Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Main Lowcarb Lobby
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-29-2008, 09:07 PM   #1
Senior LCF Member
 
meatmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 951
Gallery: meatmama
Why the scales can lie.

For all of us ready to throw out our scales. I came across this and found it interesting.

WHY THE SCALES CAN LIE

A biologist at Berkeley shared something very revealing on the low-carb BBS system about 4 years ago that helps us all through the erratic weight fluctuations you invariably encounter: Fat cells are resilient, stubborn little creatures that do not want to give up their actual cell volume. Over a period of weeks, maybe months of "proper dieting", each of your fat cells may have actually lost a good percentage of the actual fat contained in those cells. But the fat cells themselves, stubborn little guys, replace that lost fat with water to retain their size. That is, instead of shrinking to match the reduced amount of fat in the cell, they stay the same size! Result - you weigh the same, look the same, maybe even gained some scale weight, even though you have actually lost some serious fat.

The good news is that this water replacement is temporary. It's a defensive measure to keep your body from changing too rapidly. It allows the fat cell to counter the rapid change in cell composition, allowing for a slow, gradual reduction in cell size. The problem is, most people are frustrated with their apparent lack of success, assume they have lost nothing, and stop dieting.

However, if you give those fat cells some time, like 4-6 months, and ignore the scale weight fluctuations, your real weight/shape will slowly begin to show. The moral of the story - be patient! Your body is changing even if the number on the scale isn't.

PATTERNS OF WEIGHT LOSS

Common patterns of weight loss from tracking a lot of people who become assimilated into the low carb lifestyle, a pattern emerges.... the 2 week induction is pretty heady...weight lost just about every single day, enormous and unbelievable amounts of weight loss are reported. This is often followed by complaints that weight loss "stalls" or that the rate drops to only 1 pound per week.

Many people just don't know that fat-loss ...the actual goal when on a weight-reduction" diet, is rate-limited. In other words, the human body has factors that prevent more than a certain amount of fatty-acid release from storage...and even more factors that prevent those released fatty acids from being used up instead of stored back into the fat cells.

A priority of the human body is survival. Anything that threatens its survival results in the cascade of events to maintain the previous status quo. Water fluctuations are one way the body does this. OK...so you done good on Atkins' during induction...lost 10 pounds the first 2 weeks. Maybe 7 the first week and 3 the second. But, whoa! Weeks 3 and 4 there is NO loss! And weeks 5 and 6 is only 1/2 pound each!

So... what gives? Initially, the body jettisons the water attached to the glycogen stores that we diligently deplete to get into ketosis...this accounts for about 3-5 pounds of water. In addition, muscle stores of glycogen are not being replaced when used...which will account for the rest. All in all...MAYBE 1/2 pound of fat was metabolized during the first week... and MAYBE 1/2 pound of fat was metabolized the 2nd week. Of that 10 initial pounds, only 1 pound was fat and 9 pounds water...

The body senses this lack and sirens start shrieking: Warning! Warning! Losing water... new thing...got to get back to the status quo! Brain tells body to produce and release that vasopressin anti-diuretic hormone....more water is retained, and no weight loss noticed. Fat loss is still occurring, MAYBE even 2 pounds per week, because ketosis is firmly established and appetite suppression is in effect...but water retention is hiding that continuing fat loss. The body is preventing dehydration with this mechanism, and that's a *good* thing.

From the perspective of the scale, it can be discouraging. Which is why the mantra: Water retention masks fat loss (repeated frequently to oneself) is helpful. Water retention will mask ongoing fat-loss for as long as the body retains the water. We can combat this by drinking more water...but we aren't going to totally overcome this mechanism during the initial water-loss phase of the Atkins diet. By weeks 5 and 6, things start to get back in balance, and the scale will begin to reflect the true fat-loss...which, as mentioned before is rate-limited.

Individuals vary, but max weight loss runs about 2 pounds per week...under extremely optimal conditions... or 1% of body weight (whichever is the lower number). So don't use the scale as an excuse to undermine your progress. Even when the scale is in a stall, fat loss can be occurring.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We've been told over an over again that daily weighing is unnecessary, yet many of us can't resist peeking at that number every morning. If you just can't bring yourself to toss the scale in the trash, you should definitely familiarize yourself with the factors that influence it's readings. From water retention to glycogen storage and changes in lean body mass, daily weight fluctuations are normal. They are not indicators of your success or failure. Once you understand how these mechanisms work, you can free yourself from the daily battle with the bathroom scale.

Water makes up about 60% of total body mass. Normal fluctuations in the body's water content can send scale-watchers into a tailspin if they don't understand what's happening. Two factors influencing water retention are water consumption and salt intake. Strange as it sounds, the less water you drink, the more of it your body retains. If you are even slightly dehydrated your body will hang onto it's water supplies with a vengeance, possibly causing the number on the scale to inch upward. The solution is to drink plenty of water.

Excess salt (sodium) can also play a big role in water retention. A single teaspoon of salt contains over 2,000 mg of sodium. Generally, we should only eat between 1,000 and 3,000 mg of sodium a day, so it's easy to go overboard. Sodium is a sneaky substance. You would expect it to be most highly concentrated in salty chips, nuts, and crackers. However, a food doesn't have to taste salty to be loaded with sodium. A half cup of instant pudding actually contains nearly four times as much sodium as an ounce of salted nuts, 460 mg in the pudding versus 123 mg in the nuts.

The more highly processed a food is, the more likely it is to have a high sodium content. That's why, when it comes to eating, it's wise to stick mainly to the basics: fruits, vegetables, lean meat, beans, and whole grains. Be sure to read the labels on canned foods, boxed mixes, and frozen dinners.

Women may also retain several pounds of water prior to menstruation. This is very common and the weight will likely disappear as quickly as it arrives. Pre-menstrual water-weight gain can be minimized by drinking plenty of water, maintaining an exercise program, and keeping high-sodium processed foods to a minimum.

Another factor that can influence the scale is glycogen. Think of glycogen as a fuel tank full of stored carbohydrate. Some glycogen is stored in the liver and some is stored the muscles themselves. This energy reserve weighs more than a pound and it's packaged with 3-4 pounds of water when it's stored. Your glycogen supply will shrink during the day if you fail to take in enough carbohydrates.

As the glycogen supply shrinks you will experience a small imperceptible increase in appetite and your body will restore this fuel reserve along with it's associated water. It's normal to experience glycogen and water weight shifts of up to 2 pounds per day even with no changes in your calorie intake or activity level. These fluctuations have nothing to do with fat loss, although they can make for some unnecessarily dramatic weigh-ins if you're prone to obsessing over the number on the scale.

Otherwise rational people also tend to forget about the actual weight of the food they eat. For this reason, it's wise to weigh yourself first thing in the morning before you've had anything to eat or drink. Swallowing a bunch of food before you step on the scale is no different than putting a bunch of rocks in your pocket. The 5 pounds that you gain right after a huge dinner is not fat. It's the actual weight of everything you've had to eat and drink. The added weight of the meal will be gone several hours later when you've finished digesting it.

Exercise physiologists tell us that in order to store one pound of fat, you need to eat 3,500 calories more than your body is able to burn. In other words, to actually store the above dinner as 5 pounds of fat, it would have to contain a whopping 17,500 calories. This is not likely, in fact it's not humanly possible. So when the scale goes up 3 or 4 pounds overnight, rest easy, it's likely to be water, glycogen, and the weight of your dinner. Keep in mind that the 3,500 calorie rule works in reverse also. In order to lose one pound of fat you need to burn 3,500 calories more than you take in.

Generally, it's only possible to lose 1-2 pounds of fat per week. When you follow a very low calorie diet that causes your weight to drop 10 pounds in 7 days, it's physically impossible for all of that to be fat. What you're really losing is water, glycogen, and muscle.

This brings us to the scale's sneakiest attribute. It doesn't just weigh fat. It weighs muscle, bone, water, internal organs and all. When you lose "weight," that doesn't necessarily mean that you've lost fat. In fact, the scale has no way of telling you what you've lost (or gained). Losing muscle is nothing to celebrate. Muscle is a metabolically active tissue. The more muscle you have the more calories your body burns, even when you're just sitting around. That's one reason why a fit, active person is able to eat considerably more food than the dieter who is unwittingly destroying muscle tissue.

Robin Landis, author of "Body Fueling," compares fat and muscles to feathers and gold. One pound of fat is like a big fluffy, lumpy bunch of feathers, and one pound of muscle is small and valuable like a piece of gold. Obviously, you want to lose the dumpy, bulky feathers and keep the sleek beautiful gold. The problem with the scale is that it doesn't differentiate between the two. It can't tell you how much of your total body weight is lean tissue and how much is fat.

There are several other measuring techniques that can accomplish this, although they vary in convenience, accuracy, and cost. Skin-fold calipers pinch and measure fat folds at various locations on the body, hydrostatic (or underwater) weighing involves exhaling all of the air from your lungs before being lowered into a tank of water, and bioelectrical impedance measures the degree to which your body fat impedes a mild electrical current.

If the thought of being pinched, dunked, or gently zapped just doesn't appeal to you, don't worry. The best measurement tool of all turns out to be your very own eyes. How do you look? How do you feel? How do your clothes fit? Are your rings looser? Do your muscles feel firmer? These are the true measurements of success. If you are exercising and eating right, don't be discouraged by a small gain on the scale. Fluctuations are perfectly normal. Expect them to happen and take them in stride.

It's a matter of mind over scale.



Why The Scale Lies

Last edited by meatmama; 02-29-2008 at 09:09 PM..
meatmama is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 02-29-2008, 10:17 PM   #2
Senior LCF Member
 
iamblessed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 176
Gallery: iamblessed
Stats: 188/179/145
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: which time?
Thanks for this info! I was getting so frustrated with the scales, stepping on them several times a day:blush:, and for the last week I have lost and gained the same pound over and over I went in the bathroom today and found that hubby had taken the scales out and hide them, guess that will take care of that frustration, now I'll be worrying about where they could be hidden. I guess once a month weigh in at Curves will have to do
iamblessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 10:18 PM   #3
Major LCF Poster!
 
nadi namaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Framingham, ma
Posts: 1,650
Gallery: nadi namaki
Stats: 162/142/125
WOE: atkins/ induction
Start Date: Jan 08
Great info thanks.
nadi namaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 10:42 PM   #4
Guest
 
dietsprite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 878
Gallery: dietsprite
Stats: 249/139/145
WOE: scarsdale medical diet
Start Date: May 27, 2003
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
dietsprite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 07:01 AM   #5
Major LCF Poster!
 
Maeve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,567
Gallery: Maeve
Stats: 228/211/178
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: Ongoing
This IS interesting. I am starting to go crazy. I started Atkins back in October, went from 196 to 188, climbed the ladder, and then, the scale stopped moving. I thought, ok, I'm in a stall. Enough was enough and I started Induction on Monday (but fell due to a craving for nuts late at night) but have been perfect since Tuesday. I went down to 191, then, jumped back to 193 and this morning, I am 194. Since I have not cheated one iota, I have not changed my signature or profile, but I am starting to wonder. I was diagnosed with Metabolic Syndrome a year ago and have taken care of things by dieting and joining a gym (which I work out at 5 days a week, doing cardio every day and the weight circuit 3 days a week). So.....

Last edited by Maeve; 03-01-2008 at 07:01 AM.. Reason: typo
Maeve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 07:32 AM   #6
Major LCF Poster!
 
squeakie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: berlin, germany
Posts: 1,035
Gallery: squeakie
Stats: 126/112/110 (5'1")
WOE: low carb
Start Date: on and off since 2000. latest restart june 19 2011
This is a great article. I think I've seen it posted here before, but it's a great idea to continue posting it often because it is so helpful and insightful. Thanks.
squeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 08:49 AM   #7
Major LCF Poster!
 
micki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Mt Pleasant, PA USA
Posts: 2,343
Gallery: micki
Stats: 140/137/130
WOE: avoid the white stuff and walk my ass off
Start Date: Summer 2000
thank you for posting
micki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2008, 11:42 AM   #8
Senior LCF Member
 
AlmondBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 546
Gallery: AlmondBear
Stats: blubbery/roly-poly/toothpick
WOE: Modified Atkins
Start Date: January 2008
Thanks I needed that I wish the part about the weight loss should be taking place in the 5th or 6th week wasn't in there, especially when they said in the beginning it could take 4-6 months before you begin to see change.. it's been 7 weeks for me i should have seen change by now... I hope this is my case and i start to lose weight soon...
AlmondBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 01:57 PM   #9
LJB
Way too much time on my hands!
 
LJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Posts: 24,507
Gallery: LJB
Stats: Size 8 at Present
WOE: Real food.
Bump
LJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #10
Way too much time on my hands!
 
AllieCat0817's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southeastern Coastal SC
Posts: 11,949
Gallery: AllieCat0817
Stats: 213.5/142/137
WOE: Atkins Maintenance
Start Date: 5/23/03
Definitely a common topic of discussion over the years:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...s-can-lie.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ce...s-can-lie.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...cales-lie.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...s-can-lie.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...ease-read.html
AllieCat0817 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:08 AM   #11
Way too much time on my hands!
 
lisabinil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 17,974
Gallery: lisabinil
Stats: 287/Restart 206/177/160 5'6"
WOE: Healthy Carb for Optimum Health
Start Date: 2/4/10
bump
lisabinil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:21 AM   #12
Major LCF Poster!
 
poopsie2223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 1,259
Gallery: poopsie2223
Stats: 5'-8" - 209/197/145
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: Since 1998 restarted 08/08/11
That kind of would explain "wooshes", too, wouldn't it? If the fat cells replace the fat volume temporarily with water, there is going to come a time sooner or later where the body flushes out that water. And while you can't lose three pounds of fat overnight, you can easily lose three pounds of water that way. That really confirms something I've thought all along, that the fat/water interaction is complicated.

It seems like at first, you lose a huge amount of water, but that isn't "real" weight loss, it takes a while for your body to catch up with real fat loss to that big initial water loss. That is why many don't lose following that initial induction drop for weeks sometimes. Then they start to lose again.....wooosh.....stop again (while the cells are losing fat but filling up with water....until the body can't hold onto that much extra water and releases it....woosh....

That also explains why sometimes you are losing NEITHER pounds nor inches. If the fat cells are staying "plumped up" with water, so do you!
poopsie2223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 09:42 AM   #13
Major LCF Poster!
 
Victrola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,546
Gallery: Victrola
Stats: Who currently knows?
WOE: Keeping it under 20g daily
Start Date: 11/17/2009
What a great article! And it really compels me to try and do Bikram yoga DAILY, so I can sweat all that excess out!
Victrola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:22 AM   #14
Senior LCF Member
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 381
Gallery: Balance
Stats: 216/210/186
WOE: WW
Start Date: Jan 2013
What about the scales that measure BF%? Do they lie as well?
Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 10:27 AM   #15
Way too much time on my hands!
 
lisabinil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 17,974
Gallery: lisabinil
Stats: 287/Restart 206/177/160 5'6"
WOE: Healthy Carb for Optimum Health
Start Date: 2/4/10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
What about the scales that measure BF%? Do they lie as well?

You can Google this for more info but they are not considered to be totally accurate.
lisabinil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 01:10 PM   #16
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17,267
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Well written and very interesting. I have never lost weight in a 'straight line'. It is always up and down almost daily. I am not throwing out my scales though!!!!!
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 02:19 PM   #17
Major LCF Poster!
 
sassy_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central California
Posts: 1,383
Gallery: sassy_red
Stats: 230/192.2/145 - 5'8"
WOE: HCG/Simeon's Protocol
Start Date: 23 July '10 (R1P2) ~ 7 Sep '10 (R2P2)
Interesting article, very nice to know in advance of my next stage of LC eating (weeks 3-5).
sassy_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 05:02 PM   #18
Major LCF Poster!
 
mayleesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,343
Gallery: mayleesa
Stats: (5'5") 209/176.4/140lb
WOE: low carb
Start Date: 12/26/2013
as a slave to the scale, i appreciate this message....my weight loss has averaged about 5lbs a month...albeit sloooooooooow in my mind i'm encouraged by this info.....i know i KNOW this but it's so nice for validation for fluctations when i'm still in ketosis and am working out...sigh....PATIENCE is NOT something i OWN....I WANNA BE SKINNY NOW lololol
mayleesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:31 PM   #19
Do you know your CCLL?
 
2bflawless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: q
Posts: 2,856
Gallery: 2bflawless
Very true...I weigh more than I did before my DD3 was born but can wear smaller size.
2bflawless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:53 PM   #20
Major LCF Poster!
 
chiody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,631
Gallery: chiody
Stats: 245/153/165 6'0" Diabetic T2, No Meds 22 yrs.
WOE: LC/Paleo/IF (Maintenance) HbA1C 4.5 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
What about the scales that measure BF%? Do they lie as well?
Some of them has a "athlete" setting essentially lowering the results to adjust for leaner body mass and higher percentage muscle situations. So in essence, it's a guessing game, that little electrical current they send through you produces quite a relatively questionable result apparently.
chiody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:38 AM   #21
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,651
Gallery: jamistar77
Stats: 150/142/137 or 15% body fat 5'7"
WOE: Body For Life/TKD
Start Date: 09/2009
great post! thank YOu
jamistar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 05:41 AM   #22
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17,267
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Another thought is, that eventually the fat cells shrink but do they ever go away or is liposuction the only way to get rid of them?
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 06:33 AM   #23
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,651
Gallery: jamistar77
Stats: 150/142/137 or 15% body fat 5'7"
WOE: Body For Life/TKD
Start Date: 09/2009
Cathy, I heard that they never go away, like you said, But when you get your body fat% checked, how does it decrease? Good question..
jamistar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 07:18 AM   #24
Major LCF Poster!
 
sassy_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central California
Posts: 1,383
Gallery: sassy_red
Stats: 230/192.2/145 - 5'8"
WOE: HCG/Simeon's Protocol
Start Date: 23 July '10 (R1P2) ~ 7 Sep '10 (R2P2)
Man, today is one of those days when I *need* to reread this. lol Twice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Another thought is, that eventually the fat cells shrink but do they ever go away or is liposuction the only way to get rid of them?
That's a good question. I'd always been under the assumption that fat cells shrink but don't "disappear", yet multiply when they get too big. Heard that from high school all the way through college but I don't know if it's anecdotal or real. Would be nice to know that it's wrong...
sassy_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:49 AM   #25
Major LCF Poster!
 
Rosetta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,477
Gallery: Rosetta
Stats: 198/149/135
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: July, 2002
Well, it's unrealistic to expect the scale to show constant weight loss. I weight myself every day just to keep myself honest. It helps me think about what I'm eating and doing for myself. It reminds me not to be in denial. It's my accountability partner. I don't go to it every morning expecting a whoosh or a lower number. That's because I know that's not how Atkins worked for me last time, and I lost the weight. I still like it though, because without it I tend to wander into confusion about my WOE.
__________________
~Rosetta~ 5'5" and in my 50's


Reached Goal 135 lbs. (11-14-2003)

*Successfully maintained at or under my 135 goal from 2003 until 2008! After that, up & down.
Rosetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:56 AM   #26
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,651
Gallery: jamistar77
Stats: 150/142/137 or 15% body fat 5'7"
WOE: Body For Life/TKD
Start Date: 09/2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassy_red View Post
Man, today is one of those days when I *need* to reread this. lol Twice!


ME TOO!
jamistar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 09:57 AM   #27
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,651
Gallery: jamistar77
Stats: 150/142/137 or 15% body fat 5'7"
WOE: Body For Life/TKD
Start Date: 09/2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
What about the scales that measure BF%? Do they lie as well?
My scale measured the same BF% as when I got it checked by my personal trainer at the gym. It is pretty close. off by .2.
jamistar77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:08 PM   #28
207
Senior LCF Member
 
207's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 150
Gallery: 207
Stats: 307/307/207
WOE: LC/ww
Start Date: Begin 1/7/2014
What a FANTASTIC post!!! Thanks!
207 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 02:53 PM   #29
Major LCF Poster!
 
JazzleBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kissin' Armadillos
Posts: 2,786
Gallery: JazzleBug
Stats: 235.7 | 216.8 | 135 @ 5'6"
WOE: HCG/Primal Blueprint/Leptin Reset
Start Date: 4/6/12
I agree - fantastic info. Thanks for bumping this.
JazzleBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 04:42 PM   #30
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,053
Gallery: Ilpirata
THIS NEEDS TO BE A STICKY SOMEWHERE!!!
Ilpirata is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:52 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.