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Old 03-06-2012, 02:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by grinch031 View Post
I don't see how some excess protein can lead to weight gain. Let's say you are not very active and need 80g of protein per day. If you eat 150g which is considered optimal for an athlete, then you have eaten 70g more than you need. Only 58% will convert to glucose at most, which is 40g. That is like one serving of pasta in an entire day. And combine that with the fact that protein is the most satiating macro-nutrient, and you are likely to consume less calories overall than if you under-eat protein.

The only time you really need to worry about protein over-consumption is if you are trying to stay in ketosis or maybe have a pre-existing kidney condition. But staying in ketosis is completely unnecessary if you are looking for weight loss or maintenance.
ITA, this has always been my thought process.

I have always taken my weight and divided by 2.2 to get my minimum total grams of protein per day. Your number will decrease as you lose weight unless you become an avid exerciser in which you may want to increase it.

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Old 03-06-2012, 02:19 PM   #32
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LISC, according to the recommendations by Dr. Kwasniewski, which I posted above, you would need the following:

5' 3" is 160 centimeters. Your due weight, according to Dr. Kwasniewski's plan is 60 Kg, plus or minus ten percent.

Your protein requirements would be 60 grams, plus or minus ten percent, giving you a range of 54 - 66 grams of PRO per day. An easy general measurement is that one ounce of cooked meat is 6 - 7 grams of PRO.

A piece of cooked meat the size of a deck of cards is about 3 ounces. That serving size gives 18 - 21 grams of protein.
An egg is about 6 grams of protein.
A one-inch cube of Swiss cheese has 6 - 7 grams of protein.

It takes a bit of attention to adjust oneself to keeping track of protein, just as it does to keeping track of carbs. After the adjustment phase, it's easy and simple, I find.

Hope this helps.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #33
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:54 PM   #34
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You rock.thank you. Sadly I'm one of those people that sometimes just needs someone else to say "hey..this is how it is" even if I know already or could figure it out on my own. You know what I mean? But thank you..ill start tracking this better...and start thinkjng of something else to snack on other than baked chicken ha
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:02 PM   #35
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LISC, I find it helps to have someone tell me the end result of the how-to's, as well.

I wish you success in finding the amounts of protein, fat, and carbs that fits you the best.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:57 PM   #36
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I wish you success in finding the amounts of protein, fat, and carbs that fits you the best.
This statement is so key to all of the various plans on this board. There is no perfect fit for everyone. It is trial and error.
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:05 PM   #37
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....ugh so 2 oz of steak (my breakfast) is 16 grams...and I just looked on the sausage I was going to make for me tomorrow and one link is 17 grams...ugh..I love meat...I feel so broken hearted now ha
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:12 PM   #38
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....ugh so 2 oz of steak (my breakfast) is 16 grams...and I just looked on the sausage I was going to make for me tomorrow and one link is 17 grams...ugh..I love meat...I feel so broken hearted now ha
What's wrong with that? That's roughly 1/2 a days worth if not less. If higher protein was working for you, keep working it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:19 PM   #39
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I have been averaging 95g of protein is this wrong? I weigh 158.

If you take my protein away what am I supposed to do? Be hungry? Because I'm not going to eat sticks of butter to make up those cals thats for sure!
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #40
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I have been averaging 95g of protein is this wrong? I weigh 158.

If you take my protein away what am I supposed to do? Be hungry? Because I'm not going to eat sticks of butter to make up those cals thats for sure!
This is the problem I had with the Optimal Diet. After reduced protein and low carb, nothing was left.
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #41
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Good point..it just seems like it will add up and get to 60 quick..I guess I'm just to the point where weight isn't flying off and I'm so close to my goal and want to be there by my wedding...ahh..just stressed ha. I'm going to my dress fitting on sat...please keep your fingers crossed that the dress still fits ha. I haven't gained but I feel like i have..again.paranoid...and ive been snacking on pork rinds a lot lately..so I'm all bloated.
Sorry...whining
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:23 PM   #42
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exactly

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This is the problem I had with the Optimal Diet. After reduced protein and low carb, nothing was left.
thats exactly what i was just thinking. if you dont have carbs and protein ... what the heck can you have (obviously fat, but how in an edible way!)

i just ate like 2 pounds of chicken breast!! =|
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:00 AM   #43
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To throw another wrench in the works...

I lose best and was my leanest on a high protein, moderate carb, moderate fat diet. I was aiming for 40/30/30 with a minimum of 120G PRO per day. I was also lifting, but not regularly or intensively.

Starting to think I need to go back to this...

Last edited by Chasintrail; 03-07-2012 at 06:06 AM.. Reason: Can't spell
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:05 AM   #44
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I have been averaging 95g of protein is this wrong? I weigh 158.

If you take my protein away what am I supposed to do? Be hungry? Because I'm not going to eat sticks of butter to make up those cals thats for sure!
No that is a reasonable amount. The max you would need as an athlete at your weight is around 150g, but if you are moderately active than 95g should be plenty.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:01 PM   #45
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So I guess my ? Is,yesterday according to ****** I had almost 80g of protein...how bad is that? Being almost 20gs over? I understand that I should aim for 60 but on days where protein is really all that's available to me,or all that I want..how bad am I screwing myself if my numbers are closer to 100? Im by no means a work out junkie but I do walk at least a mile a day and ride my stationary bike for at least 30 mins (busy with wedding junk,not a lot of time to workout) so I am a bit active..if that makes a difference. Sorry for being such a pain!
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:06 PM   #46
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So I guess my ? Is,yesterday according to ****** I had almost 80g of protein...how bad is that? Being almost 20gs over? I understand that I should aim for 60 but on days where protein is really all that's available to me,or all that I want..how bad am I screwing myself if my numbers are closer to 100? Im by no means a work out junkie but I do walk at least a mile a day and ride my stationary bike for at least 30 mins (busy with wedding junk,not a lot of time to workout) so I am a bit active..if that makes a difference. Sorry for being such a pain!
60 grams would be your minimum. Its not your limit. You can eat more if you want. At least that is the way I understand it. When I did the protein calculator it gave me the same number I get by dividing my weight by 2.2 and it said it was my minimum requirement for the day.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #47
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Yeah..I just did an online calculator and it was 86g another said 147..ha.I guess I'm going to stick to as close to 70-80 as I can and tweak and work on it from there. Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:44 PM   #48
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I've been reading the Eades blog as well as Mark's daily apple and whatever else I can find and make time for, but I don't seem to remember them saying much about limiting protein intake other than Eades saying 100-120 grams of protein is a good range (but that seems quite a bit higher than other experts recommend.)

Is anyone well familiar with what the experts say on this? Is there any real consensus? Is the science behind it pretty well understood?

Also, another thought that came to mind. It seems to me that our ancestors would've likely eaten more than 80 grams of protein per day, which is supposedly roughly my recommended amount based on my lean body weight - 230 lbs, 5" 10.5 (recommended weight 175 at the higher end of the spectrum, which I think I would fit in because I've always had a lot of muscle.)

By the way, I am losing weight at over 100 grams of protein a day. I am not losing at a very rapid pace, but nonetheless losing steadily. It's especially noticeable in the measurements.
The answer is going depend......a low-carb diet isn't necessarily a ketogenic diet. If being in ketosis is your goal, in addition to reducing carbohydrates, you may have to reduce protein intake as well.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:05 PM   #49
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Peter Attia updated his blog today and he said that when you eat more than 120-150g protein, measured ketone levels drop because the protein is converted to glucose. He was not very specific about this, but it seemed to make sense at the time. In any case, for me at least, 120g protein is way more than I would want to eat in a day. You can always add more oil or some cheese to stuff for more fat/calories! Still, I would like to see measured ketones and blood sugar levels after eating large portions of protein vs. after eating small % protein meals.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:07 AM   #50
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I'm with you on that

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Peter Attia updated his blog today and he said that when you eat more than 120-150g protein, measured ketone levels drop because the protein is converted to glucose. He was not very specific about this, but it seemed to make sense at the time. In any case, for me at least, 120g protein is way more than I would want to eat in a day. You can always add more oil or some cheese to stuff for more fat/calories! Still, I would like to see measured ketones and blood sugar levels after eating large portions of protein vs. after eating small % protein meals.
I'm with you on that.. I ate 130 the other day (according to *********) and it was a bit more than I wanted.. I could've done without the last can of tuna. I think eating over 150g of protein would be an ambitious proposition. I might be able to do it if alcohol consumption is involved
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by creseis View Post
Peter Attia updated his blog today and he said that when you eat more than 120-150g protein, measured ketone levels drop because the protein is converted to glucose. He was not very specific about this, but it seemed to make sense at the time. In any case, for me at least, 120g protein is way more than I would want to eat in a day. You can always add more oil or some cheese to stuff for more fat/calories! Still, I would like to see measured ketones and blood sugar levels after eating large portions of protein vs. after eating small % protein meals.
This isn't very scientific, but I had a strange experience about a year ago. I had been LC for about 4 months and my fasting blood sugar (I take 2 types of insulin) was generally about 90. Went out to dinner with DH and his family to a prime rib place. I had a small salad, 2 tsp of ranch dressing and an enormous piece of prime rib. When I looked at it I thought I needed to take at least 1/2 of it home. It probably weighed 16 oz. Well, as all the other people ate the potato, bread, and salad, I ate that entire piece of prime rib.

I don't recall what I ate the rest of the day but I know my blood sugar when I started dinner was 85. The next morning I woke up with a 120 reading. For breakfast and lunch I probably had 5 or 6 ounces of protein. My thoughts at the time were that the prime rib was so much protein that some of it had been converted to glucose. Of course, YMMV.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:33 AM   #52
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Dr. Richard Bernstein's newest edition of The Diabetes Solution, copyright 2011, has this on pages 180-181:

In order to maintain muscle mass, most physically active people should consume at least 1-1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of ideal body weight. (This would amount to 11.7 - 14 ounces of protein daily for a nonathletic individual whose ideal body weight is 155 pounds.) Athletes will require considerably more, as will growing children. A recent study reported that the average American adult eats about 1.5 grams of protein per 1 kilogram of body weight, daily, in spite of the usual sedentary lifestyle.[I/]

------




To estimate: a portion of meat the size of a deck of playing cards weighs about 3 ounces (red meats weigh about 3.7 ounces because of their greater density).

One ounce of uncooked protein food is about 6 grams of protein.


Second part paraphrased for brevity from page 180.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 03-08-2012 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:20 PM   #53
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The answer is going depend......a low-carb diet isn't necessarily a ketogenic diet. If being in ketosis is your goal, in addition to reducing carbohydrates, you may have to reduce protein intake as well.

You're absolutely right. I've gathered as much myself over the last few days. I guess through gluconeogenessis you can eventually produce enough glucose to raise insulin enough to kick you our of ketosis and sincie ketosis is using your own fat stores for energy, I definitely want to stay in that state. I just wonder how much protein a muscular 32 year old guy would need to consume to actually get to that point.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #54
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You're absolutely right. I've gathered as much myself over the last few days. I guess through gluconeogenessis you can eventually produce enough glucose to raise insulin enough to kick you our of ketosis and sincie ketosis is using your own fat stores for energy, I definitely want to stay in that state. I just wonder how much protein a muscular 32 year old guy would need to consume to actually get to that point.
My husband is 5'9" 185 about 7-8% bodyfat....very muscular In order for him to stay keto-adapted (measured by blood ketones, not urine) he has to keep carbs under 50g and protein at 0.8g per pound of lean body weight.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #55
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wow

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My husband is 5'9" 185 about 7-8% bodyfat....very muscular In order for him to stay keto-adapted (measured by blood ketones, not urine) he has to keep carbs under 50g and protein at 0.8g per pound of lean body weight.
7 to 8% body fat, isn't that what pro athletes go for?
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #56
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7 to 8% body fat, isn't that what pro athletes go for?
He trains like a bodybuilder and always has.....he incorporates some Crossfit Football into his workouts as well. He keeps himself pretty lean.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #57
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This is the problem I had with the Optimal Diet. After reduced protein and low carb, nothing was left.
We have this TUB of bacon fat my roommates have been saving to make bacon soap, I'm sure they wouldn't mind sending you some if you need extra fat!
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #58
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My husband is 5'9" 185 about 7-8% bodyfat....very muscular In order for him to stay keto-adapted (measured by blood ketones, not urine) he has to keep carbs under 50g and protein at 0.8g per pound of lean body weight.
I found that to be true when I did a brief stent of a ketogenic diet. I was doing about 60 grams of protein per day but would lose ketosis at maybe 80-90 grams.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:00 AM   #59
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I am going to begin tracking the amount of protein I actually consume - I might be a little on the light side....
Me too, I just caculated mine and it's around 65 grams a day. I hope that's not too much or too little.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:08 AM   #60
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I have been averaging 95g of protein is this wrong? I weigh 158.

If you take my protein away what am I supposed to do? Be hungry? Because I'm not going to eat sticks of butter to make up those cals thats for sure!
LOL! If what you are doing is working for you, then keep doing it. Don't try to drop protein if you are not gaining from it or stalled from it.
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