Don't be afraid to question authority!!

[Lisa Rae]

Ok..I'm probably going to end up hating myself for this post..but let's face it..it won't be the first time! ( that's why I invested in a flame retardant suit early in my low-carb career) I also want to say I sat thinking about thsi topic for the last few days...before posting my thoughts.

I have been gone from this board for a very long time. I did keep in touch with a few amazing people, but due to some health issues..I had been way off the low-carb wagon for almost 2 years. Even though I wasn't here..I did continue to get updates on the happenings here. Unfortunately that also included the demise and fall from power of kimmer.

Now let me also state..I have been on this board a long time. I did have an on-line relationship with Kimmer that was defiantly Hot and Cold (LOL) I often confronted her about her "ideas and theories" way before her Kimkins took off. I also took a lot of heat from her followers whenever I questioned her unusual ideas. She aslo could be very suportive to me as a single mom struggling on my own.

Ok...so when I came back here a few months ago..I was curious to see the Kimkins Posting area. Having known her before and after her fall, I was interested to see what was being said. I found many people there still very angry and upset ( which I totally get..really) and when I asked why there were 16+ posts ( with dozens of pages for each post...so were talking hundreds of pages here) still venting about Kimmers..I was basically told that they never wanted anyone else to go through what they did. Cool..I again get that. I figured with as much passion as people had to expos her..that they would not let it happen again...right?

Now ( yeah, I know..I tend to be very long winded...sorry!!) pan to this past week. I like to read the boards and give an opinion or info if I can. I have seen at least 2 different posters giving advice to me that sounded totally extreme..and possibly dangerous.( definatly not what I have read in any low-carb book or article) I really expected after the whole Kimkins disaster..for someone..anyone to question the advice that was given. Guess what..NOPE! Not one question was asked. People just seemed to assume the posters knew what they were talking about and jumped right on the bandwagon! I was FLOORED!

Don't get me wrong..I am in no way saying *I* have the answers and they don't. What I am saying is why aren't people questioning these low-carb experts? Why are they assuming because someone posts a pick..it's a true pick or their real stats..( and again..I'm not talking about a specific person...but all postings) it seems like the past ( which isn't even really the past yet) could so easily be re-lived and I'm just amazed.

Heres a few things to ponder..if thinking of taking advice from someone.

1. would you eat the way they suggest around family and friends? If yes, could you explain why your eating that way?
2. what kind of results are reasonable and realistic? What are they saying the results are likely to be? do they coencide?
3. would you tell your doctor your eating this way? If no, why not?


I know I sound very negative, but really I'm concerned. I've seen too many people not take the time to read or educate themselves about what they are doing. This "jump on the bandwagon" mentality, has had some dire consequences for many people on this board and in the diet world in general ( anyone else rememeber phen-fen??)

I hope people get that my heart is in the right place... I would absolutly never want another person to jeoperdise their health by going to extremes.

I truly believe the saying,

"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!"

PLEASE, question authority, especially where your health is concerned. You don't get a second body

Ok..so now that I have vented (LOL) let er' FLY!!!!!!!

[lisabinil]

Great post!

[HezzieLee]

Unfortunately, lots of people are searching....and because they are searching they will latch on to anything that sounds promising. You are right- we need to research and question and "try before we buy".

[MaddieJ]

I've gotten caught up in extreme stuff before and well it just doesn't stick. Plus it can be dangerous. I agree it's important to be educated and not just jump on bandwagons.

[Teresa123]

I whole heartedly agree. But I think until people realize that the solution is a lifestyle change, and not a quick fix, it will continue. I totally understand desperation and quick fixes--they got me to over 300lbs. Changing my lifestyle and my outlook will get me to goal and help me STAY there---which is much more important to me now than getting there, if that makes sense.

[sugarless4life]

I totally agree. I get very concerned when I see so many people jumping on the "egg fast" or "meat fast" plan ... er, I can't see that as a healthy way to go. I understand the concept that people are impatient and want to be thin RIGHT NOW .. but folks, it doesn't work that way. There is no healthy shortcut to success. Hard work, discipline and dedication to your WOE is what will get you there. And even harder work, more discipline and life-long dedication will keep you there.

GREAT POST !

Betty

[jzgeorge]

Hey! I remember Kimmer. I've been gone from this board for years. To be honest, there were a lot of know-it-all weirdos in the mix back then. Where do you see posts from the old days?

[metqa]

Anytime I mention something from this board my BF gets this look like "you're not serious are you, Isn't that dangerous?" And from his point of view most of what folks are doing here is extreme. Downing Tablespoons of coconut oil; swallowing gobs of supplement X, not eating bread or potatoes, which are staples in a Normal diet. Even Callanetics has been branded as "That's bad for your knees all that bending, that's bad for your back all that stretching" And he's not a stupid man by the least!

I like to try new things, and I usually do at least a little research into it before I try, but for me, even when I have a true "authority" BF questions that authority. While I love him for his BullSh*t meter, it seems to go off alot when it comes to issues of what I'm eating or how I'm exercising and it gets tiresome.

For me I would love to have someone just tell me what to do and not have to think about it Just tell me what's good what's bad and that's that. I actually envy people to ignorance to live like that. And I don't mean ignorance in a bad way, but truly, the more I learn, the harder it is to just accept what someone says as true. there's always some sneaky plan behind it.

Heres a few things to ponder..if thinking of taking advice from someone.

1. would you eat the way they suggest around family and friends? If yes, could you explain why your eating that way?
2. what kind of results are reasonable and realistic? What are they saying the results are likely to be? do they coincide?
3. would you tell your doctor your eating this way? If no, why not?

Also unfortunately, if you tried these three questions with Atkins Low Carb Diet, It would fail all three, cause unless you are talking to someone who already knows, or is totally open minded, then Everybody knows what 'everybody knows" and you are wrong no matter what.

1. Hi mom, no macaroni for me. Oh no thanks no cornbread either. Yess I'm going to have a second helping of turkey, yes I'm going to eat all of it. For the third time I don't want any cookies. Why? I read a book by Dr. A, and before I read that I found it in a human physiology book. What!? I'm crazy???? What!? I'm wrong?? Of course you know better than a bunch of physicians.(who often don't know better still)
2. You can lose fat by eating mostly fat and calories in excess of 2000 each day? What!? you can lose 2-10 pounds in the first week by doing that. BOGUS! What!? you can lower your cholesterol by eating cholesteral rich foods? BAKA!
3. What did you say you are eating? Don't you know you will ruin your health by eating that way? I refuse to be your doctor if you keep up this lifestyle. Your blood work is good, but It's only a matter of time before it backlashes on you.

Even though I know what is good for me, I do have to avoid lunch dates with BF, and I do have to hide it from my family, or not mention it, and I do "lie" to the Physician that I eat a "balanced" diet.

And when I try something new, I do keep it a secret, cause I don't want the negativity of closed minded, or even good-hearted people who don't understand my goals. Meanwhile I research for myself and if it works more power to me.

I can't imagine being so confident that I'd suggest someone try something without some information to back it up. At that point, I believe it is just anecdotal tales of someones experiences to be take with a grain of sea salt.

Sorry so long, I just really agreed with OP, but had some contrasting feelings about why someone might up and follow someones suggestions without bothering to check it out. Maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's just their so fed up or tired of having to verify every teeny detail.

I suppose, some people just want to be lead.

[LoraJR72]

[COLOR=SeaGreen]Even though I know what is good for me, I do have to avoid lunch dates with BF, and I do have to hide it from my family, or not mention it, and I do "lie" to the Physician that I eat a "balanced" diet.

And when I try something new, I do keep it a secret, cause I don't want the negativity of closed minded, or even good-hearted people who don't understand my goals. Meanwhile I research for myself and if it works more power to me.

I can't imagine being so confident that I'd suggest someone try something without some information to back it up. At that point, I believe it is just anecdotal tales of someones experiences to be take with a grain of sea salt.

Sorry so long, I just really agreed with OP, but had some contrasting feelings about why someone might up and follow someones suggestions without bothering to check it out. Maybe it's laziness, maybe it's just their so fed up or tired of having to verify every teeny detail. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=SeaGreen] I suppose, some people just want to be lead.

[COLOR=Black]Wow! This is exactly how I feel sometimes! Its almost like taking a shopping list to the store and saying to yourself, "I'm sticking to the list", over and over again. Sometimes the less I think about food the better I stick to plan.

<----Look at my WOE. I'm still researching at this point while combating my eating disorder at the same time. I'll be glad when my vacation is over!
10 days and counting until I leave to AZ! Let the drama begin!


[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[FloridaShell]

Very good post!

[Jean@125]

Originally Posted by metqa

Anytime I mention something from this board my BF gets this look like "you're not serious are you, Isn't that dangerous?" And from his point of view most of what folks are doing here is extreme. Downing Tablespoons of coconut oil; swallowing gobs of supplement X, not eating bread or potatoes, which are staples in a Normal diet. Even Callanetics has been branded as "That's bad for your knees all that bending, that's bad for your back all that stretching" And he's not a stupid man by the least!

I like to try new things, and I usually do at least a little research into it before I try, but for me, even when I have a true "authority" BF questions that authority. While I love him for his BullSh*t meter, it seems to go off alot when it comes to issues of what I'm eating or how I'm exercising and it gets tiresome.

For me I would love to have someone just tell me what to do and not have to think about it Just tell me what's good what's bad and that's that. I actually envy people to ignorance to live like that. And I don't mean ignorance in a bad way, but truly, the more I learn, the harder it is to just accept what someone says as true. there's always some sneaky plan behind it.



Also unfortunately, if you tried these three questions with Atkins Low Carb Diet, It would fail all three, cause unless you are talking to someone who already knows, or is totally open minded, then Everybody knows what 'everybody knows" and you are wrong no matter what.

1. Hi mom, no macaroni for me. Oh no thanks no cornbread either. Yess I'm going to have a second helping of turkey, yes I'm going to eat all of it. For the third time I don't want any cookies. Why? I read a book by Dr. A, and before I read that I found it in a human physiology book. What!? I'm crazy???? What!? I'm wrong?? Of course you know better than a bunch of physicians.(who often don't know better still)
2. You can lose fat by eating mostly fat and calories in excess of 2000 each day? What!? you can lose 2-10 pounds in the first week by doing that. BOGUS! What!? you can lower your cholesterol by eating cholesteral rich foods? BAKA!
3. What did you say you are eating? Don't you know you will ruin your health by eating that way? I refuse to be your doctor if you keep up this lifestyle. Your blood work is good, but It's only a matter of time before it backlashes on you.

Even though I know what is good for me, I do have to avoid lunch dates with BF, and I do have to hide it from my family, or not mention it, and I do "lie" to the Physician that I eat a "balanced" diet.

And when I try something new, I do keep it a secret, cause I don't want the negativity of closed minded, or even good-hearted people who don't understand my goals. Meanwhile I research for myself and if it works more power to me.

I can't imagine being so confident that I'd suggest someone try something without some information to back it up. At that point, I believe it is just anecdotal tales of someones experiences to be take with a grain of sea salt.

Sorry so long, I just really agreed with OP, but had some contrasting feelings about why someone might up and follow someones suggestions without bothering to check it out. Maybe it's lazyness, maybe it's just their so fed up or tired of having to verify every teeny detail.

I suppose, some people just want to be lead.

Oh my! I could have practically written the same post word for word. I can really relate to the DH thing. Everything I say and think I am convinced of he can argue or cause me to reconsider! I still get confused by something I remember Dr Atkins saying about Dr. Ornish's plan. Something to the effect that yes Ornish's plan was healthy but few people could do it long term.
So how can low fat and high fat both be healthy? Of course not trans fat but other fats. Jeanie

[fawn]

Great post Lisa. Extremes are definitely dangerous.

But, with this I would like to address Metga's post. 3 tbs. of coconut oil Metga is in fact a healthy addition.....I'm not sure if you were just using that as an example of what DH says but I just want to clarify this and avoid any confusion as this is the absolute healthiest fat we can consume. 3 tbs. is not extreme.

I think it best that we not use particular examples to avoid confusion especially for newbies. One person's idea of balanced could be another person's poison. KWIM? ie: bread is not part of my normal diet. I don't eat refined foods or white potatoes and for me, this is healthy.

[whatjelly]

Yeah... Sometimes other people just don't get "it". So I try not to mention "Atkins" or "high protein" or "low-carb".

That was a great post! I can totally relate.

We must always remember: there is NO quick fix. It is definately a lifestyle change and not a "diet".

Slow and steady wins the race.

[rsrmjs]

Metqa, This is what I tell my drs about my low carb diet, I avoid refined starches, eat plenty of vegatables, good quality protein and good fats.

[Sybilizedliving]

yeah, I'm with you rsrmjs......if I just say I don't eat processed food and focus on plenty of veg, protein and healthy fats people don't react. If I mention Atkins or low-carb - I get all kinds of grief.

My next challenge is to become comfortable enough to say that I don't eat sugar products (especially when we have dinners at peoples homes and they have decadent deserts). My reason - which is valid - is that my last two blood glucose lab values were slightly elevated and I do not want to feed potential diabetes problems in my future so I CHOOSE not to eat sugary products. Now if I can just become confident enough to give that answer and be done with it!

[metqa]

Originally Posted by fawn

I think it best that we not use particular examples to avoid confusion especially for newbies. One person's idea of balanced could be another person's poison.

Don't be confusing? Hmm. To NOT use an example of something because it might be "confusing" and it might cause people to have to THINK, and they might check it out for themselves seems an awful lot like censorship for their own good. How is that questioning authority? Forget authority, Question Everything!

Seriously, that is what this post is all about isn't it? Why should I believe you when you say coconut oil is the best oil( Which is it ), when my whole life, everybody says avoid it, including doctors and loved ones. That is a situation that a newbies is going to encounter. Maybe they'll go read those links you posted that explain why exactly it is good so that they won't be confused anymore. Or maybe they should just blindly follow your advice, because to here different information may be confusing, hmm? Whose making the decision then, they? or you for them?

Semantics. Nobody posting here is giving advice, as far as I can tell. The idea is that people should verify the advice before choosing to follow it. So it doesn't matter how many examples I use, If someone wants to be a sheep and blindly follow, there are hundreds of posts here at LCFs where they can get information that could kill them . . . that's what the OP is trying to avoid by posting this in the first place.

Knowledge, not censorship, is the address these problems. A friend has a printed shirt, with a young girl's face on it, the text says, "just one more and you'll be safe". The girl has bandaids over her ears to protect her from bad sounds, bandaids over her eyes so she can't see bad things, bandaids over her nose so she won't smell bad things, and the last one is about to be placed over her mouth. . .

[COLOR=Black]

Originally Posted by LoraJR72

Wow! This is exactly how I feel sometimes! Its almost like taking a shopping list to the store and saying to yourself, "I'm sticking to the list", over and over again. Sometimes the less I think about food the better I stick to plan.

<----Look at my WOE. I'm still researching at this point while combating my eating disorder at the same time. I'll be glad when my vacation is over!
10 days and counting until I leave to AZ! Let the drama begin!

[/COLOR]

Y'know, one of the easier stress free times of my life was when I had my own personalized shopping list, and I just when into the store, bought what was on the list, in said quantities, and left, no browsing, no thinking, no worrying, in and out. My budget was easier to calculate, I didn't have spoiled veggies, I was happy. Today it took forever to shop and I still forgot the beef broth, cause I had to think and remember what to get and why, and what was better and why I shouldn't get such and such. It gets tiresome to always be on guard.

Originally Posted by rsrmjs

Metqa, This is what I tell my drs about my low carb diet, I avoid refined starches, eat plenty of vegatables, good quality protein and good fats.

Totally agree. I don't mention the cheese crust pizza or the Oopsie rolls

[suzanneyea]

I usually tell people I am allergic to wheat, which I kinda am. If I mention Atkins, I get all the comments about how I am going to die. That is such a pleasant thing to tell someone over supper, very thoughtful. If Atkins does come up and the attacks start, I just offer them my copy of the book and tell them I will only discuss it when they read the book. No one has taken up my offer.

[Rory8343]

Good post!
I find myself posting less and less in the main lobby because I have been accused of being negative for giving conservative advice or trying reign in peoples unrealistic expectations. It gets exhausting when people have not done any research, haven't picked a plan, or read any of the books for themselves. Personally I'm at a loss.

[TaDa!]

Fabulous Post Lisa Rae!!!!!!!!

And I have to say I just shake my head over the fads, good for you, not so good for you ... fact is, none of these things, not a single one I can think of, have stayed the course over the five years I have been on this site. Fact is, good hard work means success for the longterm and nothing else.

My wol? Protein and vegetables, very little starchy carbs. My doctor just two weeks ago got very upset when I mentioned the doubts entering my head after reading Walter Willett's book (the new food pyramid - he is from the Harvard University Dept of Public Health) with respect to BMI, and my doctor told me, that he, personally, believes the approach of the ancient Greeks "Moderation in All Things."

I agree, those who seek fad diets will only find fad diets. It makes me sad to see it too, but I feel I only have so much strength to post on some of these silly threads. I used to take on Kimmer too and it was exhausting. Thanks so much for this post Lisa Rae.



Pauline

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by Rory8343

Good post!
I find myself posting less and less in the main lobby because I have been accused of being negative for giving conservative advice or trying reign in peoples unrealistic expectations. It gets exhausting when people have not done any research, haven't picked a plan, or read any of the books for themselves. Personally I'm at a loss.

I agree totally Rory-its a really exhausting trend here lately.

[wifezilla]

I just grab a copy of "Good Calories Bad Calories" and beat sense in to people. Oh, wait, that was just a really cool dream I had the other night.

[dawnyama]

I agree that everyone needs to do their own research. When I first started lowcarbing 9 years ago I read Dr. Atkins book. I then branched out and read other books. I find it fascinating to read others' works that support what I am doing. It just helps solidify what I am doing. I then joined some forums for support and just read and read, sometimes til 2 AM LOL. Mostly staying online for recipes and tips. That helped immensely. I have about 4 binders full of recipes for great low carb food. When I started on the coconut oil bandwagon I researched fully coconut oil first. I only share what I have experienced and/or researched. I encourage people to research on their own what I share because it makes it easier to follow if you feel comfortable doing it. You will then know why and how it works--it should help all those questions. I also have turned my pediatrician on to a few things. I asked him what he thought of naturals vs drugs and that I wanted my 12 yr old to use oil of oregnao for allergies and warts. He said that he had a friend who was "into that" that he would ask. I was surprised that he was willing to work with me but until you try you won't know what your doc will say. I had researched it and was willing to give him the websites that I researched if he was going to poo-poo the idea. When I give my opinion on this board I try to preface with--this is what I think, not so much this is what you need to do. I truly agree that everyone should research on their own (on the net and for their body to find tolerances). Great post!!

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by wifezilla

I just grab a copy of "Good Calories Bad Calories" and beat sense in to people. Oh, wait, that was just a really cool dream I had the other night.

Too funny Wife!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by wifezilla

I just grab a copy of "Good Calories Bad Calories" and beat sense in to people. Oh, wait, that was just a really cool dream I had the other night.

[Lisa Rae]

Wow...Thanks to all who responded! I obviously underestimated my fellow low-carbers in thinking they wouldn't "get me"

I totally understand what some of you are saying about not telling people about low-carb. What changed for me was this. I was walking home from my job when this stranger looks at me and said " Lisa Rae?" I assuned it must have been someone from my childhood..as I never use that name in real life now. It ended-up being a woman from the board who had been reading my posts. She had been curious about low-carb..but afraid to try it. She realized that someone from right in her town was doing it and being successful...and that got her to try it herself. It's still one of my proudest low-carb moments.

In that, I realized that if we don't stand tall and say " hey, I'm a low-carber" we will never make it easier for the next group of us. That includes being straight with our Doctors ( and yeah, my first one poo-pooed the whole " low-carb fad" and that's why I ended-up with a new..totally suportive Doctor) people in resturants( I'm paying, so if I don't want to look at the fries, I shouldn't have too!)...or frankly anyone who sees me from before and is shocked. I see it as paying homage to Dr. Atkins..to show others there are choices to getting healthy besides low-fat. ( not that theres anything wrong with that)

Anyway...again I go off on my long-windedness!

I'm also not saying that adding things like coconut oil..or whatever it may be to your Woe is bad. What I'm saying is..when you see a post like " coconut oil made me lose 10 lbs in a week" don't run out and buy coconut oil. Heck..we have the internet kids..there is info about almost eveything out there if you look.


Last but never least..I TOTALLY get why people latch on to "lose it yesterday" ideas. I had been misrable regarding my weight for all my life beofore low-carb. I had tried almost every diet you can name ( and yes, even a few I wouldn't feed to my dog!) I do believe we have to find our way. I just don't want that way to permenently do damage to anyone. I'd rather be fat and healthy..then thin and sick. Sometimes it is just that simple....trust me..I'm living that reality right now!

So again THANKS! and go have a steak for goodness sakes!

[hippiegirl]

Good discussion - great topic! I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said.

[pooticus]

Lisa Rae you da girl!

Great post.

[Califrog]

Lisa Rae, you have hit a buncha nails right on the head.

And as others have said, really the difference is in each of us and how we think about our way of eating - forever, or just until that cruise? forever, or just until the wedding? forever, or until holiday season?

I am in a weight loss competition at the moment. The prize is $500, no small potatoes (no pun intended ) to me. Some in the competition are using whatever quick fix they can grab onto to push their weight down as fast as they can.

Me, I'm using it as the first step toward a lifetime journey of health and fitness.

Even if I lose, I win.

[homestretch]

You know what I say to people who give me the "you do Atkins" eye roll question. Yep I eat mostly grilled or baked meat and veggies with a few berries thrown in....the way most people should be eating! Usually shuts them right up.

[MaddieJ]

Great attitude Califrog!