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Old 05-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #31
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Thanks for bumping this thread back up!

I have been staying moderately LC after a couple of months off plan, and re-reading Dr. Atkins DANDR and other info to keep myself LC and go back onto Induction for a bit. I have about 55-60 lbs to lose and getting into more detailed research is helping me stick with LC while those around me carb it up. I too have have fasting bs in the 110s to even 130's sometimes, though after meals is usually normal range. Since so much of my family has diabetes, I really REALLY don't want to go down that road, or at least postpone it for as long as possible!
It really helps to have more nitty gritty info like this. I will be checking into the podcasts mentioned as well.
Thanks all!
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisyHair View Post
I am bringing this back to the lobby because I am back on low carb after several months off. I gave up because 3 months in I still had no energy.

I now have had several AM blood glucose readings (fasting) over 130 and am sure I've got to figure this out for once and for all, not coming off again. Now it's my health at stake.

This is so hard for me (the lack of energy). I've also experienced several "graying out" times and totally blacked out and fallen twice (last year).

I am a week back in and working very hard on keeping up with my salt and other electrolytes.

Hopefully this old thread will help someone else going thru the same thing.

So many of us apparently take MUCH longer to get that energy and I think it needs to be out there.

Oh and well I've miss LCF so much!
I just listened to that podcast that you were posting about. I also just listened to another one with Peter Attia (number 560). It was really interesting because he was talking about how he had a VERY hard time getting into NK. He had very low energy, to the point of having a hard time standing. I think he said it took him 4 weeks to feel good. He said during that time that he felt best after a long, slow workout (for him that a several hour bike ride).
I just thought it was interesting that someone who was very fit could have this problem too.
He was also working directly with Volek and Phinney.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
He said that your body should get very efficient at using them and not be making them in excess....I have to say, I am very confused about this.
This is a bit confusing because the term "keto-adaptation" is somewhat misleading. "Keto-adaptation" doesn't actually refer to the body's use of "ketones" but rather to the adaptation that allows skeletal muscle to become able to directly burn fatty acids WITHOUT converting the fat to ketones. Most of the research on this adaptation comes from studies of total starvation, and the adaptation is called "the adaptation to starvation."

The restriction of dietary carbohydrates *mimics* total starvation in the sense that the liver changes the body's metabolism to become a primarily fat-burning engine when dietary carbohydrates are dramatically restricted. The *first stage* of the metabolic conversion -- when liver glycogen is depleted -- causes the liver to produce a large quantity of ketone bodies because the brain and skeletal muscle are not *instantly* able to directly burn fatty acids, so the fat has to be converted to ketones in order to be used as an energy source by skeletal muscle and the brain.

However, after a period of several weeks -- starvation studies show that the adaptation time period varies in different metabolisms, largely depending on the insulin sensitivity of the individual's skeletal muscle -- the adaptation process converts skeletal muscle cells and allows them to directly burn fatty acids so the body needs to produce fewer ketones -- AND because skeletal muscle is pulling large quantities of fatty acids directly from the bloodstream, fewer fatty acids are available to be converted to ketones in the liver. So, once the process of keto-adaptation is completed, the body will produce fewer ketone bodies.

Here is a really cool article by an old school scientist that discusses the adaptation to starvation -- and he tells some very interesting stories. Including this detail about infants that is almost never mentioned in discussions of the health implication of ketosis:
Not well known, however, is the metabolism of the human newborn, which is essentially ketotic. Blood glucose levels fall strikingly in the neonate, and concentrations of βOHB may rise to 2–3mM. The new born human brain consumes 60%–70% of total metabolism at birth, nearly half via β-hydroxybutyrate.
Fuel metabolism in starvation.
http://www.med.upenn.edu/timm/docume...8-9Lazar-1.pdf
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:08 PM   #34
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I also meant to point out that although skeletal muscle will adapt and become able to directly burn fatty acids, the brain will never be able to directly burn fatty acids so the liver continues to produce ketone bodies in order to feed the brain. After the full adaptation is complete, between 65-75% of the brain will be fed by ketones while the remaining 25-35% of the brain will continue to be fed by glucose.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:01 PM   #35
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My blood sugar has been remarkably stable since keto-adaptation which I believe for me might have taken 8 weeks. I had a few issues with low blood sugar and heavy endurance exercise causing it to plummet. But in the last 4 weeks, with weight training and low intensity exercise, my blood sugar has remained in the excellent range, and has never dropped to high or too low. I am very happy about this and wonder if maybe LC was the way we were meant to eat. 8)
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:01 PM   #36
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I just remembered that Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek have a good explanation of the process of keto-adaptation, within the context of a low-carb diet, in their book, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance:
Once the process of keto-adaptation is complete (which takes from a few weeks to a month), muscle both at rest and during exercise comes to rely heavily on fatty acids. This adaptation of the muscle away from ketone use spares hepatic ketone production for use by other tissues, especially the brain.

This is a key point. Practically speaking, the brain can burn only glucose or ketones. On a very low carbohydrate diet, the brain comes to rely on ketones as its primary fuel. Although ketones are preferentially taken up by the brain, because of the large mass of skeletal muscle and the increase in blood flow to active muscles during exercise, this delayed shift of the muscles away from ketones and toward fatty acid use is vital to preserving fuel flow to the brain during exercise in the keto-adapted athlete. In part, the time it takes the body to choreograph these changes in whole body fuel flow explain why keto-adaptation takes a couple of weeks rather than just a few hours or days.

From chapter 3 of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, "A Tectonic Shift in Thinking"
I find the starvation studies SUPER interesting! But Phinney and Volek are more relevant to the context of keto-adaptation on a low-carb diet.
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