If I am in ketosis, no matter my calorie intake, shouldn't I be losing?

[65kilo]

I understand one cannot binge, but I do not calorie count and stick to basically 3 meals and a snack/dessert immediately after dinner. I eat until full, not stuffed and eat pretty clean (sf chocolate and homemade lowcarb desserts) veggies, meat, dairy, one minute muffins....
and I am in ketosis... sometimes slight sometimes moreso....
so shouldn't I be losing?
TIA for any insight

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

I understand one cannot binge, but I do not calorie count and stick to basically 3 meals and a snack/dessert immediately after dinner. I eat until full, not stuffed and eat pretty clean (sf chocolate and homemade lowcarb desserts) veggies, meat, dairy, one minute muffins....
and I am in ketosis... sometimes slight sometimes moreso....
so shouldn't I be losing?
TIA for any insight

ok first off sugar free chocolate and home made lc desserts may very much not be clean eating..
I can't lose while eating most lc desserts, sugar free candy of any sort, or one minute muffins..

I could be peeing dark purple on the keto stix and gain.. being in ketosis dosen't guarantee you lose weight, its just guaranteeing you are using fat for energy instead of carbs..

you could eat 10 sticks of butter, gain a few pounds, and still be in ketosis

[Fun_2B_Mee]

I have this same question...I have been reinducting for the past 4 weeks and have lost a total of 5 lbs! I have been in constant ketosis with no cheats...frustrated

[momof9]

i noticed that when i started to add s/f chocolates and desserts my weight loss slowed down. i stopped with the ketone sticks because i thought the same thing if i am purple all is well. i cut out bars and s/f chocolates and cut back on low carb desserts and i started losing again. i had to make a choice them or weight loss i chose weight loss.

[65kilo]

I've lost quite a bit over the last 5 months, doing basically the same thing I'm doing now. Always having a piece of sf chocolate, or sf cheesecake I made, after dinner (what is life without dessert?!). I continued to lose doing so it is just recently I am not seeing losses. So I guess I'm wondering doing do calories matter. If I am burning fat for energy - ketosis - I should not be storing any... unless calories DO matter.

[Kerry]

life with out dessert is still life..
as you lose weight, it becomes harder to lose weight when you get closer to goal.. you have to start watching whta you eat more, exercising, paying close attention..

[ozdancer]

Yes calories still matter. As you lose weight your calorie requirements go down. If, for example, you are eating the same food at 150lbs as you did at 200lbs you are likely to not lose weight and may even gain weight.

You have two options, reduce your calories to suit your new body weight or increase your exercise levels to burn off the additional calories. Probably the best bet is a combination of the two.

[Lylotte]

calories do matter. just matters more for some than others. I don't know what program you are following if any but I know for Atkins there is a suggested range of target calories for women and men. The hope is that by eating low carb one will not be hungry and will shrink their portions and naturally eat within the range on average over the course of a week. You say you eat until full but not stuffed.. what about jsut eating until you are satisfied rather than actually full? It takes your brain something like 20 minutes to get the message from your belly that it's full.

As for SF, I cannot eat anything SF and lose weight at this point and just when I think I might be able to and try to do it I stall.. coincidence? hrmmm.. who knows but as soon as I stop them I lose again.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by Lylotte

calories do matter. just matters more for some than others. I don't know what program you are following if any but I know for Atkins there is a suggested range of target calories for women and men. The hope is that by eating low carb one will not be hungry and will shrink their portions and naturally eat within the range on average over the course of a week. You say you eat until full but not stuffed.. what about jsut eating until you are satisfied rather than actually full? It takes your brain something like 20 minutes to get the message from your belly that it's full.

As for SF, I cannot eat anything SF and lose weight at this point and just when I think I might be able to and try to do it I stall.. coincidence? hrmmm.. who knows but as soon as I stop them I lose again.

im the same way.. the same for me goes with grains, and any kind of low carb wrap or bread..

I could eat nothing but a 1 minute muffin in a day and be 2lbs heavier the next day..

[thestreets]

I agree with ozdancer- it worked for you before because your calorie requirements were much greater. Atkins never said calories don't count, it's just that carbs count more and you can eat more calories because of the ketogenic advantage.

I also don't consider sf candies and desserts everyday as clean.

As you lose you need to re-evaluate your menu for your changing body.

[DorianH]

You're confusing weight loss with ketosis. Being in ketosis just means you are in a fat-burning metabolism. It doesn't guarantee you're going to metabolize ALL of what you're eating. Some people do need to watch their calories and there are some foods that are not tolerated well.

[peanutte]

i noticed that when i started to add s/f chocolates and desserts my weight loss slowed down. i stopped with the ketone sticks because i thought the same thing if i am purple all is well. i cut out bars and s/f chocolates and cut back on low carb desserts and i started losing again. i had to make a choice them or weight loss i chose weight loss.

Well done, momof9! Good for you! Just because we get to eat wonderful, satisfying food on this WOE doesn't mean we will not have to make occasional sacrifices and exercise self-control.

Dr. Atkins tells us to eat as much as we NEED, not as much as we CAN. Page 282 of DANDR 2002 gives a list of his recommendations for establishing healthy eating habits. The first three recommendations revolve around learning to eat slowly and deliberately and pay attention to the signals that you are satisfied. On page 231, he flat-out says "You may have heard that you can eat as much as you desire of the acceptable foods. That is not the case." He then explains how excess protein is converted to glucose in your body, and cautions us that we may be accustomed to overeating and it may take time to learn what the appropriate amount of food is. So it's not just "not binging" we need to be concerned with--it's not overeating.

I am firmly convinced that if Dr. Atkins were alive today to do another revision of the book, he would make this more clear, since he would be astounded at the number of people who are under the impression that calories don't matter.

[Synesthetic]

Originally Posted by peanutte

On page 231, he flat-out says "You may have heard that you can eat as much as you desire of the acceptable foods. That is not the case." He then explains how excess protein is converted to glucose in your body, and cautions us that we may be accustomed to overeating and it may take time to learn what the appropriate amount of food is. So it's not just "not binging" we need to be concerned with--it's not overeating.

I am firmly convinced that if Dr. Atkins were alive today to do another revision of the book, he would make this more clear, since he would be astounded at the number of people who are under the impression that calories don't matter.

This post should be a sticky or hell, just make it the page banner.

I do see how people can interpret it as "it doesn't matter how much you eat", but I see so many people eating staggering numbers of calories and being frustrated at stalls. And of course it's frustrating when you feel like you're doing everything right and still nothing is happening.

We have to be mindful of amounts, and it's so easy to go overboard with legal things.

It's not JUST that our bodies need different things, but that we all have different ideas of what is enough, and different experiences of the sensation of fullness. I see lots of people say that they don't count calories at all, and they're still losing. So what gives? Well, it may be that those people don't naturally eat as much as some of us.

I innately eat like a bear. It's just who I am. But I know people who have a very good idea of what "full" means. Full, to me, is "that's all gone now." If I didn't count calories I wouldn't lose an ounce on this or any other plan. And I think that more of us are that way than we'd like to admit.

[65kilo]

ozdancer, synesthetic thanks for a straight forward answer
if eating dessert equates to not eating clean...
pretty sad state of affairs.

I basically follow PP @ 10 carbs per meal/snack, enjoy my occasional treats and after dinner sweet. I didn't have a whole lot to lose, but I never wanted to be a size 4 either.
I also don't want my last meal on earth to be a roasted meat and side of broccoli if I happen to get hit by a car an hour later.
Good coffee, piece of good dark chocolate. Yeah, thats the ticket.

Thanks again.

[DizzyUpTheGirl]

Originally Posted by Fun_2B_Me

I have this same question...I have been reinducting for the past 4 weeks and have lost a total of 5 lbs! I have been in constant ketosis with no cheats...frustrated

I am in the exact same boat. In Ketosis, not eating too many calories, no weight loss. What gives???

[metqa]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

ozdancer, synesthetic thanks for a straight forward answer
if eating dessert equates to not eating clean...
pretty sad state of affairs.

I basically follow PP @ 10 carbs per meal/snack, enjoy my occasional treats and after dinner sweet. I didn't have a whole lot to lose, but I never wanted to be a size 4 either.
I also don't want my last meal on earth to be a roasted meat and side of broccoli if I happen to get hit by a car an hour later.
Good coffee, piece of good dark chocolate. Yeah, thats the ticket.

Thanks again.

That's pretty much what I figure too. I mean in none of the Atkins books did he say you could not have dessert. He advocated low carb dessert option even in the earliest 72 book. That doesn't mean a person is not eating clean for low carb if they enjoy an occasional sweet treat. Atkins never claimed his followers weren't allowed sweeteners.


If on the other hand you know you have issues with a particular sweetener then yeah avoid that but that doesn't translate to the whole population must avoid it cause one person can't have it.

That being said, the level of ketosis doesn't necessary translate directly into how much weight you are gonna lose. In fact after the period of induction when the body is still trying to use carbs, the ketone output will be huge, because the body doesn't want to use them and is basically flushing them down the toilet. Kinda like pouring out the bacon fat before you realize you can cook your eggs with it!

A person who's body has gotten efficient at using the ketones after the startup period, may show No ketones in the urine, but still be burning fat and losing.

You said you are eating ~10 carbs per meal, that comes to about 30 carbs per day. Are you out of induction and moving into OWL, or are you just starting out? I don't know what PP stands for.

People can be in ketosis with as much as 50g of carbs per day. They'll be in ketosis, but still have too many carbs to effect a noticable quick loss. You may have to lower your carbs till you notice your weight moving.

Also, back to the treats thing, check the ingredients to make sure some of the ingredients aren't false carbs like glycerine. Glycerine is supposed to behave like a fat, but it only does so if there is ample glycogen stores in the body. After a few days of Induction level carbs there is no glycogen stored and so glycerine tends to behave more like carbs in that case.

Homemade treats like cocoa bark would be safer than storebought treats anyday, as you can control the ingredients. I know even Lindt 85% cocoa bar still have a good bit of carbs in them. I like to make cocoa bark with coconut oil and Hersheys Dark cocoa. Much less carbs than commercial bars.
And snacks like Macadamia nuts, if you aren't allergic, are divine. I even add them to my bark for an extra fatty boost ( can you tell I like high fat?)

Y'know what else is good? chai tea with a Tablespoon of cocoa added. Yum.

Anyway. HTH Good luck and fill us in on details of what you decide.

[65kilo]

Thanks for the reply metga ~ I am doing Protein Power which is 10g at each meal... and this is what I've done, basically, since the beginning of my weightloss. I think I am losing much slower, but given that I am not willing to be overly restrictive (why sabatoge a good thing? AND you have to be able LIVE like this, permanently, yes?) and I've got nothing but time I will march on... but I did believe that whilst the stick is turning colors the body wasn't storing fat.. i.e. if your burning everything you take in (assumably) and dipping into fat stores on top of that each day (pink sticks) there was nothing "leftover" to store...
Guess I was wrong. You can still be in ketosis, burn fat, and store fat simultaneously.
Lower calories are the answer I guess.
Thanks again for the suggestions too

[WildflowerMama]

Count your calories.

I used to think that being in ketosis meant I should be losing weight.

I thought my calories were reasonable.

They weren't.

Cheese, meat, cream, butter all are very calorie dense. I recommend not changing anything but, just weight, measure and track everything you're eating for a couple days. I know when I did this I was SHOCKED at the number of calories I was eating.

For me, simply eating low carb and staying in ketosis isn't enough. I have to count calories.

And, I find when I count calories, I'm actually satisfied on much less food than I originally thought. That whole "eating until satisfied" is so subjective. There is a range of satisfied. And, I found I could easily be satisfied on a few bites less. Meaning that 2oz of half and half in my coffee was "satisfying" but, I could be just as satisfied with 1.5 oz of half and half. 6 oz of steak was satisfying and I wasn't stuffed but, I could be just as satisfied if I ate 4 oz.

Weighing and measuring your food and counting the calories makes you so much more aware of what you're eating and helps you focus on what it really means to be "satisfied". It also stops that mindless trip to the refrigerator for a piece of cheese - if you know you're going to have to measure it and count the calories, it puts a different perspective on food.

[thestreets]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

if eating dessert equates to not eating clean...
pretty sad state of affairs.
.

I think it depends on your perspective and what your relationship to food is. Sure dessert is fine and all, but to think that without eating daily desserts you are somehow deprived is something I don't understand.

[Ilpirata]

I'm with Wildflowermama. Start by religiously tracking every bite you eat in fitday or other free online tracker. Do this for a week. Then look at your numbers. You may be surprised. I personally can't know what to change until I have a clear picture of what I'm DOING.

[peanutte]

Wildflower, I agree with every word of your post. We simply do not hear that message often enough.

I can't relate to the "What is life without [Food X]?" mindset either. If food=life to you, I think you need to examine your relationship to both life and food. There are lots of things I really loved to eat while I got myself fat, but I don't try to re-create those foods because part of this process involves leaving them behind. That's just my perspective. To me, it would be like quitting smoking but continuing to chew nicotine gum every day. Sure, you're not smoking, but...you're also not really addressing the issue of your compulsive habit.

[metqa]

Folks we aren't saying we should encourage addictions, we just don't think All sweeteners or pleasurable food, sweet or not, are evil just because we like them.

If I want to eat dessert everyday because I like it, it's not much different than if I want to eat cauliflower casserole everyday because I like it. If both are allowed in my plan why should I only eat things that I don't enjoy too much?

smoking and nicotine gum both have nicotine they are the same key ingredient. if I make a low carb cheese cake with cream cheese and egg, both of which I am allowed but instead of sugar use sweetener, then it's no longer the same thing.

If I make lasagna out orf ricotta cheese, and spinach and sauce but no noodles, yes it still tastes like lasagna and that's good. it's the sugar and the noodles I don't want and I don't have that. Why should I be a martyr? Most people don't sit down to a plate of plain unseasoned lasagna noodles. It's the other ingredients that makes it delicious so why not enjoy it.

It baffles me that folks want others to do without in order to prove how piously they follow Low Carb.

[65kilo]

Absolutely metga. Very well put.

It would not have to be an evil artificially sweetened low carb cheesecake. It could be a succulent fresh bowl of strawberries and a dallop of whipped cream. I love a sweet end to my evening meal with my coffee. Especially when I gave up artifical sweeteners in my coffee. Perhaps it is more virtuous to throw in a teaspoon of slenda in my coffee and skip the sweet dessert?!
Yes, I do feel deprived and no I do not have an addiction or food issues. I am a foodie however and I want to eat what I enjoy and enjoy what I eat and if this is eating to live or living to eat so be it. Food is a pleasure in most people's - normal people's lives - with or without a weight problem.

Wildflowermama I am sure you could be right.. but it didn't occur to me I needed to until I started examining the situation and with the light shed by a few posters here. You are right I am going to closer watch my total intake. Perhaps now that I have lost 20 lbs I need to cut back a bit to lose anymore. Thanks for the insight of your experiences.

thestreets ~ I am sure you wouldn't given your stats.

[Synesthetic]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

Absolutely metga. Very well put.

It would not have to be an evil artificially sweetened low carb cheesecake. It could be a succulent fresh bowl of strawberries and a dallop of whipped cream. I love a sweet end to my evening meal with my coffee. Especially when I gave up artifical sweeteners in my coffee. Perhaps it is more virtuous to throw in a teaspoon of slenda in my coffee and skip the sweet dessert?!
Yes, I do feel deprived and no I do not have an addiction or food issues. I am a foodie however and I want to eat what I enjoy and enjoy what I eat and if this is eating to live or living to eat so be it. Food is a pleasure in most people's - normal people's lives - with or without a weight problem.

Food SHOULD be a pleasure. But if you have a problem taking those pleasures daily and still losing, why not delay the pleasures for a while.

Nobody is saying NEVER have these things. That wouldn't be living. But don't have them every day until you have lost the weight you want to lose. That's just common sense.

And if you're a foodie then you would refuse to eat crap like artificially-sweetened sugar free chocolate. That's not fine food. It's garbage.

[thestreets]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

Absolutely metga. Very well put.

It would not have to be an evil artificially sweetened low carb cheesecake. It could be a succulent fresh bowl of strawberries and a dallop of whipped cream. I love a sweet end to my evening meal with my coffee. Especially when I gave up artifical sweeteners in my coffee. Perhaps it is more virtuous to throw in a teaspoon of slenda in my coffee and skip the sweet dessert?!
Yes, I do feel deprived and no I do not have an addiction or food issues. I am a foodie however and I want to eat what I enjoy and enjoy what I eat and if this is eating to live or living to eat so be it. Food is a pleasure in most people's - normal people's lives - with or without a weight problem.

Wildflowermama I am sure you could be right.. but it didn't occur to me I needed to until I started examining the situation and with the light shed by a few posters here. You are right I am going to closer watch my total intake. Perhaps now that I have lost 20 lbs I need to cut back a bit to lose anymore. Thanks for the insight of your experiences.

thestreets ~ I am sure you wouldn't given your stats.

Well I consider myself a normal person and I do enjoy food but I don't see the need to have dessert everyday, especially with AS. I don't see how I eat as more pious, just healthier, devoid of foods with no nutritional value.

I am not sure what you mean about my stats?

[peanutte]

I don't understand why it's interpreted as pious to prefer not to eat certain things, and to eat until satisfied but not "full". Nor do I see why it's assumed that people are being martyrs.

I'm sorry that you feel deprived, kilo. It's one of the fundamental principles of Atkins that you should not feel deprived.

[Minnas]

Originally Posted by Synesthetic

Food SHOULD be a pleasure. But if you have a problem taking those pleasures daily and still losing, why not delay the pleasures for a while.

Nobody is saying NEVER have these things. That wouldn't be living. But don't have them every day until you have lost the weight you want to lose. That's just common sense.

And if you're a foodie then you would refuse to eat crap like artificially-sweetened sugar free chocolate. That's not fine food. It's garbage.

I agree completely. I'm a total foodie and I do think that food is one of the most important pleasures of life. This whole "food is fuel" stuff is lost on me completely and I am happy for that fact indeed.

Bottom line is this though...what you're doing isn't working for you. So you either change what you are doing or be happy at the weight you are. Maybe it's just a stall. I stalled for 8 months and I was not willing to chance my food plan. I finally started losing again but it was a long 8 months. Eventually I did have to give up the high calorie stuff in addition to going very low carb. For me that is the only way. But that's just me...You need to step back and decide which you want more, dessert every single night or losing weight. Honestly I think either is a fine choice. But just remember that for most of us the weight loss phase looks very different from the maintenence phase. You can choose to cut out or cut down on the daily pleasures, drop the weight and then figure out what will work for you long term. Otherwise, your position seems to be that "this is how I am going to eat and that's that" which again is fine but you may have to accept that that means you keep your weight where it is today.

Remember, in the end your body tells you how life's gonna be not the other way around. Your body is telling you it's not giving up the fat the way it's being fed right now. it's interesting to ponder why but in the end why doesn't really matter. On this journey sometimes you just have to accept things and move forward. So listen to your body and then make your choice. There's really no other option than that.

[Houston Heather]

Originally Posted by OurLuvsFromAbove

ok first off sugar free chocolate and home made lc desserts may very much not be clean eating..
I can't lose while eating most lc desserts, sugar free candy of any sort, or one minute muffins.

THAT.

IMO, "dessert" should not be in a weight loss meal plan every day. It should be a special treat.

If I eat "treats" every day, I gain.

I'm perfectly happy eating the way I do. No food addictions, no obsessions, no migraines!

So what if my last meal is meat and broccoli? I will die knowing I took care of myself.

It sounds like you've already decided to keep eating the sweets. Good luck with the weight loss.

Nothing is more important than my health, and I don't feel deprived. Eating sweets triggers binging and misery... so I choose to avoid the misery!

If I really want a treat, I have some fresh fruit, whipped cream, or both. OH YEAH. Maybe a few times a month.

[65kilo]

My goodness, I did not say I felt deprived ~ or perhaps it was bit mistated but I WOULD feel deprived if I had to cut out ALL desserts, as treats ~ but I don't as previously stated. Further, I am not arguing if I need to cut back or count calories as I previously stated I appreciated the info and am going to explore it.
Lastly Valor chocolate sugar free from Spain is better than Godiva and the assumption all sugar free is crap is a little judgmental, aye?
Thanks for those who did contribute to my little dilemma... but it was just that... I will check the calories, tweak and see what happens but if I have to go zero carb to lose anymore, I am done. But not done with my low carb lifestyle.. just done worrying about actively losing
"That" HoustonHeather wow I need to edit again... judgmental souls around here... thanks to those who gave me an honest-judgment left out. I will find my information elsewhere.
I am doing things my way and was looking for insight, got some but got a whole lot of holy righteousness instead. Wow.
Ciao.

[Minnas]

Originally Posted by 65kilo

My goodness, I did not say I felt deprived ~ or perhaps it was bit mistated but I WOULD feel deprived if I had to cut out ALL desserts, as treats ~ but I don't as previously stated. Further, I am not arguing if I need to cut back or count calories as I previously stated I appreciated the info and am going to explore it.
Lastly Valor chocolate sugar free from Spain is better than Godiva and the assumption all sugar free is crap is a little judgmental, aye?
Thanks for those who did contribute to my little dilemma... but it was just that... I will check the calories, tweak and see what happens but if I have to go zero carb to lose anymore, I am done. But not done with my low carb lifestyle.. just done worrying about actively losing
"That" HoustonHeather was exactly the response I was looking for... the judgmental stuff aside!

I know it's hard not to take some comments as criticism and perhaps some of it is but I think it comes from a good place and I like to think of it mostly as constructive criticism. The way I read it you were saying that you were happy with the way you eat, you lost but stopped losing but you were not willing to make changes. I am glad to hear you are willing to look at changing things up. Remember that nothing is forever. I understand the struggle with feeling deprived. It's funny that you mention not being willing to go zero carb but I have to tell you that for me, VLC is a gift. It is the only thing that works for me to lose weight (and I've been doing this for over 12 years now so I've done every version of LC known) It is the only eating plan on which I never feel deprived. It's not sustainable for me as a lifestyle (by choice) but for weight loss this is what works for me. I don't crave, I don't want, i am not hungry. I am free. Anyway, again my point is that nothing is forever. I think it's a mistake to think that the way you lose your weight is the way you will have to eat to maintain your weightloss. That doesn't have to be so.

Whatever you do I wish you all the best. I think everyone else who contributed to this thread would say the same.