How much protein can you eat before it turns to glucose?

[muffin_maiden]

I've read before that eating too much protein at once can cause it to turn to glucose, but how much protein can you eat before that happens? I tend to eat two larger meals (or one big one) during the day with between 10 and 16 ounces of protein at a time. Would that amount turn to glucose or are we talking that you'd have to eat a LOT of meat before that happens?

Thanks.

[alligatorpie]

not nearly enough there for you to worry about if that is all the protein you are getting. in fact, it seems kind of low...i think most people shoot for under 80. there is much debate about the protein to glucose conversion. this should get interesting...im well into the hundreds regularly....trying to get it down.

[flatferenghi]

I do not think he gave specific amounts or %s. I will check it( DANDR) out when i get home. Love &Profits: FLATFERENGHI

[errihu]

From what I've read, the protein to glucose conversion is set, and not a matter of ratio. That is, your body will convert a set amount, whether it's from what you eat or from your own muscles. If you 'go over', it won't convert more; it'll convert the same amount. From what I understand, your body will also convert dietary sources before it'll cannibalize itself, so there's something to be said for exceeding your daily 'requirement'. (My source is Dr. Eades' blog for this information.)

It's physically difficult to eat protein 'to excess'. In fact, it's so difficult that we haven't even clearly defined at what point protein intake becomes excessive. I'd say don't worry about the protein count unless you're going under.

[SoHappy]

Originally Posted by errihu

From what I've read, the protein to glucose conversion is set, and not a matter of ratio. That is, your body will convert a set amount, whether it's from what you eat or from your own muscles. If you 'go over', it won't convert more; it'll convert the same amount. From what I understand, your body will also convert dietary sources before it'll cannibalize itself, so there's something to be said for exceeding your daily 'requirement'. (My source is Dr. Eades' blog for this information.)

It's physically difficult to eat protein 'to excess'. In fact, it's so difficult that we haven't even clearly defined at what point protein intake becomes excessive. I'd say don't worry about the protein count unless you're going under.

This. ^ Your protein amounts are fine for the amounts your body would need to convert for its glucose requirements if you don't get enough carbs to begin with. And your amounts seem to be certainly adequate for your overall protein needs as well, so you're doing well. I expect you are seeing a nice downward trend in your weight as the weeks go by.

[muffin_maiden]

Thanks, everyone. The posts certainly answered my questions!

[zizi]

Interesting. Thanks to all for sharing!!!!!!!!!

[ravenrose]

right. up till recently we seemed to think it was based on protein intake, but not so much now.

[MisteeReign]

Hunny let me tell ya sumthing....If i was 300 plus lbs and ate whole turkeys and whole chickens on induction and beyond and STILLLLL lost the weight you will be fine eat that protein gal!

[redtoile]

Thanks for this post. I worry about this all the time.

[Auntie Em]

The only exact way for a particular person to know how much a food affects blood sugar, is to test one's blood with a glucose meter.

Some of the Drs. Eades' books have height and weight charts for protein amounts in the backs of the books, for general guidelines.


Muffin, if you have concerns about your blood sugar, please get tested.

All the best to you.

[piratejenny]

I came back to look for this thread after I found this in Dr Bernstein today:

Protein foods from animal sources are about 20% protein by weight (1 oz meat=6g protein). The liver can very slowly transform as much as 36% of these 6g into glucose*
if blood sugar descends too low, or if the body's other amino acid needs have been met.

*This amounts to about 7.5% of the total weight of a protein food. Say you eat 3oz (85g) of meat; the protein in it can be transformed into no more than 6g of glucose.

I can't find anywhere in the book where Dr B cautions against eating too much protein, in spite of this conversion...anybody more familiar with Dr B please correct me if I'm wrong. He limits carbs quiet strictly (6g for breakfast, 12g for lunch, 12g for dinner), but allows his patients to choose what amount of protein they think would satisfy them.

[CarolynF]

According to Dr. Atkins, it is around 52 percent of protein gets converted to glucose.

So, if you overeat protein at each meal, it will act like carbs. Dr. Bernstein also talks about this and recommends his diabetes patients to take 4 ounces of protein at a time.

To find out how much protein your body needs, there is a calculation..Take your lean body weight and multiply it by .6 for your basic protein needs. Add 10 more grams if you exercise..more if you are a guy or an athlete..Dr. Barry Groves talks about this alot in his books..Most women need 70 to 90 grams of protein a day..One egg has about 7 grams of protein and ****** can figure out the amount of protein and fat in meats, etc.

[chiody]

I consume a huge amount of protein / day. So much in fact, it doesn't compute if you count "calories" per se.

2-3 lbs. of fatty meat/chicken/fish plus .5 -1 lbs. of dark green veggies consumed in 1 meal is my daily regimen (intermittent fasting).

Gluconeogenesis is the source of my glycogen production hence is not dependent upon exogenous carbs for that component.

Have tested consistently post prandial 1 hr./2hr. and more with extremely low glucose levels, frequently less than non diabetic ranges.

Seeing steady BG levels in the 80's currently with PP's in the very low 100's.

I do exercise for ~4-5 hours per day average on the bike and doing yoga. When cycling it is predominently at a very low "fat burning" rate and rarely get "aerobic" with little time "anaerobic." Perhaps this is why I've steadily been at 6-8% body fat for a number of years now.

OTOH, doing Bikram's hot yoga at 105F, for 2 back to back sessions, essentially 4 hours of sweating and yoga, feels tougher than riding 100 miles on the bike. Alarmingly, when I started this venue about a month ago, a wt. loss of 10 lbs. came quickly the 1st week or so, not exactly what I wanted. Luckily I've gained some back and have lesser swings with more stability now.

Many of my fellow cyclists are quick to point out the huge number of hours on the bike is burning up all the food I'm eating, but it doesn't explain the fact that my wt. is steady for all intense and purpose yr. round, even during the dead of Winter when exercise is cut in half all the time consuming the SAME amount.

I really believe if you arrive at a true Gluconeogenesis state, the amount of protein AND food, as long as it's VLC, LC, Primal, etc. is not that relevant. But if you fall out of ketosis and insulin is invoked with the vicious fat storing cycle started, all bets are off.

[piratejenny]

Had an interesting protein experience today--
and this is just an anecdote, not a pattern or theory or anything--

I had about 6oz of ham, 2 eggs, and 1oz cheddar cheese for lunch, with a little mustard and mayonnaise; more protein than I've been eating at one meal lately. 43g protein; 5-6g carb. My blood glucose actually went down over the next few hours--115 to 108. In contrast, for dinner (6.5hours later) I had a small salad (about 2oz greens) with a few broccoli florets and 2 eggs, 8g carb; my BG went up from 101 to 121 in an hour.

Hey chiody--
on your awesome fitness & physique!

[ravenrose]

to confuse this further, I was just reading on one of those serious science blogs a suggestion that some types of protein seem to be converted more easily than others to carbs.

I guess what I said isn't the whole story. while our bodies can, to varying degrees depending on the person, make glucose without you eating any protein, they might well make MORE glucose depending on what protein you eat. But this is totally an individual metabolism thing. One person not finding it a problem doesn't mean it won't be for you... I see no way for a non-diabetic to figure this out. and even for someone like me... it's not like the blood sugar rises immediately like it does when you eat carbs. that gluconeogenesis might take place over many hours. all I know is that for me, my liver seems perfectly able to churn out a fairly high blood sugar completely independent of my eating anything. this is not rare for very obese people to have this situation, I believe. While controlling protein intake might help some, I don't think it has a very big impact. if you are good at gluconeogenesis, your body has a LOT of protein available to use to do it, ie all your own muscle tissues, so eating LESS protein isn't going to be helpful at that point. one doesn't want to lose weight by losing muscle mass, it's just a bigger problem in the long run. so maybe we are back to the commonly held view. if you seem to have this problem, and that would be people who don't go well into ketosis no matter how little carbs they eat, limiting protein to the minimum needed for tissue repair etc. seems wise. of course this is complicated by the various authorities recommending wildly different amounts of protein as your minimum needed. Protein Power has numbers more than twice what many other sources use. who knows? *sigh*

[pooticus]

Originally Posted by piratejenny

Had an interesting protein experience today--
and this is just an anecdote, not a pattern or theory or anything--

I had about 6oz of ham, 2 eggs, and 1oz cheddar cheese for lunch, with a little mustard and mayonnaise; more protein than I've been eating at one meal lately. 43g protein; 5-6g carb. My blood glucose actually went down over the next few hours--115 to 108. In contrast, for dinner (6.5hours later) I had a small salad (about 2oz greens) with a few broccoli florets and 2 eggs, 8g carb; my BG went up from 101 to 121 in an hour.

Hey chiody--
on your awesome fitness & physique!

Jenny, my suspicion with this lunch meal is that had you tracked it to the 4-6 hour mark you would have seen your blood sugar rises you were expecting. When I eat a big protein meal like that my bgs go down the first two hours due to delayed stomach emptying...but they rise on anywhere from 2-6 hours depending on type and amount of protein and fats ingested in the meal.

[piratejenny]

I did track it for 6 hours.

But, I just got a blood glucose meter about 10 days ago. Have a lot to learn.

[Auntie Em]

Jenny, I didn't find any upper limits in Dr. B's book, just lower ones. He gives 4-6 ounces of meat per meal in his recommendations, but does say that he lets his patients choose the amount of protein they would like to eat. He only talks about limiting protein for losing weight, not for lowering blood sugars, as far as I can tell. I might have missed something, though.

Hope your own testing gives you the info you need.

[chiody]

Originally Posted by pooticus

Jenny, my suspicion with this lunch meal is that had you tracked it to the 4-6 hour mark you would have seen your blood sugar rises you were expecting. When I eat a big protein meal like that my bgs go down the first two hours due to delayed stomach emptying...but they rise on anywhere from 2-6 hours depending on type and amount of protein and fats ingested in the meal.

OK,


The delayed stomach emptying is intriquing so:

My intermittent fasting daily meal consumed was 2.0 lbs of ground chuck with jalapeno peppers and a few chunks of hot Italian sausage. Too lazy to make veggies....duh...

First bite at 3:00 PM yielded a 1 hr. PP of 76 (3:58PM).

I just retested at 6:19 PM for a 3 hr PP still very low at 84.

No stomach emptying here I guess?

Today's ride was 84 miles on a hot 90 degree day consuming only 48 oz. of H2O.

Last time I ate food was the previous day at 4PM.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by chiody

OK,


The delayed stomach emptying is intriquing so:

My intermittent fasting daily meal consumed was 2.0 lbs of ground chuck with jalapeno peppers and a few chunks of hot Italian sausage. Too lazy to make veggies....duh...

First bite at 3:00 PM yielded a 1 hr. PP of 76 (3:58PM).

I just retested at 6:19 PM for a 3 hr PP still very low at 84.

No stomach emptying here I guess?

Today's ride was 84 miles on a hot 90 degree day consuming only 48 oz. of H2O.

Last time I ate food was the previous day at 4PM.

You are kicking butt. Don't burn yourself out. Adrenal Fatigue is hard to recover from as I understand it.