Where does excess fat go?

[kristina]

Originally Posted by oobladee

This is where many die-hard Atkins and I split ways. There is a tipping point where when you eat more calories than your body needs, whether fat, protein or carb your body stores it as fat. Calories still count.

Period.

Atkins DID say in one of the books that you can overeat protein and stall your weight loss...so he would agree with your statement

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by kristinaInWa2003

Right, but what if you eat MORE FAT than you can use? Where does THAT go?

It's difficult to believe that it's alllll used if you eat too much fat

It gets stored as fat.

[whatjelly]

or we just poop it out?

Why would we store it? If we had already plenty in storage?

I too, am more confused than ever...?

[Meg056]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

It gets stored as fat.

Bingo. You win the prize. Excess fat in the diet gets stored as fat.

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by whatjelly

or we just poop it out?

Why would we store it? If we had already plenty in storage?

I too, am more confused than ever...?

We don't excrete fat in feces. You would get fat if you ate too much-doesn't matter how fat you are if you are overeating you will get fatter.

[ab1ht]

I think I'm finally getting it. I knew all the pieces, but it's coming together now.

Summary: The calorie counters are correct... kinda. If we take in more than we burn, we get fatter. BUT, thanks to the metabolic advantage, we have more wiggle room (i.e. we can eat more) if we restrict our carbs and get our calories from fat and protein.

I knew that.

Now here's another question:

If insulin is what enables fat storage, and we keep insulin levels low by eating low carb, why/how does the excess fat get stored as fat?

You do realize that you will have to shoot me at some point, as I will continue to ask more questions as I understand more...

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by ab1ht

I think I'm finally getting it. I knew all the pieces, but it's coming together now.

Summary: The calorie counters are correct... kinda. If we take in more than we burn, we get fatter. BUT, thanks to the metabolic advantage, we have more wiggle room (i.e. we can eat more) if we restrict our carbs and get our calories from fat and protein.

I knew that.

Now here's another question:

If insulin is what enables fat storage, and we keep insulin levels low by eating low carb, why/how does the excess fat get stored as fat?

You do realize that you will have to shoot me at some point, as I will continue to ask more questions as I understand more...

You still can be taking in more calories from food eaten than you are fat burning causing weight gain. Too much is still basically too much.

[oobladee]

Paul, I could kiss you! Our bodies will convert most food to glucose, no matter what it is. We store the excess calories, no matter from which food group because it is converted to the one currency our cells use: glucose. This is very simply stated - it is quite complex. Atkins is based on a theory, after all.

It is truly a misnomer that there is no glucose stored on our livers only because we eat high protein/high fat. Your body finds a way.

[g8rchic]

Though we are keeping insulin low there is still a sufficient amount in our bodies to do it's job. Have you read Good Calories, Bad Calories? Based on your questions I think you would like it.

[ab1ht]

Originally Posted by oobladee

Paul, I could kiss you!

OK. Be over later...

Originally Posted by oobladee

Our bodies will convert most food to glucose, no matter what it is....it is converted to the one currency our cells use: glucose.

Whoa!

Are you now telling me fat is converted to glucose? Is this chemically possible? I thought the ketones produced from fat metabolism was used for energy.

[ab1ht]

Originally Posted by g8rchic

Though we are keeping insulin low there is still a sufficient amount in our bodies to do it's job. Have you read Good Calories, Bad Calories? Based on your questions I think you would like it.

Thanks, I've been meaning to check it out. Just haven't gotten to it yet.

[MrsJackSprat]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

It gets stored as fat.

Ok, I'm gonna put my foot in it!
Fat does NOT get stored as fat!!! That is the incorrect assumption of low-fat diets.

Dietary fat is used for satiety, to keep us from ingesting the excess carbs, etc, so the brain won't yell for a quick fix-aka-glucose.

Originally Posted by ab1ht

So, I ask the question again:

If restrict carbs and I eat more fat than my body can utilize for energy, where does the extra fat go?

And please don't tell me it all gets used up for energy needs. This is BULL!

Eating minimal carbs forces the body into ketosis, a state in which the body turns to its stored fat for fuel. Now, here's your answer from Atkins '72, p 14-15:

Also, ketones bring you another big bonus. The ketones in your urine and on yor breath represent incompletely burned calories. This means that when you excrete or breathe out ketones you are sneaking calories our of the body. It's one of the reasons you can eat more calories than you burn up and-as long as no carbohydrates are present-still lose weight.

The ketones are the secret of this seemingly biochemical sleight-of-hand.

Hundreds of calories are sneaked out of your body every day in the form of ketones and a host of other incompletely broken down molecues of fat. You are disposing of these calories not by work or violent exercise-but just by breathing and allowing your kidneys to function(emphasis added). All this is achieved merely by cutting out you carbohydrates.

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by MrsJackSprat

Ok, I'm gonna put my foot in it!
Fat does NOT get stored as fat!!! That is the incorrect assumption of low-fat diets.

Dietary fat is used for satiety, to keep us from ingesting the excess carbs, etc, so the brain won't yell for a quick fix-aka-glucose.

Eating minimal carbs forces the body into ketosis, a state in which the body turns to its stored fat for fuel. Now, here's your answer from Atkins '72, p 14-15:

We are not talking about a normal intake of fat such as in a low carb WOE. If you consume thousands of calories of fat consistently lc or not will eventually cause weight gain if your body is not burning it off. Dr. A said don't count calories but calories do count if you are overeating.

[LC Angie]

Wow, thank you. what a great post. Its amazing what the human body can do, isn' it??

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by MrsJackSprat

Ok, I'm gonna put my foot in it!
Fat does NOT get stored as fat!!! That is the incorrect assumption of low-fat diets.

Dietary fat is used for satiety, to keep us from ingesting the excess carbs, etc, so the brain won't yell for a quick fix-aka-glucose.


Eating minimal carbs forces the body into ketosis, a state in which the body turns to its stored fat for fuel. Now, here's your answer from Atkins '72, p 14-15:

I also believe DANDR states the metabolic advantage is about 400 calories for most of us-overeating will cause weight gain in some of us lc or not.

[whatjelly]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

We are not talking about a normal intake of fat such as in a low carb WOE. If you consume thousands of calories of fat consistently lc or not will eventually cause weight gain if your body is not burning it off. Dr. A said don't count calories but calories do count if you are overeating.

But WHO consumes thousands of calories?

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by whatjelly

But WHO consumes thousands of calories?

I can easily consume 3000 calories-overeating will always be something I fight.

[SUZYQ]

Paul, there's NO reason to shoot you, EVER!! My Momma taught me that " if you don't ask questions, how are you to learn!" Besides, you are asking questions I have wondered about for a long time and the nice and informed people here are helping to get them answered in, fortunately, laymens terms!!

So, thanks to everybody who is helping us learn!!

[MrsJackSprat]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

We are not talking about a normal intake of fat such as in a low carb WOE. If you consume thousands of calories of fat consistently lc or not will eventually cause weight gain if your body is not burning it off. Dr. A said don't count calories but calories do count if you are overeating.

Atkins'72:
Chapter 8

To Stay Fat, Keep on Counting Calories
The job of this book is to change that (counting calories) reflex into, "Look, I'm counting carbohydrates-because it's carbohydrates far more than calories that count."

It isn't how many calories, but the kind of calories that count. It was not until thirty years after the Newburgh and Johnson studies were made that the two English researchers, Kekwick and Pawan, demonstrated that while people lost weight on a 1,000 calorie a day of protein or fat, no weight was lost on a 1,000 calorie a day diet of carbohydrates.

My own observations have been much more dramatic. It has been my clinical experience over the years with patient after patient that weight will be lost even when the calories taken in far exceed the calories expended, provided the patient stays under his Critical Carbohydrate Level.

[kristina]

The original 72 Atkins book, page 15:


"......the weight loss of thousands of my patients proves that the basic reason you can lose on all this rich food is this fantastic fact: as long as you don't take in carbohydrates, you can eat any amount of this "fattening" food and it won't put a single ounce of fat on you"

Of course, this doesn't mean you won't lose FASTER if you cut the calories down a bit. You probably will lose faster if you don't eat 3,000 calories/day.

[LightlyStarched]

I will second the suggestion to read GCBC. It goes into this in detail.

This is my understanding and may not be 100% accurate:

Dietary fat can be stored in the body (fat). My understanding is that the body will adjust for excess dietary fat (that cannot be stored due to the absence of insulin) by increasing energy expenditure - ie - you will feel the need to exercise more, and certain body fuctions (cellular repair) can be done in a loop, over and over to burn energy.

If you overeat dietary fat (on a low carb diet) you will not lose weight, but you will not gain either.

[fawn]

fat that is not utilized is probably stored as fat. This was one of my biggest irritations in the average nutrition 101 class I took at the communtiy college. The gal teaching the class tried to tell me that fat is always stored. Every bit of it......well, as an Atkins follower, I knew this wasn't true but I didn't have the experience or knowledge I have currently so I didn't argue it..... But, let's talk about my big question.....we have 2 types of fat. Yellow fat which is stored in your fat cells and there is brown fat which is where the hormone leptin is made.....so could this be where that additional fat goes?
Yes, where is 2big when we need her.

This is where many die-hard Atkins and I split ways.

higher fat followers know that you can over consume. However, in the absence of refined or most simple carbs, fat is self regulating on the appetite.

Sounds like these folks are re-inventing Atkins. Interesting read, but still not answering the question (unless I missed it)

you probably didn't notice the authors but they're Mary Enig and Sally Fallon, of Weston Price foundation. Mary Enig has been a lipid researchist for more than 30 years. She is also the author of know your Fats and Sally is the author of Nourishing Traditions. They've been doing this as long as Atkins yet no commercial flair for their work.

No re-inventing at all.......

[oobladee]

[edit] Metabolism
Glycerol is a precursor for synthesis of triacylglycerols and of phospholipids in the liver and adipose tissue. When the body uses stored fat as a source of energy, glycerol and fatty acids are released into the bloodstream.

The glycerol component can be converted to glucose by the liver and provides energy for cellular metabolism

Before glycerol can enter the pathway of glycolysis or gluconeogenesis (depending on physiological conditions), it must be converted to their intermediate glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate in the following steps:

Glycerol Glycerol kinase Glycerol-3-phosphate Glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase Dihydroxyacetone phosphate Triosephosphate isomerase Glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate
ATP ADP NAD+ NADH


NAD+ NADH


The enzyme glycerol kinase is present only in the liver. In adipose tissue, glycerol 3-phosphate is obtained from dihydroxyacetone phosphate (DHAP) with the enzyme glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase.

FAT = FATTY ACIDS + GLYCEROL. Trust me, though I cannot explain every lil step...excess food no matter what it is will eventually be turned to glucose/glycogen and stored as fat eventually.

There is no diet..none on earth...that would allow us to eat unlimited calories. There's a lid on this. I prefer to not try to analyze the Atkins theory; too many holes that I know are not for real. One thing we all agree on...we are satisfied with less food eating low carb.

[kristina]

Originally Posted by LightlyStarched

I will second the suggestion to read GCBC. It goes into this in detail.This is my understanding and may not be 100% accurate: Dietary fat can be stored in the body (fat).My understanding is that the body will adjust for excess dietary fat (that cannot be stored due to the absence of insulin) by increasing energy expenditure - ie - you will feel the need to exercise more, and certain body fuctions (cellular repair) can be done in a loop, over and over to burn energy. If you overeat dietary fat (on a low carb diet) you will not lose weight, but you will not gain either.

repeating the post above as well:

Atkins book page 15

"..Hundreds of calories are sneaked (I think that should say snuck)out of your body every day in the form of ketones and a host of other imcompletely broken down molecules of fat. You are disposing of these calories NOT by work or violent exercise-but just by breathing and allowing your kidnesy to function. All this is achieved by merely cutting out your carbohydrates."

The original 72 Atkins book, page 15:

"......the weight loss of thousands of my patients proves that the basic reason you can lose on all this rich food is this fantastic fact: as long as you don't take in carbohydrates, you can eat any amount of this "fattening" food and it won't put a single ounce of fat on you"
============

Of course, this doesn't mean you won't lose FASTER if you cut the calories down a bit. You probably will lose faster if you don't eat 3,000 calories/day.
__________________

[xamier]

Eat too much of anything and it ends up on your, (fill in the body part.) We eat fat to keep us feeling full and too help our bodies along with ketosis, but eat too much and you will gain weight.

Dr Atkins said to eat until comfortable, not stuffed. He also said calories count, carbs count more. Because of the metabolic advantage of ketosis one can eat a little more then the average dieter. It costs one's body more energy to digest fat. But this WOE is not a license to stuff oneself on fat, or any other low carb food.

[zelia]

Originally Posted by KajunDC

For example, taking acid blockers like prilosec and previced. They neutralize all stomach acid. You need a strong acidic medium to digest poperly but especially to digest minerals like calcium. So when you take those you may take in tons of calcium in diet and/or supplements but your body does not digest and absorb them so they do you no real good.

Prilosec and Prevacid are proton-pump inhibitors. They don't neutralize stomach acid -- they reduce the amount of acid produced. Wikipedia says: "The lack of the acid in the stomach will aid in the healing of duodenal ulcers, and reduces the pain from indigestion and heartburn, which can be exacerbated by stomach acid. However, lack of stomach acid may also contribute to hypochlorhydria, a lack of sufficient hydrochloric acid, or HCl. Hydrochloric acid is required for absorption of nutrients, particularly calcium."

[kristina]

Originally Posted by xamier

Eat too much of anything and it ends up on your, (fill in the body part.) We eat fat to keep us feeling full and too help our bodies along with ketosis, but eat too much and you will gain weight.

Dr Atkins said to eat until comfortable, not stuffed. He also said calories count, carbs count more. Because of the metabolic advantage of ketosis one can eat a little more then the average dieter. It costs one's body more energy to digest fat. But this WOE is not a license to stuff oneself on fat, or any other low carb food.

Atkins also said:Atkins book page 15

"..Hundreds of calories are sneaked (I think that should say snuck)out of your body every day in the form of ketones and a host of other imcompletely broken down molecules of fat. You are disposing of these calories NOT by work or violent exercise-but just by breathing and allowing your kidnesy to function. All this is achieved by merely cutting out your carbohydrates."

[COLOR="Red"]The original 72 Atkins book, page 15:

"......the weight loss of thousands of my patients proves that the basic reason you can lose on all this rich food is this fantastic fact: as long as you don't take in carbohydrates, you can eat any amount of this "fattening" food and it won't put a single ounce of fat on you"[/COLOR]

[zelia]

Originally Posted by ab1ht

OK, so now I got that question answered, here's another one...

Q: So if I eat plenty of fat and there are lots of ketones in my blood ready to be used for energy, why would my body use the STORED fat? This would imply that I SHOULD be counting fat calories, which I know is not correct.

Our bodies don't distinguish between dietary and "stored" fat: All the fat in your body is moving around all the time. If you have a teensy delay in the release of fatty acids from fat tissue, then you will accumulate fat tissue -- but it's all still circulating. Read Gary Taubes's Good Calories, Bad Calories.. Charles Washington has posted a chapter-by-by chapter synopsis: An Ode To "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes.

[feather319]

Excess Fat get stored when the body has too many carbohydrates in the blood stream. Here is how it works:

Glucose from dietary sources are digested, absorbed, moved to the liver. There, it is released into the blood stream and requires insulin to move it into the muscle cells of the body. Fructose is a little different than glucose itself because it is predominantly metabolized in the liver and unlike glucose it does not require insulin to be used by the body.

When glucose is in the blood stream, insulin is released from the pancreas to get the sugar out of the blood. Think of insulin as a key to a door. The insulin (key) unlocks the cells (door lock) to allow glucose to move from the blood to the cells. However, when excess glucose is in the blood stream, there aren't enough keys to open the doors and the body is forced in to a sort of flooding mode causing fatty acids to form droplets which spill over and leak into fat cells.

Insulin is used to absorb glucose, fatty acids and amino acids. The activity of fat storage depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the fat enzymes are very active. On a low carb diet, insulin is low so the enzymes are less active.

Read how stuff works: HowStuffWorks "Fat Storage and Insulin"
"It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."

Does that all make sense?

I also recommend reading the anabolic diet:
The Anabolic Diet
Page 13 has some useful information.

[Start]

my question is.. how come most people stall out when they exercise on atkins, you'd think if your body burned fat as fuel the more fuel it needed the faster you'd lose weight... Hmmmmm