid it. Dr. Atkins warned very strongly about the dangers of processed food. He insisted that as much as possible, we needed to be eating wholesome, nutrient-dense, WHOLE foods. Use that in your guideline.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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Being in ketosis and lipolysis can be 2 different things and the difference being that ketosis is the the kind of fuel one's body is burning and lipolysis is specifically burning body fat for fuel. I think the O.P. was asking specifically about lipolysis. In which case, the answer is not easy because it is complicated and confounding.

I have been in ketosis for more than 2.5 yrs and have only lost weight in 1 of those years. So my body fuel is fats but they are dietary fats and not stored body fat. If someone has the answer on how to get body fats to burn, I am more than a bit interested.

As for the poster who questioned eating fat and heart health - keep reading and exploring, there is more than enough good science out there to support a high fat woe and the whole 'heart healthy/low fat' hypothesis is being retracted - slowly but surely.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelai View Post
When I see post like this it really confuses me. I'm sorry if this is not the right place for this question but how is HIGH FATS good for our HEART?? Please don't tell me to "read the book" b/c I AM reading the book and maybe I missed it or haven't gotten that to that part yet. Perhaps someone can give me the cliff notes on WHY high fat is good..maybe the idea of fat being bad for you is just SO ingrained in my mind I just can't wrap my mind around it!

When you all eat butter do you eat real butter or does any vegetable spread work?? Personally I only eat real butter. And Mayo? What kind of mayo?? Wow I have so many questions !!! I'm sorry guys.

Here is a little article on resent research that may ease you mind on all the fat.
$1,000,000,000 Worth of Research Later: Eating Fat Does *Not* Harm Health - The Smarter Science Of Slim
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LiterateGriffin View Post
OK, Laurelai... Here are the cliff notes:

Sugar: The Bitter Truth
Enjoy eating saturated fats: They're good for you

Frankly, I found the explanation of why high-fats are good for your heart in nearly every chapter of the book.

The research backing low-fats is deeply flawed. The first man who suggested it LIED in his research, falsifying his data. (That is, he selected only the 6 results -- out of 20 -- that supported his hypothesis, and tossed out the 14 results that did not.) Other research that has been used to tell us fat is bad did things like feed animal-fat to herbivores, and then observe how they became ill. Well of course! I live with an herbivore -- a rabbit. You have to be VERY careful what a rabbit eats. Even eating things that are GOOD for a rabbit can make it ill -- they have notoriously tricky digestion. Feeding it animal-fat would certainly kill the poor bunny. They're not set up to metabolize it. Yet, it was a study done ON RABBITS that lead to us being told saturated fat caused heart disease. Humans have the teeth & digestive systems of omnivores, not herbivores. Yet tests with omnivores (like rats & pigs) have shown the opposite to be true.

Remember, Laurelai -- Dr. Atkins was a CARDIOLOGIST, and he was successfully treating his patients this way.

"Low-fat for a healthy heart" has become very ingrained. And it's complete BS.

When my great-grandmother was raising her children, there was almost zero heart disease in this country. Wanna know what they ate every day? Eggs. Bacon. Butter. Pork-fat. Lard. They cooked their 3 eggs for breakfast in bacon grease. They put a big dollop of butter in the middle of every dish that was served, including veggies. (I know this, because I was raised by her children.) AND THEY HAD NO HEART DISEASE. After we invented margarine, introduced manufactured foods, and started telling people to stop eating butter, eggs, and bacon, heart disease has become our #1 killer. It's not the fat that's to blame.

You say you're reading the book... In "DANDR", read chapter 15-16: "Good protection for your heart" and "Dietary Fat: Real offender or innocent scapegoat?" This will show you Dr. Atkins explaining 20 years ago what current research like the above videos is just now bringing into the mainstream.

I always eat real butter. The partially hydrogenated fats in "vegetable spreads" will kill you. (And Dr. Atkins was the first to warn me about the dangers of this, long before the public became aware of "Trans fats".) I use Best Foods/Hellman's mayo. It's made with all simple ingredients that I would use if I were making it from scratch (with the addition of one preservative at the end) I use the "regular" formula, because when I looked at the "Olive oil" one, it was full of chemicals I couldn't pronounce. In other words, it was no longer simply made from real foods.

The best thing you can do when choosing WHICH type of something to get is read the label. The more ingredients -- and the fewer of those ingredients that are something you have in your kitchen -- the more you want to avoid it. Dr. Atkins warned very strongly about the dangers of processed food. He insisted that as much as possible, we needed to be eating wholesome, nutrient-dense, WHOLE foods. Use that in your guideline.

Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction! Definately gonna check this out! Sorry for the thread interruption .____.

And thank you pinkpwincess as well!!
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:44 PM   #14
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Laurelai, please check this link: LORELAI! You asked why fat isn't bad for your heart... (I started posting at you on the main board, about your very valid questions. )
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Old 06-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #15
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So the color of the ketosis strip doesn't matter? I have been in the small to moderate range since I have began and all I am eating is fats.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:59 PM   #16
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Forget the "Stix". Stick with 5-10 grams of carbohydrate daily, and you'll be fine.....

Good Luck,
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:21 PM   #17
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Fastest I ever got into ketosis: one day of fasting, followed by 2 meals a day zero carb for two days. Mostly, I didn't eat much; and drank water or diet coke.

My meals were mostly bacon cheeseburgers. No bun, of course.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Geesebaby View Post
Obviously controlling carbs...but trying to remind myself daily of what I need to do to keep the ketostix dark! Totally aware of controlling carbs...but what else gets the fat melting fires burning and keeps me in lipolysis (ketosis)? I've totally hit brain-deadness with all the books I'm reading!!! I do DANDR. If someone has that book, maybe you can even direct me to the pages that re-iterate what foods and habits keep the fires flaming hot and the fat melting.

"What if your sticks don't "turn"?
A negative result does not always mean you're not in ketosis. If you're keeping your carbs below a certain level (different for different people, but the 20 to 40 carbs per day range is a safe bet), you're probably in ketosis. Some people use their ketones more efficiently, and indeed make fewer of them, hence their lack of "spill" into the urine."
And it also mentions that we are all different some some of us do burn all our ketones well thus leaving less in the urine.

IMO, it's really hard to say. Just keep it low 50- g carbs p/day and you should be just fine. If you aren't sure, do a workout and burn the glycogen away.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiterateGriffin View Post
OK, Laurelai... Here are the cliff notes:

Sugar: The Bitter Truth
Enjoy eating saturated fats: They're good for you

Frankly, I found the explanation of why high-fats are good for your heart in nearly every chapter of the book.

The research backing low-fats is deeply flawed. The first man who suggested it LIED in his research, falsifying his data. (That is, he selected only the 6 results -- out of 20 -- that supported his hypothesis, and tossed out the 14 results that did not.) Other research that has been used to tell us fat is bad did things like feed animal-fat to herbivores, and then observe how they became ill. Well of course! I live with an herbivore -- a rabbit. You have to be VERY careful what a rabbit eats. Even eating things that are GOOD for a rabbit can make it ill -- they have notoriously tricky digestion. Feeding it animal-fat would certainly kill the poor bunny. They're not set up to metabolize it. Yet, it was a study done ON RABBITS that lead to us being told saturated fat caused heart disease. Humans have the teeth & digestive systems of omnivores, not herbivores. Yet tests with omnivores (like rats & pigs) have shown the opposite to be true.

Remember, Laurelai -- Dr. Atkins was a CARDIOLOGIST, and he was successfully treating his patients this way.

"Low-fat for a healthy heart" has become very ingrained. And it's complete BS.

When my great-grandmother was raising her children, there was almost zero heart disease in this country. Wanna know what they ate every day? Eggs. Bacon. Butter. Pork-fat. Lard. They cooked their 3 eggs for breakfast in bacon grease. They put a big dollop of butter in the middle of every dish that was served, including veggies. (I know this, because I was raised by her children.) AND THEY HAD NO HEART DISEASE. After we invented margarine, introduced manufactured foods, and started telling people to stop eating butter, eggs, and bacon, heart disease has become our #1 killer. It's not the fat that's to blame.

You say you're reading the book... In "DANDR", read chapter 15-16: "Good protection for your heart" and "Dietary Fat: Real offender or innocent scapegoat?" This will show you Dr. Atkins explaining 20 years ago what current research like the above videos is just now bringing into the mainstream.

I always eat real butter. The partially hydrogenated fats in "vegetable spreads" will kill you. (And Dr. Atkins was the first to warn me about the dangers of this, long before the public became aware of "Trans fats".) I use Best Foods/Hellman's mayo. It's made with all simple ingredients that I would use if I were making it from scratch (with the addition of one preservative at the end) I use the "regular" formula, because when I looked at the "Olive oil" one, it was full of chemicals I couldn't pronounce. In other words, it was no longer simply made from real foods.

The best thing you can do when choosing WHICH type of something to get is read the label. The more ingredients -- and the fewer of those ingredients that are something you have in your kitchen -- the more you want to avoid it. Dr. Atkins warned very strongly about the dangers of processed food. He insisted that as much as possible, we needed to be eating wholesome, nutrient-dense, WHOLE foods. Use that in your guideline.
You rocked! Nice post! Btw, off topic...but you know how passionate we are about this woe, and get soooo frustrated when people tell you your kidneys will explode, or it's sooo bad for your heart, or "I had a friend once who did that and she had to have kidney transplants because of it"( my fave pffft). Can you IMAGINE the constant frustration this poor man had every day of his life, being called a quack, and almost flat out being accused of trying to murder us for a quick buck??

Dr Atkins, looking up to the heavens, THANK YOU from the bottom of my healthier heart, THANK YOU.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Abby View Post
Forget the "Stix". Stick with 5-10 grams of carbohydrate daily, and you'll be fine.....

Good Luck,

You don't need to be THAT restrictive, esp if counting everything from eggs to Splenda packets in tea, even cheese and cream have carbs. Stick with 20 or less, follow the carb ladder, see where you cont to lose and where you stop...that's your magic number, you'll find it while you read DANDR
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:27 AM   #21
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Honestly, I'm a nurse..aka nursepoo. I have always assumed darker the better....see, it's not good to assume I guess. I will say if I over do it, or are naughty, ala a bout of popcornitis at the movies, I'm substantially lighter the next day, but one good day of super clean eating and I'm rocking dark purple again. If I stay at 20 it's a given I'm deep purple, if I carb ladder, which it don't do, but will give my self higher carb days...been doing this a while so kinda know my personal limits, then I may lighten. So you schooled me...I think lol
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:09 AM   #22
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For me, ketosis didn't necessarily help me lose fat when I upped my fat intake TOO MUCH! Calories do count because when I was adding coconut oil and eating fat bombs I stopped losing weight. I cut out the EXTRA fat and starting dropping lbs. again. 75/20/5 works well for me

Everyone is different!
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