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Old 02-01-2012, 05:23 AM   #1
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Anyone doing the Rosedale diet?

I heard Dr. Rosedale talk about his diet on a podcast and thought he had some interesting stuff to say (mostly about leptin) and the proper amounts of protein. He suggests that many people are eating too much protein and that this can actually be unhealthy.

So I was hoping to get opinions.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #2
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I did read his book a few yeas ago. To be honest I have read so many diet books that I have forgotten the details of this one. After reading his book I went on to do the South beach because I thought it would be easer to follow. It may have been but it did not work for me.
Sorry I can't really give you an opinion but I am interested is what others may say.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
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How much did he say was 'too much'? I'm curious because ProteinPower is one of my favorite books (and plans), and Dr. Eades argues that most low carbers don't get enough protein (since the body needs more in the absence of carbs).

I find it challenging to get in the amount recommended for me. So unless someone is eating really enormous portions, it seems odd that they'd be getting 'too much.'
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:21 AM   #4
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How much did he say was 'too much'? I'm curious because ProteinPower is one of my favorite books (and plans), and Dr. Eades argues that most low carbers don't get enough protein (since the body needs more in the absence of carbs).
In the interview, a caller asked exactly your question. He compared his recommendations for protein to Eades' and stated that Eades recommendation would be the upper limit of his own. They are not that far apart, although the Eades say their calculation is the LOWER limit, while it's the upper limit for Rosedale.

You should listen to the podcast, I can't remember his calculation exactly, but I think it was about 2/3 to 3/4 of the usual recommendation. His theory is that excess protein is turned into glucose (through gluconeogenesis), so it's counterproductive. I'm actually relieved as I've been having a hard time getting in the recommended amount of protein too. I've cut back on pushing that, not sure if it's making any difference since I've been in an epic stall anyway.

He also recommended limiting saturated fat, and on JM's forum I asked why. He replied that he only recommends limiting it for the first few weeks until you're firmly into ketosis, because if you're eating dietary saturated fat, the body will use that first before it starts to burn off your own stores. After you are firmly in ketosis, saturated fat is OK becasue your metabolism is primed to burn fat.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:58 PM   #5
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Gary Taubes talks about gluconeogensis in his book also.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:59 PM   #6
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By his reasoning, the excess protein is only a problem if it's excess calories.


The body uses glucose as it's primary fuel source, so if I'm not eating enough fat or carbs to provide sufficient glucose, using protein [gluconeogenesis] isn't a problem--in fact, it's the body's last choice because it's more difficult to convert than carbs (easiest) or fat.

It's really moot for me because although I emphasize protein in my eating, eat very low carb, and only moderate fat, I rarely get to the Eades' recommended amount.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #7
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I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds like the opposite of the Leptin Reset advice. I'm not saying that's bad, just making a note of it.

I recently read The Mood Cure, which emphasized the importance of having protein at every meal. Does the Rosedale diet tell you to divide your protein among your three meals?
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:59 PM   #8
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I know 2 people that are on Rosedale - and they love it.
Limited protein - lots of veggies - lots of good fats including avocados and nuts and LC tortillas and bread. They have both lost over 30 lbs - lowered their blood sugar and say they feel great.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:05 AM   #9
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I also have a problem getting enough protein. I try and I dont seem to be eating enough. I've gotten suggestions, but still doesnt seem to be enough.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:51 AM   #10
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The question is how much is the adequate amount of protein? Dr. Rosedale claims too much protein is

Quote:
a liability and tries to burn it off as sugar. This is a very unhealthy way to live and can be easily avoided by keeping a within normal range of protein intake.
I have seen this many times and have not been able to determine with certainty, just how accurate it is and what in the proper amount of protein?

According to his own words ....

Quote:
On average, you want to have approximately one gram of protein for every kilogram of lean body mass (that is, the weight of your body minus the fat - we all have some fat). The easiest way to calculate your daily protein requirement is to take your ideal weight in kilograms (that is, what you would like to weigh if you could weigh anything) and have roughly one gram of protein per kilogram, minus 10%. For example, if you were a woman who is 5.4 ft (165 centimeters) tall, your ‘ideal’ weight would likely be in the neighborhood of 110 lbs (50 kilograms). Thus, your protein intake per day should be somewhere around the 50g - 10% = 45 grams of protein, split approximately evenly between meals. If you have an especially active lifestyle, you can add 5-10 grams or so. An egg is roughly 6-8g of protein and a piece of meat the size of a deck of cards is around 15. Remember this is 15 grams of protein; the meat will weigh much more as it also has water and fat, so we are not talking about the 'weight' of the meat, but the protein grams. This doesn’t have to be exact, but it’s a good ballpark figure to keep in mind when you’re eating. Males will have a little more, if you are pregnant you would add about 5 grams as well.
Due to the intermittent fasting, I would frequently fall in that range, it would all be at one meal and even then, I would sometimes go over. I wonder if this could be my problem?

If this is accurate information and 'overeating' protein causes it to be converted to glucose, would not a b.g. meter detect this?

On a side note, I am visiting a 'diet clinic' today to see if I can get to help with my epic stall. Hope I am pleasingly surprised.....
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:26 AM   #11
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Interesting information. What are his recommendations regarding fat?

Let us know how it goes at the "diet clinic."
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:43 AM   #12
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Hi,

I was pre-diabetic and lowered my HbA1c to normal range within 6 weeks of being on the Rosedale, my cholesterol and lipids are in super range. I'm really sold on this one. Reading the book was my first big read on understanding leptin, insulin, glucose and I think getting a handle on the science was the key for me. Yes I watch the protein and practice portion control, I am still satisfied with plenty of veggies like sauteed cabbage, brussels, broccoli, swiss chard, etc.

If I have a eat-cheat and gain, I go on to Rosedale "induction" and lose it quite fast. Last week after AFC game I was up 7 lbs on Monday and by Friday it was gone.

Nancy
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:25 AM   #13
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"On a side note, I am visiting a 'diet clinic' today to see if I can get to help with my epic stall. Hope I am pleasingly surprised....."

Well, I'm really curious how this is going to go, so let us know. A friend was all set to try a famous weight clinic at a university until she looked online at some of their patient education material. Same old same old. Cut calories and fat, exercise more, eat plenty of whole grains. Take meds to deal with BP, cholesterol, and blood sugar issues that are the inevitable result of our dietary advice. Exercise some more.

Student dieticians have to learn this baloney somewhere!
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:41 AM   #14
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Cathy, I am always so impressed with your knowledge.
I bet you know more about weight loss than the people
at the diet clinic! I am curious too!
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #15
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Thank you Annabel. So much has to be credited to this forum and so many really smart low carb friends that are so willing to share. It has been a wealth of information!

So the weight loss clinic was low carb and low fat. I knew this prior but despite my dislike of this approach, I thought they may have something to offer and indeed I do think I got something useful out of it. But I paid for it by having to listen to the unadulterated crap info to go with it.

So before telling the fine doctor that I do an Atkins program (only said low carb), I showed him my weight loss chart and asked him if he comes across this with his patients. He said it was quite common and the solution is to build muscle with strength training and cardio. He said his patients begin to lose again.

This makes sense to me for a number of reasons but the most significant one is that muscle definitely has a lot to do with weight loss and weight management as the preferred fuel is fat and I mean body fat!!

So I am off to blow up my yoga ball (core training) and digging out my weights.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #16
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Well, that will be fabulous if all it takes is some exercise and you will start losing weight again! It's easy and it's free, and you can do it anytime in the privacy of your own home. Can't beat that. Good luck! I know you don't want to have to change anything about how you eat, supplements, etc. so this would be a godsend answer to your prayers. Keeping fingers crossed for you!
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:01 PM   #17
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Well, that will be fabulous if all it takes is some exercise and you will start losing weight again! It's easy and it's free, and you can do it anytime in the privacy of your own home. Can't beat that. Good luck! I know you don't want to have to change anything about how you eat, supplements, etc. so this would be a godsend answer to your prayers. Keeping fingers crossed for you!
SoHappy, thank you for your kind thoughts and wishes. I am sitting on my stabilizer ball as we 'speak'. It's kinda of fun!!

I just wanted to point out that I have changed quite a bit about how I eat and the supplements that I take. I have done so as the information search leads me to what makes sense scientifically and taking in consideration of my personal tolerances etc. As much as I dislike my lack of weight loss, it has afforded me the opportunity to learn and understand nutrition and it's health effects. None of this journey has been wasted time and despite some frustration, I have enjoyed it immensely.

Long story short, I am a happy camper with out the carbs.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:23 PM   #18
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SoHappy, thank you for your kind thoughts and wishes. I am sitting on my stabilizer ball as we 'speak'. It's kinda of fun!!

I just wanted to point out that I have changed quite a bit about how I eat and the supplements that I take. I have done so as the information search leads me to what makes sense scientifically and taking in consideration of my personal tolerances etc. As much as I dislike my lack of weight loss, it has afforded me the opportunity to learn and understand nutrition and it's health effects. None of this journey has been wasted time and despite some frustration, I have enjoyed it immensely.

Long story short, I am a happy camper with out the carbs.
Picturing you. Cracking up! I want a stabilizer ball!

Edited: I remember you have always said that carbs do not do a good thing for you! Hopefully this will be all that you need to nudge weight loss into happening again!

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Old 02-02-2012, 12:45 PM   #19
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He said it was quite common and the solution is to build muscle with strength training and cardio. He said his patients begin to lose again.
That DOES make a lot of sense and is very different from "exercise til you drop to burn more calories than you take in". Lean muscle mass is much more efficient for your metabolism.

And at least they do low carb. You can take their advice about fat with a grain of salt, you're smart enough to know better.

Much better than the clinic my friend was looking at.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:08 PM   #20
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That DOES make a lot of sense and is very different from "exercise til you drop to burn more calories than you take in". Lean muscle mass is much more efficient for your metabolism.

And at least they do low carb. You can take their advice about fat with a grain of salt, you're smart enough to know better.

Much better than the clinic my friend was looking at.
I agree but I have to say it was pretty hard to listen to some of the things he had to say because it was so inaccurate and demonstrated his lack of knowledge of the basic science behind low carb. I wanted to pull out a hardcopy of good cal/bad cal and hit him over the head!

He sure bad mouthed the Atkins woe actually lied about it. I decided there was no point in trying to have a conversation about it cause I wasn't coming back anyway....

Oh and did I mention that they are also low sodium!! I would say as a plan, it is designed to torture for no good reason....

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Old 02-02-2012, 02:47 PM   #21
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Was this a free standing "diet clinic" or one associated with a university? When I looked up that clinic for a friend, I was surprised that an institution of higher learning is ignoring all the cutting edge research and rehashing the same old advice, when there is ample evidence IT DOESN'T WORK!!!! A university has the opportunity to be cutting edge.

A free-standing diet clinic has no incentive to try something new. If it doesn't work, all they have to say is you weren't compliant and count the success rate only of those whom they think are compliant.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:17 PM   #22
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I actually met with Dr. Rosedale a number of years ago. He was one of the first doctors that enlightened me on this way of life. Many things he told me years ago are becoming mainstream now. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. Following his plan I lost a lot of weight. I unfortunately gained it back (and then some.) But it was all my fault by going off plan. I have now lost 70lbs. and still losing. My needs have changed since seeing Dr. Rosedale. So I am following his plan but incorporating things from other plans as well.
I cannot eat the amount of protein that Eades recommend (although I have a lot of respect for them as well.). Dr.Rosedale told me to eat 65 grams and to split it up and not eat more than 15 grams at one meal. Then take the 15 grams left and divide that up into two snacks. That works for me. I eat a lot of healthy fats and feel great.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:52 AM   #23
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Thank you for sharing that Fran. I do think his plan is pretty good and as you say, he has been advocating it for about 20 years. He is not the first but he was definitely right and fighting against the conventional wisdom at it's peak.

I do think that his explanation as to why to limit protein is interesting and I have more research to do but think he may have something to say that applies to me. Thanks again!
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:23 AM   #24
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Did anyone end up trying this plan?
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post

So before telling the fine doctor that I do an Atkins program (only said low carb), I showed him my weight loss chart and asked him if he comes across this with his patients. He said it was quite common and the solution is to build muscle with strength training and cardio. He said his patients begin to lose again.

This makes sense to me for a number of reasons but the most significant one is that muscle definitely has a lot to do with weight loss and weight management as the preferred fuel is fat and I mean body fat!!

So I am off to blow up my yoga ball (core training) and digging out my weights.
Yup. Yup. and Yup. It's that whole 80/20 thing. You'd be surprised how much 20 does.... See also - the post the other day with progress pic in it. He only lost a few pounds but body fat went way down.

I really wish we measured health/fitness based on bf% than scale weight!
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:02 AM   #26
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Well that was another thing that has not proved to be of any help to weight loss.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:48 AM   #27
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Cathy,

I'm sorry it didn't work for you.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:10 AM   #28
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"Saturated fats are generally (but not always) slightly harder to burn (a big exception being coconut oil, which is very healthy for you) but as your body becomes better and better at it by practicing on easy unsaturated fats, you are welcome to consume more advanced fats with the confidence that your body will know what to do with it. People do not become fat because they eat fat. They become fat because they cannot burn it.Through this eating plan, you can." Above quoted from Rosedale's book.


He says we eat too much omega 6 when we eat grain fed animal proteins and therefore are going to have a hard time burning our body fat. He also mentions that we should limit the protein and not eat large amounts of it at one meal.

What do you all think?

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Old 07-20-2012, 07:14 AM   #29
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I would like to see some supporting evidence. I do think he likely on the right track though.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:32 AM   #30
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"Saturated fats are generally (but not always) slightly harder to burn (a big exception being coconut oil, which is very healthy for you) but as your body becomes better and better at it by practicing on easy unsaturated fats, you are welcome to consume more advanced fats with the confidence that your body will know what to do with it. People do not become fat because they eat fat. They become fat because they cannot burn it.Through this eating plan, you can." Above quoted from Rosedale's book.


He says we eat too much omega 6 when we eat grain fed animal proteins and therefore are going to have a hard time burning our body fat. He also mentions that we should limit the protein and not eat large amounts of it at one meal.

What do you all think?
This is interesting - a couple of years ago, i went on a 'no meat' diet for about a month. I did lose some weight, not a lot though - and even though I wasn't really tracking calories, I wasn't denying myself the things i wanted (like pasta, sweets, etc), so calorically I think I was eating the same. Also - my sugar cravings completely disappeared. That right there was the biggest thing for me because I'm a sugar fiend. I may try to reincorporate some of these things again (but with LC veggies and no fruit) to see if this helps.

*I should add that I remember losing the 'curve' in my thighs (less hourglass figure) from not eating meat. I'm not sure if that was muscle loss though as I don't remember if I was still a gym rat in those days.
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