LC and our liver

[sophiethecat]

I was wondering if it's harder on the liver to process high fats and proteins than carbs?

I've read some of these low carb books but can't remember what they say about if low carb puts some kind of strain on the liver.

I've heard high protein can hurt the kidneys, but only if it's not combined with adequate fat or only in those who already have kidney disease.

I'm just curious about what low carb does in the liver?

[lisabinil]

I have a mildly fatter liver and lc or higher fat has not worsened it but what caused it was years of eating an unhealthy SAD diet higher in sugar, HFCS and low omega 3/high omega 6 fats.

[Amity79]

yep. carbs bog down the liver. LC helps clear it up. My liver function test are like night and day of when I am on or off low carb.

[sophiethecat]

Thanks, that is interesting & good to know. About a year ago I wasn't eating exactly low carb, but was eating lots of meats, creams, cheese, rich sauces - sort of a "French" way of eating. I still had potatoes, rice, white flour, but no food from boxes, no junk, hfcs, transfat, etc.) Felt some odd little pains on the right side at times, and since I was drinking a lot of wine too, I wanted to get things checked out. Tests showed perfect liver, gb, pancreas.

After that, I kept most of the quality, whole food, but with late Fall and Winter setting in, I started giving in to cookies, baked goods, whatever sweet were around, became sedentary, kept drinking too much, stopped some of the more healthful eating through the winter and spring, gained weight of course, and awoke my IR beast.

This June I saw a picture of myself and what I looked like with 25 - 30 extra pounds. It was my wakeup call, and I started watching calories and eating lower carb. Then I remembered LC and here I am.

Sorry, I can be kind of chatty, but with trying to cut back on the wine and now eating large amounts of fat and protein, just wanted to make sure my liver would be fine with all the fat and protein to work with. I feel great though, so that's a clue something is right.

[ravenrose]

and even people with kidney disease can eat protein fine, up to the end stages which are VERY serious where the kidneys have basically stopped functioning.

my kidney dr does encourage limiting red meat (which includes pork) to one serving a week though.

[fsfty]

Interesting...3 months ago, before i started this woe, my liver function panel wasn't normal for the first time. This, along with the borderline diabetes warning started me on low carb. I just took new blood tests, so hopefully my liver function is normal. My doctor didn't seem too concerned, but still...

[poopsie2223]

Let's just say when they force-fed those geese to make their livers get fatty enough to make foi gras, it's not protein and fats they're forcing down their throats, it's 100% carbohydrates.

[jezzie]

What brought me the worst results on my liver function studies was
taking way too many supplements.

My liver didn't seem to like 75 -80% fat either.
Neither I, nor my gastro-doc, noticed any other food related results.

[pooticus]

Originally Posted by jezzie

What brought me the worst results on my liver function studies was
taking way too many supplements.

My liver didn't seem to like 75 -80% fat either.
Neither I, nor my gastro-doc, noticed any other food related results.

Yep, I have NFLD from IR and PCOS since 16 and Cyclical Cushings Synd. Then I took too many supps and had a secondary liver injury. My liver doesn't do too well on high 75-80% fat or protein over about 8-10oz a day. (10oz is my max, over that and I start smelling ammonia in body secretions).

So I eat lower (for Atkins) fat at 40-60% per day and limit protein to 60-80g/day (about 8-9oz) and about 20-60g of net carbs per day and am losing about 6-1/2lbs a month. If I go out of those ranges I either gain or maintain. Cals are fairly lower though. About 1000-1200 when I'm in active weight loss mode and 1400-1800 when I'm in maintain mode.

I try to mix it up every day and eat a differnt number of cals and carbs each day.

[sophiethecat]

Thanks for the replies - this is all very interesting.

I hope I don't take too many supplements. I never worried about their effect on the liver too much but it does have to deal with them the same as anything.

Jezzi & Pooticus, do you have any idea how much was too much or what supplements were harder on your livers?

I take:

1/2 multi
D, Calcium, Mag.
potassium
fish oil
turmeric
MSM
acetyl l-carnitine & alpha lipoic acid
milk thistle

plus I take otc allergy med and Metformin.

So NFLD is generally a product of a person being obese (and too many carbs)?

I'm going to have some blood work done in the next month or so and see how things are doing.

[sophiethecat]

Found this article by accident just now. I wasn't even searching on this topic:

Fewer carbs short-term gets rid of liver fat

I notice they can't quite bring themselves to say go low carb for more than short term, but still, it goes along with what we were talking about.

[~PaperMoon~]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

I have a mildly fatter liver and lc or higher fat has not worsened it but what caused it was years of eating an unhealthy SAD diet higher in sugar, HFCS and low omega 3/high omega 6 fats.

Yeah I read that sugar and HFCS can be as hard on the liver as someone drinking alchohol all the time! Same with fast foods and all of that kind of food, most of which is carbs.

[spirilis]

Dr. Lustig's big viral video about "Is Sugar a Toxin?" goes into detail about the biochemical processing of fructose vs. ethanol, and his position is that they work pretty much the same way inside the liver; triggering inflammation (that I had no idea about fructose...) and producing fat from the excess, much of which is exported as VLDL.

[sophiethecat]

Originally Posted by spirilis

Dr. Lustig's big viral video about "Is Sugar a Toxin?" goes into detail about the biochemical processing of fructose vs. ethanol, and his position is that they work pretty much the same way inside the liver; triggering inflammation (that I had no idea about fructose...) and producing fat from the excess, much of which is exported as VLDL.

I watched that vid last night - thanks, was quite informative.

[Emily-D]

What supplements caused the liver problems?

What is NFLD?

Thank you!

[sophiethecat]

Originally Posted by Emily-D

What supplements caused the liver problems?

What is NFLD?

Thank you!

Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease. I'm wondering which supps. caused it too.

[theredhead]

Here's an excellent blog post by Dr. Michael Eades (co-author of Protein Power) who addresses NAFLD, and as a previous poster mentioned, how fois gras is made. Interesting!

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/a...gras_cest.html

[jezzie]

Originally Posted by Emily-D

What supplements caused the liver problems?

"What brought me the worst results on my liver function studies was
taking way too many supplements."

My operative words were 'way too many'. Which of them 'caused' the
problem? Beats me.
I was following the advice of three books. An R. Atkins book, a nutritional
healing bible, and I don't remember the third. (Was I gullible much. )

These are the supplements I 'remember' taking:

B, C, D, E, Calc/Mag/Pot.

Coenzyme Q10
Flax oil
Garlic

Spirulina, Chlorella

Alpha-Lipoic Acid
Milk Thistle
Selenium
SAMe
Dandelion

Chondroitin/Glucosamine/MSM

[piratejenny]

Originally Posted by sophiethecat

So NFLD is generally a product of a person being obese?

As far as I have been able to find out--NO, obesity doesn't "cause" NAFLD.
It is associated with obesity...but that can be like saying fire trucks are associated with fires!

It is well-accepted in Chinese and alternative medicine that a "sluggish" liver CAUSES obesity...
that one cannot lose weight without cleansing/supporting the liver, since the liver is largely responsible for fat metabolism and energy levels.


This is a list of supplements I came up with a couple of years ago when I was diagnosed with NAFLD:
(not medical advice; please do your own research for contraindications, dosages, etc)
Milk thistle seed extract or tea***
Lecithin
Glutathione
Magnesium malate

Foods:
turmeric (potent blood thinner...use cautiously)
wasabi
ginger
beets (cleanses blood)
dandelion greens
dandelion root
lemon (fresh, not bottled juice)
bitter foods/herbs (Swedish bitters)

Also consider:
Poultices/compresses (mustard, charcoal, castor oil, etc)
Acupuncture

***Milk thistle is considered the go-to herb for liver problems (including hepatitis). It may be effective enough on its own that no other supplements are needed.

Thanks for this thread...I think I am going to start concentrating on liver health again! It's so important!!!

[~PaperMoon~]

Originally Posted by piratejenny

As far as I have been able to find out--NO, obesity doesn't "cause" NAFLD.
It is associated with obesity...but that can be like saying fire trucks are associated with fires!

It is well-accepted in Chinese and alternative medicine that a "sluggish" liver CAUSES obesity...
that one cannot lose weight without cleansing/supporting the liver, since the liver is largely responsible for fat metabolism and energy levels.

Interesting points, especially about the sluggish liver.