Why we should avoid the oh-so-healthy SOY!

[SummerSue]

Metga:

TW, the reason Chinese and Japanese people can eat so much soy is that they eat it with meat and fish. It's when people use it as a meat substitute exclusively that it's causes deficiencies so readily. Brans from the hulls of grains are also high in phytates.

Does this mean that kids also shouldn't ingest whole grains? Does it have the same effect?

[Atarii]

Soy makes me feel awful when i have it. Especially Soy Milk.

Way worse then what cows milk does to my insides.

Horrible!

[MountainGirl]

Originally Posted by SummerSue

Metga:
Does this mean that kids also shouldn't ingest whole grains? Does it have the same effect?

No.
And in rebuttal to some quoted sources, phytates are not evil.
Also, cooking inactivates most of grain's phytates and soaking the grain prior to cooking does the rest. Whole grains are good for most kids, unless allergic.

[Kris T.]

I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest. I was whining to a GF that I wasn't losing weight, even on induction. She told me to try to stop soy. She's euthyroid, but previously had been diagnosed as being hypo-th. I was starting to exhibit the classic symptoms too.

I had been having 8 oz of soymilk 2-3 x a week, and about a block of tofu per week.

Well, it's been a week with no tofu or soymilk, and I've dropped 1 lb. I have changed nothing else in my diet.

We shall see...

[hummingbird11]

wow, thanks Allie. I needed this info. was just discussing this w/ a friend. thanks!

I have to admit, I miss soy milk. it did wonders for my migraines!
but since I don't eat cereal anymore anyway, it's not so bad...


edited to add:

OMG Kris! I was just about to forward this link to you and there you are right above me!

hehehe! small (virtual) world, eh?

[MarblesLongGone]

Originally Posted by ew1

Do you know how hard it is to find plain water canned tuna without soy? WTH do I need soy in tuna fish????

The only soy I get is once in a while in a protein bar if I need a snack and can't find a whey bar or soy sauce on Chinese food (and, according to NonstickPam, that is not going to affect me too much).I don't go out of my way to eat it a lot.
I'm on thyroid replacement and do WAY better without it.

Polar brand tuna has NO SOY! And it is better tuna, and the price is reasonable. It is in the normal tuna price range, and it is CHUNKS, not strings in water!

[MarblesLongGone]

Originally Posted by jacksmixedtape

I wonder if a little lecithin as an emulsifier in a few products will have enough cumulative impact to adversely effect health? It IS in everything, even organic stuff. They sell lecithin by the bag as a health food!

Soy allergic relative is allowed to have lecithin, and has no reactions to it. It may not be true for everyone.

[metqa]

Originally Posted by SummerSue

Metga:
Does this mean that kids also shouldn't ingest whole grains? Does it have the same effect?

Originally Posted by MountainGirl

No.
And in rebuttal to some quoted sources, phytates are not evil.
Also, cooking inactivates most of grain's phytates and soaking the grain prior to cooking does the rest. Whole grains are good for most kids, unless allergic.

Yeah, like MG said. Phytates are not the devil, it's just that phytates in high quantities can bind certain nutrients and cause deficiencies if the sole source of nutrition. but But we don't eat a lot of grain hulls and cooking fixes most of that. Soy is much higher in phytates, and many of the harmful bits aren't denatured by heat but by fermentation, but you wouldn't notice it if you were eating other foods with a variety of nutrients to counter balance the negative.

Whole grain is great. It's just like any one food will have pluses and minuses. Grains and soy minuses are phytates and allergens, it's plusses are slow carbs , fiber and vitamins. Quionoa and Millet for example are great grains, higher in protein, and fiber, lower glycemic than polished rice and wheat. they would be good to add to the diet if not allergic or sensitive.

On the flip side eating a ton of bran as fiber could be at issue. I've heard that soaking nuts has the same benefit of breaking down some of the "anti enzymes" (not official word, I just can't think of it right now )

[metqa]

Originally Posted by MarblesLongGone

Polar brand tuna has NO SOY! And it is better tuna, and the price is reasonable. It is in the normal tuna price range, and it is CHUNKS, not strings in water!

Oooh,Thanks for the tip! I'm tired of stringy tuna! I've quit making stuff with it. I like canned mackeral and salmon better than canned tuna. I prefer my tuna RAW!

[MarblesLongGone]

Polar is HARDER to find. Many stores stock their Asian veggies and their fruits, but the Tuna is harder to find, but OHHH, so worth it!

[metqa]

I know a place that used to sell it . . .My old store. It shut down last month. DRAT.

[skg]

I am going to call my dr. tomorrow and ask for a new thyroid test, I have been on synthroid for 20+ years. My one gland has been swollen and I was on 2 different antibiotics because they thought it was an infection somewhere in my body that just settled there. It has been a month since I was off the last one and it is still swollen so I want to have him check my thyroid again, I have been eating soy crisps etc. so in my head wondering if soy is my problem as I have been really tired as well (that is one of my signs I notice when my meds need changed). Should it be the problem what the heck can I eat since soy is in everything? I just bought some protein powder and it is even in that - this is getting frustrating. How can you tell if something is the one that is ok (fermented?) does it say it is that kind?

[hummingbird11]

I printed this and just re-read the whole thread. I just wanted to say THANKS ALLIE, as this is the best and most comprehensive explanation I've ever read on soy.

I was a vegetarian for 15 years and consumed a LOT of soy and was very dismayed later to learn of the "dangers of soy" (that I never really fully understood.)

I admit, I never researched it; and kind of refused to absorb/digest what I came across; I think I was in denial that something I'd built the very foundation of my diet around, for so long, could now be "bad" for my health.

This Thread finally did it for me. I stopped my consumption of tofu and soy milk back in March when I began Atkins, but I've been missing it greatly. Not I am armed w/ powerful knowledge and I don't miss it anymore.

Thank you for posting & sharing.

[BufoDieter]

Soy was my next area to being educating myself on, so I've finally gotten around to reading this thread. Thanks for everyone posting what they know. I have a great jumping-off point now.

I am concerned because my little niece (age 17 months) is being given soy milk because she has a milk allergy. I want to collect as much scientific data I can so that I can pass it on to my brother and SIL. So I went to Barry Groves' site and searched for the original article that Allie posted. Found it, but what I find ironic is the big, google ads sidebar on the left advertising all sorts of soy products! I know Dr. Groves doesn't have control over what google pulls up in the ads for that page, but it is doing his article a disservice.

[Mom2Mayhem]

Soy also mimics estrogen which causes weight gain -- making it harder to lose weight. I buy mayo made with canola oil too from Trader Joes because pretty much ALL mayo brands out there are made with soybean oil.

Edited to add: Doing a search on the internet for "Soy" and "Estrogen" will find you MANY sites full of info. The stuff about men and estrogens is very interesting. For instance, hops that are in beer are very highly estrogenic. That beer gut men get along with their "man boobs" is just the estrogen in the hops enhancing their "feminine qualities".

[Mom2Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Josuanna

Hey, but LECITHIN doesn't contain any isoflavones whatsoever, it's fatty and therefore not harmful, same for soy oil

Best regards

Josuanna

Soy Lecithin is ok.

Is Soy Lecithin ok?

I have the book, "The Anti-Estrogenic Diet", and it is VERY enlightening and hard to get because they sell out so fast.

[Mom2Mayhem]

Originally Posted by MountainGirl

You don't need to feel so badly. The soy is probably NOT the culprit of early puberty. Studies show that growth hormones in meat, eggs and dairy are the most common factor, not soy.

That's why it's important to buy only organic meat, dairy and eggs, ones with no hormones.

I agree. If you buy regular, store bought milk, eggs, cheese, etc, you are most likely getting the growth hormones frome what was given to the animal. We have a loca dairy that does not give their cows hormones. They have the best milk, cheese, ice cream (for the kids of course), and butter.

[Dee1904]

So is soybean oil harmful or not? There seems to be conflicting opinion on this.

[thinker]

Oddly enough - before signing on and reading this - today was the day that I gave up soy. I went into the fridge and threw out all the meat substitute stuff I'd been eating. I read a series of articles and had a conversation w/an endocrinologist friend. Convinced that there are genuine hormonal effects - and not great ones if you are a guy like me - then I jsut dumped it all. if I pick some up in a can of tuna or some such - I'll risk it. But I got rid of the burgers, milk, fake cheese and etc.

[rainbowlaserdragon]

I got this from Dr. Weil's website

I wonder why the opinions are so different....

Rethinking Soy?
Your last articles about soy were written almost two years ago. Since that time, there appears to be more evidence that soy should be avoided with the exception of properly fermented products, like miso and tempeh. Have you changed your opinion?

Answer (Published 3/12/2004)

I'm aware of Internet paranoia on the subject of soy and the contention that only fermented soy is safe to consume. That is simply not true. Some of the best forms of soy - edamame, tofu and soy nuts - are unfermented and are much more likely to help you than hurt you.

Claims that unfermented soy foods (such as tofu and soy milk) contain toxins that block the action of enzymes needed to digest protein, and that these toxins cause pancreatic enlargement, cancer and stunted growth in animals are misleading. While soy does contain substances (trypsin inhibitors) that may adversely affect the pancreas in animals, there's no solid evidence that they cause similar problems in humans. Furthermore, trypsin inhibitors are found in all of the vegetables of the cabbage family as well as in beans other than soy.

Other concerns about soy safety focus on the following issues:

* Breast cancer: Here, the idea is that high levels of isoflavones, active ingredients in soy that behave like estrogen in the body, may increase the risk of breast cancer. While high levels of isolated isoflavones may do so, it appears that the total mix of weak plant estrogens in soy protects the body's estrogen receptors. This protection may reduce the effects of excess estrogen exposure from such external sources as meats and dairy products from hormone-treated cows as well as artificial chemicals and industrial pollutants that act as foreign estrogens. Japanese women whose diets contain a lot of soy foods have only one-fifth the rate of breast cancer that occurs among Western women.
* Thyroid Problems: Excess consumption of soy can affect thyroid function, but only if you have a thyroid disorder to begin with or if you're not getting enough iodine in your diet (a rare deficiency in the United States). If you take medication for hypothyroidism (low thyroid), and are concerned about the effect of eating two daily servings of soy, have your thyroid levels checked regularly.
* Mineral absorption: The idea that substances in soy called phytates block absorption of essential minerals is also in circulation, but there is no scientific data suggesting that soy consumption leads to mineral deficiency in humans.

All told, based on the evidence to date, I see no reason to worry about eating soy foods, whether fermented or not. I still recommend consuming one to two servings of soy per day, an amount equivalent to one cup of soy milk, or one half cup of tofu, soy protein (tempeh) or soy nuts.

Andrew Weil, M.D.

[ljh150]

Hmmm....Is Dr. Weil getting perks from the soy industry? Either that or he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

[MountainGirl]

Originally Posted by ljh150

Hmmm....Is Dr. Weil getting perks from the soy industry? Either that or he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm inclined to believe that he is simply refuting the misleading info out there on soy. And, I do believe he knows what he's talking about.

[witt2am]

Very interesting information. It is scary how much bad stuff is out there. I like Atkins because it emphasis is whole foods.