Hive Mind: Wierd Health Problems

Looweewoo · 11-06-2009, 06:51 AM

This forum is a great place to find out odd things which, if never mentioned, might go unanswered for years. For instance, the "Charlie Horse" thread which is getting several different answers.

While reading and posting in that thread I suddenly remembered another cramp-like problem I was having that I have never asked ANYONE about. Why? Maybe there's a simple answer.

Well, probably there are other odd health problems that people have that they never bothered to ask about that might have simple answers. Two that I wonder about of mine seem to be related.

1) Bloody nose. The slightest dry air makes my nose bleed. What causes that and is there some way to fix it?

2) My gums and palate seem to be especially thin or weak. Eating a potato chip will leave me with torn flesh in my mouth. Some nuts break in my mouth and have sharp enough edges to tear my gums to pieces. Even a broken off piece of Coconut Bark will cut me. I don't think that happens to most people and I have asked dentists and doctors all over the US.

(I believe there might be an association with the tissue of my sinuses being equally thin or weak)

So you add your own to this thread and maybe someone will answer. Maybe not, but if we get just a little bit of knowledge spread around, it might make a world of difference to someone.

Blood Sugar 101 · 11-06-2009, 06:59 AM

Sounds like the classic signs of scurvy--vitamin C deficiency. If you are supplementing, is it possible you have a problem absorbing Vitamin C?

Have you had your blood levels of Vitamin C tested?

PghPALady1974 · 11-06-2009, 07:16 AM

My personal answer to #1:
I get lots of nosebleeds in the winter because of dry air. Why? I know I have a blood vessel at the surface of the skin in there and when the inside of my nose is too dry it tends to rupture very easy. My own solution? Put a little Vaseline in there to keep it moist. Use a humidifier in the winter.
I have had the vessel cauterized many times but it never lasts long.

Looweewoo · 11-06-2009, 07:26 AM

Not tested, but I've had them all my life (without any further symptoms of scurvy) even during times when I was doing very heavy C supplementation and getting tons of natural C from organic, homegrown fruits and vegetables. Right now I'm getting 300mg from my multi and much more from my salad greens.

But I'll check into it, Thanks! Maybe I don't absorb C well. That would explain why I never found that all my C supplements were worth the money.

Then again, the Inuit, Sami and Maasi diets suggests that Vit. C intake may not be as important as I always thought.

The Wikipedia article on scurvy mentions that..."Vilhjalmur Stefansson, an arctic explorer who lived among the Eskimos, proved that the all meat diet they consumed did not lead to vitamin deficiencies. He participated in a study in New York's Bellevue Hospital in 1935, where he and a companion ate nothing but meat for a year while under close medical observation, yet remained in good health.[14] Some Antarctic expeditions, such as Scott's two expeditions and Shackleton's Ross sea party, suffered from scurvy, mainly during inland sledge journeys when the men had access to very limited range of food, virtually none of it fresh. Scurvy was rare or absent when they had access to a wider range of stored food or relied on seal meat.[13][15][16] Refined carbohydrates seem to accelerate the process of depleting vitamin C. Insulin in the bloodstream causes all amino acids, except for tryptophan, to be stored as fat. Tryptophan competes to enter the bloodstream, causing less vitamin C to be available to the body. This could be one reason sailors and explorers, with their rations heavy with hard tack biscuits and refined carbohydrates, were so prone to scurvy."

dixiegal · 11-06-2009, 07:51 AM

my son has had nose bleeds since he was very young. One day we where at a store and his nose started bleeding and an old man came up and told me to feed him raisins every day. I picked up some of those snack boxes and started giving a box a day and no more nose bleeds! Every now and then he'll get one and eat raisins again and they stop. I have no idea why it works.

goohsmom · 11-06-2009, 08:51 AM

I'll second the recommendation for petroleum jelly in the nose. It helps me with allergies as well--the pollen gets stuck and can't go any further to cause trouble. It sounds gross at first, but it definitely helps.

Pam

Blood Sugar 101 · 11-06-2009, 12:30 PM

Louis,

The only way to get Vitamin C from meat is to eat the organ meats--kidneys, liver, etc. There isn't any Vitamin C in the muscles.

The Inuit ate all of the animals they hunted, and people from Anglo Saxon cultures seem to have lived on kidney pie and other things we don't eat anymore in the U.S. Kidneys are a good source of Vitamin C.

But if you are only eating steak or chicken wings, you can develop a deficiency.

FlyNavyWife · 11-06-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Sugar 101

Louis,

The only way to get Vitamin C from meat is to eat the organ meats--kidneys, liver, etc. There isn't any Vitamin C in the muscles.

The Inuit ate all of the animals they hunted, and people from Anglo Saxon cultures seem to have lived on kidney pie and other things we don't eat anymore in the U.S. Kidneys are a good source of Vitamin C.

But if you are only eating steak or chicken wings, you can develop a deficiency.

You're right but you're leaving something out.
Without eating grains (I don't know if the OP eats them or not), you don't need as much vitamin C as the government recommends. Grains have anti-nutrients that bind to vitamins and prevent you from absorbing them so you have to eat more of the vitamins to compensate.

Yellobrix · 11-06-2009, 12:59 PM

My thoughts... generally, people who avoid lots of high carb foods, sugary foods, are fine in the vitamin C department.

I'd skip the vaseline, because (1) I don't put any petroleum products into my body, and (2) because it's petroleum, it can greatly interfere with your mucus membrane's ability to shed bacteria, viruses, and environmental gunk (aka, boogers).

If you are taking a statin (Lipitor or another), one of the things it does is block your ability to absorb and retain vitamin K. K = clotting. Nosebleeds, your mouth problems, as well as unusual or easy bruising, can all be signs. It's actually made inside of your intestines by the good, friendly bacteria - but antibiotics, statins, aspirin therapy, or an intestinal illness can disrupt production. Vitamin K can be had at the grocery store.

HTH!

Blood Sugar 101 · 11-06-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyNavyWife

You're right but you're leaving something out.
Without eating grains (I don't know if the OP eats them or not), you don't need as much vitamin C as the government recommends. Grains have anti-nutrients that bind to vitamins and prevent you from absorbing them so you have to eat more of the vitamins to compensate.

You still need some, and there isn't much in the organ meats.

People forget that the Inuit also got vitamins from eating the stomach contents of animals they hunted that grazed or ate seaweeds. This is something your average Paleo fan isn't about to do.

Nor do they eat the brains, guts, and other offal of the animals the paleo people would have consumed. Or for that matter, the naturally occurring herbs that are rich in it.

Looweewoo · 11-06-2009, 01:37 PM

I know BS101 is against the Carnivore type diets, but since I do eat a wide variety of greens, I do take a multi and I do eat some organ meats, I'm not worried. I will see about Vit C malabsorption, but I don't really think that's my problem.

But the main point of this thread was for everyone to bring out anything they might be wondering about, so a wider conversation can develop which might be helpful to all.

Houston Heather · 11-06-2009, 02:36 PM

Once I got through the detox period, I noticed far fewer migraines. I also discovered a boatload of food intolerances and outright allergies.

Did that happen with anyone else? Suddenly you realize, grains make you feel awful?

Su11 · 11-06-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houston Heather

Once I got through the detox period, I noticed far fewer migraines. I also discovered a boatload of food intolerances and outright allergies.

Did that happen with anyone else? Suddenly you realize, grains make you feel awful?

They don't make me feel awful, but I get far fewer migraines when I'm lower carb and very low glycemic overall.

I also benefit from a neti pot.

Between those I rarely get migraines at all anymore. If I pig out on sweets or carbs, they will occur.

FlyNavyWife · 11-06-2009, 02:41 PM

Heather I realized grains were probably the cause of most of my indigestion. I almost never have stomach trouble now.

Houston Heather · 11-06-2009, 02:42 PM

I have the forbidden list... pretty much anything off plan triggers a violent migraine. Interestingly enough, the sugar migraines take 2 days to manifest.

Looweewoo · 11-06-2009, 03:14 PM

My migraines cleared up, even though I had been assured they were not migraines and were caused by my neck injury.

But yes, for some reason grains really bother me now. Mostly my digestion. I bleed after two meals of grains of almost any sort. Same with beans or the seeds of almost any plant. Very unpleasant. I've been assuming that I was somewhat habituated to them before, while the intolerance was building, and after a fairly long time off them I lost the habituation and was left with the intolerance.

I had some hope that re-establishing healthy flora would alleviate it, but no such luck. I'm testing a small amount of sprouted seeds now to see if it's the same. I would love to be able to add back sprouts.

SLynnB · 11-06-2009, 05:02 PM

Ever since I was a teenager (many, many long years ago), I've gotten these, for want of a better word, scratches on my back, neck, stomach and the spot will itch. Not knowing in advance that there was a scratch, I'd scratch it, the "scab" come off and it would bleed for a few minutes, stop, and be gone the next day. Not a frequent occurence but happens from time to times (still).

Guess if it happened frequently, I would have brought it up, but just one of those interesting things you think everyone gets.

SLynnB

texastigerlily · 11-06-2009, 05:07 PM

If LCing made my migraines go away, I would stay on it for life. Well...I'll stay on it anyway since my BS is under control, I'm sleeping better, and I have more energy.

Su11 · 11-06-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looweewoo

My migraines cleared up, even though I had been assured they were not migraines and were caused by my neck injury.

But yes, for some reason grains really bother me now. Mostly my digestion. I bleed after two meals of grains of almost any sort. Same with beans or the seeds of almost any plant. Very unpleasant. I've been assuming that I was somewhat habituated to them before, while the intolerance was building, and after a fairly long time off them I lost the habituation and was left with the intolerance.

I had some hope that re-establishing healthy flora would alleviate it, but no such luck. I'm testing a small amount of sprouted seeds now to see if it's the same. I would love to be able to add back sprouts.

Have you considered getting a nutritional workup with a wholistic nutritionist? Maybe one that works with an internist or other physician? You don't want someone with no real training, but there are very well qualified people that could check out things like your levels of the various vitamins and see if you have difficulties using the nutrients you are taking in.

I'm not sure that a thin skin explains what you are seeing, it is more like fragile skin and structures. You might have both, a lot of people have a partial oral roof without a lot of other symptoms (in my former work I dealt with this sort of thing to some degree). I think a dentist might just look at you as 'thin skinned' because they are only really concerned with that one system and that you may need to pull in some help to look at the big picture.

FlyNavyWife · 11-06-2009, 11:26 PM

Just curious. Is "hive mind" an Ender reference?

Looweewoo · 11-07-2009, 04:28 AM

I love the Ender series, but not really, at least not on my part. It was Jake who used it here that I first noticed, so he would have to tell you what he intended. My thoughts went back a lot further, to some of the early Frank Herbert books.

jezzie · 11-07-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

I also discovered a boatload of food intolerances and outright allergies.

hmmm. - I appear to have developed a food intolerance in my old age.
Well maybe. A minor inconvenience. I'm playing food detective.
I've definitely eliminated 'wheat and oat grains' as the culprits though.

No eating plan, specific food or supplement - has ever 'cured' anything.
For me anyway. (I tried a slew of them when I was younger. lol.)

Blood Sugar 101 · 11-07-2009, 08:27 AM

It's worth noting the mechanism behind the increase in food intolerances. Soy contains a chemical that damages the gut lining. This allows proteins from food to get through that lining into the blood stream where it provokes autoimmune attack.

If you are experiencing new food intolerances it is a very good idea to completely eliminate soy proteins from your diet.

11-06-2009, 12:59 PM	#9
Yellobrix MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Gallery: Yellobrix Stats: 199/167.5/145 WOE: Tweaking & Discovering Start Date: Over & Over... 'Til I Get It Right!	My thoughts... generally, people who avoid lots of high carb foods, sugary foods, are fine in the vitamin C department. I'd skip the vaseline, because (1) I don't put any petroleum products into my body, and (2) because it's petroleum, it can greatly interfere with your mucus membrane's ability to shed bacteria, viruses, and environmental gunk (aka, boogers). If you are taking a statin (Lipitor or another), one of the things it does is block your ability to absorb and retain vitamin K. K = clotting. Nosebleeds, your mouth problems, as well as unusual or easy bruising, can all be signs. It's actually made inside of your intestines by the good, friendly bacteria - but antibiotics, statins, aspirin therapy, or an intestinal illness can disrupt production. Vitamin K can be had at the grocery store. HTH! __________________ 32.5 Pounds Lost 22.5 Pounds To Go

11-06-2009, 03:14 PM	#16
Looweewoo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 25 Gallery: Looweewoo Stats: 420/335/325/250 - 6'2" WOE: Carnivore / T2 Diabetic Start Date: Restart 10/17/2009 The best is yet to come!	My migraines cleared up, even though I had been assured they were not migraines and were caused by my neck injury. But yes, for some reason grains really bother me now. Mostly my digestion. I bleed after two meals of grains of almost any sort. Same with beans or the seeds of almost any plant. Very unpleasant. I've been assuming that I was somewhat habituated to them before, while the intolerance was building, and after a fairly long time off them I lost the habituation and was left with the intolerance. I had some hope that re-establishing healthy flora would alleviate it, but no such luck. I'm testing a small amount of sprouted seeds now to see if it's the same. I would love to be able to add back sprouts. Last edited by Looweewoo; 11-06-2009 at 03:16 PM..

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11-06-2009, 06:51 AM	#1
Looweewoo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 25 Gallery: Looweewoo Stats: 420/335/325/250 - 6'2" WOE: Carnivore / T2 Diabetic Start Date: Restart 10/17/2009 The best is yet to come!	Hive Mind: Wierd Health Problems This forum is a great place to find out odd things which, if never mentioned, might go unanswered for years. For instance, the "Charlie Horse" thread which is getting several different answers. While reading and posting in that thread I suddenly remembered another cramp-like problem I was having that I have never asked ANYONE about. Why? Maybe there's a simple answer. Well, probably there are other odd health problems that people have that they never bothered to ask about that might have simple answers. Two that I wonder about of mine seem to be related. 1) Bloody nose. The slightest dry air makes my nose bleed. What causes that and is there some way to fix it? 2) My gums and palate seem to be especially thin or weak. Eating a potato chip will leave me with torn flesh in my mouth. Some nuts break in my mouth and have sharp enough edges to tear my gums to pieces. Even a broken off piece of Coconut Bark will cut me. I don't think that happens to most people and I have asked dentists and doctors all over the US. (I believe there might be an association with the tissue of my sinuses being equally thin or weak) So you add your own to this thread and maybe someone will answer. Maybe not, but if we get just a little bit of knowledge spread around, it might make a world of difference to someone. __________________ Louis Wu : Don't get me started... We could be dreaming all the time, but we do not perceive those dreams while we are awake because consciousness (like the sun obscuring stars during the day) is much too brilliant to allow the unconscious content so much definition. - Reverend Mother Anirul

11-06-2009, 06:59 AM	#2
Blood Sugar 101 MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New England Posts: 1,930 Gallery: Blood Sugar 101 Stats: 1998-2007 170/142/145---2009 149/140 WOE: Varies: Insulin with 10+g carbs. Start Date: First LC diet 1998, goal 2003, continual vigilance	Sounds like the classic signs of scurvy--vitamin C deficiency. If you are supplementing, is it possible you have a problem absorbing Vitamin C? Have you had your blood levels of Vitamin C tested?

11-06-2009, 07:16 AM	#3
PghPALady1974 Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: PITTSBURGH PA Posts: 3,041 Gallery: PghPALady1974 WOE: thru my mouth	My personal answer to #1: I get lots of nosebleeds in the winter because of dry air. Why? I know I have a blood vessel at the surface of the skin in there and when the inside of my nose is too dry it tends to rupture very easy. My own solution? Put a little Vaseline in there to keep it moist. Use a humidifier in the winter. I have had the vessel cauterized many times but it never lasts long.

11-06-2009, 07:26 AM	#4
Looweewoo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 25 Gallery: Looweewoo Stats: 420/335/325/250 - 6'2" WOE: Carnivore / T2 Diabetic Start Date: Restart 10/17/2009 The best is yet to come!	Not tested, but I've had them all my life (without any further symptoms of scurvy) even during times when I was doing very heavy C supplementation and getting tons of natural C from organic, homegrown fruits and vegetables. Right now I'm getting 300mg from my multi and much more from my salad greens. But I'll check into it, Thanks! Maybe I don't absorb C well. That would explain why I never found that all my C supplements were worth the money. Then again, the Inuit, Sami and Maasi diets suggests that Vit. C intake may not be as important as I always thought. The Wikipedia article on scurvy mentions that..."Vilhjalmur Stefansson, an arctic explorer who lived among the Eskimos, proved that the all meat diet they consumed did not lead to vitamin deficiencies. He participated in a study in New York's Bellevue Hospital in 1935, where he and a companion ate nothing but meat for a year while under close medical observation, yet remained in good health.[14] Some Antarctic expeditions, such as Scott's two expeditions and Shackleton's Ross sea party, suffered from scurvy, mainly during inland sledge journeys when the men had access to very limited range of food, virtually none of it fresh. Scurvy was rare or absent when they had access to a wider range of stored food or relied on seal meat.[13][15][16] Refined carbohydrates seem to accelerate the process of depleting vitamin C. Insulin in the bloodstream causes all amino acids, except for tryptophan, to be stored as fat. Tryptophan competes to enter the bloodstream, causing less vitamin C to be available to the body. This could be one reason sailors and explorers, with their rations heavy with hard tack biscuits and refined carbohydrates, were so prone to scurvy."

11-06-2009, 07:51 AM	#5
dixiegal MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,511 Blog Entries: 3 Gallery: dixiegal Stats: 232/ stg 179/ I'll know when I get there! WOE: atkins Start Date: restart 6/30/09	my son has had nose bleeds since he was very young. One day we where at a store and his nose started bleeding and an old man came up and told me to feed him raisins every day. I picked up some of those snack boxes and started giving a box a day and no more nose bleeds! Every now and then he'll get one and eat raisins again and they stop. I have no idea why it works.

11-06-2009, 08:51 AM	#6
goohsmom Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 396 Gallery: goohsmom Stats: restarting 10/08/09 at 185/174/152 WOE: Low Carb with running	I'll second the recommendation for petroleum jelly in the nose. It helps me with allergies as well--the pollen gets stuck and can't go any further to cause trouble. It sounds gross at first, but it definitely helps. Pam

11-06-2009, 12:30 PM	#7
Blood Sugar 101 MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New England Posts: 1,930 Gallery: Blood Sugar 101 Stats: 1998-2007 170/142/145---2009 149/140 WOE: Varies: Insulin with 10+g carbs. Start Date: First LC diet 1998, goal 2003, continual vigilance	Louis, The only way to get Vitamin C from meat is to eat the organ meats--kidneys, liver, etc. There isn't any Vitamin C in the muscles. The Inuit ate all of the animals they hunted, and people from Anglo Saxon cultures seem to have lived on kidney pie and other things we don't eat anymore in the U.S. Kidneys are a good source of Vitamin C. But if you are only eating steak or chicken wings, you can develop a deficiency.

11-06-2009, 01:37 PM	#11
Looweewoo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 25 Gallery: Looweewoo Stats: 420/335/325/250 - 6'2" WOE: Carnivore / T2 Diabetic Start Date: Restart 10/17/2009 The best is yet to come!	I know BS101 is against the Carnivore type diets, but since I do eat a wide variety of greens, I do take a multi and I do eat some organ meats, I'm not worried. I will see about Vit C malabsorption, but I don't really think that's my problem. But the main point of this thread was for everyone to bring out anything they might be wondering about, so a wider conversation can develop which might be helpful to all.

11-06-2009, 02:36 PM	#12
Houston Heather Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,914 Gallery: Houston Heather Stats: 228/169/160 Waist: 42/31/31 WOE: Atkins 2002 Ongoing Weight Loss/pre maintenance Start Date: Feb 26, 2008 (second and last time)	Once I got through the detox period, I noticed far fewer migraines. I also discovered a boatload of food intolerances and outright allergies. Did that happen with anyone else? Suddenly you realize, grains make you feel awful?

11-06-2009, 02:41 PM	#14
FlyNavyWife Senior LCF Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Valley, CA Posts: 109 Gallery: FlyNavyWife Stats: Current: 133 lbs / Goal: 120 lbs WOE: Primal	Heather I realized grains were probably the cause of most of my indigestion. I almost never have stomach trouble now.

11-06-2009, 02:42 PM	#15
Houston Heather Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,914 Gallery: Houston Heather Stats: 228/169/160 Waist: 42/31/31 WOE: Atkins 2002 Ongoing Weight Loss/pre maintenance Start Date: Feb 26, 2008 (second and last time)	I have the forbidden list... pretty much anything off plan triggers a violent migraine. Interestingly enough, the sugar migraines take 2 days to manifest.

11-06-2009, 05:02 PM	#17
SLynnB Junior LCF Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10 Gallery: SLynnB	Ever since I was a teenager (many, many long years ago), I've gotten these, for want of a better word, scratches on my back, neck, stomach and the spot will itch. Not knowing in advance that there was a scratch, I'd scratch it, the "scab" come off and it would bleed for a few minutes, stop, and be gone the next day. Not a frequent occurence but happens from time to times (still). Guess if it happened frequently, I would have brought it up, but just one of those interesting things you think everyone gets. SLynnB

11-06-2009, 05:07 PM	#18
texastigerlily Senior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 560 Blog Entries: 1 Gallery: texastigerlily Stats: 221/193/120 WOE: 20 below carbs a day	If LCing made my migraines go away, I would stay on it for life. Well...I'll stay on it anyway since my BS is under control, I'm sleeping better, and I have more energy.

11-06-2009, 11:26 PM	#20
FlyNavyWife Senior LCF Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Valley, CA Posts: 109 Gallery: FlyNavyWife Stats: Current: 133 lbs / Goal: 120 lbs WOE: Primal	Just curious. Is "hive mind" an Ender reference?

11-07-2009, 04:28 AM	#21
Looweewoo MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 25 Gallery: Looweewoo Stats: 420/335/325/250 - 6'2" WOE: Carnivore / T2 Diabetic Start Date: Restart 10/17/2009 The best is yet to come!	I love the Ender series, but not really, at least not on my part. It was Jake who used it here that I first noticed, so he would have to tell you what he intended. My thoughts went back a lot further, to some of the early Frank Herbert books.

11-07-2009, 08:27 AM	#23
Blood Sugar 101 MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New England Posts: 1,930 Gallery: Blood Sugar 101 Stats: 1998-2007 170/142/145---2009 149/140 WOE: Varies: Insulin with 10+g carbs. Start Date: First LC diet 1998, goal 2003, continual vigilance	It's worth noting the mechanism behind the increase in food intolerances. Soy contains a chemical that damages the gut lining. This allows proteins from food to get through that lining into the blood stream where it provokes autoimmune attack. If you are experiencing new food intolerances it is a very good idea to completely eliminate soy proteins from your diet.