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Old 10-24-2009, 07:58 AM   #1
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Why Stevia May Have Same Appetite Stimulation Effect as AS

After testing the Sun Crystal product I had a realization about Stevia which is worth some thought.

The rap against Artificial Sweeteners, supported very well by studies, is that they increase appetite over time and thus can contribute to weight gain.

The way they do this is that in a person with intact insulin production a sweet taste tells the brain to secrete insulin because sugar is coming in. If there is no sugar coming in, the person ends up with high insulin which can drop blood sugar. Dropping blood sugar creates hunger.

The problem isn't because the sweetener is lab created (i.e. artificial.) It is that it is sweet but does not contain carbohydrate.

Stevia is very sweet, in fact, I was really surprised at how sweet it was. Since I cut way back on AS last year a little bit of real sugar goes a long way with me. 1/2 of a packet of the Sun Crystals was far too sweet for my tastes which have been happy with 1/2 tsp of real sugar in my cocoa.

Now I don't secrete insulin in response to incoming food, so I don't have the problem of a sweet flavor causing a blood sugar drop. But in a person who can secrete what is called first phase insulin--which is anyone who isn't in the latter stages of pre- or full fledged diabetes, the sweetness of the Stevia would be more than enough to trigger insulin secretion.

And if you are hyperinsulinemic, you could secrete a lot of insulin which would not only make you hungry, but would also be capable of turning any fat you ate with your Stevia into body fat.

Bottom line: I am starting to think that for someone who is not pre- or full fledged diabetic real sugar might be superior to AS. If you cut out all sugar and sweeteners long enough to reset your taste sensitivity a very small amount of sugar will taste very sweet. If you use 2 grams of real sugar, you will secrete a very small amount of insulin that will keep blood sugar flat rather than a drop in blood sugar that will make you hungry and leave you with excess insulin.

Any thoughts here?

When I eliminate all sugars, even some vegetables taste extremely sweet in a pleasant way and regular sugar in any quantity is downright unpleasant.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:45 AM   #2
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Splenda gives me really bad cravings.....I recently stopped and switch to sweet and low. Now you have me thinking that it does not matter because if it sweet then my body is going to react anyway!!
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:19 AM   #3
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i am good w stevia and have been for years.
i am pre diabetic (although i suspect it's worse than that), eating lc for quite a while, and unmedicated (maybe that's the difference).
sugar makes my readings rise so i think i'll stick w what works.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:00 AM   #4
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If you are not diabetic or pre-diabetic and AS have not affected your hunger do you still need to worry about them?
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:41 AM   #5
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Dr Bernstein is a stevia user and he's daibetic. he admits to using quite a bit. but he uses insulin so.....i don't know.
this kind of thing has come up in the past so i'll just leave it!
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:55 AM   #6
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I have very sensitive blood sugar. I've found that aspartame, saccharine and stevia all cause me no problems in terms of response. Splenda and most of the sugar alcohols get me, though.
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:09 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by haleybop1 View Post
If you are not diabetic or pre-diabetic and AS have not affected your hunger do you still need to worry about them?
Some people say so. Usually because of the anti-"laboratory chemical" thing (Which allows Stevia), but sometimes, like me, because of the psychology of it. I don't want my brain to learn to expect sweets (This is outside what BS101 already mentioned).

I still use Splenda, but I am drifting away from it. From maybe 12-15 packs/day two weeks ago to about 3/day so far this week. Most of this is from cutting the amount in my coffee in half, then cutting my coffee drinking in half.

I still make coconut bark with splenda, and until I think of a better way to get dietary CO I will probably use it, but that's about 1/12 of a pack a day, so I don't worry about that.

I'm just trying to change the way I think about food.
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:36 AM   #8
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BS101.....So if you do not have pre diabetes then would AS cause an insulin spike and cravings??
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:48 AM   #9
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:04 PM   #10
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BS101:
I am not diabetic or pre-diabetic. I notice this too, I have intense hunger (blood sugar crash?) with any AS including stevia, I am much better off with a little bit of sugar than a substitute.
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:19 PM   #11
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I can get cravings from anything with a sweet taste, artificial or not. If I eat something sweet in the morning I have trouble staying on plan the whole day. None spike my blood glucose. It doesn't cause stalls for me but added with high fat and calorie ingredients yes it would cause a stall in weightloss. I mostly have three servings a day of some artificial sugar. I have to be careful with it.

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Old 10-24-2009, 12:29 PM   #12
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BS101.....So if you do not have pre diabetes then would AS cause an insulin spike and cravings??
Quite possibly, but because we have so many individual differences, not necessarily.

Many people can tolerate artificial sweeteners, but studies show they cause others to over eat.

This is just another of those things you have to test against your own responses.

Note that some people with pre-diabetes diagnosed via FASTING blood sugar tests only have an intact first phase insulin response but a defective BASAL response. This means they will secrete insulin in response to incoming food. It is not as common a pattern but it does occur, most often in men.
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Old 10-24-2009, 01:40 PM   #13
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I read once (but don't have the source to back it up), that it's receptors in the small intestine that register ASs as sugar and signal the release of insulin. If that's true then different artificial sweeteners could react differently in the body.

Just the sight of food can make you salivate. I'm sure the taste of sweet does start up insulin as well.
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Old 10-24-2009, 03:11 PM   #14
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Sun Crystals HAS sugar in it. Could that be the reason for the spike?
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Old 10-24-2009, 03:12 PM   #15
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FAQ
Frequently Asked Questions about SUN CRYSTALS®.
Click on the questions below to reveal the answers.

What is SUN CRYSTALS® All-Natural Sweetener?

SUN CRYSTALS® All-Natural Sweetener is a new, delicious low-calorie sweetener made from the naturally sweet stevia plant, pure cane sugar and nothing else. It uses the sweetest, best-tasting part of the stevia plant and blends it with pure cane sugar, an all-natural sugar found on tables throughout the world. The blend gives you a delicious sweet taste that is 100% natural and low in calories. SUN CRYSTALS® All-Natural Sweetener is now available in packet and granulated form.
What are the ingredients in SUN CRYSTALS® All-Natural Sweetener?

SUN CRYSTALS® All-Natural Sweeteners are made from two simple ingredients — naturally sweet stevia and pure cane sugar. Stevia is a naturally sweet plant native to the highlands of South America. Pure cane sugar is the same sugar you already know and love.
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Old 10-24-2009, 04:52 PM   #16
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As I posted, Sun Crystals has 1 gram of sugar per packet.

The most that amount of sugar can raise your blood sugar is 5 mg/dl, assuming you weigh 140 lbs. If you weigh more, it raises it less. 2.5 mg/dl is how much it raises the blood sugar of someone 280 lbs.

That is not a spike. In fact, it is within the normal minute to minute variation you experience in blood sugar even when you don't eat.

If you use 1/2 a packet it's not enough to produce a detectible rise at all.

If you used a half cup it could cause problems, but they don't sell it in those kinds of quantities.
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:37 AM   #17
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I found that all AS made me hungry, so I just eliminated them. I've found that although I have a major sweet tooth (never met a dessert I didn't like:-)
going off all things sweet is much better for me overall.

I now try to eat "primal" as much as possible with fish, meat, eggs, veggies, olive oil and occasional nuts (my treat rather than sugar). And I feel much better physically.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:02 AM   #18
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I used Stevia liquid in coffee and iced tea (I don't have iced tea often). I do not see a correlation between Stevia and my BG, and I do not feel hungry. Coffee is somewhat bitter. The Stevia calms the bitterness, but I don't use enough to make it taste sweet. I have noticed hunger and carb cravings after drinking diet colas - that's why I cut them out.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Sugar 101 View Post
A couple issues to clarify.

1. Splenda powder DOES contain sugar--maltodextrin, so if you used any significant amount of Splenda powder it will raise blood sugar. The pure liquid form does not. If you use DaVinci sugar free syrups with Splenda there is ZERO impact on blood sugar as they contain zero sugar.

Maltitol and lacitol convert into glucose in your body and also raise blood sugar, often a lot.

.
Could this be why I can have DaVinci syrups in my coffee and not suffer cravings, BUT the minute I touch an Atkins bar or drink I have cravings? Don't the Atkins products have Malitol in them? (or something similar)
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:52 PM   #20
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Marking my spot. Good topic!
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Splenda gives me really bad cravings.....I recently stopped and switch to sweet and low. Now you have me thinking that it does not matter because if it sweet then my body is going to react anyway!!
Yeah, I'm a user of Sweet and Low for my coffee addiction too. However I am a full blown T2 diabetic for 20 years but with really low body fat levels for about a yr. or so. With my VLC regimen, I do believe I'm still burning more fat and gaining muscle mass currently.

Regarding the hunger issue, I've been fortunate as of late (for about a yr.) with little "traditional" triggers requiring one to want to eat. Rather I have to remind myself TO eat.

Last edited by chiody; 10-25-2009 at 06:38 PM..
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:35 PM   #22
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I looked on my box of sweet leaf and on my box of stuff I got at Walmart. The Walmart stuff has Maltadextrin.

Sweet Leaf is just stevia and some fiber.

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Old 10-27-2009, 08:28 AM   #23
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I have been letting my self have "snack" types of stuff on the weekend like sugar free jello flavored cream cheese and such. This is a habit I picked up from a book called "The No S Diet" whose line boils down to "No snacks, no sweets, and no seconds; except on Saturdays, Sundays and Special Days" . However I find the 3 meal (1 plate at each meal) and treating weekends as special (and days like birthdays) with a little snacking works well. This all seems to work pretty well along with a low carb diet.
I will agree with the no snacking. Just quitting that helps me a lot, when I can make myself do it. I think society has trained us to snack a lot, though......
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:30 AM   #24
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After testing the Sun Crystal product I had a realization about Stevia which is worth some thought.

The rap against Artificial Sweeteners, supported very well by studies, is that they increase appetite over time and thus can contribute to weight gain.

The way they do this is that in a person with intact insulin production a sweet taste tells the brain to secrete insulin because sugar is coming in. If there is no sugar coming in, the person ends up with high insulin which can drop blood sugar. Dropping blood sugar creates hunger.

The problem isn't because the sweetener is lab created (i.e. artificial.) It is that it is sweet but does not contain carbohydrate.

Stevia is very sweet, in fact, I was really surprised at how sweet it was. Since I cut way back on AS last year a little bit of real sugar goes a long way with me. 1/2 of a packet of the Sun Crystals was far too sweet for my tastes which have been happy with 1/2 tsp of real sugar in my cocoa.

Now I don't secrete insulin in response to incoming food, so I don't have the problem of a sweet flavor causing a blood sugar drop. But in a person who can secrete what is called first phase insulin--which is anyone who isn't in the latter stages of pre- or full fledged diabetes, the sweetness of the Stevia would be more than enough to trigger insulin secretion.

And if you are hyperinsulinemic, you could secrete a lot of insulin which would not only make you hungry, but would also be capable of turning any fat you ate with your Stevia into body fat.

Bottom line: I am starting to think that for someone who is not pre- or full fledged diabetic real sugar might be superior to AS. If you cut out all sugar and sweeteners long enough to reset your taste sensitivity a very small amount of sugar will taste very sweet. If you use 2 grams of real sugar, you will secrete a very small amount of insulin that will keep blood sugar flat rather than a drop in blood sugar that will make you hungry and leave you with excess insulin.

Any thoughts here?

When I eliminate all sugars, even some vegetables taste extremely sweet in a pleasant way and regular sugar in any quantity is downright unpleasant.

I don't quite see what you are saying here, i.e. where is the proof that stevia increases appetite. But you know what? I believe it does because it did with me. I started using it when on a low carb diet. I had cut out all wheat and plain sugar, but I couldn't stop eating. Last time I was on a low carb diet my appetite decreased over the ten days after starting it. This time. NOPE. Other scientific research says it doesn't increase appetite. Here:

Quote:
"Appetite. 2010 Aug;55(1):37-43. doi: 10.1016/j.appet.2010.03.009. Epub 2010 Mar 18.

Effects of stevia, aspartame, and sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels.

Anton SD, Martin CK, Han H, Coulon S, Cefalu WT, Geiselman P, Williamson DA.

Source

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA, United States.

Abstract

Consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may be one of the dietary causes of metabolic disorders, such as obesity. Therefore, substituting sugar with low calorie sweeteners may be an efficacious weight management strategy. We tested the effect of preloads containing stevia, aspartame, or sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels. Design: 19 healthy lean (BMI=20.0-24.9) and 12 obese (BMI=30.0-39.9) individuals 18-50 years old completed three separate food test days during which they received preloads containing stevia (290kcal), aspartame (290kcal), or sucrose (493kcal) before the lunch and dinner meal. The preload order was balanced, and food intake (kcal) was directly calculated. Hunger and satiety levels were reported before and after meals, and every hour throughout the afternoon. Participants provided blood samples immediately before and 20min after the lunch preload. Despite the caloric difference in preloads (290kcal vs. 493kcal), participants did not compensate by eating more at their lunch and dinner meals when they consumed stevia and aspartame versus sucrose in preloads (mean differences in food intake over entire day between sucrose and stevia=301kcal, p<.01; aspartame=330kcal, p<.01). Self-reported hunger and satiety levels did not differ by condition. Stevia preloads significantly reduced postprandial glucose levels compared to sucrose preloads (p<.01), and postprandial insulin levels compared to both aspartame and sucrose preloads (p<.05). When consuming stevia and aspartame preloads, participants did not compensate by eating more at either their lunch or dinner meal and reported similar levels of satiety compared to when they consumed the higher calorie sucrose preload."

I personally think this article sent to me by a dr. is not correct.


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Old 04-19-2013, 07:35 AM   #25
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Stevia doesn't do anything negative to me... I use it 3-4 times a day in my ACV tonics every day, and I never get increased hunger or BG problems from it. No issues with hunger related to Splenda either. The only AS I have issues with other than the sugar alcohols is aspartame... and while I'm not sure if it actually makes me hungrier or triggers cravings, I DO know that it was stalling me a while back. So I cut it out
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #26
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It seems to me that there was a lot of good information here, but also some disinformation. DH is type one following Dr. Bernsteins diet. Dr B recommends cutting out all powdered AS, because they contain Maltodextrin or Dextrose. Both of which can cause a blood sugar rise in type 1's, which means that it causes an insulin response in anyone else. So for someone with a disturbed metabolism, like me, it can cause me to produce too much insulin and a dropping of my blood sugars faster than normal, then cravings.
Also, when your blood sugar drops too fast, or too low, for example if DH goes hypo, he has rebound hunger for about 24 hours after. It doesn't matter how well he keeps it balanced afterwards, he is still extra hungry and craving. My experiences with reactive hypoglycemia are similar, and create a viscous cycle.

There is the *theory* that AS will cause cravings because sweet foods trigger something in the brain, but this as far as I know, has not been proven scientifically.

The liquid forms of AS, without the fillers, do not cause the BS responses. So the sf davinci's and recently I found little round bottles of liquid splenda and stevia. Also if you can find them, the tablets do not have fillers either.

I HAVE wondered if the problem that some people have with splenda relates to it being made from sugar? Here is the wikipedia article about splenda, that does a good job descibing how they make splenda and about actual calorie count Splenda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I have also read somewhere, and I can't find it, that Splenda affects the digestive flora negatively.

As for Stevia, I might start going to the health food store to find the extract, rather than t he commercial stuff mixed with fillers after reading this on wiki ( the health and safety section esp) Stevia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and yes I am aware of what wikipedia is But I also know that I can look up the studies myself, and make up my own mind, on the possibility that it can help my pancreas heal faster/more etc.

With all of this in mind, I don't think one or two packets a day a dealbreaker for me, so much as something to acknowledge if I start having cravings. Although for DH, they are something to be avoided, unless he runs out of the liquid without telling me. . .
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:34 PM   #27
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There is the *theory* that AS will cause cravings because sweet foods trigger something in the brain,
i had wondered if this is what was doing it. it makes sense to me somehow.

i am not sure if my stevia was mixed with fillers. i got it from the health food store but that means nothing. it just felt that once i started eating it i wanted more and more. i was putting it in plain yogurt and would eat a quart of it a day. threw out the stevia and now i am not interested in my yogurt, although i will finish it up in a smoothie someday.
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