BFFM and HIIT

[Purple Sage]

Anyone else following this plan? I have done Atkins very consistently for 4 years now and have done very well, lost 100 pounds, but then started gaining so decided to add in exercise this summer and did C25K and then joined the gym. Have been doing very well there, running 4-5 days a week, weight lifting but really running out of steam on workouts so did research and decided to try the BFFM plan. I am impressed with this. I have a history of eating very low calories as a result of disordered eating and this has been good to get me into a somewhat normal range of calories and I feel so great.

My big question though, is anyone else doing this? I want to find others who can give me input/support on this WOE and life...it feels like an island here!

And today I am hurting bigtime....had a doh moment....

I went to the gym today for my hour, worked out like normal, 3 miles running then weights. Then when kids got home and it is 70 so they wanted to go outside. Took them to the park and decided to go ahead and do HIIT on the track at the park as I felt good, not worn out from other workout etc...did 1 2/3 miles, 20 minutes of HIIT....now my calves are cramping so bad I cannot even walk! Wonder if I over did it? DUH!!!!!

[julieboolie]

I have considered checking this plan out. I too have been working on losing the last 20 lbs and also upped my exercise recently. I have loved Atkins for so long and worry that I won't be able to get my head around a new way of eating.

What do you think of the differences? You say you feel good and are liking the new way? I'll be watching to see what others have experienced. I need to buckle down on my eating. I just can't seem to stick with clean eating. I like the maintenance lifestyle and cutting back down to induction has been tough.

Glad to see I'm not the only one working on it. Thanks for posting this thread.

[WATCH-ME-SHRINK]

Christa, I've done BFFM, learned amazing amounts of info from the plan, much of which I've implemented into my current philosophies. You're right, it's a wonderful program.

Be careful how you structure your HIIT workouts. HIIT should be done following a weight training workout, not before (which you did), and never on a "leg" day. My guess is, with all the running and weights you did at the gym (you didn't mention UB or LB), your legs had already been taxed sufficiently and it was too much for them. The intensity of a HIIT workout mandates that it should be timed strategically, when your muscles will get the most benefit.

Are you timing your complex carbs around your workouts, and are you taking in a prot/carb mini meal after workouts for recovery? That will help with energy.

Althought the BFFM thread has long since died, I think there are many of us who still follow most of the theories behind that science. PM me any time you want and I'll try to be of help.

Ilene (muscle matters board mostly) is also very familiar and knowledgeable re BFFM, and she could help you too.

Many people have said that Venuto places too much emphasis on cardio and not enough on weight lifting. That has been the single common "objection" I've heard from the people who've been with the program.

I'm glad to hear the balance of his nutritional advice is working for you and giving you the energy you need to lean down and recomp your body! Good for you. Keep with it!

[WATCH-ME-SHRINK]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

I have loved Atkins for so long and worry that I won't be able to get my head around a new way of eating.

I just can't seem to stick with clean eating. I like the maintenance lifestyle and cutting back down to induction has been tough.

Julie, if it makes you feel any better, I was EXACTLY where you are when I began testing the waters with BFFM. I was scared to death of carbs. Watching the scale with a magnifying glass every day, certain that those carbs would "make me gain." It was a long road, but I had many kind people holding my hand along the way (Julia, Donna, Jammer, Ilene, Jackie, Marcie...just to name a few).

Read, go slowly, be patient, allow your body time to adapt to the changes, and enjoy the balance. It's a wonderful thing.

If I had any single piece of advice, it would be to not get hung up on the suggested mac ratios from Ventuto (40-55 % carb ratios starting out)...not everyone can handle the same number of carbs, and it's more about baby steps of introducing good carbs into your meals. Baby steps. Tweaking. Finding balance and energy.

Best of luck to you.

[JuliaL]

I've been doing BFFM and HIIT for years. I love the BFFM way of eating - for me it's moderate carbs. I think eating 5-6 meals a day, each containing a complete protein, is the healthiest and best way to eat.

BFFM helped me lose the last 10 lbs., and HIIT is the best way to do cardio. I agree that the program probably requires too much cardio, but I have modified it to fit my needs. I do HIIT 3 days a week and weight lifting 3 days a week.

[sreichfeld]

Hello!

Could you guys tell me what is exactly this BFFM? Thanks a lot

Sylv

[WATCH-ME-SHRINK]

BURN THE FAT FEED THE MUSCLE.

It's an e-book written by Tom Venuto. You can google it. (Clicking the link above takes you there.)

As Julia said, it emphasizes a lean protein with each meal, five to six meals a day, balanced macs.

Very resourceful.

There is a thread at the top of the Muscle Matters board that explains and gives tips too. You should find that helpful.

[Purple Sage]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am now 10 days into this and I really am feeling good! I am exercising more than I EVER have and besides being a little sore, I feel great. I am not fatigued like I was on very low carbs. I was always tired before and when I tried to exercise I would just hit a wall.

Here is a funny thing though, I never, even on induction atkins, could get more than pink on the keto sticks. I have some left over and yesterday, just because I was curious, I tested and I was pink on the stick. How could that be possible? I am eating around 80g of carbs a day! it cannot possibly be ketosis I wouldn't think.

Anyway, I am still working my way up on calories. My nutritionist wants me to add 100 calories a week until I am at 1600-1700 calories a day and thinks I should still be losing then. So far I am around 1400 after starting, prior to BFFM, at 900 a day....hope this fixes my metabolism for sure.

Julia, you say you only do cardio 3 days a week and weights 3 days a week. I am loving cardio now, something new for me, and have been running, or hiking every day and then doing weights 3-4x a week. Is that too much? Is there anything wrong with lots of cardio?

Twyla: I am putting my workout right before my 3rd meal each day and then eating sweet potato, squash or brown rice after working out. I just overdid it on monday because it was so nice and I wanted to be outside, should have just walked instead of doing HIIT after a workout that day.

[RavenG]

I eat around 80 carbs (total) a day as well and I'm in ketosis as well.

[WATCH-ME-SHRINK]

The trigger/magic of ketosis with higher carbs is the exercise. You work out, esp with intensity, you burn off the glycogen, you build lean mucle mass, you suffer no harm from the carbs.

Sweet.

[CurlsNCuffs]

What would a typical daily food menu look like for BFFM?

[Purple Sage]

I don't know about giving out the menu as it is one of those deals where you have to buy the ebook,

But there are 5-6 meals:
Meal 1 : Complex Carb, simple carb (fruit) and lean protein
Meal 2: Same
Meal 3: lean protein, fibrous veggie and complex carb
Meal 5: Same
Meal 6: Same
And one meal add in some fat, like I use a small bit of salad dressing or a few almonds.

My percentages right now are about 33/33/33 but I am working to raise the carbs and lower the fat, just didn't want to dive in too fast, should be 45-50% carbs ultimately unless you do better on limited carbs then my macros are about right.

[CurlsNCuffs]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

I have considered checking this plan out. I too have been working on losing the last 20 lbs and also upped my exercise recently. I have loved Atkins for so long and worry that I won't be able to get my head around a new way of eating.

What do you think of the differences? You say you feel good and are liking the new way? I'll be watching to see what others have experienced. I need to buckle down on my eating. I just can't seem to stick with clean eating. I like the maintenance lifestyle and cutting back down to induction has been tough.

Glad to see I'm not the only one working on it. Thanks for posting this thread.

JulieBoulie - I am considering the same thing - in the same position you are - ready to knock out the last 20 lbs

[Purple Sage]

For me the differences are a challenge, more carbs are a challenge and finding that I need to up my carbs but still avoid wheat (It doesn't like me) makes it quite difficult, trying to find products that are higher in carbs but not wheat based is a real challenge. Mostly, my carbs are coming from sweet potatoes, squash, fruit, oats and veggies. But it is working. So far though, no pounds lost. I don't know. My fat is looking all weird on my thighs, all bumpy and jiggly, not a good look! Hope this doesn't continue!

Then I ended up with a sinus infection and didn't go to the gym at all yesterday, and am trying to work my way up to go today. I will at least do light hand weights here at home if nothing else, I just feel pretty yucky and low energy.

The other thing I have a hard time wrapping my mind around is the "cheat" aspect of BFFM and that it won't work if you don't vary your macronutrients one to two times a week, that really freaks me out!

[KajunDC]

I cannot say enough good things about BFFM. Tom Venuto put together a great compilation of ideas covering both diet and exercise. It teaches so much about how your body works and how to get rid of cravings - you are basically eating every 2-3 hours. It also teaches you which foods to truly fear and which are fine and healthy for you, which differs from Atkins.

I too had a hard time mentally allowing myself to change my diet from the Atkins-type diet I'd had success with losing my weight. However I find myself much happier and more energetic with this eating style and I work out 7 days a week. (3 days resistance, 3 days cardio, 1 day stretching) It truly is a way of eating and exercising for a lifetime.

[JuliaL]

Originally Posted by Purple Sage

Julia, you say you only do cardio 3 days a week and weights 3 days a week. I am loving cardio now, something new for me, and have been running, or hiking every day and then doing weights 3-4x a week. Is that too much? Is there anything wrong with lots of cardio?

Christa - There is some evidence that too much cardio will cause you to burn more of your muscle than if you balance it more with weight lifting. Lots of people who are into body building suggest that you should only do as much cardio as you need to lose fat - two days of HIIT is what most recommend.

There is a lot of controversy around this. Runners would disagree that too much cardio is bad for you. Personally I get better results with 3 days of cardio and 3 days of lifting than I do with 5-6 days of cardio only. During the summer months my DH and I like to go cycling, and since I only have about an hour a day to workout, I don't usually do as much lifting during that time. Last summer I managed to maintain, but the year before I actually gained weight, even though we were riding 6 days a week. (And we ride fast - up hills, etc., so it's a good workout. We don't just take leisurely tours)

So my personal experience proves to me that weight lifting is necessary for me to maintain my weight. Sorry if that wasn't too helpful. Ileen over on the Muscle Matters board could probably give you a lot more info about why too much cardio is not recommended. Good luck!

[CurlsNCuffs]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

I cannot say enough good things about BFFM. Tom Venuto put together a great compilation of ideas covering both diet and exercise. It teaches so much about how your body works and how to get rid of cravings - you are basically eating every 2-3 hours. It also teaches you which foods to truly fear and which are fine and healthy for you, which differs from Atkins.

I too had a hard time mentally allowing myself to change my diet from the Atkins-type diet I'd had success with losing my weight. However I find myself much happier and more energetic with this eating style and I work out 7 days a week. (3 days resistance, 3 days cardio, 1 day stretching) It truly is a way of eating and exercising for a lifetime.

I needed to hear this today - I did purchase and download the book. So, much to read - as I was shopping this morning for my food plan - I was thinking - this is scary - very scary - I'm going to EAT oatmeal - and grapefruit .......and.......egg whites

HELP!!!!!!!! I want to lose the last 20 lbs! I want to maximize my weight training and do my body good!

Any tips - tricks - help hints is welcomed by all.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around what a typical eating day would look like.

Do you use butter? I know I asked Julia this question. I just want to be sure I do it right. And, I admit I have not read the entire book yet - I did jump to some of the food plan so I could shop - I do not need the motivation to do this plan - I already work out - ..........

[JuliaL]

Don't fear healthy carbs! Even on Atkins when you get to pre-maintenance you're allowed to eat healthy carbs. Carbs are not evil. You just have make sure you aren't eating the wrong ones, too many, or eating them by themselves (without protein). The best thing I can tell you about BFFM is that protein is the cornerstone. Eat good quality, complete protein with every meal. Eat every 3 hours or so, and keep exercising regularly.

[CurlsNCuffs]

Originally Posted by JuliaL

Don't fear healthy carbs! Even on Atkins when you get to pre-maintenance you're allowed to eat healthy carbs. Carbs are not evil. You just have make sure you aren't eating the wrong ones, too many, or eating them by themselves (without protein). The best thing I can tell you about BFFM is that protein is the cornerstone. Eat good quality, complete protein with every meal. Eat every 3 hours or so, and keep exercising regularly.

Thanks Julia - I want my body to look like yours

Do you drink coffee? Cream?

[JuliaL]

Originally Posted by CurlsNCuffs

Thanks Julia - I want my body to look like yours

Do you drink coffee? Cream?

Awww...you're sweet, Curls, thanks

I do drink coffee. I use 1/2 & 1/2. I tried using skim milk for a while, but it just isn't the same. It didn't taste bad, but the gray color kind of put me off I don't worry about the calories in a tablespoon or so of 1/2 & 1/2. I only have about 2 cups of coffee a day.

[KajunDC]

Originally Posted by CurlsNCuffs

I needed to hear this today - I did purchase and download the book. So, much to read - as I was shopping this morning for my food plan - I was thinking - this is scary - very scary - I'm going to EAT oatmeal - and grapefruit .......and.......egg whites

HELP!!!!!!!! I want to lose the last 20 lbs! I want to maximize my weight training and do my body good!

Any tips - tricks - help hints is welcomed by all.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around what a typical eating day would look like.

Do you use butter? I know I asked Julia this question. I just want to be sure I do it right. And, I admit I have not read the entire book yet - I did jump to some of the food plan so I could shop - I do not need the motivation to do this plan - I already work out - ..........

I don't personally use butter but that is because I choose to use only olive oil for my cooking. I never cook things at a high temp so olive oils serves me well.

I also choose to eat whole eggs as opposed to just the whites. This, along with the olive oil, are my main sources of fat for the day. I keep my macro ratios right now to 50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fat. This is the phase 1 diet for the P90X nutrition program and this has served me very well. (If you are interested in a truly killer workout routine, P90X is absolutely amazing. I've been doing this since Christmas eve and the results are truly incredible. It is really not for someone just starting a workout plan - you should have been exercising somewhat before it - but it is the only DVD set I've ever done that delivers an intense, extreme workout. We have a challenge thread on the exercise board if you are interested in seeing what others have to say about it.) A good % of my carbs come pre & post workout. I get up at 5am each day to do my exercise. The rest of the day I am much lower carb but do hit the 30% overall for the day.

There is a website called ************. (Add the dot com to find it.) It is like ******, except you can put in your goal calories and macro percentages and it will tell you as you enter in info what you have remaining for the day. My goal with P90X is 2400 calories and ************ is really keeping me squarely at my targets. The database of foods is more extensive, I have found, than ****** and, just like ******, you can add in your own personal meals.

I know you asked this of Julia, but I do not drink coffee. I never have. Coffee is a stimulant that your body grows to rely on over time for an energy boost. Plus, I think coffee smells and tastes horrible.

[CurlsNCuffs]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

I don't personally use butter but that is because I choose to use only olive oil for my cooking. I never cook things at a high temp so olive oils serves me well.

I also choose to eat whole eggs as opposed to just the whites. This, along with the olive oil, are my main sources of fat for the day. I keep my macro ratios right now to 50% protein, 30% carbs and 20% fat. This is the phase 1 diet for the P90X nutrition program and this has served me very well. (If you are interested in a truly killer workout routine, P90X is absolutely amazing. I've been doing this since Christmas eve and the results are truly incredible. It is really not for someone just starting a workout plan - you should have been exercising somewhat before it - but it is the only DVD set I've ever done that delivers an intense, extreme workout. We have a challenge thread on the exercise board if you are interested in seeing what others have to say about it.) A good % of my carbs come pre & post workout. I get up at 5am each day to do my exercise. The rest of the day I am much lower carb but do hit the 30% overall for the day.

There is a website called ************. (Add the dot com to find it.) It is like ******, except you can put in your goal calories and macro percentages and it will tell you as you enter in info what you have remaining for the day. My goal with P90X is 2400 calories and ************ is really keeping me squarely at my targets. The database of foods is more extensive, I have found, than ****** and, just like ******, you can add in your own personal meals.

I know you asked this of Julia, but I do not drink coffee. I never have. Coffee is a stimulant that your body grows to rely on over time for an energy boost. Plus, I think coffee smells and tastes horrible.

THANKS! Thanks for sharing - I will check out that site. I did purchase the ebook for BFFM. Started my new eating plan today - the last 20 lbs are killing me! Jeesh - good thing it didn't take this long to lose the mass weight I had to lose - too darn slow

Wow - 6 meals a day - don't know if I can get all six in today - I just had my fourth and it is 5:00PM! I need to stop eating as I will be in bed around 9:00 - I'm a little afraid of the scale going up........no - I'm terrrified!

[inatic]

HIIT should be done following a weight training workout, not before (which you did), and never on a "leg" day.

I just wanted to pop in and say that My coach actually has us do HIIT ON leg day. Reason being, it gives you legs the most time to recover for leg day again/HIIT. It either comes MUCH earlier in the day (train in the evening) or can come Post workout.

Always do your wt training first if that is your priority then focus on your cardio after...... What we sometimes do is HIIT or cardio in the am then wt train later/pm.

I did BFFM prior to working W/Erik Ledin, who has been my (online) coach for nearly 3 yrs.

[Purple Sage]

Yeah, I have been doing HIIT on leg days at the advice of my trainer.

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by inatic

I just wanted to pop in and say that My coach actually has us do HIIT ON leg day. Reason being, it gives you legs the most time to recover for leg day again/HIIT. It either comes MUCH earlier in the day (train in the evening) or can come Post workout.

Always do your wt training first if that is your priority then focus on your cardio after...... What we sometimes do is HIIT or cardio in the am then wt train later/pm.

I did BFFM prior to working W/Erik Ledin, who has been my (online) coach for nearly 3 yrs.

What I had heard was that legs are used to higher endurance movements from all our natural walking. That is why it makes sense to align cardio (which is typically leg based) with leg day and it also is some of the reasoning behind suggestions for high reps for things like calves.

[Purple Sage]

Had a great HIIT workout today! Wow!!!! I am beat now but I did 10 rotations at 8mph on the treadmill, 1 minute rotations. My legs feel so strong now, a couple hours later and after my protein recovery. Also did weights with my legs and I am increasing what I can lift SOOOOO much!

the leg press I am up to 140 pounds! calf raise 130 pounds, internal and external thigh machines, 100 pounds, back wards leg press 70 pounds! That is at least double from 2 weeks ago! I am so excited!

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by inatic

I just wanted to pop in and say that My coach actually has us do HIIT ON leg day. Reason being, it gives you legs the most time to recover for leg day again/HIIT. It either comes MUCH earlier in the day (train in the evening) or can come Post workout.

Always do your wt training first if that is your priority then focus on your cardio after...... What we sometimes do is HIIT or cardio in the am then wt train later/pm.

I did BFFM prior to working W/Erik Ledin, who has been my (online) coach for nearly 3 yrs.

I have found it best to do HIIT after training on leg day, too. It's much easier than trying to do it the next day.

[DiamondDeb]

Originally Posted by Purple Sage

Had a great HIIT workout today! Wow!!!! I am beat now but I did 10 rotations at 8mph on the treadmill, 1 minute rotations. My legs feel so strong now, a couple hours later and after my protein recovery. Also did weights with my legs and I am increasing what I can lift SOOOOO much!

the leg press I am up to 140 pounds! calf raise 130 pounds, internal and external thigh machines, 100 pounds, back wards leg press 70 pounds! That is at least double from 2 weeks ago! I am so excited!

WTG!

You're going to be amazed at how those weights increase. Do be careful not to sacrifice form to get a bit more weight though.

[Purple Sage]

Originally Posted by DiamondDeb

WTG!

You're going to be amazed at how those weights increase. Do be careful not to sacrifice form to get a bit more weight though.

No worries...I have a yeller! My friend and I lift together and we watch form and do a Jillian anytime it is not as it should be!

[inatic]

Christa, skip that inner outer thigh machine..