Serotonin=carb, Depression?

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 08:29 AM

I have been doing a considrable amount of research on low carb and depression. There are very conflicting studies. I have just barely scratched the surface, but i wanted to bring it up so i could get some research points. I hear people talk about how their blood sugar relugates and so does mood, however i hear how carbs make serotonin.

When you eat carbs like pasta, rice, potatoes, pretzels, and tortillas, a series of biochemical reactions is set off such that your brain makes serotonin. Serotonin shuts off your appetite and serotonin makes you feel good and gives you mental energy which can also help you lose weight. For those that already experience depression, boosting your mood and being able to lose weight are significant benefits.

One of the things i came across was The Serotonin Power Diet (havent looked into it much as of yet).

"The brain uses tryptophan to make serotonin, a brain chemical that among other tasks, regulates mood and appetite. Even though there is plenty of tryptophan in the blood that circulates around the body, tryptophan has great difficulty getting from the blood stream into the brain. It enters the brain easily only after carbohydrates are eaten. The carbohydrates must be starchy or sweet-but cannot be the carbohydrate in fruit. If carbohydrates are eaten along with protein, such as fish and rice or a tuna sandwich, no tryptophan gets in the brain. Also, a certain amount of carbohydrates is needed to cause insulin to be released and is essential to moving tryptophan into the brain. Protein interferes with this process so it should be eaten separately from carbs at times when serotonin levels are naturally high which happens to be the first half of the day."

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 08:38 AM

"Make sure you have protein and, if you choose, fruit, in the early parts of the day. Then, when you need a serotonin boost, for example late in the afternoon, in the evening, or during periods of stress, eat fat free or low fat carbohydrates. "

funkycamper · 07-02-2009, 08:45 AM

Well, my personal, anecdotal evidence says this is hogwash. The only times I have suffered from depression is when I have been eating high-carb. The only times I have not been chronically depressed is when I eat low-carb.

In fact, just this week, I had a lesson to prove how true this is. I'm not one that does well with all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking or behaviors. I'm far more successful sticking to low-carb eating over the long-term if I know that I can occasionally eat something off-plan. When I do, I plan for eat and modify for it. Usually, anyway.

So, on Sunday I'm volunteering at my local Habitat for Humanity's elephant ear booth and decided to allow myself to eat half of one knowing that I was going to be doing a lot of walking after my shift was over and walking has always been a very helpful way for me to process excess carbs. So, at the end of my shift, I ate that half-ear, walked for several hours, and ate very clean the rest of the day. The next morning I woke up feeling like I had a bit of a carb hangover but nothing major. I was getting ready to ride my bike to the YMCA to lift some weights to process the rest of the excess insulin I could tell was still in my system...and that's when the trouble started.

My son and his fiance came by with a cake-box full of small pieces of cake and cups of various frostings that they were trying out for their wedding cake. While I didn't have much (not like the old days when I would have scarfed it down!), I did have a few tastes. Since my son lives 3 hours away and this was a surprise visit to town, we visited for several hours and I never did get time to get in the bike ride or weight-lifting as my mom and I were going to my niece's for dinner.

So, I get to dinner and it's all high-carb offerings. While I tried to pick around the carbs, I definitely ingested more carbs than I should have...especially after all the other carbs I had eaten earlier that day and the day before.

OK, I'm kinda unsure if the negative physical responses cause the emotional upset or what but, by the time I got home, I had achey joints, throbbing legs, twitchy little nerve pains shooting into my toes, a headache, and felt so crabby that I think my husband went to bed early just to avoid me.

Eating very low-carb and clean, and doing a few extra walks (two a day instead of my usual one) for two days have finally made me feel better physically and my mood is now good again but it was a touchy couple of days.

I NEVER, never, Never! feel crabby, anxious, and negative unless I've eaten too many carbs.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 08:47 AM

Did you east protein at the same time as the carbs?

funkycamper · 07-02-2009, 08:59 AM

Only at dinner...a small amount of chicken in the chicken salad.

I have spent most of my adult life fighting depression and, during most of my adult life, I ate low-fat/high-carb, with very limited protein. It made me fat and grumpy. So my personal results are the opposite of what they are claiming. YMMV.

2big4mysize · 07-02-2009, 10:30 AM

Just a little clarification for your article.

Trytophan is an amino acid found in many protein foods so one must eat protein to have tryptophan for making serotonin.

actually they have confused carbs in the diet with carbs in the body. glucose, a carbohydrate, in the body triggers insulin release regardless of what food it came from. That is why fruit sugars don't trigger the insulin release. Low carbers make glucose from eatten carbs, spent glycolisis carbs, proteins and the hydrocarbon backbone of fats.

there was a low carb study done with folk who had low serotonin depression a few yrs ago and what they did was bolus their carbs about 40 grams in one meal along with a high tryptophan food. They believed it help so it was hard to tell if it was a placebo effect or not since it was not a scientific study just a low carb group doing a study on themselves. Dana Carpender wrote about it on her holdthetoast site if you can find it.

exercise like walking will produce some feel good brain chems called endorphins as will exercise of just about any kind and can help lift a persons mood.

Sandi76 · 07-02-2009, 10:50 AM

All I know is this made me go "huh?" I am HORRIBLE at processing this kind of reading.

I honestly don't know if low carb would help my depression as I was on meds before I low carbed. I think it does help me get over the hump of summer without additional meds (I have reverse seasonal affective disorder) where as before LC I was just a little more down during the summer. Before meds AND LC my summers were nothing more than screaming at everyone and crying from constant migraines.

Houston Heather · 07-02-2009, 11:31 AM

Don't have time to read the whole thread...

But in my case, very bad suicidal depressions with hallucinations and all... sugar is a mood poison.

Cutting out the sugar and carbs was the best thing I ever did for my illness.

It really depends on the person.

I am told caffeine is also "bad" for my illness, but I do plenty of caffeine when I'm depressed. Since I'm bipolar, Inositol is also reccomended.

Chasintrail · 07-02-2009, 11:43 AM

From my personal experience, I really don't buy the carbs=serotonin or necessarily the low-serotonin=depression theories.

When I'm strict low carb, I am never depressed. My non low carb eating patterns do usually include carbs and protein together (I live on sandwiches - they always include meat). Too much bread (carbs) and I'm depressed/anxious/*****y.

I'm suspicious of the low-serotonin=depression theory simply becuase SSRIs made me more depressed. Potatoes not prozac recommended carbs prior to bed, this just made me depressed and gave me insomnia.

YMMV

wannabethin55 · 07-02-2009, 12:07 PM

I'm weaning off of my anti-depressent and am taking Tyrosine. It seems to be working. I haven't been w/out an anti-depressent in years. WOOHOO! So this supplement and a low carb life style is so far working for me. Good luck!

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 12:40 PM

Interesting, do you think any part of you being happy is with you getting thin?
No binging and feeling bad etc.

The interesting thing is you cant have protein with the carbs, it must be the right amount, at a certain time, and a certain kind of carb. I was just talking with a few doctors (nuro and MD, also a dietitian specializing in mental illness) today about it at lunch, we were comparing studies. Our 40 minute lunch ended up lasting 3 hours... oops.

Mayberryfan · 07-02-2009, 02:00 PM

For me, eating high carb and getting the mood swings that go with high, then low blood sugar was BAD.

This study may be valid for people who are not sensitive to carbs and/or insulin resistant...but it's not for me!

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 02:35 PM

Here is a few more details for the phase 1, then it tapers off the snacks:

Phase 1: Serotonin Surge Snacking Schedule:

* Snack 1: eat an hour before lunch
* snack 2: eat mid to late afternoon 3 or 4 hours after lunch
* snack 3: eat in mid-evening 2 or 3 hours after dinner

Phase 1 snack guidelines:

* 30-40 grams of sweet or starchy carbs or a combo of both. If you have less than 15 pounds to lose then make sure it's under 30 grams of carbs.
* 1-3 grams of fat and no trans fat
* less than 5 grams of protein
* no more than 180 calories

Serotonin Power Diet Recommended Snacks:

* bread stick, breakfast cereals, biscotti (low-fat)
* cinnamon raisin bread, whole wheat english muffin
* fat free fig newtons, fat free graham crackers (two of my favorites)
* granola bars, fat free hot chocolate, marshmallows
* whole wheat matzo, oyster crackers, small pita bread
* air popped popcorn, pretzels, rice cakes
* saltines, soda crackers, tea biscuits
* the alternative bagel, toaster waffles

Houston Heather · 07-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Eating like that would make me worse. I've learned I have pretty considerable food intolerances, and the grains and gluten would make my body/mind freak!

Oddly enough, while I do take Lexapro I find my lithium carbonate to be the best antidepressant. I've been running depressed this week - upped my lithium per doctor's orders, and I am pretty "normal" now.

The one time I ever upped the Lexapro, doctor's orders, it just made me mixed (hyper and depressed at the same time, horrible).

Eating FATS always helps when I'm depressed. Anyone else ever read Nutrition and Your Mind? The author theorized that we were basically either a carb responder or a fat responder - eating the wrong macronutrient would make us worse, and eating the proper macronutrient would make us better.

I'm DEFINITELY a fat responder. If I'm "off" (up, down, or both), I up my fat intake to about 80% and I always see an improvement within a meal or two, as I also increase my prescriptions. If I eat the same, the meds work, but not as well or as quickly.

Remykins · 07-02-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houston Heather

Anyone else ever read Nutrition and Your Mind?

Thats on my list to read, i cant get to all of them fast enough

KutiePie · 07-02-2009, 03:11 PM

When reading all the various posts and threads, it is very interesting to see how differently we all react to various foods and WOE.

It is fascinating to see that what works great for some people, fails miserably for another. It shows you how in so many ways we are the same, and in others how really "individual" we are.

beachguy · 07-02-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

THURSDAY, June 18 (HealthDay News) -- New research suggests a relationship between low levels of omega-3 fatty acids and an increased risk of depression in heart patients. Omega-3 Fatty Acids Might Curb Depression - Depression Symptoms, Causes, and Treatments Including Clinical and Manic Depression on MedicineNet.com

So I'm guessing some low carbers might feel better because of the increased omega-3's (rather than an increase in serotonin).

hotmama_007 · 07-02-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remykins

Serotonin Power Diet Recommended Snacks:

* bread stick, breakfast cereals, biscotti (low-fat)
* cinnamon raisin bread, whole wheat english muffin
* fat free fig newtons, fat free graham crackers (two of my favorites)
* granola bars, fat free hot chocolate, marshmallows
* whole wheat matzo, oyster crackers, small pita bread
* air popped popcorn, pretzels, rice cakes
* saltines, soda crackers, tea biscuits
* the alternative bagel, toaster waffles

Look at that! All my favorite things to eat in one sitting! I begin to salivate just reading the list. LOL.... thank g*d LC gives you some control over it all....

Mushy2008 · 07-02-2009, 09:41 PM

Definitely not true with me, trust me, I've been through a lot, and I'm happier than ever doing low carb.
And I'm under 10 carbs per day

2big4mysize · 07-03-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remykins

Here is a few more details for the phase 1, then it tapers off the snacks:

Phase 1: Serotonin Surge Snacking Schedule:

* Snack 1: eat an hour before lunch
* snack 2: eat mid to late afternoon 3 or 4 hours after lunch
* snack 3: eat in mid-evening 2 or 3 hours after dinner

Phase 1 snack guidelines:

* 30-40 grams of sweet or starchy carbs or a combo of both. If you have less than 15 pounds to lose then make sure it's under 30 grams of carbs.
* 1-3 grams of fat and no trans fat
* less than 5 grams of protein
* no more than 180 calories

Serotonin Power Diet Recommended Snacks:

* bread stick, breakfast cereals, biscotti (low-fat)
* cinnamon raisin bread, whole wheat english muffin
* fat free fig newtons, fat free graham crackers (two of my favorites)
* granola bars, fat free hot chocolate, marshmallows
* whole wheat matzo, oyster crackers, small pita bread
* air popped popcorn, pretzels, rice cakes
* saltines, soda crackers, tea biscuits
* the alternative bagel, toaster waffles

what on earth is their reason for low fat? they said it was protein interferance yet they make a point of low fat the eating

mamabear6 · 07-03-2009, 09:17 AM

I've battled depression since I was 14-15 years old. Only since eating and staying with a low carb WOE have I been able to forget about medication and live a pretty much depression-free life. I'm reactive hypoglycemic as well, so yes when I eat carbs it makes me feel like crap and can make me feel depressed.
I try to make sure I'm getting enough good fats, too. I eat salmon 1-2x a week and take an Omega 3/6/9 supplement every day along with a vitamin to make sure I'm getting enough D.
I wish I had known eating this way could make me feel so normal a long time ago.

Edited to add: If I could afford it, I'd eat salmon every day lol

Mayberryfan · 07-03-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2big4mysize

what on earth is their reason for low fat? they said it was protein interferance yet they make a point of low fat the eating

From the casual observers point of view, it looks like a new way to market the standard American diet, the standard food pyramid, blah, blah, blah.

Sure, it will work fine for some people, for me, not a chance! Eating like that (what I was told over and over and over again was healthy

) is what got me 100 lbs. overweight.

Avoiding all that stuff like the plague is what has helped me lose roughly 60 lbs. so far. I'm not going back for ANYTHING!

funkycamper · 07-03-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remykins

Here is a few more details for the phase 1, then it tapers off the snacks:

Phase 1: Serotonin Surge Snacking Schedule:

* Snack 1: eat an hour before lunch
* snack 2: eat mid to late afternoon 3 or 4 hours after lunch
* snack 3: eat in mid-evening 2 or 3 hours after dinner

Phase 1 snack guidelines:

* 30-40 grams of sweet or starchy carbs or a combo of both. If you have less than 15 pounds to lose then make sure it's under 30 grams of carbs.
* 1-3 grams of fat and no trans fat
* less than 5 grams of protein
* no more than 180 calories

Serotonin Power Diet Recommended Snacks:

* bread stick, breakfast cereals, biscotti (low-fat)
* cinnamon raisin bread, whole wheat english muffin
* fat free fig newtons, fat free graham crackers (two of my favorites)
* granola bars, fat free hot chocolate, marshmallows
* whole wheat matzo, oyster crackers, small pita bread
* air popped popcorn, pretzels, rice cakes
* saltines, soda crackers, tea biscuits
* the alternative bagel, toaster waffles

Wow, that's exactly how I ate during the 20 years when I gained weight and when I was the most depressed.

And, no, better moods are not connected to weight loss. Not at all. I lose very slowly and even though I have indicated elsewhere that I am dropping inches very easily eating low-carb, it is still quite slow-going compared to some people. After two months back on track, my pants are very loose but I'm not necessarily down a whole pants size. So the easy dropping of inches is just easy in comparison to low-fat/high-carb dieting (at which I gained unless I was starving all the time).

But, then again, I don't even own a scale and don't give a crap what I weigh. My main reason for eating this way is to improve my health, regain my vitality, and stabilize my moods. Losing inches/clothing sizes is just a nice side-benefit.

And I do want to emphasize that it's not just that my moods are better but that they are more stable. Without the roller-coaster that eatings carbs does to my blood sugars/insulin levels, I'm happier because I'm calmer, because I'm not a slave to mood swings beyond my control that I have to fight myself to hide from others (like crabby responses, mean-spirited thinking that I know I really don't mean, etc.)

In fact, I look at that with the carb-based/low-fat treats between meals and it's very similar to the last time I tried Weight Watchers years ago. That was the worst two months of my life during which I lost about 3# but was an emotional wreck, so witchy I could barely live with myself and I have no idea how my family could stand it. I was so food obsessed that it was ridiculous but only because I was starving all the time. I even found it hard to sleep at night because my stomach would be growling all night.

I think it's possible that one of the mood elevators of low-carbing is that I'm free from food. In fact, there are days when I'm busy that I almost forget to eat at all.

Anyway, eating that way would just put me back into that vicious cycle of chronic hunger and mood-swings. Yuck!

Remykins · 07-03-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2big4mysize

what on earth is their reason for low fat? they said it was protein interferance yet they make a point of low fat the eating

If you read the book (and the other studies), it talks about fat slowing the process. So during those times, low fat is recomended. and it is only for 12 weeks, 3 phases.

I have talked to quite a few docotors, MD and otherwise, they all agree that the science is right, the presentation may not be so i am very intrigued to say the least.

funkycamper · 07-03-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remykins

I have talked to quite a few docotors, MD and otherwise, they all agree that the science is right, the presentation may not be so i am very intrigued to say the least.

Well, don't most doctors say high-carb/low-fat is the right way to lose weight, control diabetes, etc.? I'm not impressed.

If you try out this eating plan, I will be interested to see if it works for you.

Remykins · 07-03-2009, 10:31 AM

None of the doctors i know say high carb low fat, all of them go for low carb diets (under 60g). You could do this plan and still keep your carbs near 60. I am going to keep researching, i am actually going to do some phone and email interviews with a few people that have done it. The success rate is very high even with those who were previously on atkins, or other low carb plans. I guess we will wait and see..

BillB · 07-03-2009, 10:46 AM

Check into 5-htp for depression.

DJ · 07-04-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houston Heather

Don't have time to read the whole thread...

But in my case, very bad suicidal depressions with hallucinations and all... sugar is a mood poison.

Cutting out the sugar and carbs was the best thing I ever did for my illness.

It really depends on the person.

ITA. I also have bipolar disorder and have battled depression for years and for me sugar and carbs are absolute mood poison as well. It might be a YMMV type thing but in my experience my moods are a LOT better and my depression feels more under control when I'm stricter about my carb intake. Of course, it doesn't "fix" it completely, but I feel a very marked difference when I cut out the carbs and eat lots of fatty fish, greens and olive oil. It makes a huge difference for me.

Blood Sugar 101 · 07-05-2009, 05:26 AM

The serotonin/depression theory is oversimplistic and probably not true. The drug companies used the serotonin-depression theory to promote the SSRIs when they thought these drugs raised serotonin. It turns out that long term, they don't. SSRIs have been found instead to work by modifying the neurons in the hippocampus. This is why it takes 3 weeks for them to kick in.

There is, however, a relationship between blood sugar and mood, and much of the improvement people attribute to low carbing comes from the fact that if they cut carbs they stop experiencing intense blood sugar swings.

Blood sugar swings cause stress hormone releases and these cause anxiety. They can also cause exhaustion--the "eat ice cream and fall into a deep sleep" effect, which is also depressing. Many of us respond to physiological anxiety by getting depressed. High blood sugar can also have an impact on our female hormone balance which can also lead to depression.

If you have gluten intolerance, as many people seem to do, cutting gluten out of your diet along with the grains will reduce inflammation and this too can have a positive effect on your mood.

Not everyone experiences mood improvement with LC. And over time your mood may change and you may do better on a non-ketogenic moderate carb diet closer to 100 g than 20 a day.

Everyone is different. One thing is sure, there is no simple explanation for depression. And some depression is a healthy sign that you need to make some changes in your life. It may be a smoke alarm--turning it off without finding out if there is a real fire can be very dangerous. I had a lot of depression in my youth that vanished when I finally got some job training that let me work at a decent professional job instead of dead end typing. My "depression" was a reasonable response to wasting my brains. Medicating that depression away so I could be happy at my dead end job would have been disastrous.

suzabelle · 07-05-2009, 05:44 AM

I do not see any connection whatsoever for myself in not eating carbs and depression. And for me, carbs do not satisfy my hunger. Within an hour of eating carbs I just want more food!! When I am eating LC my blood sugar and my mood is completely stable. I feel much happier (probably because PHYSICALLY I feel so much better) when I'm consistently eating LC. You said you've done research but didn't mention a source that I saw. It sounds a lot like food combining to me, which many people really believe in, but others think is, as one poster said....hogwash.

07-02-2009, 08:29 AM	#1
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	Serotonin=carb, Depression? I have been doing a considrable amount of research on low carb and depression. There are very conflicting studies. I have just barely scratched the surface, but i wanted to bring it up so i could get some research points. I hear people talk about how their blood sugar relugates and so does mood, however i hear how carbs make serotonin. When you eat carbs like pasta, rice, potatoes, pretzels, and tortillas, a series of biochemical reactions is set off such that your brain makes serotonin. Serotonin shuts off your appetite and serotonin makes you feel good and gives you mental energy which can also help you lose weight. For those that already experience depression, boosting your mood and being able to lose weight are significant benefits. One of the things i came across was The Serotonin Power Diet (havent looked into it much as of yet). "The brain uses tryptophan to make serotonin, a brain chemical that among other tasks, regulates mood and appetite. Even though there is plenty of tryptophan in the blood that circulates around the body, tryptophan has great difficulty getting from the blood stream into the brain. It enters the brain easily only after carbohydrates are eaten. The carbohydrates must be starchy or sweet-but cannot be the carbohydrate in fruit. If carbohydrates are eaten along with protein, such as fish and rice or a tuna sandwich, no tryptophan gets in the brain. Also, a certain amount of carbohydrates is needed to cause insulin to be released and is essential to moving tryptophan into the brain. Protein interferes with this process so it should be eaten separately from carbs at times when serotonin levels are naturally high which happens to be the first half of the day."

07-02-2009, 08:45 AM	#3
funkycamper MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,910 Gallery: funkycamper Stats: Size 24/14/?? WOE: low carb/mod protein/high fat	Well, my personal, anecdotal evidence says this is hogwash. The only times I have suffered from depression is when I have been eating high-carb. The only times I have not been chronically depressed is when I eat low-carb. In fact, just this week, I had a lesson to prove how true this is. I'm not one that does well with all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking or behaviors. I'm far more successful sticking to low-carb eating over the long-term if I know that I can occasionally eat something off-plan. When I do, I plan for eat and modify for it. Usually, anyway. So, on Sunday I'm volunteering at my local Habitat for Humanity's elephant ear booth and decided to allow myself to eat half of one knowing that I was going to be doing a lot of walking after my shift was over and walking has always been a very helpful way for me to process excess carbs. So, at the end of my shift, I ate that half-ear, walked for several hours, and ate very clean the rest of the day. The next morning I woke up feeling like I had a bit of a carb hangover but nothing major. I was getting ready to ride my bike to the YMCA to lift some weights to process the rest of the excess insulin I could tell was still in my system...and that's when the trouble started. My son and his fiance came by with a cake-box full of small pieces of cake and cups of various frostings that they were trying out for their wedding cake. While I didn't have much (not like the old days when I would have scarfed it down!), I did have a few tastes. Since my son lives 3 hours away and this was a surprise visit to town, we visited for several hours and I never did get time to get in the bike ride or weight-lifting as my mom and I were going to my niece's for dinner. So, I get to dinner and it's all high-carb offerings. While I tried to pick around the carbs, I definitely ingested more carbs than I should have...especially after all the other carbs I had eaten earlier that day and the day before. OK, I'm kinda unsure if the negative physical responses cause the emotional upset or what but, by the time I got home, I had achey joints, throbbing legs, twitchy little nerve pains shooting into my toes, a headache, and felt so crabby that I think my husband went to bed early just to avoid me. Eating very low-carb and clean, and doing a few extra walks (two a day instead of my usual one) for two days have finally made me feel better physically and my mood is now good again but it was a touchy couple of days. I NEVER, never, Never! feel crabby, anxious, and negative unless I've eaten too many carbs. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. __________________ "I might as well face it I'm addicted to spuds." - Weird Al

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07-02-2009, 08:38 AM	#2
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	"Make sure you have protein and, if you choose, fruit, in the early parts of the day. Then, when you need a serotonin boost, for example late in the afternoon, in the evening, or during periods of stress, eat fat free or low fat carbohydrates. "

07-02-2009, 08:47 AM	#4
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	Did you east protein at the same time as the carbs?

07-02-2009, 08:59 AM	#5
funkycamper MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,910 Gallery: funkycamper Stats: Size 24/14/?? WOE: low carb/mod protein/high fat	Only at dinner...a small amount of chicken in the chicken salad. I have spent most of my adult life fighting depression and, during most of my adult life, I ate low-fat/high-carb, with very limited protein. It made me fat and grumpy. So my personal results are the opposite of what they are claiming. YMMV.

07-02-2009, 10:30 AM	#6
2big4mysize Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,307 Gallery: 2big4mysize Stats: 313 to current goalie 169-173 WOE: Atkins 2002 Start Date: june 1 2002	Just a little clarification for your article. Trytophan is an amino acid found in many protein foods so one must eat protein to have tryptophan for making serotonin. actually they have confused carbs in the diet with carbs in the body. glucose, a carbohydrate, in the body triggers insulin release regardless of what food it came from. That is why fruit sugars don't trigger the insulin release. Low carbers make glucose from eatten carbs, spent glycolisis carbs, proteins and the hydrocarbon backbone of fats. there was a low carb study done with folk who had low serotonin depression a few yrs ago and what they did was bolus their carbs about 40 grams in one meal along with a high tryptophan food. They believed it help so it was hard to tell if it was a placebo effect or not since it was not a scientific study just a low carb group doing a study on themselves. Dana Carpender wrote about it on her holdthetoast site if you can find it. exercise like walking will produce some feel good brain chems called endorphins as will exercise of just about any kind and can help lift a persons mood.

07-02-2009, 10:50 AM	#7
Sandi76 Senior LCF Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Posts: 981 Gallery: Sandi76 Stats: 236/214.5/180 WOE: Atkins Start Date: May 15th 2008	All I know is this made me go "huh?" I am HORRIBLE at processing this kind of reading. I honestly don't know if low carb would help my depression as I was on meds before I low carbed. I think it does help me get over the hump of summer without additional meds (I have reverse seasonal affective disorder) where as before LC I was just a little more down during the summer. Before meds AND LC my summers were nothing more than screaming at everyone and crying from constant migraines.

07-02-2009, 11:31 AM	#8
Houston Heather Guest Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 9,854 Gallery: Houston Heather Stats: 228/166/160 Waist: 42/31/31 WOE: Atkins 2002 Ongoing Weight Loss/pre maintenance Start Date: Feb 26, 2008 (second and last time)	Don't have time to read the whole thread... But in my case, very bad suicidal depressions with hallucinations and all... sugar is a mood poison. Cutting out the sugar and carbs was the best thing I ever did for my illness. It really depends on the person. I am told caffeine is also "bad" for my illness, but I do plenty of caffeine when I'm depressed. Since I'm bipolar, Inositol is also reccomended.

07-02-2009, 11:43 AM	#9
Chasintrail Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,335 Gallery: Chasintrail Stats: 205/? size 10/8-10 5'6" WOE: Primal - high-fat/real food	From my personal experience, I really don't buy the carbs=serotonin or necessarily the low-serotonin=depression theories. When I'm strict low carb, I am never depressed. My non low carb eating patterns do usually include carbs and protein together (I live on sandwiches - they always include meat). Too much bread (carbs) and I'm depressed/anxious/*****y. I'm suspicious of the low-serotonin=depression theory simply becuase SSRIs made me more depressed. Potatoes not prozac recommended carbs prior to bed, this just made me depressed and gave me insomnia. YMMV

07-02-2009, 12:07 PM	#10
wannabethin55 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 611 Gallery: wannabethin55 Stats: 165/161/135 WOE: low carb Start Date: restart 3/13/10	I'm weaning off of my anti-depressent and am taking Tyrosine. It seems to be working. I haven't been w/out an anti-depressent in years. WOOHOO! So this supplement and a low carb life style is so far working for me. Good luck!

07-02-2009, 12:40 PM	#11
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	Interesting, do you think any part of you being happy is with you getting thin? No binging and feeling bad etc. The interesting thing is you cant have protein with the carbs, it must be the right amount, at a certain time, and a certain kind of carb. I was just talking with a few doctors (nuro and MD, also a dietitian specializing in mental illness) today about it at lunch, we were comparing studies. Our 40 minute lunch ended up lasting 3 hours... oops.

07-02-2009, 02:00 PM	#12
Mayberryfan Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,785 Gallery: Mayberryfan Stats: 22/14/10 or 8 if I can! WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 6, 2007	For me, eating high carb and getting the mood swings that go with high, then low blood sugar was BAD. This study may be valid for people who are not sensitive to carbs and/or insulin resistant...but it's not for me!

07-02-2009, 02:35 PM	#13
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	Here is a few more details for the phase 1, then it tapers off the snacks: Phase 1: Serotonin Surge Snacking Schedule: * Snack 1: eat an hour before lunch * snack 2: eat mid to late afternoon 3 or 4 hours after lunch * snack 3: eat in mid-evening 2 or 3 hours after dinner Phase 1 snack guidelines: * 30-40 grams of sweet or starchy carbs or a combo of both. If you have less than 15 pounds to lose then make sure it's under 30 grams of carbs. * 1-3 grams of fat and no trans fat * less than 5 grams of protein * no more than 180 calories Serotonin Power Diet Recommended Snacks: * bread stick, breakfast cereals, biscotti (low-fat) * cinnamon raisin bread, whole wheat english muffin * fat free fig newtons, fat free graham crackers (two of my favorites) * granola bars, fat free hot chocolate, marshmallows * whole wheat matzo, oyster crackers, small pita bread * air popped popcorn, pretzels, rice cakes * saltines, soda crackers, tea biscuits * the alternative bagel, toaster waffles

07-02-2009, 02:57 PM	#14
Houston Heather Guest Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 9,854 Gallery: Houston Heather Stats: 228/166/160 Waist: 42/31/31 WOE: Atkins 2002 Ongoing Weight Loss/pre maintenance Start Date: Feb 26, 2008 (second and last time)	Eating like that would make me worse. I've learned I have pretty considerable food intolerances, and the grains and gluten would make my body/mind freak! Oddly enough, while I do take Lexapro I find my lithium carbonate to be the best antidepressant. I've been running depressed this week - upped my lithium per doctor's orders, and I am pretty "normal" now. The one time I ever upped the Lexapro, doctor's orders, it just made me mixed (hyper and depressed at the same time, horrible). Eating FATS always helps when I'm depressed. Anyone else ever read Nutrition and Your Mind? The author theorized that we were basically either a carb responder or a fat responder - eating the wrong macronutrient would make us worse, and eating the proper macronutrient would make us better. I'm DEFINITELY a fat responder. If I'm "off" (up, down, or both), I up my fat intake to about 80% and I always see an improvement within a meal or two, as I also increase my prescriptions. If I eat the same, the meds work, but not as well or as quickly.

07-02-2009, 03:11 PM	#16
KutiePie Senior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 201 Gallery: KutiePie	When reading all the various posts and threads, it is very interesting to see how differently we all react to various foods and WOE. It is fascinating to see that what works great for some people, fails miserably for another. It shows you how in so many ways we are the same, and in others how really "individual" we are.

07-02-2009, 09:41 PM	#19
Mushy2008 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 668 Gallery: Mushy2008	Definitely not true with me, trust me, I've been through a lot, and I'm happier than ever doing low carb. And I'm under 10 carbs per day

07-03-2009, 09:17 AM	#21
mamabear6 Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ky Posts: 1,573 Gallery: mamabear6 Stats: 145/127/120 (previously 175/115) WOE: LC/VLC Start Date: Back on track Feb 2013	I've battled depression since I was 14-15 years old. Only since eating and staying with a low carb WOE have I been able to forget about medication and live a pretty much depression-free life. I'm reactive hypoglycemic as well, so yes when I eat carbs it makes me feel like crap and can make me feel depressed. I try to make sure I'm getting enough good fats, too. I eat salmon 1-2x a week and take an Omega 3/6/9 supplement every day along with a vitamin to make sure I'm getting enough D. I wish I had known eating this way could make me feel so normal a long time ago. Edited to add: If I could afford it, I'd eat salmon every day lol

07-03-2009, 10:31 AM	#26
Remykins Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,182 Gallery: Remykins Stats: 139/132/128 WOE: Low carb Start Date: May 6th 2009	None of the doctors i know say high carb low fat, all of them go for low carb diets (under 60g). You could do this plan and still keep your carbs near 60. I am going to keep researching, i am actually going to do some phone and email interviews with a few people that have done it. The success rate is very high even with those who were previously on atkins, or other low carb plans. I guess we will wait and see..

07-03-2009, 10:46 AM	#27
BillB Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NC Posts: 672 Gallery: BillB Stats: 450+/293/200................ A1C: 12.4--->5.2 WOE: Atkins/VLC/Alternate Day--1g Metformin twice a day Start Date: Last restart, June 2009 at 450+	Check into 5-htp for depression.

07-05-2009, 05:26 AM	#29
Blood Sugar 101 Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New England Posts: 2,895 Gallery: Blood Sugar 101 Stats: 1998-2009 170/142/145---2010 138/142/138 WOE: 80-100g per day. Metformin (no more prandin!) Start Date: First LC diet 1998, goal 2003, continual vigilance	The serotonin/depression theory is oversimplistic and probably not true. The drug companies used the serotonin-depression theory to promote the SSRIs when they thought these drugs raised serotonin. It turns out that long term, they don't. SSRIs have been found instead to work by modifying the neurons in the hippocampus. This is why it takes 3 weeks for them to kick in. There is, however, a relationship between blood sugar and mood, and much of the improvement people attribute to low carbing comes from the fact that if they cut carbs they stop experiencing intense blood sugar swings. Blood sugar swings cause stress hormone releases and these cause anxiety. They can also cause exhaustion--the "eat ice cream and fall into a deep sleep" effect, which is also depressing. Many of us respond to physiological anxiety by getting depressed. High blood sugar can also have an impact on our female hormone balance which can also lead to depression. If you have gluten intolerance, as many people seem to do, cutting gluten out of your diet along with the grains will reduce inflammation and this too can have a positive effect on your mood. Not everyone experiences mood improvement with LC. And over time your mood may change and you may do better on a non-ketogenic moderate carb diet closer to 100 g than 20 a day. Everyone is different. One thing is sure, there is no simple explanation for depression. And some depression is a healthy sign that you need to make some changes in your life. It may be a smoke alarm--turning it off without finding out if there is a real fire can be very dangerous. I had a lot of depression in my youth that vanished when I finally got some job training that let me work at a decent professional job instead of dead end typing. My "depression" was a reasonable response to wasting my brains. Medicating that depression away so I could be happy at my dead end job would have been disastrous.

07-05-2009, 05:44 AM	#30
suzabelle Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boston area, MA Posts: 300 Gallery: suzabelle Stats: 185/135/135 5'7" WOE: My own version of LC Start Date: 1/5/09	I do not see any connection whatsoever for myself in not eating carbs and depression. And for me, carbs do not satisfy my hunger. Within an hour of eating carbs I just want more food!! When I am eating LC my blood sugar and my mood is completely stable. I feel much happier (probably because PHYSICALLY I feel so much better) when I'm consistently eating LC. You said you've done research but didn't mention a source that I saw. It sounds a lot like food combining to me, which many people really believe in, but others think is, as one poster said....hogwash.