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Old 03-18-2011, 11:20 AM   #1
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Cut it out or stay the course?

When you are struggling to lose, and you face the option of cutting even more selections? In particular, cheese, dairy, etc....having already cut so much, is it really worth it long term to go without these items in favor of quicker losses?? This has to be sustainable right? But if you are struggling to lose, what do you do?...(6 weeks same weight with a lot of exercise...not bragging/just saying). Fasting and such does not appeal to me, because I can't imagine that the weight wouldn't come right back...??....and then your body will recognize higher carb levels when you return and gain..?? What have you debated cutting, but stayed the course with? I'm hanging onto cheese and some other dairy, but just barely...thx.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:31 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by alligatorpie View Post
...What have you debated cutting, but stayed the course with? I'm hanging onto cheese and some other dairy, but just barely...thx.
Hi a-p…
With myself - nothing. I may have debated with a couple of others about these things.

I decided that this is for life not for loss, so I'm going wherever 30 net carbs of whatever I choose daily will take me. I don't worry about whether it's 'grain' or 'dairy' or 'sweet'…it's just food.

If I had a particular number in mind that it was imperitive it hit, and a deadline in which I had to hit it, then perhaps I'd go there.

I resist peer pressure and my self-worth is not built on what others are doing. My plan is self-styled, and designed to get me into retirement in reasonable shape to keep up with my wife as we vacation and travel (already there actually with 2 yrs 7 months, 26 days to go but who's counting).

So you will need to decide for yourself how-far and how-fast you want to go with low carbing. And then you have to think of the "how is that workable?" Frankly there are many ways to lose weight including simply stop eating.

If I was 5 pounds from a target and $1million was riding on my reaching it in a month, I'd just starve myself till I got there. But to me eating low carb is about more than that (and nobody has offered me anything to reach anywhere).



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Old 03-18-2011, 11:39 AM   #3
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I feel you. I go back and forth with the cheese/dairy thing. When I get stuck, I give them up. Then within a few days I start having a pretty steady drop again (I average 10 pounds a month). Then I gradually add them back until I stall again. I can't ever seem to let them totally go, even though I think I could lose faster if I did. But, as you said, I want this to be a way of life and not just a diet. So, I am not going to give them up totally - just when needed for a stall. I'm happy as long as I'm losing something!!
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:41 AM   #4
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I cut hamburger, steak, and bacon in favor of chicken breast and fish. But I do add them back. I'm thinking of cutting the atkins bars now, seems most ppl don't eat them. Definately cutting pepperoni because I overeat it.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:58 AM   #5
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Some of those items, it depends on quantity. I mean if it's 8 ounces of cheese a day that might excessive. Other dairy products are not necessarily carb free, such as heavy whipping cream, so sometimes caution has to be used with those. It might not even be those items are a problem, people have trouble with lots of things, medications/antidepressants, caffeine, artificial sweeteners, processed LC food, Atkins bars, etc, etc.

I was stalled out around 165 for many weeks. I finally gave up this after dinner snack I was doing of pork skins, a couple ounces cheese, and nuts, and right after that the scale started moving again. I didn't want to give up that little snack tray, but I actually didn't really need it and sleep better not having just eaten right before bed.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlori View Post
...I'm thinking of cutting the atkins bars now, seems most ppl don't eat them.
Hi shlori…
How did you conclude that? We don't have a polling tool here in the forum, but on forums where they exist, questions always net about a 10:1 ratio of people responding to polls versus posting answers.

There are many people in the forums who purchase and eat Atkins and other brands of bars (and make their own).

I'd say a few of us are vocal, but there is a silent group of steady-users present in the forum.

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Old 03-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #7
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Larry J....I'm new here and I haven't read 1 positive thread about them. That is my own conclusion. I have been eating them for breakfast. But in the last few days I've been saving them for a snack....I'm definately keeping them on hand but will save them for emergencies....lol. Anything positive you can tell me I'd appreciate. Fact is I'm here to learn as much as possible about the way others do things. All I can say about them is they are YUMMY!!!!
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:55 PM   #8
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Hi There, sorry to threadjack but on the topic of Atkins Bars...I have used them from the very start, they never stalled me and I continue to use them in maintenance. I generally eat very clean, but I find them to be a good meal replacement (usually for breakfast) if I can't get a real breakfast together...and/or a snack/dessert if I'm really feeling I need something sweet. I know they affect some people negatively, and/or they stall people....but that doesn't apply in my case. I agree with Larry completely...there are lots of people who are afraid to say they eat "frankenfoods" for fear the people who are very adamant about eating clean/whole will jump on them. To the original OP, my personal opinion is that if you are in it for the long haul you've got to find something that works for you. If you cut out cheese and dairy to lose, but you don't want to give them up forever, you'll add back and may stall regain again. I think I follow the Larry plan, which is I figured out what worked for me, what was sustainable, and although it took me 11 months to lose 50 pounds...I was happy with the "slow but steady wins the race" concept. I never felt deprived...I still don't. Best of luck to you!
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlori View Post
I cut hamburger, steak, and bacon in favor of chicken breast and fish. But I do add them back. I'm thinking of cutting the atkins bars now, seems most ppl don't eat them. Definately cutting pepperoni because I overeat it.
I just discovered atkins bars and shakes. I love them they are so good. But only one a day. unless I change my mind.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:24 PM   #10
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I know that I lose slow and steady by sticking to 1200 calories, less than 30 carbs, 60gm protein and about 60-70% fats. Lately, my carbs are coming in at less than 15, fats at 50% and calories around 900 but it's not because I'm deliberately trying to do that. I'm just not hungry lately and that's what it's added up to.

Oh sure I'd love to drop 70 pounds in 3 months again, but to be honest, I'm looking at this in a different way this time. It's the way I need to eat if I plan on never taking insulin again...the weight loss is just a bonus. So I'll just stay the course and I lose what I lose.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:43 PM   #11
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Alligator,

I've lost the weight I needed to, but still have a small spare tire around my middle.

I've tried reducing calories and IF but the thing that is starting to work is limiting protein to 70-90 grams a day. For a while I thought extra protein would build my body up, but it didn't happen.

There are many blogs that talk about limiting protein. PaNu and Eades come to mind. One of our members, Stargazey has a blog and some terrific items about how excess protein is converted to carbs for energy.

Since reading her stuff I've dropped a couple pounds. More importantly I'm into size 34 pants after 25+ years.

You can find posts by Stargazey on the maintainers forum, weekly weigh in.
Access her blog from there. Sorry I can't link. Computers are a mystery to me.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shlori View Post
Larry J....I'm new here and I haven't read 1 positive thread about them.
...All I can say about them is they are YUMMY!!!!
Hi shlori…
I know there are negative comments about them, and about Splenda, and about aspartame (or anything sweet for that matter), and about coffee (caffeine) and about tea, and about low carb cheesecake, or ice cream, and about protein shakes, frankenfoods etc...

I suspect one reason we don't see positive directed threads about Atkin's products etc might be that people who are happy with the things we eat, and secure don't feel the need to keep raising the issue. When asked, we will volunteer that we enjoy them and eat them.

People who have not yet realized weight loss is linear, and erratic, hit a point where the pounds don't come off as fast, and when they ask, the advice is generally directed toward what they need to rid themselves of.

Lest you think low carb is all about austere eating, just head over to the Recipe Help section of the forum, and you will discover a group of very happy folks merrily buying, making, and eating, all kinds of rather decadent sweet things. And there have been positive discussions there about Atkins, and Choco-lite, and other sweet bars.

I'm sure you realize there are those here who are eating low carb for health reasons, others for weight loss, and some of us who are in it for life. And some love to do it with health food, and we have vegetarians eating low carb. And zero carbers, and Atkin's by the original book and self-styled low carbers like myself.

Me, it's the only way I can eat and not be hungry and not gain weight. I'm not in it for the health benefits (nice side effect was losing 110 pounds), don't see what others call franken-food as a problem, don't mind soy in my mayo, or non-sugar sweetener in my sweet/tasty foods.

My take on foods like Atkin's bars are they keep me from going on binges, because there are good tasting things I can snack on if I'm a little hungry so I'm never tempted to go off plan to satisfy some 'urge'.

Kind of a long answer to your short question…and it feels a bit inadequate at that…

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Old 03-18-2011, 02:58 PM   #13
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I have not cut anything, even with slooooowww lossses. I'm OK with that. Some weeks I lose nothing. Since January I've lost 3 pounds. Thats fine by me. Perhaps if I had a lot more weight to lose I would think differently. I dunno. I just know that I'm at peace with my food right now. I don't struggle, I don't deprive myself- I follow the rules Dr. A set out and it works for me even if it does so at a rate that most people would not be happy with.

The only thing I've limited really is nuts, especially salted nuts because its so easy to mindlessly eat them. I have not eliminated them. Just don't buy them as often anymore. But this is me, I've found a way of eating that is sustainable for the long term and the weight is coming off, even if at a very slow pace.

I think it comes down to what you are able to live with. If quicker losses are more important to you then do what you must.

Oh yeah, I'm with Suzabelle, I follow the Larry plan too. LOL! - Actually I owe Larry a great big thank you. When the weight loss slowed down, I was pondering what to do to speed it up again and something he said really clicked with me. "I've got to manage this thing called eating for the rest of my life." Sure I could cut this and cut that to see faster weight loss but how does it help me to manage this thing called eating for life? I didn't think it would so I just relaxed. I go through weeks of what technically would be considered a stall, yet I've just decided to keep doing what I'm doing.

But again, my approach may be different for a number of reasons. I'm in good health and I actually like the way my body looks right now, except for the tummy area. Maybe if I were not happy in those areas I might be thinking about shaking things up, but since I'm at a peace . Its OK- I love my 3 Cs, coffee,cream and cheese and will not be giving them up!

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Old 03-18-2011, 05:36 PM   #14
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Hi Alligator,

This time around, I went to JUDDD and I'm sailing!

I do believe processed foods, artificial sweeteners and junk foods can DEFINITELY cause stalls in some people. And I believe they are not healthy overall. As far as dairy, it's an individual thing. Some people do fine on it, some do better when they leave it behind.

Now, for me, (not part of JUDDD, just my preferences for health) I AM dairy-free and grain-free for most of the time. I did have some ww pasta last week, but I'm happier eating completely dairy-free and grain-free.
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:22 AM   #15
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I would say the same things others have said. It definitely comes down to motivation. If you are truly unhappy and would like to try to drop lower, go ahead and experiment with what works for weight loss. On the other hand (and this is the hand that usually wins for me) you have been maintaining your losses for 6 weeks. Are you happy with what you are eating? Could you keep eating what you are eating for life without feeling deprived? Those are important questions that only you can answer. It really comes down to you.

Also - I notice that you workout alot. so, even though you may not be losing weight, are you losing inches or toning up? Clothes fitting differently? I swear, my weight loss has been sluggish. 4 pounds since the beginning of February. BUT, with exercise, I feel my muscles toning up and have received lots of compliments how much thinner I'm getting. (All the whlie thinking its crazy how noticeable 4 pounds of loss looks.) I figure I'm gaining muscle and losing fat, and the scale just doesn't show that as well. Don't get me wrong - I still want to lose more weight, but I also know from previous stumbles that it's more important - at least to ME - that I can eat this way for life.

Good luck figuring this all out
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:25 AM   #16
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Just think of it as mental training - if I can control that urge to drink a cola or that piece of cheese imagine what you can do later. True this training might take lots of little steps and battles. The more you fight and train this kind of thinking, easier things will be and the less likely you will fail on the diet or even on other things

Thant which does not kill me, makes me stronger!

Maybe later you might be able to add some of those things back to your diet - if you want too!

For now I am giving up alcohol and caffeine. Plus slowing down on other areas. With food hmm - I am seriously thinking of cutting the sweet as I think it messes with my mind and might make me more likely to break - already no sugar but my flavored waters I am suspicious about and my one piece of gum a day ... Maybe just the waters - cucumber water here I come. I am getting it done. I mean I traveled almost 150 km/90 miles (OK on a bullet train and it took about hour) to get some diet root beer about 2 weeks ago and I have drank only one out of 12 so far. Now maybe I will lose more, maybe not but if I can control these things maybe I can learn to control other things like this diet and exercise or God willing my life.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:43 AM   #17
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Hi Larry J

Thanks for taking the time to address my question. I appreciate that. I asked on another thread why no one ate them. There wasn't a response. There is a lot of info here to absorb. I never heard of the term frankenfood before LCFs. I did the combo eating 7yrs ago without using any bars or such because they were only sold on hsn (a different brand).
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:40 PM   #18
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Hi AP,

I've been struggling with weight loss lately. Well, more like always. I think reading the board has made me more impatient. I already know from past experience that it is very hard for me to lose more than 15-20 pounds in a year.

What usually helps me is reading low carb books. They keep me immersed and motivated. They are so helpful, too, because of continuity. On the board there is so much debate I think it causes me to question myself when I didn't use to do that.

Still, it has been very useful to read the board. I've learned how to drop my insulin levels by using fat for snacks when really hungry (no protein). My fasting insulin came in very low at my last doctor's appointment. I couldn't believe it--not that this caused faster weight loss! Ugh.

I was stuck forever around 265--it was several months. It just took that long for my mind and body to adjust. In time, it does happen. Something will change, it always does. Sometimes I get a boost in weight loss from stress, extreme excitement about something, or illness.

It has been my concern that my diet is not sufficiently nutritious; I believe an improvement here will help. I really believe if our bodies are missing something, we seek it out. I've ordered a couple of paleo diet books and I'm currently reading Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet book. If you are interested, I'm writing a summary in the "Other Plans" section of the board. He is sort of Polland's Dr. Atkins; he has been denounced by the government for outrageous health claims (it is not a weight loss plan, he offers it as a solution to many ailments). It is a 50 carb plan (he believes it is too stressful on the body to force it to make glucose, so it is a minimum of 50 carbs, max 100) focused on eggs.

He believes eggs, and in particular, egg yolks are the most valuable food because the entire body of the chicken is built from the yolk. The nutrition you need to rebuild your cells that break down quickly are in there. I have read so many times that egg yolks have almost all vitamins and minerals needed; I am going to focus on this and see if it helps me.

He believes high fat dairy is the next category of food most useful to the body in terms of nutrition, and places muscle meats third because it is a one-sided food, useful for rebuilding muscle cells but lacking in sufficient fat and nutrients for bodily needs, such as rebuilding organs which must be regenerated at a much faster rate than muscles. He suggests organ meats as a more useful meat food than muscle meat, but I am never going to be able to do that (ugh), so I am looking at eggs.

Perhaps this is why so many people claim the egg fast is so effective.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:28 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi a-p…
With myself - nothing. I may have debated with a couple of others about these things.

I decided that this is for life not for loss, so I'm going wherever 30 net carbs of whatever I choose daily will take me. I don't worry about whether it's 'grain' or 'dairy' or 'sweet'…it's just food.

If I had a particular number in mind that it was imperitive it hit, and a deadline in which I had to hit it, then perhaps I'd go there.

I resist peer pressure and my self-worth is not built on what others are doing. My plan is self-styled, and designed to get me into retirement in reasonable shape to keep up with my wife as we vacation and travel (already there actually with 2 yrs 7 months, 26 days to go but who's counting).

So you will need to decide for yourself how-far and how-fast you want to go with low carbing. And then you have to think of the "how is that workable?" Frankly there are many ways to lose weight including simply stop eating.

If I was 5 pounds from a target and $1million was riding on my reaching it in a month, I'd just starve myself till I got there. But to me eating low carb is about more than that (and nobody has offered me anything to reach anywhere).



What a nice quote Larry, I feel the same. I have a life time to get there, this is not a race to the finish line but a slow steady goal to achieve.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:59 AM   #20
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Key Tones, I LOVE your posts!! Once again you have given me 'food for thought' and in an easy to understand way. Thank you and guess what I will be eating today? Yup, eggs!! I am also making my way over to 'other plans'!
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:14 AM   #21
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I want to add my two cents in here, not because I have anything new to say, but because so many of the things this thread is discussing really hits the on going issues for me. That being said, this is my opinion, and understand that eating decisions are very individual and there are very few hard and fast rules, but it is nice to hear how others have dealt with the same issues.

Atkins: I keep a few bars on hand and use them for emergencies. They upset my stomach which is somewhat distressing, but it cleans me out. I haven't had a shake in years - no particular reason. Maybe I'll try them in the summer. It's too cold to drink them in the winter.

Dairy: I like heavy cream and all kinds of cheese, but I limit them. A reasonable amount will not cause a stall, but out-of-control eating [of anything] will.

Rate of weight loss: It's very difficult and slow, and I have made peace with that. This is the fattest day of the rest of my life. I have lost slightly over 10 pounds since January 1st, mostly in the 1st two weeks. I have also gotten through a plateau point, and I weigh less today, than I have weighed in the past 4 years, so I celebrate that. Next year, I hope to be able to say the same thing.

Deprivation: I don't feel deprived at all. I have completely given up sugar, wheat, potatoes and rice, probably forever. They do not work well as food for me because they do bad things to my body. Some things I have postponed eating, like fruit; I know I can't handle it now, but later on I may have it in small amounts. Anything else, I can have in small amounts, depending on the carb level. I try not to go over 30 a day. I just can't have it all at the same time.

Reading books: - Yes, the best way to stay focused. These message boards are great, too. This keeps me focused and actively engaged in thinking about my eating habits. Without it, I mindlessly eat what the rest of the world eats, and my body reacts to that by storing fat.

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT WE ALL GIVE EACH OTHER!
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:41 AM   #22
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Annaj, GREAT post!!!

I hesitate to answer this because of my current 5.5 month stall - clearly I haven't found the answer but 'what am I willing to cut?' Pretty much nothing.

If anything I have added. I have added more 'structure' to my eating times. I have added more VCO to my menu and am about to add more eggs.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:40 PM   #23
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Key Tones, I LOVE your posts!! Once again you have given me 'food for thought' and in an easy to understand way. Thank you and guess what I will be eating today? Yup, eggs!! I am also making my way over to 'other plans'!
Clackley, thanks, and thank you! You led me to Peter at Hyperlipid. I have been fascinated by his posts. He is genius. One of his posts reveals he eats 4 egg yolks per day.

Didn't his daughter call chocolate his "fruit?" I loved that!

Last edited by Key Tones; 03-20-2011 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
6 weeks same weight with a lot of exercise...not bragging/just saying
Based on your particular circumstances, I would look to foods to which you might be intolerant, but only--as Atkins says-- if there have been no inches or pounds lost for at least six weeks. Atkins talks about food intolerances and how to remove the culprits and reintroduce them. If you aren't following Atkins, Dr. Julia Ross goes into the same topic, even more indepth in her book The Diet Cure.

Dairy is a huge issue for many, so cutting the food group for awhile and reintroducing might not be a bad idea.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:06 PM   #25
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We don't eat them but it's not because we think there is anything wrong with them. We got some free ones in the mail and just didn't like them. If I was out and couldn't find anything to eat, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a shake or candy bar.
I don't snack at home though, at least not right now while I'm trying to lose but when I reach maintenance, I will probably give them a try again. They probably have a few I would like and I can see how handy they would be if you were going somewhere and didn't know when you would eat. Much better than pigging out on some high carb thing just because you are hungry. Do what works for you, I say.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:52 PM   #26
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Since I started LC I've given up:
Pop
Candy
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Baked goods
Pasta
Potatoes
Pizza (although I did eat just the toppings a few times)
Rice
Corn, beans, peas, carrots
Fruit
Most frozen dinners

I might be willing to cut out cheese for a day or two for a jumpstart, but that's it. And only if I'm really desperate. I wouldn't say I feel deprived, just very restricted.

Last edited by Crazy Cat; 03-20-2011 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Clackley, thanks, and thank you! You led me to Peter at Hyperlipid. I have been fascinated by his posts. He is genius. One of his posts reveals he eats 4 egg yolks per day.

Didn't his daughter call chocolate his "fruit?" I loved that!
Even before LCing, I have always known that giving a baby egg yolk is the BEST thing next to breast milk. It's been the first food for both my little guys. Baby #2 in the pic LOVES them...the toddler, I had to force it on him and he gave it up as soon as he was old enough to tell me "no".

As to the original question, I'm not willing to give up more than HC foods at this point. And even then, I need to make exceptions here and there.

Deanne
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