Meat - The Ethical Dilemma

[sugarless4life]

It is totally IMPOSSIBLE for me to not eat meat. OMNIVORE TO THE CORE.

Betty

[speedymagee]

Originally Posted by sugarless4life

It is totally IMPOSSIBLE for me to not eat meat. OMNIVORE TO THE CORE.

Betty

I hear you. I love it too. I definitely don't recommend watching the slaughter though

Hope your foot surgery is quick and easy, I always enjoy reading your threads.

[jezzie]

Originally Posted by flourchild

I pay extra for "organic" and "free range" if the product appears to be superior. But I'm aware those terms have very little meaning or definition in the dietary sense. Everything from earth is "organic", so what does that really mean? Arsenic is organic. Whereas if I buy something Kosher, I know it has to meet specific, consistent requirements that makes the designation relevant.

I read about one place that advertised "cage free" - which meant they clipped
the chicken's beaks so they couldn't peck each other in their 'outdoor pen'.

So I buy a well known brand of 'organic' cage free eggs - and hope for the best.


.

[suzanneyea]

You are in Calgary, it should be pretty easy to find a local guy and as someone said above, split the cost and size of a half cow with some other people. Then you can get an organic cow, raised and killed in a more humane manner. A lot of people do that in Quebec.

[sugarless4life]

Originally Posted by speedymagee

I hear you. I love it too. I definitely don't recommend watching the slaughter though

Hope your foot surgery is quick and easy, I always enjoy reading your threads.

When I was very young, my mother worked at a packing plant. We toured the stockyards when I was about 7 or 8 (I was from Omaha, Nebraska and at the time, Omaha was the midwest's MAJOR stockyard location) .. anyway I remember vividly watching as they slaughtered the cattle....hitting them in the head first, and then .... well, I can say the experience has not affected my love affair with beef in any way shape or form !!! I LOVE ME SOME BEEF!!!!

Thank you for your kind words about the surgery. I get so just thinking about it!

Betty

[speedymagee]

Originally Posted by suzanneyea

You are in Calgary, it should be pretty easy to find a local guy and as someone said above, split the cost and size of a half cow with some other people. Then you can get an organic cow, raised and killed in a more humane manner. A lot of people do that in Quebec.

There is a lot of grass fed beef and bison available here, now that I"ve been looking. I hope it is as easy to find people who want to split a cow (or pig).

[MsKimber]

My son raises show animals so we either slaughter a pig for our freezer or go in halfers on a beef every year. Go to your local county fair and see what is available for purchase, not only are you getting a well fed, well raised animal you are helping out a youngster learn how to be responsible.

[Questions]

Originally Posted by MsKimber

My son raises show animals so we either slaughter a pig for our freezer or go in halfers on a beef every year. Go to your local county fair and see what is available for purchase, not only are you getting a well fed, well raised animal you are helping out a youngster learn how to be responsible.

That sounds like something I want to do. Thanks for suggesting it! I will be sure to pass the suggestion on.

[50something]

Originally Posted by spaceace

I would recommend a book by Ray Audette - called Neanderthin. Even though it is a book - it is a quick read - and ever since I have felt that I understood my place in the food chain, and allowed myself to dispel any negative feelings about eating meat. I also understand my biology and how natural selection has made us who we are. (Please note that "natural selection" does not mandate "evolution". It just means that the creatures that have the best features survive and pass down their genes, and others did not. Over time, this means the species improves or adapts. That happens no matter how we got here.)

On the other hand, I am totally against mistreating animals. But I have to wonder as well - if we were to free range all animals, how many people would we starve? (It takes alot of space to free-range many animals. How many people can afford the more expensive food?) What's the greater good - ethical treatment of animals or people? Another dilemma.

Back to "neanderthing", and another poster brought up a similar thing. We are not carnivores, and we are not herbivores - we are omnivores - meaning we can eat plants and animals. Just because we are able to, however, doesn't mean that both sources of food are equally good for us. We share a certain biological adaption (like dogs, also omnivores) that helped us to get by by eating plants when meat was not able to be found. We have a stomach that is best designed to digest meat, unlike the multiple stomachs of many herbivores (think cow) that empty very slowly. Ours empties in a few short hours.

The book also put me in awe of what our physical bodies can do. We are simply one of the best endurance animals on the planet. Sure a cheetah can knock you down, but only if it can do it within 30 seconds. Wear out that cheetah, and they're no match for us. They overheat and pass out, as do all furry creatures. I always thought that other animals were physically superior and that our mind was our big advantage. Losing our hair and growing sweat glands (allowing us to travel great distances without overheating) is almost as big an advantage as our big brains and opposable thumbs.

I also learned about our kinship with dogs. It is proposed that our two species were co-dependent and worked together before we had guns, etc..., or settled down into agriculture. It seems we have a natural capacity to align ourselves with dogs because our "packs" and their "packs" were integrated as our species flourished (before the agricultural revolution.)

I am very sorry - I rambled on much. Just something to share.

Wow, what an interesting post. Thanks. I too am trying to come to reasoning of the need for us to consume meat and its ethical, spritual conections. I sure have never been able to go very long with out it.

[Doug K]

Originally Posted by 9lives

This may help:

The Blood Moon

Thank you for that link. It reminds me of one of my favorite books of all time, The Tribe of Tiger - Cats and Their Culture . The Amazon site includes a quote from the book:

"The story of cats is a story of meat, and begins with the end of the dinosaurs..."

It's a great book about different feline "cultures" around the world, how they differ, and what they share. The author, an anthropologist, lived with her father in Africa as he studied the Bushmen of the Kalahari. She recounts how humans and lions co-existed at the top of the food chain, and how they affected each others' group behavior.

I tried to go vegan in the early '90's, and I didn't have a hard time giving up meat, but I was used to relying on dairy and eggs for protein, and I couldn't stand tofu and soy analogs.

[fluffybear2]

I have tried both vegetarianism and veganism for both ethical and health reasons, but now I guess you would call me a plant-based eater who eats mostly fruits and vegetables but some meat (about once a week). As far as the ethics, I came to terms with that when I thought about the fact that many veggie/vegans own cats. Think about that for a minute. I have actually heard vegans say that they are vegans but their cat it not. So that means that while they can't see killing animals for food they think its perfectly OK to kill animals to feed their pet cat because cats are what are called "obligate carnivores." In other words cats cannot subisist on a wholely vegetarian diet. Dogs would have a hard time with that too. Although they are carnivores, they are not "obligate carnivores" so they might get sick, but not die from a vegetarian diet. So that and the fact that animals kill each other for food, put the ethical question right out of my mind. Then there is the free range question. Well what is so merciful about letting cattle graze on grass and then shipping them to the huge stockyards simply to be slaughtered sooner or later anyway? There is nothing merciful about killing an animal. It's not like they let them live a full life out on the range. Then there is the free-range chicken issue. That simply means they are not caged. They could still be living in a bad situation like a cramped chicken coop with hundreds of other chickens. So again, if they are killed, and eventually they are unless they die of something else first, being free-range isn't really helping save them from slaughter. I am a plant-based eater by choice, mainly because I think its healthy. I eat very little beef and only eat chicken or fish once a week. My conscience is clear because I know there are certain things from both plants and animals that are neccessary to my health and I can't get them from being solely a carnivore OR a vegetarian/vegan. I guess you could say humans are "obligate omnivores."

[speedymagee]

Originally Posted by fluffybear2

I have tried both vegetarianism and veganism for both ethical and health reasons, but now I guess you would call me a plant-based eater who eats mostly fruits and vegetables but some meat (about once a week). As far as the ethics, I came to terms with that when I thought about the fact that many veggie/vegans own cats. Think about that for a minute. I have actually heard vegans say that they are vegans but their cat it not. So that means that while they can't see killing animals for food they think its perfectly OK to kill animals to feed their pet cat because cats are what are called "obligate carnivores." In other words cats cannot subisist on a wholely vegetarian diet. Dogs would have a hard time with that too. Although they are carnivores, they are not "obligate carnivores" so they might get sick, but not die from a vegetarian diet. So that and the fact that animals kill each other for food, put the ethical question right out of my mind. Then there is the free range question. Well what is so merciful about letting cattle graze on grass and then shipping them to the huge stockyards simply to be slaughtered sooner or later anyway? There is nothing merciful about killing an animal. It's not like they let them live a full life out on the range. Then there is the free-range chicken issue. That simply means they are not caged. They could still be living in a bad situation like a cramped chicken coop with hundreds of other chickens. So again, if they are killed, and eventually they are unless they die of something else first, being free-range isn't really helping save them from slaughter. I am a plant-based eater by choice, mainly because I think its healthy. I eat very little beef and only eat chicken or fish once a week. My conscience is clear because I know there are certain things from both plants and animals that are neccessary to my health and I can't get them from being solely a carnivore OR a vegetarian/vegan. I guess you could say humans are "obligate omnivores."

Really interesting point!!

[speedymagee]

Originally Posted by MsKimber

My son raises show animals so we either slaughter a pig for our freezer or go in halfers on a beef every year. Go to your local county fair and see what is available for purchase, not only are you getting a well fed, well raised animal you are helping out a youngster learn how to be responsible.

Thanks for this suggestion! I am doing research now. I'll post if I end up buying half a cow or a pig.