Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Main Lowcarb Lobby
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2012, 03:29 AM   #1
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 115
Gallery: grinch031
Stats: 196/179/175
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: 11/24/2011
whole grains

Has anyone tried a diet where they cut out refined carbohydrates and sugars, but continued to eat a significant dose of whole grains and fruits?

If so, did you have any problems with overeating/portion control like many of us have with refined carbs and sugar?

What I'm really trying to figure out is how much of overeating is due to carbs in general as opposed to just sugar and refined carbs. How much distinction should we make betwen them? What are your experiences?
grinch031 is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 01-26-2012, 03:37 AM   #2
Senior LCF Member
 
Galveston Gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Galveston Island, TX
Posts: 473
Gallery: Galveston Gal
Stats: 5'0"
WOE: Low Carb/High Fat
After I read the book "Wheat Belly" I had a whole different perspective on 'whole grains'.

The elimination of wheat from my food plan has eliminated cravings for me.
Just the joy of having that gone, I can concentrate on healthy choices!

Just food for thought.....
Galveston Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 03:41 AM   #3
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,625
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
This is a very individual issue, depending on a person's sensitivity to carbs.

Dr. Atkins had always advised low carb eaters to find their 'critical carbohydrate level' (CCL) which is the point at which appetite is stimulated and gaining occurs because of the increased insulin response.

When I first did this more than 30 years ago, my CCL was about 25g, and it remains that even today. I can exceed 25g carbs on green vegetables only and still experience hunger and weight gain.

Most people are not that sensitive, but it's unique to each person.

Interestingly, although I regularly eat very low carb because of my CCL, my body seems to thrive on this WOE, so I suspect that our CCL actually reflects what's 'healthy' for the individual.
Leo41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 04:40 AM   #4
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,880
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
All I can say is that when whole grains (grains of any sort) enter my woe, I become a disgusting mess. I have known it for quite some time but after reading Wheat Belly, it became much clearer, why.
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 05:09 AM   #5
Senior LCF Member
 
fsfty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 252
Gallery: fsfty
Stats: 265/184/184 6'2" Start 6/9/11, Goal 12/9/11
WOE: Lifetime Maintenance
Start Date: June 9, 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch031 View Post
Has anyone tried a diet where they cut out refined carbohydrates and sugars, but continued to eat a significant dose of whole grains and fruits?

If so, did you have any problems with overeating/portion control like many of us have with refined carbs and sugar?

What I'm really trying to figure out is how much of overeating is due to carbs in general as opposed to just sugar and refined carbs. How much distinction should we make betwen them? What are your experiences?
I am now in maintenance, and have added fruits and brown rice without any issues at all. I am able to maintain my weight and there is no change in my appetite or desire for refined carbs. Of course, everyone is different
fsfty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:48 AM   #6
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Becky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 3,174
Gallery: Becky
Stats: 174.8/171.4/140...48 years old
WOE: JUDDD :)
Start Date: Start date: September 10, 2014
I have major issues with wheat, whole or otherwise so I'll probably never eat wheat in any shape or form for quite awhile.
Becky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:53 AM   #7
Major LCF Poster!
 
theredhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,584
Gallery: theredhead
Stats: 229/152/150
WOE: Atkins/hCG/maintaining EASILY with JUDDD
Start Date: 09/04/03
The plan you're describing sounds like South Beach. I know a lot of people do well on that plan, and of course, others don't.
theredhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:24 AM   #8
Senior LCF Member
 
SeaMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 662
Gallery: SeaMaiden
WOE: Low Carb/Gluten-Free/No Aspartame or Sucralose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston Gal View Post
After I read the book "Wheat Belly" I had a whole different perspective on 'whole grains'.

The elimination of wheat from my food plan has eliminated cravings for me.
Just the joy of having that gone, I can concentrate on healthy choices!

Just food for thought.....
I agree! I haven't read "Wheat Belly" yet, but after being diagnosed with gluten intolerance almost 3 years ago, I have discovered the less grains I eat (even gluten free grains) the better I feel and the less I crave sugar...

When I eat grains my sugar cravings grow and grow...
SeaMaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:33 AM   #9
Senior LCF Member
 
Kalania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 347
Gallery: Kalania
Stats: (210)200/165
WOE: Low Sugar/Wheat
Start Date: restart January 1st 2012
I'm going to agree with the above posters, suggest you read Wheat Belly, then go on to say that whole grains are junk and addictive.
Kalania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #10
Gadget Gal
 
Charski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mostly in the kitchen!
Posts: 39,902
Gallery: Charski
Stats: 174 (WW)/145/150 goal 5'5"
WOE: ATKINS, or a slight variation thereof
Start Date: May 2003
Our bodies are NOT sufficiently adapted to digesting grains, which in the evolutionary calendar, are a fairly recent addition to our food source. So it's not too surprising that such a large number of people have problems eating them.

I try to avoid grains as much as possible. I DO like quinoa, which is actually a pseudo-grain, in that it's not a grass - it's closely related to beets, spinach, and tumbleweeds! I can eat it without problems.

The only grains I eat tend to be sprouted grains, like Ezekiel bread, which renders them digestible for the human body.
__________________
It's easy to be miserable. Being happy takes more work. ~~from Ondine, the movie~~

Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck.

I reject your reality and substitute my own! ~~ Adam on Mythbusters
Charski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 09:21 AM   #11
Senior LCF Member
 
priori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 389
Gallery: priori
Start Date: 1/15/13
I just dont see the need to add in grains of any kind.
priori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 01:30 PM   #12
Senior LCF Member
 
Taxbane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Longwood, FL
Posts: 830
Gallery: Taxbane
Stats: LBS:215/171/160- - -BF%: 35+/20/11
WOE: 1650 kcals (55 NC/160P/88F) Str Train x2 Wk.
Start Date: December 2010
IMO, "whole grains" is just the cereal industry's "spin" to make something sound healthy, by saying well at least its not 100% digestible like the processed stuff...

If you need that bread texture though, there is always Carbquick, Carbalose, OMMs (one minute muffins), etc... Flatout Foldouts, Touyaflan Pitawraps, La tortillia factory low carb tortillias, etc...
Taxbane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #13
Blabbermouth!!!
 
afuentes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 5,099
Gallery: afuentes
Stats: 188/145/130 - I am 5'6"
WOE: Primal/low carb with weight training
Start Date: honest restart - 11/20/08
I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston Gal View Post
After I read the book "Wheat Belly" I had a whole different perspective on 'whole grains'.

The elimination of wheat from my food plan has eliminated cravings for me.
Just the joy of having that gone, I can concentrate on healthy choices!

Just food for thought.....
This is me. I knew Grains didn't agree with me but, wow! I recommend "Wheat Belly" to everyone.
afuentes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 11:25 PM   #14
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 832
Gallery: Doug K
Stats: 229/195/140; goal: 30" waist (5'4" tall)
WOE: Atkins OWL
Start Date: April 2011
Somewhere I read that sugar addicts, like me, have the same basic chemical addiction as alcoholics, ie, to the same foods, but we're addicted to them in their non-fermented state. That resonates with my own experience as a junk food junkie. So when I think of adding foods that are higher on the Atkins carb ladder, I can imagine adding beans, for instance, because I've never heard of a culture that's figured out how to turn the carbs into booze. I currently eat berries and pumpkin, but I'd stay away from fruits that are used to make cider or wine. I don't plan on adding back wheat, rice, corn, or potatoes. The only thing they have going for them is, they're the cheapest calories you can buy.

The most grain-like thing in my kitchen is ground flax seed meal. I use it to make Dottie's Paleo Pancakes.
__________________
March 3, 2011: hemoglobin A1C 6.3 / October 25, 2011, after six months of LC: hemoglobin A1C 5.0
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them, a Desire, a Dream, a Vision. -- Mohammad Ali
Doug K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 04:49 AM   #15
Old Wise One
 
jezzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hudson River Valley
Posts: 45,362
Gallery: jezzie
Stats: choosing to be scale-free;
WOE: (48% C; 33% Fat; 19% P; )
Start Date: 11/22/11 - MediterrAsian, Flexitarian, Oz-ish

When I did Atkins I didn't lose weight if I ate whole grains.

What seemed to work For Me for weight loss was 30 total gr. carbs
(not net), and a fat % of about 80.

Health-wise my body has no problem with whole grains.
jezzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 04:57 AM   #16
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 115
Gallery: grinch031
Stats: 196/179/175
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: 11/24/2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalania View Post
I'm going to agree with the above posters, suggest you read Wheat Belly, then go on to say that whole grains are junk and addictive.
Yeah I'm curious to get a consensus of real people because of critics who say that Wheat Belly uses bogus science. I know that I had major problems with refined carbs, but never put whole grains to the test. I figure save myself the time and just cut everything out for now.
grinch031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 05:04 AM   #17
Senior LCF Member
 
happyheart1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: tennessee
Posts: 378
Gallery: happyheart1
Stats: 218/144/150
WOE: Maintaining since 10/5/09
Start Date: 7/06/07
This is a definite YMMV issue. As long as I eat suffcient protein with my carbs, I can eat most carbs, except highly processed foods. Fruits tend to give me a lot more problems than whole grains, but I can eat fruit in small amounts. This has worked for me during weightloss & maintenance. My suggestion would be to experiment & find what works best for you. Good Luck!
happyheart1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 05:12 AM   #18
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,880
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
No offense intended for anyone here or that is reading but I would like to point out that many of us use to be able to eat just about anything with no problem. At least that was what we thought.

I use to eat whole wheat bread (a staple) with out problem for years. No digestive issues, no weight problem - no problem - at least that is what I thought. I believe it had a cumulative effect so even if you don't have a problem that you can detect now, it may catch up to you. And trying to turn that train wreck around can be an exercise in frustration that can be quite disheartening.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!

Last edited by clackley; 01-27-2012 at 05:21 AM..
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 05:18 AM   #19
Senior LCF Member
 
Kalania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 347
Gallery: Kalania
Stats: (210)200/165
WOE: Low Sugar/Wheat
Start Date: restart January 1st 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch031 View Post
Yeah I'm curious to get a consensus of real people because of critics who say that Wheat Belly uses bogus science. I know that I had major problems with refined carbs, but never put whole grains to the test. I figure save myself the time and just cut everything out for now.
I know that its been shown for awhile that wheat is detrimental to blood sugar levels and that its certainly addictive. Ever munched on cereal and found that you can keep eating and eating and eating....long past when you "should" be full? Ever had a box of girl scout cookies and finished the box in one sitting?
Kalania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 05:53 AM   #20
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
stardustshadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 3,338
Gallery: stardustshadow
Stats: 248.6/163/150
WOE: VLC/IF
Start Date: July 5th 2010 (Atkins)
I have a stronger blood sugar reaction to wheat than I do to sugar.
stardustshadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #21
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
There are reasons other than blood sugar, insulin levels or weight for avoiding grains. The various protein gliadins, and lectins are damaging to many folks, even those without celiac disease or gluten intolerance.

Stone fruits and citrus cause problems for many. All plants have phytotoxins to protect themselves.

Dr. Kurt Harris' blog, Archevore, gives a sound diet with more carbs.

Hope this helps a bit.
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #22
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
PaminKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,363
Gallery: PaminKY
From Wheat Belly:

Glycemic index of:
white bread - 69
whole grain bread - 72
Shredded Wheat cereal - 67

Sucrose (table sugar) - 59

Mars bar - 68
Snickers bar - 41

Not pseudo-science at all. Other than a few differences in points this is what other glycemic charts say, even the one of the South Beach Diet website.
PaminKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:06 PM   #23
Major LCF Poster!
 
lterry913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,964
Gallery: lterry913
Stats: 5' 11" 238/174/170
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: 12/1/2010
After reading Wheat Belly I have to wonder if there is such a thing as a whole grain.
I eat as little grain as possible due to the fact that sugar and grains are trigger food for me.
As the doctor explains in his book as listed above the gi of white versus whole grain bread is no different or worse than eating table sugar...maybe the fiber in whole grain will make you feel fuller but the fact it still has a high gi index remains the same...so ultimately I guess its up to you how often or how much you want to eat. Good luck in you weight loss endeavors.
__________________
Control breeds Confidence.

Being fat is Hard...Dieting is Hard... Pick your hard

Live, Laugh, Love and...LEARN from mistakes

65 pounds lost so far and not looking back

Last edited by lterry913; 01-27-2012 at 12:08 PM..
lterry913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:07 PM   #24
Senior LCF Member
 
skaylarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 626
Gallery: skaylarson
Stats: 199/183/145
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: again on 12/31/07 again on 1/7/2012
I will have to read Wheat Belly. I've known now since my first Atkins go, that I thrive on the no/low carb WOE. All my IBS symptoms practically vanish within those first 3 days.

now everyone seems to be on a glutten free kick. My doc asked if I wanted to be tested..my response? No...there are foods "okay" on a glutten free diet at wreak havoc with my system.

I think the key is (as is summarize by all these posts) all of us are different. All of us can tolerate one thing and not the other. The Key is to (if you're doing ATkins) to climb that carb ladder. Follow it to the T to determine your limit.

I think the answer is your body and how you function, how you react, etc.

In talking with nutrition and exercise folks recently, my comment is... I know you're going to tell me I need "healthy grains" and my answer for you is this..Thank you for your advise but I will continue on my WOE.

Maybe one day, when I'm at a solid weight and my exericse is in maintenance and all that, I may consider if (in the next 2 years) "they" say those grains are good for you. Otherwise, for me??? No thank you.

good luck. It's tough because sometimes we want someone to say "yeah, go ahead" so we have the nod to eat something we know isn't "good" for us.

So listen to your body, track what you're eating and ultimatlely, your answer will be with you.

Good luck..hope that didn't sound too pontificating (right word)?
Sharon
__________________
Sharon
199/178/170 - restarted Jan 7 2012

170 is my first goal. This will bring me to a 30 BMI.
160 will be my next goal..No date...just a goal
skaylarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #25
Senior LCF Member
 
SeaMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 662
Gallery: SeaMaiden
WOE: Low Carb/Gluten-Free/No Aspartame or Sucralose
Actually, I think it's good to be tested for gluten intolerance or celiac because even though we might know we do better without it wheat/gluten or other carbs if we have celiac we can even get sick from just cross-contaimination in restaurants and stuff. But that's just my own humble opinion.
SeaMaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #26
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
PaminKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,363
Gallery: PaminKY
Wheat Belly is a great book but he stresses that all those new products on the market shelves that tout the "GLUTEN-FREE" label can be just as bad as the real thing. This is the products that have replaced the wheat flour with cornstarch, rice starch, potato starch, or tapioca starch.

These products do not trigger the immune or neurological response of wheat gluten but they will still trigger the glucose-insulin response that causes you to gain weight. Wheat products increase blood sugar and insulin more than most other foods, but remember: Foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, potato starch and tapioca starch are among the few foods that increase blood sugar even more than wheat products.
(page 72)
PaminKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #27
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 296
Gallery: Mazzie
WOE: Low Carb with IF + Exercise
Start Date: 1/1/12
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaminKY View Post
From Wheat Belly:

Glycemic index of:
white bread - 69
whole grain bread - 72
Shredded Wheat cereal - 67

Sucrose (table sugar) - 59

Mars bar - 68
Snickers bar - 41
I'm currently reading Wheat Belly and that absolutely blew my mind. I believed the "healthy whole grains" thing and had no idea they spike blood sugar more than even a super sweet Snickers bar. It helps explain the cravings and feeling like I was still on the blood sugar roller coaster when I ate them.
Mazzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #28
Senior LCF Member
 
SeaMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 662
Gallery: SeaMaiden
WOE: Low Carb/Gluten-Free/No Aspartame or Sucralose
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaminKY View Post
Wheat Belly is a great book but he stresses that all those new products on the market shelves that tout the "GLUTEN-FREE" label can be just as bad as the real thing. This is the products that have replaced the wheat flour with cornstarch, rice starch, potato starch, or tapioca starch.

These products do not trigger the immune or neurological response of wheat gluten but they will still trigger the glucose-insulin response that causes you to gain weight. Wheat products increase blood sugar and insulin more than most other foods, but remember: Foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, potato starch and tapioca starch are among the few foods that increase blood sugar even more than wheat products.
(page 72)
I can vouch for this! Before I started lowcarbing and when I was diagnosed with gluten intolerance, I thought woo hoo.. I can eat patries, rice, pasta, potatoes.... everything... as long as it's gluten/wheat free... well, even though my stomach didn't hurt, eating those gluten free things, made me gain 20 lbs in less than a year!

So I still have to watch my carbs... even if they're gluten free... and all in all, I do better without rice, g/f pasta and grains anyway...
SeaMaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #29
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
jem51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: south central OR
Posts: 3,644
Gallery: jem51
Stats: oh so happy at 120
WOE: Mine, all mine
Start Date: controlled carb '97-98
Whether you read Wheat Belly or not, the decision is individual.
Some do well adding bread/starch and have less problems w binging. Others, not so much.
It really is YMMV.
jem51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 01:45 PM   #30
Senior LCF Member
 
HotMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 589
Gallery: HotMommy
Stats: 5'8 175/127/120-133
WOE: LC primal
Start Date: About 5 years ago
I didn't have any problems eating whole wheat thin bread sandwich's at school when I had to pack a lunch, nor breaded seafood, chicken or onion rings. Also banana's and melons. I also to this day eat BBQ wings and other "off limit" foods and condiments. I believe I handle carbs well, I experience no negative side effects unless I go over 150 or so carbs, so like some said it is an individual thing I just try to make the "right" choices 80% of the time or I get so bored I can't stand it. My new primal WOE advises strongly against grains, especially whole since they may be worse than refined, but every once in a while...how much damage is a occasional treat going to do? Now fruit, though, love it! I ate a banana everyday for a year in Beauty school (easy to pack!) along with my thin bread sandwich and lost a few lbs. Experiment and find what works for you
__________________
HotMommy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.