Alcohol and its effects?

[smudgepot]

Hi all,

I work as a business development executive, and occasionally have to take clients out to lunch or dinner. Unfortunately, these are not the type of events where I can decline a drink or two.

I know that spirits (such as vodka, whiskey etc) are the best choice to make if a person is low carbing, so I was drinking Vodka and Sprite Zero. Not a fab choice - I am trying to get off aspartame anyway - but probably the best I could do in a social "client" environment.

However, it did seem as if the alcohol threw my system a little out of wack. While I was in no way drunk (or even tipsy) I got the most enormous headache. This morning it also seems like my body is not functioning in its usual "low carb" tip-top shape.

Anyone else experienced this? Anyone have suggestions??

[suzanneyea]

I do not drink alcohol and really find it rediculous that you think you "have" to drink at these functions. Many people do not drink alcohol, very common.

[smudgepot]

suzanneyea - as much as you may find it ridiculous, you have obviously never been in a client facing role. There is a certain amount of pressure at this type of event to have a drink or two. Especially if the client is buying. Trust me, I have tried the "I dont drink" routine, and it tends to reflect negatively.

I don't particularly want to get into a social debate about alcohol and client facing events. I simply wanted feedback.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Bluqq]

I am in sales and get what you are saying 110%
I opt for vodka and sprite zero or a glass of white wine
I understand that it will 'delay' my fat burning for a few
I had the headache when I had a glass of wine but not with the vodka
I do find that alcohol effects me when I l/c much differently than when I am not

[24Fan]

Smudge, I drink once in a while. My choice is vodka or gin instead of wine. I think your drink is good but try soda water with a twist or club soda whatever it's called, with a slice of lime or lemon.

what i do is keep adding ice from a water glass to keep it going or order it in a tall glass.

Also, for the headache/icky feeling, drink a lot of water when you get home and have something to eat, like something with fat to absorb some of the booze, might help with headache issue.

[flatferenghi]

i don't think your clients would object if u abstained from alcohol. Ergo, there is no reason why they should compel you to drink alcohol even though you are not. Perhaps they are drinking alcoholic beveridges for the same reason you are; i.e. it is expected. Alcohol certainly has its rightful place , but should never be consumed merely to close a deal, or any other compulsory reason. Please take care of your needs first. Love & Profits: FLATFERENGHI

[momov2boys]

I drink wine.

When I used to eat strict LC, any alcohol would get me quickly and harder.

I'm maintaining and as long as I have my wine with food, I'm not affected negatively.

Have you tried a dry white wine with meals?

[YeyYey]

Smudgepot, and others, I am saying this with all the compassion and understanding in the world.....please be very, very careful of the "I have to drink because the clients expect it" way of thinking. I know from personal experience that this is a long, dangerous, heart breaking road. My father, formerly a top executive at a large manufacturer, began drinking with his clients in the 1980's - particularly his Japanese clients for whom not drinking with them is an insult. He did not touch alcohol at home (at first), just drank to be sociable with his clients. Unfortunately, little did he know, that he had the alcoholism gene. Fast forward almost 30 years. My father is in the end stages of acute alcoholism. Today I pick him up from the hospital, after he had his toe amputated this week due to complications of drinking, poor circulation, etc. I could fill 10 pages of posts with the pain his alcoholism has inflicted on his family and most importantly himself.

I realize a person can become an alcoholic by drinking under any circumstances and for any number of reasons. This struck a chord with me though because the intent can seem so innocent and justifiable...of course you have to drink to protect your job, right? Well, if alcoholism runs in your family or if you realize drinking has become a problem, I highly recommend either a different line of work or developing a comfortable line to decline drinking with clients. Trust me, it's no where near worth the pain.

Just my two cents worth for anyone out there struggling with this issue.

Jodi

[smudgepot]

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Luckily, I dont have an alcohol problem. The only problem, which I identified, was that I felt pretty awful afterwards (which seemed to be a LC reaction) since not enough alcohol was consumed for a hangover.

I really did not want this to be an alcoholism or social debate. Just simply querying people if they had had a similar experience or could suggest anything.

Thanks!

[badgerbabe287]

hey smudgepot- alcohol definitely hits me much harder and faster when I am eating very low carb compared to a few years ago when i could go out for 4 hours and do shots and stuff like that and be fine. I usually drink bacardi/diet or grey goose/diet. It hits me so much faster that I can only tolerate 3-4 drinks all night, over at least 5 hours. The next day is horrible too. I sometimes feel like my heart is pounding really fast and my hangover is so much worse. I go out 1-2x per month and tonite is one of them (Im going up to UW-Madison to visit old friends so i plan to eat something fatty b4 i go out and b4 i go to bed ill eat something, take a few ibuprofen, and drink a lot of water so hopefully i wake up hangover free!

[MarcellaSF]

Yes, I have had the same experience. I feel wiped out and foggy-brained the next day.

[suzanneyea]

I used to work in sales and have had many client dinners. I did not drink and was still able to close the deal and maintain a great relationship with the client.

[VanjaJames]

I am (basically) insulin resistant and the ONLY thing I drink is vodka & water (yes, straight water, no sweetener, no aspartame) with perhaps a lemon.

If I know I am going to be drinking, I eat a meal with a fair amount of fat in it, as fat slows the absorption of alcohol.

I might I tell the bartender to make my drink "really light" because I have a cold or something.

I also order an additional glass of water so I can replenish the alcohol on my own.
Get some more ice and people might not know the difference between the vodka, and water.


When I get home, I take charcoal tablets (can be purchased from whole foods) which help absorb the effects of the alcohol. They give charcoal to people for food poisoning, and I figure it helps prevent some of the next-day aftermath.

Vodka has the least acetylehide (sp?) which is the chemical that is responsible for hangovers. I'm russian so vodka works, however I always encourage people to "drink within their heritage." (I.e. spirits from your country of origin.)

[Tiffany2288]

Try vodka and club soda. There's no sugar is EITHER item and the club soda will help keep you hydrated. I'd stay away from diet coke and the aspartame....your body might think its having sugar and you might have an insulin surge and then want to binge eat.

I'm hypoglycemic and these drinks don't hit me as hard as wine or diet coke do.

Good luck. (I am a broker and I get where you're coming from. Not drinking isn't really an option for me either)

At client dinner I always drinks tons of water along with my alcohol drinks and I nurse them.....they don't seem to notice and that helps me from being hungover and foggy brained.
Hope this helps.

[Tiffany2288]

The other main reason you feel so bad after drinking is dehydration. LC-ing dehydrates your body, so does alcohol so try to drink lots of water while at the client metting and again at home before you go to bed, and first thing in the morning to rehydrate yourself.

[Bluqq]

charcoal tablets? hhmmmmm

[JuliaL]

Smudgepot: I understand that you don't want this thread to turn into a pro or anti-alcohol thread, but I also agree that you don't have to drink at client-facing functions if you don't want to. There should be no repercussions from that, but having said that, alcohol will affect your weight loss. Here is a great article explaining it's effects:

Why alcohol calories are more important than you think...
Successful weight loss is all about oxidizing (or burning), more calories than you eat. When they go on a diet, many people choose low-calorie alcoholic drinks, mainly because they contain fewer alcohol calories than their regular counterparts.

However, drinking too much has a far more damaging effect than you can predict simply by looking at the number of alcohol calories in a drink. Not only does it reduce the number of fat calories you burn, alcohol can increase your appetite and lower your testosterone levels for up to 24 hours after you finish drinking.

Alcohol calories
According to conventional wisdom, the infamous "beer belly" is caused by excess alcohol calories being stored as fat. Yet, less than five percent of the alcohol calories you drink are turned into fat. Rather, the main effect of alcohol is to reduce the amount of fat your body burns for energy.

Some evidence for this comes from research carried in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition [4]. Eight men were given two drinks of vodka and sugar-free lemonade separated by 30 minutes. Each drink contained just under 90 calories. Fat metabolism was measured before and after consumption of the drink. For several hours after drinking the vodka, whole body lipid oxidation (a measure of how much fat your body is burning) dropped by a massive 73%.


Rather than getting stored as fat, the main fate of alcohol is conversion into a substance called acetate. In fact, blood levels of acetate after drinking the vodka were 2.5 times higher than normal. And it appears this sharp rise in acetate puts the brakes on fat loss.

A car engine typically uses only one source of fuel. Your body, on the other hand, draws from a number of different energy sources, such as carbohydrate, fat, and protein. To a certain extent, the source of fuel your body uses is dictated by its availability.

In other words, your body tends to use whatever you feed it. Consequently, when acetate levels rise, your body simply burns more acetate, and less fat. In essence, acetate pushes fat to the back of the queue.

So, to summarize and review, here's what happens to fat metabolism after the odd drink or two.

. A small portion of the alcohol is converted into fat.

. Your liver then converts most of the alcohol into acetate.

. The acetate is then released into your bloodstream, and replaces fat as a source of fuel.

The way your body responds to alcohol is very similar to the way it deals with excess carbohydrate. Although carbohydrate can be converted directly into fat, one of the main effects of overfeeding with carbohydrate is that it simply replaces fat as a source of energy. That's why any type of diet, whether it's high-fat, high-protein, or high-carbohydrate, can lead to a gain in weight.

Appetite
The combination of alcohol and a high-calorie meal is especially fattening, mainly because alcohol acts as a potent appetizer. A Canadian study shows that an aperitif (an alcoholic drink taken before a meal to increase the appetite) increased calorie intake to a greater extent than a carbohydrate-based drink [5].

Researchers from Denmark's Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University report similar results [8]. When a group of men was given a meal and allowed to eat as much as they wanted, they ate more when the meal was served with beer or wine rather than a soft drink.

Not only does too much alcohol put the brakes on fat loss, it's also one of the most effective ways to slash your testosterone levels. Just a single bout of heavy drinking raises levels of the muscle-wasting hormone cortisol and increases the breakdown of testosterone for up to 24 hours [6]. The damaging effects of alcohol on testosterone are made even worse when you exercise before drinking [1].

The effect of alcohol on testosterone could be one reason that people who drink a lot carry less muscle. In fact, a 1993 study shows that alcoholic men have bigger waists and smaller muscles than teetotalers [2].

This doesn't mean you need to avoid alcohol completely.

A recent study, published in the November 2004 issue of the International Journal of Obesity, compared the effect of two different diets over a three-month period [7]. Both diets contained 1500 calories daily, one with 150 calories from white wine and one with 150 calories from grape juice.

Weight loss in the grape juice group and white wine group was 8.3 pounds and 10.4 pounds, respectively.

So, what's the bottom line?
Although an alcohol-rich meal does increase your metabolic rate, it also suppresses the number of fat calories your body burns for energy — far more so than meals rich in protein, carbohydrate, or fat [3]. While the odd drink now and again isn't going to hurt, the bottom line is that alcohol and a leaner, stronger body just doesn't mix.

[wishnot]

I drink regularly (hey, I'm a regular gal in my 20's, what can I say? lol!) I have switched from beer to drinking gin and seltzer with a wedge of lime or sometimes red wine. I don't get any negative affects from it at all, I feel fine and I still lose weight. Perhaps though it's because I'm a regular drinker, perhaps if I rarely drank at all I would feel negative affects because it would be more of a shock to my system?

If I've had too much to drink one night I always make sure to drink 2 big glasses of water before I go to sleep. Most of the crappy "hangover" feelings are due to dehydration because alcohol dehydrates you and people rarely drink water while they're drinking alcohol. So make sure you get LOTS of water before you go to sleep, trust me, it's worth getting up in the middle of the night to go pee!

[Tiffany2288]

Originally Posted by wishnot

I drink regularly (hey, I'm a regular gal in my 20's, what can I say? lol!) I have switched from beer to drinking gin and seltzer with a wedge of lime or sometimes red wine. I don't get any negative affects from it at all, I feel fine and I still lose weight. Perhaps though it's because I'm a regular drinker, perhaps if I rarely drank at all I would feel negative affects because it would be more of a shock to my system?

If I've had too much to drink one night I always make sure to drink 2 big glasses of water before I go to sleep. Most of the crappy "hangover" feelings are due to dehydration because alcohol dehydrates you and people rarely drink water while they're drinking alcohol. So make sure you get LOTS of water before you go to sleep, trust me, it's worth getting up in the middle of the night to go pee!

Yep I agree....I drink a 18-25 oz of water before I go to bed and another 16 oz when I get up to pee in the middle of the night. (i keep a sport bottle filled near my bed)

I drink another 16-25 oz when I first wake up too...it REALLY helps.

[Ilpirata]

I have not read the whole thread yet (I'll go back)

YEY YEY... I'm so sorry for your situation!


As far as the OP:
Sometimes you can get away with just ordereing a club soda or a diet coke... I have found that people don't really notice WHAT you're drinking as long as you have a drink in your hand. Another option to limit the intake would be to do the big cheers and toast or whatever and take the first drink but then just set it down and wander away from it... Pick up a Non Alcoholic drinnk instead, or nurse the darn thing all night long. Really most people are not that focused on what you're drinking or how long it takes you to drink it.

Just some thoughts on how to limit the amount you consume.

[crakd]

i find that i get SUCH A HEADACHE in the morning if i drink anything at all. what a disappointment.

i do occasionally drink wine or light beer, but i really can't handle much.

[angel247]

Originally Posted by wishnot

I drink regularly (hey, I'm a regular gal in my 20's, what can I say? lol!) I have switched from beer to drinking gin and seltzer with a wedge of lime or sometimes red wine. I don't get any negative affects from it at all, I feel fine and I still lose weight. Perhaps though it's because I'm a regular drinker, perhaps if I rarely drank at all I would feel negative affects because it would be more of a shock to my system?

If I've had too much to drink one night I always make sure to drink 2 big glasses of water before I go to sleep. Most of the crappy "hangover" feelings are due to dehydration because alcohol dehydrates you and people rarely drink water while they're drinking alcohol. So make sure you get LOTS of water before you go to sleep, trust me, it's worth getting up in the middle of the night to go pee!

Can I just ask how regular you drink? I drink as well but I see you have lost quite amount of weight....just curious.

[grammie2rylee]

Originally Posted by smudgepot

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Luckily, I dont have an alcohol problem. The only problem, which I identified, was that I felt pretty awful afterwards (which seemed to be a LC reaction) since not enough alcohol was consumed for a hangover.

I really did not want this to be an alcoholism or social debate. Just simply querying people if they had had a similar experience or could suggest anything.

Thanks!

I have drank 2 good size glasses of red wine twice since I've been on the plan. I drank water along with it. Surprisingly, I did not feel any affects of the alcohol at all...except my face turned red! I use to drink wine all the time and I got a little buzz...!! I did not get a buzz at all...I felt strange!! I did not have a hangover but I think it's because I drank water.
Marcia

[lilly29]

Originally Posted by smudgepot

suzanneyea - as much as you may find it ridiculous, you have obviously never been in a client facing role. There is a certain amount of pressure at this type of event to have a drink or two. Especially if the client is buying. Trust me, I have tried the "I dont drink" routine, and it tends to reflect negatively.

Weird, this is not my experience at all. I take out or am taken out by clients at least twice a week, order a Pelligrino or two, and have not once been met by negativity, nor has it affected my business.

Not telling you not to drink, just sharing my experience.

[polarbear]

I have a couple of cocktails every night and have continued to through induction. In 20 days I have lost 23 pounds. I have had no headaches or any other side effects. I'm a 56 yo man.

[VanjaJames]

Originally Posted by polarbear

I have a couple of cocktails every night and have continued to through induction. In 20 days I have lost 23 pounds. I have had no headaches or any other side effects. I'm a 56 yo man.

Men don't count! They don't have ovaries where alcohol can mess with their hormones and reproductive system. Siggggghhhh.

P.S. I didn't drink for like 3 years in bars and I just told people I was diabetic and it worked out splendidly. Perhaps the japanese would let it slide.

[Briar]

I personally am a red wino. Love the stuff. Have had no gains or any problems with it so far. Drink a couple every night.

[fawn]

Funny, I've been faced with just your problem recently. I have clients who love to have their cocktails. We are closed but are invited to social functions which DH and I attend because of future networking. I used to drink in these situations but lately, I just can't. It has to be just the right situation for me and the right alcohol and amount. So, I tell my clients it makes me violently ill.

recently, I've said no because I just don't like to be ill but I plan ahead like tomorrow evening, I am having dinner in San Francisco for my brother's reception. I plan on having two glasses of red wine and a heavy meal and I shall also sip slowly......very slowly. my sober bil is driving so Dad, DH, Ma and myself are gonna get loose! I'll probably have a major hangover on Sunday!

[VanjaJames]

Try some charcoal tablets fawn - take them at night after the drinks, before bedtime. Helps cut the hangover, I promise.

[Changeling]

Hi Smudge! Hanlie from Cape Town here.

Firstly, let me just acknowledge that I hear what you're saying. I do public relations for a firm of attorneys in Cape Town and, while we are certainly not forced to drink, it is in my opinion and experience the correct, polite and best thing to do in the situation. Yes, you could refuse to drink, but it would firstly make your drinking clients feel uncomfortable and secondly you would not be able to get into the same mood of festivity as them and to relate to them and would actually in effect be isolating yourself from them socially - which would make the whole exercise pointless as the point of the exercise is specifically to bond with clients over a couple of drinks and form relationships that will result in later business.

Just being honest here. Perhaps this is not how things should be in an ideal world, but I live in the real world.

People who are not involved in marketing, PR or business development sometimes don't understand this.

When I first started out in PR I used to do the "I don't drink at all" thing. It just did not work. It was a disaster. I'm not saying get drunk! So don't attack me. I'm saying that I do a better job and get better results when I have a drink or 2 with my clients and then switch to a non-alcoholic drink.

I'm not an alcoholic and I'm not underestimating the devastating effects of alcoholism, but that is not what we're talking about here or what Smudge's question was about.

Smudge, I used to drink 1 or 2 vodka and sprite-zeros and then I'd switch to sparkling water with ice and lemon to rehydrate. I lost nearly 50 pounds in the space of about 8 months doing this about 3 times a week. No problem. If I was not drinking I might have lost the weight in say 5 months, but this way worked just fine for me.

Have you tried Vawter - vodka with sparkling water and lime?