ABOUT KETONES-BIOCHEM 101

drjlocarb · 04-10-2010, 07:44 PM

After reading soo much about ketones and keto sticks, I had to get out my biochem book and and see what I could find.

.(Like cramming for finals all over again)

Here goes---
Fatty acids are absorbed from the gut and transported into the cells as triglycerides(TG) by lipoprotein lipase and -insulin-.
When needed, they are released by mobilizing lipase, glycogOn, and -adrenalin- to the liver and the muscles cells, and converted back to fatty acids..(Glycogon also releases glycogen from muscles)
The fatty acid are oxidized through a complicated series of pathways to

Actyl-Co A.

---Stay with me here this is important-----

Glucose(carbs) is stored in the muscle as glycogen. Most of us know this. Right?

When needed, it is converted to ATP(tiny cell energy) and pyruvate, then to lactate. We have heard of this too. The lactate is transfered in the blood to the liver where it is converted back to pyruvate and then back to glucose. Sneeky little carb.

--Stay with me, it gets better!

Protein cannot be absorbed. It must be converted to amino acids and nitrogen The nitrogen is eliminated in the urine. We have all noticed the ammonia. The amino acids are used to produce make the proteins that our bodies need, some other things, and fuel. Fuel you say, what fuel?

Well, it is converted to Acetyl Co A, pyruvate, and ATP.

NOTE: protein and carbs can be converted to PYRUVATE and therfore back to glucose for the mucsles to use. But, the protein has other jobs to do too.

GET TO THE POINT

OK, OK!!!

The key here is that Acetyl-CoA can be converted to....KETONES

Ketones and stored glycogen can be used by the body to produce ATP, the tiny cell energy!!! This means that the sticks may not turn because the body may be using the ketones for tiny cell energy and they may not show in the urine. They are being used by your cells!!!

This may be too much info for some, but I felt compelled to give you the story.

Speck333 · 04-10-2010, 08:26 PM

love the nerd talk!

tybeeanna · 04-10-2010, 08:29 PM

Good story!even if it left me

not really, but it is complicated. you did a good job of explaining it.

Joy-FL · 04-10-2010, 08:32 PM

Acetyl-CoA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've been tweaking my ACh recently, so the crossover is interesting enough for me to subscribe. Thanks.

ravenrose · 04-10-2010, 09:23 PM

thanks for some thought-provoking points

cerisedownunder · 04-10-2010, 09:30 PM

Totally lost me

krb · 04-10-2010, 10:49 PM

i followed it, but only because i'm taking microbiology this semester. but it is a great and very reassuring post!

drjlocarb · 04-11-2010, 12:17 PM

I knew that all this would be too much for some but, it might help others to grasp why higher fat lower protein works.

Or, why the whole LC works at all.

Or why the sticks aren't pink.

Or how hormones like insulin and adrenaline(corisol) screw everything up.

Or that fat ,protein, and carbs all have to be digested,broken down, and transformed, and transported before they can be used at all.

All this is controlled by hormones and enzymes in pathways that are very complex. TO SAY THE LEAST!!

Sooooo, when the question is asked " what is wrong with me? Why can,t I lose weight like you??",

The answer may be in any of these pathways or hormones. Sometimes it takes time to sort out your body differences , to come up with the right answer FOR YOU.

sfmama123 · 04-11-2010, 12:41 PM

Hi, Thanks for your post. I remember reading somewhere that ketostix won't turn color anymore after the body is fully adapted to burning ketones for fuel, because one is no longer excreting extra ketones into the urine, so that "recycling" of the ketones for fuel makes sense. Thanks again!

DownSizin' · 04-12-2010, 02:33 PM

I'm another that appreciates the nerdy science answers. Thanks for posting this.

drjlocarb · 04-12-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownSizin'

I'm another that appreciates the nerdy science answers. Thanks for posting this.

You are welcome. All that re-learning gave me nightmares about finals week.

fawn · 04-12-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Sooooo, when the question is asked " what is wrong with me? Why can,t I lose weight like you??", The answer may be in any of these pathways or hormones. Sometimes it takes time to sort out your body differences , to come up with the right answer FOR YOU

And this is referred to as Biochemical Individuality. Thanks for the science. It's always welcome.

drjlocarb · 04-21-2010, 08:09 PM

Thanks for all that replied.

LCWizard · 04-21-2010, 08:56 PM

harleychic · 04-22-2010, 03:51 AM

Excellent post!! Everyone is different and we tend to forget that at times. There is science behind this WOE, its not a 'fad' like WW or Nutrasystem or Jenny or...... lol I could go on and on. Thank you!!

Tony_Dee · 04-22-2010, 08:02 AM

I think I'll use that explanation on my Christmas cards this year

kpk · 04-22-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony_Dee

I think I'll use that explanation on my Christmas cards this year

IslandAnne · 04-22-2010, 10:37 AM

Thanks for all that wonderful info! I bought some ketone sticks out of curiosity when I first started Atkins. Even when I was losing some crazy weight, the sticks barely showed anything. Now I know why.

drjlocarb · 05-17-2010, 07:00 AM

bumping for newbies

drjlocarb · 10-19-2010, 06:05 AM

bumping for chargerrich

chargerrich · 10-19-2010, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfmama123

Hi, Thanks for your post. I remember reading somewhere that ketostix won't turn color anymore after the body is fully adapted to burning ketones for fuel, because one is no longer excreting extra ketones into the urine, so that "recycling" of the ketones for fuel makes sense. Thanks again!

I am certainly no expert and do not claim to be, but my experience is that my ketostix are always, at the very least, dark pink and usually purple. I drink plenty of water, run about 8 miles a week and do know that my diet is heavier on protein than fat (estimating something like 65/35/5).

That said, in my now 9 weeks I havev never been out of ketosis save for two days where I planned it.

cleochatra · 10-19-2010, 07:07 AM

OK. Now put that on a tshirt and we're in business!

afuentes · 10-19-2010, 10:09 AM

Wow - I love it and appreciate it.

tamari · 10-19-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleochatra

OK. Now put that on a tshirt and we're in business!

I'll take a bumper sticker.

Thanks for the post, doc!

DooneBug · 10-19-2010, 10:31 AM

Great to know!

pooticus · 10-20-2010, 05:06 AM

I think I've got it! (Think My Fair Lady)

She thinks she got it!

The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plains. (We think she's got it!)

The pyruvate turns mainly in to lactate. (Oh yes she's got it!)

****

Sorry I went briefly to my happy place.

Nice post!

drjlocarb · 10-21-2010, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleochatra

OK. Now put that on a tshirt and we're in business!

Unfortunately, with my size, it would fit on my tshirts.

Now, you close to goal folks, may have a problem with that.

JazzleBug · 10-22-2010, 02:21 PM

This was actually really helpful! Thank you.

rqw1968 · 10-22-2010, 06:34 PM

:light bulb:

OK ! I get it !!! Very good information to know.

THANK YOU for bumping this thread.

drjlocarb · 01-27-2011, 12:51 PM

Bumping for all the ketosis questions.

04-10-2010, 07:44 PM	#1
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	ABOUT KETONES-BIOCHEM 101 After reading soo much about ketones and keto sticks, I had to get out my biochem book and and see what I could find..(Like cramming for finals all over again) Here goes--- Fatty acids are absorbed from the gut and transported into the cells as triglycerides(TG) by lipoprotein lipase and -insulin-. When needed, they are released by mobilizing lipase, glycogOn, and -adrenalin- to the liver and the muscles cells, and converted back to fatty acids..(Glycogon also releases glycogen from muscles) The fatty acid are oxidized through a complicated series of pathways to Actyl-Co A. ---Stay with me here this is important----- Glucose(carbs) is stored in the muscle as glycogen. Most of us know this. Right? When needed, it is converted to ATP(tiny cell energy) and pyruvate, then to lactate. We have heard of this too. The lactate is transfered in the blood to the liver where it is converted back to pyruvate and then back to glucose. Sneeky little carb. --Stay with me, it gets better! Protein cannot be absorbed. It must be converted to amino acids and nitrogen The nitrogen is eliminated in the urine. We have all noticed the ammonia. The amino acids are used to produce make the proteins that our bodies need, some other things, and fuel. Fuel you say, what fuel? Well, it is converted to Acetyl Co A, pyruvate, and ATP. NOTE: protein and carbs can be converted to PYRUVATE and therfore back to glucose for the mucsles to use. But, the protein has other jobs to do too. GET TO THE POINT OK, OK!!! The key here is that Acetyl-CoA can be converted to....KETONES Ketones and stored glycogen can be used by the body to produce ATP, the tiny cell energy!!! This means that the sticks may not turn because the body may be using the ketones for tiny cell energy and they may not show in the urine. They are being used by your cells!!! This may be too much info for some, but I felt compelled to give you the story.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-10-2010, 08:26 PM	#2
Speck333 Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 5,453 Gallery: Speck333 Stats: 181(16)/163(12)/99(0) ~ 5'2" WOE: Semi-Primal Start Date: Atkins restart: Jan. 3, 2010 (7/99 original start)	love the nerd talk!

04-10-2010, 08:29 PM	#3
tybeeanna Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern, IL Posts: 2,745 Gallery: tybeeanna Stats: H286 }232VSG{ C178 G when I get there WOE: low/carb 8-21-12 Start Date: 8/21/12	Good story!even if it left me not really, but it is complicated. you did a good job of explaining it.

04-10-2010, 08:32 PM	#4
Joy-FL Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,495 Gallery: Joy-FL Stats: 223/175/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: July 30, 2009	Acetyl-CoA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I've been tweaking my ACh recently, so the crossover is interesting enough for me to subscribe. Thanks.

04-10-2010, 09:23 PM	#5
ravenrose . Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: California Posts: 9,174 Gallery: ravenrose Stats: lost 130 lb so far, and miles to go before I sleep WOE: low carb controlled calorie Start Date: June, 2009	thanks for some thought-provoking points

04-10-2010, 09:30 PM	#6
cerisedownunder Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ayers Rock (Uluru), NT, Australia Posts: 309 Gallery: cerisedownunder Stats: 139/131/125 WOE: Atkins Start Date: Feb 2010	Totally lost me

04-10-2010, 10:49 PM	#7
krb Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Dallas, TX, USA Posts: 502 Gallery: krb Stats: (313 all time high)255/ 226/ 170 I'm 5'10" & 32 yo WOE: Atkins Start Date: this time 12-28-09	i followed it, but only because i'm taking microbiology this semester. but it is a great and very reassuring post!

04-11-2010, 12:17 PM	#8
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	I knew that all this would be too much for some but, it might help others to grasp why higher fat lower protein works. Or, why the whole LC works at all. Or why the sticks aren't pink. Or how hormones like insulin and adrenaline(corisol) screw everything up. Or that fat ,protein, and carbs all have to be digested,broken down, and transformed, and transported before they can be used at all. All this is controlled by hormones and enzymes in pathways that are very complex. TO SAY THE LEAST!! Sooooo, when the question is asked " what is wrong with me? Why can,t I lose weight like you??", The answer may be in any of these pathways or hormones. Sometimes it takes time to sort out your body differences , to come up with the right answer FOR YOU.

04-11-2010, 12:41 PM	#9
sfmama123 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 520 Gallery: sfmama123 Stats: 356/226/175 WOE: Atkins '72 Start Date: Every day	Hi, Thanks for your post. I remember reading somewhere that ketostix won't turn color anymore after the body is fully adapted to burning ketones for fuel, because one is no longer excreting extra ketones into the urine, so that "recycling" of the ketones for fuel makes sense. Thanks again!

04-12-2010, 02:33 PM	#10
DownSizin' Senior LCF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NE Florida Posts: 72 Gallery: DownSizin' Stats: 270/204.6/155 5'10" WOE: Atkins '72 Start Date: which time? now LowCarb for life	I'm another that appreciates the nerdy science answers. Thanks for posting this.

04-21-2010, 08:09 PM	#13
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	Thanks for all that replied.

04-21-2010, 08:56 PM	#14
LCWizard Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,323 Gallery: LCWizard Stats: Never Give Up! WOE: No Sugar Added

04-22-2010, 03:51 AM	#15
harleychic Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 632 Gallery: harleychic Stats: 174 (hw) 160/150/135 5'4 WOE: Atkins 72, clean eating no frankenfoods Start Date: 5/3/08, re-start after baby #3 born on 3/22/11	Excellent post!! Everyone is different and we tend to forget that at times. There is science behind this WOE, its not a 'fad' like WW or Nutrasystem or Jenny or...... lol I could go on and on. Thank you!!

04-22-2010, 08:02 AM	#16
Tony_Dee Junior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NYC, Des Moines Posts: 27 Gallery: Tony_Dee Stats: 220/155/145 WOE: Atkins/Carb Cycling Start Date: Restarted Jan 2009	I think I'll use that explanation on my Christmas cards this year

04-22-2010, 10:37 AM	#18
IslandAnne Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 255 Gallery: IslandAnne WOE: Modified LC.	Thanks for all that wonderful info! I bought some ketone sticks out of curiosity when I first started Atkins. Even when I was losing some crazy weight, the sticks barely showed anything. Now I know why.

05-17-2010, 07:00 AM	#19
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	bumping for newbies

10-19-2010, 06:05 AM	#20
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	bumping for chargerrich

10-19-2010, 07:07 AM	#22
cleochatra something there Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 14,426 Gallery: cleochatra	OK. Now put that on a tshirt and we're in business!

10-19-2010, 10:09 AM	#23
afuentes Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 4,985 Gallery: afuentes Stats: 188/130/128 - I am 5'6" WOE: Primal/low carb with weight training Start Date: honest restart - 11/20/08	Wow - I love it and appreciate it.

10-19-2010, 10:31 AM	#25
DooneBug Senior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 459 Gallery: DooneBug Stats: 232/216/160 WOE: Low Carb/Strength Training Start Date: August 2010	Great to know!

10-20-2010, 05:06 AM	#26
pooticus Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: May 2004 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 21,110 Gallery: pooticus Stats: 314/220.4/150 WOE: PersonalPlan Start Date: Nov.20, 2007 (restart)	I think I've got it! (Think My Fair Lady) She thinks she got it! The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plains. (We think she's got it!) The pyruvate turns mainly in to lactate. (Oh yes she's got it!) **** Sorry I went briefly to my happy place. Nice post!

10-22-2010, 02:21 PM	#28
JazzleBug Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Kissin' Armadillos Posts: 2,814 Gallery: JazzleBug Stats: 235.7 \| 216.8 \| 135 @ 5'6" WOE: HCG/Primal Blueprint/Leptin Reset Start Date: 4/6/12	This was actually really helpful! Thank you.

10-22-2010, 06:34 PM	#29
rqw1968 Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Mississippi Posts: 2,202 Gallery: rqw1968 Stats: 199 lbs/143.1 lbs/128 lbs (5' 6.5") Age: 44 WOE: Typically VLC, On hCG SubQ R1P2 since 10/4/2012 Start Date: January '09 (Restart: 7/15/2012)	:light bulb: OK ! I get it !!! Very good information to know. THANK YOU for bumping this thread.

01-27-2011, 12:51 PM	#30
drjlocarb Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212 Gallery: drjlocarb Stats: 274 /224/190 WOE: vlc/NK Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244	Bumping for all the ketosis questions.